Anyone on the "Paddison Program Forum"?

Anyone on the "Paddison Program Forum"?

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Anyone on the "Paddison Program Forum"?

If so, would you mind sharing your thoughts/ experience? ๐Ÿค” ๐Ÿ’ญ

I ask because I'm exploring ๐Ÿ•ต joining & would appreciate your considered opinion.

Thank you kindly in advance for any thoughts you're comfortable sharing. ๐Ÿ™

[Oh, you're welcome to PM (Private Message: support.healthunlocked.com/... ) me if you're more comfortable. โ˜บ๏ธ ๐Ÿ‘ ]

Thank you kindly for your thoughtful consideration. ๐Ÿ™

Much, much appreciated. ๐Ÿ‘

.

๐Ÿ™ ๐ŸŒบ ๐Ÿ€ ๐ŸŒž

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__________________________

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Last edited by

63 Replies

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  • Hi kai__ , don't know anything about the Paddison programme but think your picture of your cat is just adorable! Regards,

  • Hi, scruffyrabbit ๐Ÿฐ! ๐Ÿ‘‹

    Don't know whose kitty ๐Ÿˆ that is, but he sure looks delectable sandwiched between leafy greens. ๐Ÿ˜‹ (Perhaps a bit crunchy if chomping down without removing the bones 1st. ๐Ÿค” )

    ๐Ÿ˜‚ ๐Ÿ˜‚ ๐Ÿ˜‚

    (Just kidding . . . just kidding . . .) He is adorable. Such a kissable face ๐Ÿฑ . Looks so content ๐Ÿ˜Œ perched upon his mound of greens:

    .

    . . . . .๐Ÿƒ

    . . . . . ๐Ÿฑ

    . . ๐Ÿƒ ๐Ÿƒ ๐Ÿƒ ๐Ÿƒ

    ๐Ÿƒ ๐Ÿƒ ๐Ÿƒ ๐Ÿƒ ๐Ÿƒ ๐Ÿƒ

    .

  • One would think you are on the Paddison Program Forum...you are always promoting the commedian Clint Paddison.....One might wonder why?...Do you work for him?......why are you now asking people about him?

  • Have you seen you've to pay to be a member Sue?! At today's rate 47 AU$ per month, that's ยฃ28.39 (47.44 of your $) or 399 AU$ per year, ยฃ241.09 (402.66 CA$), that's apparently with a 32% 'saving'! No wonder there haven't been any replies saying they're members!

  • EEk...Holy Cow!! Thant's $47.44 Canadian.....maybe there should be a support Forum for people that have been preyed on....

  • Hi kai! No, looked at itand went through my own elimination trials x 4wkly gluten, alcohol etc etc but the only result was a query on dairy as posted. Read up on a variety of programs but the only 1 that interests me is the article by Dr Monica A ??? which made a lot of sense to me. That RA - diet conference is in early May and will give feedback after it. Best 2u xx aka Grnny W [ me not u!] xx

  • Warm hello, Granny Weatherwax! ๐Ÿ˜„ (aka GranAmie)

    Hope you're doing well. ๐Ÿ™

    Yes, yes, that's the way to do it! ๐Ÿค—

    Go through your own elimination trials! Beautiful. ๐ŸŒบ

    Hope your feeling better as you go along. ๐Ÿ˜Œ

    .

    _____

    Yes, yes . . . , Dr. Monica Aggarwal:

    Cardiologist, Dr. Monica Aggarwal, Reduces Her RA Inflammation via Plant-Based Nutrition, Diet, Lifestyle: healthunlocked.com/nras/pos...

    Very impressive lady. (Worked/ taught in Malaysia a short while back, now off to Florida, USA for new projects around diet/ lifestyle, etc..)

    .

    _____

    Yes, Dr. MA's approach & PP's approach are similar โ€” both Whole Foods Plant-Based. ๐Ÿ‘

    If memory serves correctly, MA's more 'gradual' process, so is perhaps easier transitioning โ€” more readily 'doable' for folks. Yet, the 'destination' is the same/ similar over time. ๐Ÿ‘

    Oh yes, both avoid dairy: milk ๐Ÿถ , cheese ๐Ÿง€ , ice cream ๐Ÿฆ , etc. ๐Ÿฎ

    .

    _____

    Hope the process hasn't been too difficult, GranAmie. ๐Ÿ™

    Oh, don't know if this might help, if you hit a point where you're really struggling, Dr. Douglas Lisle talks about how to get through 'The Pleasure Trap': Douglas Lisle: 'The Pleasure Trap': healthunlocked.com/nras/pos...

    Think you may find the psychological/ biological aspects fascinating if you've not already heard about of it. (Put a lot into context for me & explained why old habits can be so difficult to break through.) Truly fascinating stuff! ๐Ÿค“

    .

    _____

    Oh yes, please enjoy your upcoming conference with the 'sisterhood of the travelling psyches'. ๐Ÿ˜‚

    Very much looking forward to any feedback you're kindly able to share with us after the RA - diet conference. ๐Ÿ™. (Please feel no pressure.)

    Most of all, hope you ladies enjoy yourselves. ๐Ÿค—

    Take good care, dear Granny Weatherwax/ GranAmie. ๐Ÿ™ ๐ŸŒบ ๐Ÿ€ ๐ŸŒž

    .

  • Hi Kai -good to hear from you! The elimination trials madelittle difference to my RA apart from a decrease in sinus problems etc when i left out dairy - not surprising of course. At the moment I think most of my probs are coming from the sulfa; most foods taste generally bad [ or off] so am taking more porage oats [with hot water] oatcakes and wheaten scones etc. Jut back from Spain where octopus and squid went down well but mainly salads. don't think i'll need psych support [ the 'sisterhood' of3 are all docs of psych LOL] but hope for more info / ideas. Any idea if feta [sheep milk] and mozzarello [buffalo] cheeeses wd be ok, as i do miss them! but hey ho .. take care GA/GW

  • If remembering correctly, andyswarbs talked about transitioning from cow cheese ๐Ÿ„ to cheese from other animals.

    (Thinking goat ๐Ÿ and/ or sheep ๐Ÿ cheese may have been some of the cheeses andyswarbs had mentioned, but not absolutely positive on the specifics. Don't remember about buffalo cheese.)

    Andy then went from those 'other animal' (non-cow) cheeses to eventually weaning off cheese altogether (if recalling correctly). ๐Ÿค”

    .

    ______

    Anyhoo, the other animal cheeses are a 'bridge' to get off all cheeses over time โ€” if that's your goal, of course.

    If you listen to Andy's audio, he explains his 'cheese weaning' process/ technique here: Our Beloved AndySwarbs, a Hero's Journey: healthunlocked.com/nras/pos...

    (Clever, clever fellow ๐Ÿค“ using that bridging ๐ŸŒ‰ technique to get over the 'cheese (deprivation) hump'. ๐Ÿ‘ )

    .

    ______

    Yes, yes, yes . . . getting off the dairy can definitely help minimise/ eliminate sinus congestion/ problems! ๐Ÿ‘ Delighted it's working for you, GA/GW! ๐Ÿค—

    [Laughing so hard. ๐Ÿ˜‚ ๐Ÿ˜‚ ๐Ÿ˜‚ Such a simple solution to a life-long problem/ annoyance. Funnily, now seldom have a need to use the Neti Pot after once being 'joined at the nostril' ๐Ÿ‘ƒ ! (Used it daily at one point & now seldom/ rarely needed. ๐Ÿ˜‚ ) Kicking self in derriรจre ( ๐Ÿ‘ž ๐ŸŒ™๐ŸŒ™ ) for not knowing about it (dairy elimination) much earlier in life. ๐Ÿ˜ณ Bit late in life (for me) to find out what 'normal breathing' is! ๐Ÿ™ƒ ๐Ÿ˜‚ Oh well, "better late than never". ๐Ÿ˜‚ (Grateful for every unobstructed breath too!! ๐Ÿ™ )]

    .

    ______

    Glad you'd no difficulty with octopus & squid in Spain. ๐Ÿ™ ๐Ÿ™ ๐Ÿ‘

    Always a blessed relief when having no adverse effects after ingesting something out of our typical daily routine. ๐Ÿ™

    .

    ______

    Hmmm . . . if not experiencing any improvements in RA after giving it a fair go over a fair amount of time, the only thing I can think is you may be the 1 in 20 who'll have a more difficult journey? ๐Ÿค”

    Or, maybe (if feeling up for it, with physicians approval of course) you could explore a 'cleanse phase' & re-introduction phase with your known/ established 'safe foods'? ๐Ÿค”

    (It's a long process. But, as Andy said in his explanation, it's something you really only want to do once & do it right.)

    If that doesn't help, there are other measures from what I understand.

    .

    ______

    Oh oh, I don't recall specifics about how Dr. Aggarwal does it, but she has her approach/ techniques as well. If interested, consider exploring what she has to say, particularly if you like her style/ approach. (Her info is free as well from the previous link in the previous reply.) ๐Ÿ‘

    There's lots & lots of tweaks & fiddling you can do, so please, please ๐Ÿ™ don't despair, or worry, or give up prematurely. There's abundant hope. ๐Ÿค— It's a long, long road โ€” takes a long, long time requiring patience & determination. ๐Ÿ˜Œ

    In meantime, any little improvements are a good sign. Please keep researching, keep exploring, you'll figure out what works for you over time, GA/GW. ๐Ÿ‘

    You ladies enjoy your bunbury in May! ๐Ÿ˜„ ๐Ÿ’

    Take good care, kind lady. ๐Ÿ™ ๐ŸŒบ ๐Ÿ€ ๐ŸŒž

    .

  • Nom nom... squid, lovely. We're having teeny tiny ones tomorrow for lunch (chipirones) with some Iberican ham, croquetes de presunto, mejillones tigres & delicias de Elche. It's one of our favourite mismatches! Hope you had a lovely restful hol GranAmie.

  • Aaah - yes: warm sun, cool sea - going back in ?3 weeks - cos I need the climate, and good to use my Spanish again too. Small unknown seaside Spanish town with only the occasional tourist like me. Seaviews and just dogs, joggers, kids, families , on paseo maritimo. Anyone out there know what treatments / care for RA is like in France / Spain ... costs availability etc. sooo tempted to move or have a base there to run [!] to... Enjoy your lunch 2moro, cherie.

  • Sounds lovely, just what's needed. Our experience of both GP & hospital care is excellent, not one thing to complain of in 11 years residency. I don't know about costs I'm afraid as my h worked & paid social security contributions so all treatment was free & included dependants so I was covered too. Before we left you were required to pay a percentage of med costs but it worked out cheaper than here even with a prescription pre payment certificate. Obviously with Brexit there'll be changes to the reciprocal healthcare agreement with the UK though due to the fact there are so many Brits over there both below & of retirement age some kind of arrangement will need to be agreed, the same for France & other EU countries. I would thoroughly recommend at least spending the winter months out there though if healthcare can be arranged. Whilst they do have seasons the Autumn & Winter are generally more temperate though it can get cold even so at times, especially when it rains several days in a row, & it does! Disfruta de tus prรณximas vacaciones, ยกespero que no llueve!

  • [Part 1 of 15]

    .

    Hello EmmaS-NRAS & Beverley-NRAS,

    Hope your doing well & enjoyed your Easter. ๐Ÿฃ ๐Ÿฅ ๐Ÿค ๐Ÿฐ ๐Ÿ‡

    Unfortunately, the accusations & 'whatnot' continue to rear its ugly head. ๐Ÿฒ

    Apologies for raising this 'unpleasantness', yet again. ๐Ÿ™ ๐Ÿ˜”

    (I realise this petty, adolescent 'mudslinging' should have remained in the schoolyard of childhood ๐Ÿ‘ซ , but apparently mature adults ๐Ÿ‘ต ๐Ÿ‘ด still wish to fling ๐Ÿ’ฉ well into adulthood. ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿ™ƒ ๐Ÿ˜ )

    ๐Ÿ˜‚ ๐Ÿ˜‚ ๐Ÿ˜‚

    I've learned to ignore the typical 'mischief makers' ๐Ÿ˜’nonsense (baiting, prodding, attempts to incite & engage, etc. ๐Ÿ™„ ) & those who like to 'get their digs in' . . . ๐Ÿ˜ฏ . . . Yet, this latest one seems to have 'crossed the line' into ill-will/ mean-spirited intent ๐Ÿ˜ : slander* . . . ๐Ÿ˜ฑ

    .

    _____

    .

    Here's Suzannedale's original Reply:

    "One would think you are on the Paddison Program Forum...you are always promoting the commedian Clint Paddison....One would also think you get paid for promoting it.....if you don't get paid for promotining it.... why are you now asking people about him?"

    .

    _____

    The accusations, assumptions are false & have been clarified & reclarified for suzannedale & numerous other 'accusers' for 19 months (1 year, 7 months) ever since I've participated in this forum.

    Kindly let suzannedale's 'Reply' stand 'as is' as it's not my concern or intent to have it edited ('toned down') or removed. My concerns are noted below.

    .

    ____________________________________________

    * noun: slander

    1. the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation.

    "he is suing the TV network for slander"

    a false and malicious spoken statement.

    plural noun: slanders

    "I've had just about all I can stomach of your slanders"

    synonyms:defamation (of character), character assassination, calumny, libel;

    scandal mongering, malicious gossip, disparagement, denigration, aspersions, vilification, traducement, obloquy;

    lie, slur, smear, false accusation;

    informal mudslinging, bad-mouthing, smack talk;

    archaic contumely

    "he could sue us for slander"

    .

    verb: slander;

    3rd person present: slanders; past tense: slandered; past participle: slandered; gerund or present participle: slandering

    1. make false and damaging statements about (someone).

    "they were accused of slandering the head of state"

    synonyms:defame (someone's character), blacken someone's name, tell lies about, speak ill/evil of, sully someone's reputation, libel, smear, cast aspersions on, spread scandal about, besmirch, tarnish, taint;

    malign, traduce, vilify, disparage, denigrate, run down, slur;

    informal badmouth, dis, trash;

    formal derogate

    "they were accused of slandering the minister"

    ____________________________________________

    .

  • Just so you're aware, even though I think this is just plain daft, you've claimed & supplied the dictionary meaning of slander - it's libel when it's the written word not slander, that's the spoken word. It's basic UK law. The clue is in the first descriptor.

  • Why is it slander if I asked if you worked for Clint Paddison? Nothing to be ashamed of.

  • [Part 2 of 15]

    .

    This type of comment doesn't seem to align with the spirit/ intent of Ailsa-NRAS comment about the forum:

    . . . This forum is not a place to promote any specific products, dietary or otherwise, but a safe space for people to talk about their experiences and gain mutual support. Diet can play a part in easing or exacerbating RA symptoms but what works or doesn't work for one, cannot be generalised over a whole RA population. . . .

    [This excerpt from Ailsa Bosworth (NRAS CEO) came from a post (ironically/ fortuitously(?) named in this context) 'Bit of an assault?! ': healthunlocked.com/nras/pos...]

    .

    _____

    Suzannedale's comment isn't 'mutually supportive' nor makes one feel it's a 'safe space' to talk about personal experiences โ€” never mind making a simple request of fellow PPers without being 'slandered'. ๐Ÿ˜ณ

    โ“ Does this sound to you as if suzannedale's intent is to besmirch, belittle, & falsely accuse me (once again) of promoting & getting paid for underhanded activity? ๐Ÿค”

    .

  • [Part 3 of 15]

    .

    For clarification, I don't 'promote' the Paddison Program (PP) nor its creator [Clint Paddison (CP)], nor do I get paid anything for sharing my personal experiences with a Whole Foods Plant-Based Diet/ Lifestyle (WFP-BD/L โ€” PP.

    And, of course, the query in my post above was about the PP forum, not about CP (its creator).

    And, of course, the reason for the query is also clearly stated in the post as well.

    .

    _____

    Kindly, help me understand, EmmaS-NRAS & Beverley-NRAS:

    .

    โ“ Why does this behaviour โ€” slanderous accusations, attempts at distorting meaning, intent, etc. โ€” continue on โ€” over a year & a half later? ๐Ÿค”

    .

    โ“ Surely if you (NRAS) thought I was a 'promoter' or a 'paid promoter' you'd have expelled me from the site? ๐Ÿค”

    .

    โ“ Why is this message (my not being a promoter ๐Ÿ“ข , 'a shill' ๐Ÿ’ท , not getting through to members)? ๐Ÿค”

    .

    โ“ Apparently, some individuals appear to follow the tack if they repeat a lie often enough โ€” enough people will eventually begin to believe it? And, those people will also (unwittingly?) perpetuate that lie, because the 'echo chamber' they inhabit reverberates with the same falsehoods reiterated over & over again . . . ๐Ÿค”

    .

    โ“ Is there anything NRAS can do to make this non-stop nonsense โ€” CEASE once & for all? ๐Ÿค”

    It's been 19 months โ€” 1 year, 7 months โ€” of non-stop harassing, besmirching, undercutting, accusations, stalking, baiting, etc. . . . ad nauseum. . .

    .

    ๐Ÿ™ƒ ๐Ÿ™ƒ ๐Ÿ™ƒ

    .

  • [Part 4 of 15]

    .

    Perhaps I hold some sort of record for 'hanging in there' the longest in the face of outrageous assaults? ๐Ÿค”

    ๐Ÿ˜‚ ๐Ÿ˜‚ ๐Ÿ˜‚

    Will I be receiving an endurance medal? ๐Ÿ…

    Or perhaps a knock on the noodle? ๐Ÿ™ƒ๐Ÿ”จ

    Or maybe a Spring bouquet ๐Ÿ’ ?

    .

    ๐Ÿ˜‚ ๐Ÿ˜‚ ๐Ÿ˜‚

    .

    _____

    โ“ I realise you've no control over other adult's behaviour on a forum, yet surely something can be done to put a stop to false accusations & other 'shenanigans' that persist?

    I consider it (& have referred to it as) perpetual harassment.

    Yes โ€” NEVER ENDING harassment.

    .

    _____

    Anyone who's been on the 'receiving end' of harassment (by an individual ๐Ÿ˜  or cluster of individuals ๐Ÿ˜  ๐Ÿ˜  ๐Ÿ˜  ) for

    an hour, ๐Ÿ•

    a day, ๐Ÿ“…

    a week, ๐Ÿ“… ๐Ÿ“… ๐Ÿ“… ๐Ÿ“… ๐Ÿ“… ๐Ÿ“… ๐Ÿ“…

    a month, ๐Ÿ—“

    a year & beyond . . . ๐Ÿ—“ ๐Ÿ—“ ๐Ÿ—“ . . .

    understands what it is

    & what its like. ๐Ÿ™ ๐Ÿ˜”

    .

    _____

    As noted (in previous communications), I've learned to ignore it โ€” by pass it.

    As any 'response' appears to 'feed into' the perpetrator's need to 'continue doing it'.

    I think allowing the perpetrator's comments to 'stand as is', reflects poorly on the accuser โ€” not the accused.

    (Guessing most thinking, reasoning individuals may view this 'disturbing' behaviour similarly?)

    .

  • [Part 5 of 15]

    .

    Aside:

    The 'Report' feature on my device doesn't work as I'd checked with HU support (long time back).

    I've come round to believe: letting the offences 'stand as is' is wiser though than having the offence 'toned down' (by editing) or 'disappeared' (by removal).

    Letting the comment 'live' โ€” remain as is โ€” allows the 'misdeeds' of perpetrators to speak loud & clear to those with 'eyes to see' & 'ears to hear'. ๐Ÿ™ ๐Ÿ˜Œ

    .

    _____

    'Wiping clean' the offences (by reporting them & having them edited or removed) 'hides/ obscures the perpetrator's misdeeds'.

    I think instigator's words should have a light shined on them ๐Ÿ’ก ๐Ÿ”ฆ ๐Ÿ•ฏ โ˜€๏ธ , as it reflects their character.

    The words should be highlighted โ€” not obliterated.

    .

    _____

    Additionally, I'd recalled NRAS suggesting to PM (since 'Report' button didn't work). I don't find that practical or necessary. (I don't think spending one's time PMing the various & sundry never-ending shenanigans ๐Ÿ“ ๐Ÿ“ ๐Ÿ“ I witness (or experience 1st hand) is a good use of my finite personal time nor of NRAS's finite work time as well. ๐Ÿ™

    .

    Let our true nature 'live on' by what we say & do. ๐Ÿ™ ๐Ÿ˜Œ

    .

  • [Part 6 of 15]

    .

    There was a previous incident (not far back) where another forum member (a newbie ๐Ÿ‘ถ ) who cheerily ๐Ÿค— introducing herself & talked about her 'PP' experience & was viciously attacked by other forum members ๐Ÿ˜ก ๐Ÿ˜ก :

    MY RA: healthunlocked.com/nras/pos...

    Once again, 'out of the blue' a forum member (newbie this time) was 'attacked'. ๐Ÿ”ช๐Ÿ˜Š

    (Instigators egregious comments disappeared & the ability to Reply to the post was turned off.)

    I'm guessing (speculating) the recipient of this outrageous attack was shocked ๐Ÿ˜ฑ (perhaps even distressed(?) ๐Ÿ˜ฆ ) by her brutal reception. ๐Ÿ™ƒโ›

    [Attempts to welcome her back failed:

    Warm welcome, Hopeyj19!: healthunlocked.com/nras/pos... ]

    .

    _____

    Again, none of this egregious behaviour from fellow forum members โ€” fellow sufferers โ€” aligns with Ailsa Bosworth's words:

    . . . a safe space for people to talk about their experiences and gain mutual support. . . . โ˜บ๏ธ ๐Ÿ™

    .

    As far as I'm aware, this new member never returned.

    .

    โ“ Is this possibly the intent of some members who 'attack' other members? ๐Ÿค”

    .

    โ“ To make members who speaks of d/l approaches (PP in particular) feel unwelcomed, uncomfortable, attacked, harassed, so they've no desire to participate or return? ๐Ÿค”

    .

    โ“ Again, is anything being done about this 'pattern of behaviour' of offending forum members? ๐Ÿค” (Other than editing or removing offensive comments.)

    From what I can infer, there's NO (zero โญ•๏ธ ) repercussions for egregious, hostile, aggressive behaviour. I see these attackers immediately back on the forum, continuing on in their offensive ways, as if nothing happened. No apologies, no remorse, nothing . . .

    .

    โ“ Perhaps I'm grievously mistaken, but from what I've witnessed (over 19 months), it appears NRAS 'tolerates' such outrageous behaviours from long-time, multi-incident, 'repeat/ serial offenders'? ๐Ÿค”

    .

  • [Part 7 of 15]

    .

    Forgive my saying ๐Ÿ™ , but I get the unsettling feeling that not only fellow members โ€” but NRAS itself โ€” 'turns a blind eye' ๐Ÿ˜‘ towards its serial offenders long track record/ history of misdeeds? ๐Ÿค”

    [In my earliest PM conversations with NRAS about my on-going ordeals with these harassers, instigators, accusers, even a stalker, I made it abundantly clear about what I observed (& what I suspected/ inferred/ speculated) was going on. If you recall, these conversations & recurring incidents went on for months on end ๐Ÿ—“ ๐Ÿ—“ ๐Ÿ—“ & even well over a year.]

    .

    _____

    โ“ Can NRAS do anything to perhaps 'actively monitor' the forum & make it truly a safe & comfortable place for 1 & all to share the abundant forum space without fear of attack or harassment? ๐Ÿค”(Especially by those members who appear to have a track record of aggression, mean-spiritedness, ill intent, undercutting, under-handed acts, passive-aggressive comments/ actions, etc.)

    [I realise staff is busy with help line & other high-priority tasks, yet is it possible to acquire active forum moderators to actually monitor what's going in 'real time'? I'm not trying to burden NRAS with additional responsibilities, merely suggesting a possible idea to help kerb the undercurrent of unpleasantness & hostilities I (& others) uncomfortably witness โ€” long after the unpleasantness has occurred.]

    .

    _____

    I also get the uncomfortably unnerving feeling that it's 'sport'/ 'entertainment' for those who repeatedly indulge in it?

    They appear to 'get away with it' (apparently) unchastised, unreproached, unscathed by the havoc they wreak in other people's lives. Therefore, they've no deterrent to repeat the behaviours.

    [Apparently if one dwells in a 'consequence-free zone', one can do anything with zero repercussions. ๐Ÿ˜ณ ]

    As well as it seemingly being some sort of 'sick sport or entertainment' for these instigators & fellow members 'within that circle of like-minded' who seem to enjoy/ delight in(?) 'piling on' & getting a 'few jabs in themselves'. ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿ˜ฑ

    .

    _____

    [Is the NRAS forum really a spot for 'middle-aged hooliganism' & 'geriatric thuggery'? ๐Ÿค” (I say with lighthearted wink & a smile ๐Ÿ˜‰ ) Is that perhaps the unintended consequence/ impression left with those who visit the site & witness such goings on? ๐Ÿค” ]

    Sorry, that's just how I interpret (misinterpret?) some of the more unsavoury 'goings on' in this forum.

    .

    _____

    Again, I've not only experienced these 'brutalisations' 1st-hand, but have witnessed these brutalisations going on (after the fact) to other individuals.

    [Thus, I too, like many others (now departed), spend less & less time on the NRAS forum & seek out other friendly, welcoming places (for 1 & all) where attacks & egregious offensive, under-handed, passive aggressive behaviour are NOT tolerated. My intent, as I'd made NRAS aware of, was to share useful information that I'd benefited from & leave it for fellow members who were also interested in such processes & to fade from the forum altogether. I, like many others, have 'had enough'.]

    .

    _____

    โ“ I realise many of us are very unwell โ€” not only physically but mentally, which may perhaps account for some of the unseemly behaviour? ๐Ÿค”

    Yet, I believe no matter one's mental/ emotional state, the behaviour should not be tolerated by NRAS & allowed to be repeated endlessly โ€” as it affects many other people: the 'recipient' of the assault & multiple 'onlookers'.

    Enough is enough.

    .

  • [Part 8 of 15]

    .

    I'd think you'd agree: it's inappropriate to allow such 'hostilities' to go on โ€” not only with other members being 'attacked' but with stupefied onlookers witnessing it in stunned silence. ๐Ÿ˜ง

    I realise NRAS has no desire to 'police the forum' & rely on fellow members to report troublesome Posts or Replies . . . yet it appears, everything's 'hunky dory' as the behaviour is seemingly allowed to go on & on . . .

    _____

    โ“ Perhaps NRAS could consider actively monitoring ('policing'?) it's forum via acquired 'real-time' moderators, to kerb the 'hooligan-like antics'? ๐Ÿค”

    .

    โ“ Perhaps NRAS (designated forum monitors?) could not only take an active role in monitoring the forum (real-time) & catching 'witnessing the patterns' of misbehaviour, but actively discouraging the perpetrators from indulging in such 'ill-intended mischief'? ๐Ÿค”

    .

    _____

    ๐Ÿ‘‰ I ask because I've not only noticed, but have been made aware (repeatedly), that there are people who are uncomfortable participating in the forum & have left.

    .

    ๐Ÿ‘‰ There are people who wish to actively participate (have queries/ concerns) but are afraid to post, fearing they'll be attacked if they ask a question that inadvertently enrages or distresses a fellow member. Or, phrases something in such a way that it's misinterpreted/ misconstrued by a fellow member & unwittingly triggers a fire-storm. ๐Ÿ”ฅ โ›ˆ

    .

    ๐Ÿ‘‰ Thus people resort to PMing 'friendly' members, whom they know will not ridicule, attack, or distress them, but will try to provide a helpful lead.

    .

    _____

    This action โ€” of avoiding actively participating in the public portion of the forum โ€” does not sound like NRAS forum is actually:

    . . .a safe space for people to talk about their experiences and gain mutual support. . . .

    .

    It's the opposite.

    People are fearful to speak up โ€” afraid to participate. ๐Ÿ˜จ

    It's 'walking on eggshells' for fear of 'triggering' some emotional outburst in some troubled soul that splashes onto the innocent. ๐Ÿ˜ณ

    .

  • [Part 9 of 15]

    .

    Some of us have a desire/ need to participate, have our concerns addressed, yet fear blowback โ€” receiving unpleasantness/ hostility.

    .

    Some of the fallout is:

    ๐Ÿ‘‰ Members on the 'receiving end of hostilities' either 'go underground' to find answers to questions or leave the forum altogether & seek/ find other safer spots for support & information.

    ๐Ÿ‘‰ Remaining members who wish to commune with & request counsel of those members who've left the forum have lost that resource.

    .

    _____

    Perhaps this isn't the experience of the bulk of forum members, but for those (minority?) of us having this experience we're left to 'fend for ourselves'.

    In a forum with the spirit of 'you're not alone', 'we understand', 'we're here for you', 'we're in this together'. . . that's not the experience of some of us.

    We are alone, we are misunderstood, we have little support from others who feel no kinship/ togetherness with us.

    .

    _____

    In short, a very unfriendly, hostile place because we're not having them same experience as the majority are having.

    We're coming from the same disease state yet having a different experience.

    We would like to talk about it with our peers having similar experiences to us. We may not be in the majority, but we too come from the same place & struggle to understand what's going on & to share ideas with each other.

    .

    _____

    We are 'driven' underground & don't speak publicly on the forum.

    If this is the intent of the forum โ€” to drive people underground โ€” then the intention is being fulfilled.

    [Unfortunately, as much as we wish, we don't have time to respond to all queries, concerns, etc. because we are 'individuals' communicating on our personal time. We have lives to lead & it's impossible for us to help/ interact with each individual 1-to-1.]

    I believe this defeats the purpose/ intention of a public forum โ€” to share amongst each other at large.

    To alienate individuals, to use fear, intimidation, aggression to silence voices that others (the majority?) don't wish to hear is the furthest thing from 'safe & supportive' environment for 1 & all.

    .

  • [Part 10 of 15]

    .

    Merely shared thoughts:

    Perhaps NRAS may wish to consider gently making some of its more aggressive members aware:

    .

    ๐Ÿ‘‰ The people they are 'attacking are real people (with real feelings, real emotions) seeking help, information, camaraderie, communing, laughs . . . just like they & everyone else is on the forum. Why drive those equally real people (with equally real needs) away? ๐Ÿค”

    .

    ๐Ÿ‘‰ Internet forums have abundant space. There's plenty of room for everyone. Why not bypass topics or people who don't interest you? ๐Ÿค” Why not instead, spend your time on topics & with people whom do interest you? ๐Ÿค”

    .

    ๐Ÿ‘‰ Just because you see a 'pool' that you don't like, do you really need go out of your way to p!ss in someone else's pool? ๐Ÿค” Why not just move on? ๐Ÿค” Why the need to get in 'a little dig', 'to toss in a barb', etc. . . .? ๐Ÿค” [What would you think if a restaurant waiter didn't care for 'what you ordered off the menu' & thought they'd have a p!ss in your soup? ๐Ÿ˜จ ๐Ÿต ]

    .

    ๐Ÿ‘‰ If you're incapable of exercising restraint or civility, perhaps you shouldn't be allowed to participate on a forum? ๐Ÿค”

    .

    ๐Ÿ‘‰ If you've an inability to regulate your emotions, perhaps you shouldn't post or reply when in such an agitated/ heated state? ๐Ÿค” Perhaps you should calm down, do something else for a while & reconsider before unleashing your un-tempered, un-filtered opinions (no matter how 'right you think you are' or how deep your 'self-righteous indignation' runs) onto another human being? ๐Ÿค”

    Perhaps you could spend a bit of time gathering your facts, tempering your tone, and exercising some restraint before shooting off your gun, your mouth, or your foot.

    .

    ๐Ÿ‘‰ Have you stopped to reflect that your assumptions, projections, or gossip you'd taken in as 'truths', could possibly be false? ๐Ÿค”

    .

    ๐Ÿ‘‰ How would you feel โ€” after unloading both barrels ๐Ÿ’ฅ ๐Ÿ’ฅ ๐Ÿ”ซ onto your targeted ๐ŸŽฏ victim of hatred/ persecution โ€” only to discover you we're terribly, horribly, grossly mistaken? ๐Ÿค” How would you feel? ๐Ÿค”

    .

    ๐Ÿ‘‰ How would you feel being on the receiving end of those bullets as an innocent? ๐Ÿค”

    .

    ๐Ÿ‘‰ And how do you undo the wounds you inflicted on that individual? ๐Ÿค”

    .

    ๐Ÿ‘‰ How would you feel if you instigated the 'witch hunt' or blindly participated in it only to realise you had made a horrendous error, a dreadful mistake? ๐Ÿค”

    .

    How do you right the wrong? ๐Ÿค”

    How do you undo the damage? ๐Ÿค”

    .

  • .

    Tragedy of the Commons . . .: criticalcommons.org/Members...

    .

  • [Part 11 of 15]

    .

    Additional thoughts that may be useful or mere rubbish:

    โ“ Just because we're unwell, does that give us license to run roughshod over others? ๐Ÿค” Does it give permission to project our fears, anger, misunderstandings, ignorance (or 'whatever') onto others? ๐Ÿค”

    .

    โ“ If NRAS can suggest 'other forums' for suffers interested in dietary/ lifestyle approaches (in addition to meds), can you share those links with us? ๐Ÿค” We'd deeply appreciate finding a place where we can commune freely without upsetting/ distressing 'the majority'. ๐Ÿ™ [We too seek to 'comfortably, supportively, safely discuss our d/l concerns as well without the accompanying barbs, nastiness, & undercutting tossed out (towards those of us who are different).] We'd gratefully receive any suggestions. ๐Ÿ™

    .

    โ“ If you don't mind, in this instance, would you kindly allow the 'source slander' to 'stand as is'? ๐Ÿค” For individuals 'with eyes to see', these types of utterances (& the individuals who utter them) are readily assessed/ identified by their very words. Onlookers, know 'who's who' by what they say.

    .

    โ“ For newcomers, young, old, in-betweens, is NRAS aware that these 'cast aspersions' set a hostile, 'unfriendly' tone? ๐Ÿค” And, that it leaves the impression slanderous comments & unsavoury 'goings on' are allowed? ๐Ÿค”

    Perhaps for those who are 'bent that way', they too may feel free to 'let loose' โ€” let the innuendo & hearsay fly towards anyone they misjudge, have preconceived notions about, or have some imagined 'axe to grind' for some imagined offence.

    Perhaps, if we don't see eye-to-eye with an anyone we too can 'drum up' mischief by as asking the 'so-when-did-you-stop-beating-your-wife' type of questions.

    Big fun, entertainment all round โ€” as one & all can freely lob accusatory bombs ๐Ÿ’ฃ๐Ÿ’ฅ at each other in some ridiculous 'war of innuendo'. ๐Ÿ˜‚ ๐Ÿ˜‚ ๐Ÿ˜‚

    (Sets a horrific example for newcomers, younger members, . . . ๐Ÿ˜” )

    .

  • [Part 12 of 15]

    NRAS, kindly take into consideration โ€” place into context โ€” the spirit & intent of what's being shared. ๐Ÿ™

    It's merely 19 months worth of observations ๐Ÿ•ต from my narrow band of experiences/ perceptions on this forum.

    I fully realise it's not likely the experience of the majority of members โ€” it may merely be a few of us?

    Regardless of minority or not, I think anyone should not have to feel intimidated, bullied, harassed, or 'whatever' & to be 'driven away' because of the actions of individuals who 'have the wrong end of the stick' & are somehow allowed to repeatedly strike others with that stick.

    Some individuals seem to 'get away with it' (these assaults) โ€” time & time again โ€” because they can.

    To hide behind the guise of 'personal opinion' doesn't justify the aggressive, mean-spirited, or 'snide' tone & intent implied by many of these individuals.

    Or, an 'after the fact' seeming expression of remorse โ€” does little to heal deep wounds โ€” particularly as the pattern of assaults continue.

    .

    _____

    For trauma survivors, victims of bullyings/ bashings & all sorts of mental/ emotional terrors, batterings, stressors, etc. . . witnessing these sorts of 'goings on' are not good โ€” not healthy.

    Perhaps NRAS consider taking a more pro-active monitoring at what goes on within the forum & not wait for 'Reports' to start rolling in.

    The 'perpetrator's' are known.

    They reveal themselves by what they say & do as well as their track-record/ history of 'assaults'.

    Kindly put an end to the strange 'dance of egregious behaviour' for the sake of (minority?) individuals who choose to remain on this forum. ๐Ÿ™

    Either kerb their antagonistic tongues ๐Ÿ‘… or silence ๐Ÿค them just as they have kerbed the tongues & silenced 'innocents' who've attempted to participate peacefully โ˜ฎ .

    .

  • [Part 13 of 15]

    .

    Supplemental info (merely FYI):

    A few recent clarifications I'd made suzannedale aware of in an attempt to clarify continual, perpetual misperceptions, misinterpretations about the PP process from my experience:

    .

    โ€ข Replies to suzannedale towards bottom of post "The University of British Columbia has written an article about Leaky Gut Syndrome. From the Canadian Society of Intestial Reseach": healthunlocked.com/nras/pos...

    .

    โ€ข Reply to crashdoll's concerns at: "From Wheelchair to Bikram Yoga (in 10 Months)": healthunlocked.com/nras/pos...

    .

    โ€ข Reply to Lucy11's concerns at: "Great little article on potential dangers of touting a 'cure' for RA": healthunlocked.com/ra-warri...

    .

    Perhaps, one day, if suzannedale & others who indulge (& seem to delight) in flinging barbs at people who implement diet & lifestyle approaches (particularly PP) should they ever take the time to read and reflect on the thoughts shared above, they may cease their slanderous accusations & cease perpetuating falsehoods about processes they appear to have little (to no) actual knowledge about, experience with, or true understanding of โ€” yet have no hesitation about robotically ๐Ÿค– , unthinkingly repeating the same catch phrases & misperceptions unendingly.

    .

  • [Part 14 of 15]

    .

    It would seem much of the misperceptions, misunderstandings, etc. perpetuated are done so unwittingly by uninformed individuals who perhaps 'mean well' (have the best intentions), yet do so with such an aggression & mean-spiritedness that it 'puts off' other members from participating in the forum.

    And, eventually 'drives away' those who wish to commune but have 'had enough' witnessing (and/ or receiving) the aggression.

    .

    _____

    Since the NRAS forum is viewed by a 'global visitors' it doesn't come across well when visitors witness these 'shenanigans' & leave with a bad taste in their mouth.

    [Can't repeat what's been said; suffice to say, the assessment was unflattering (unprintable). They were 'put off' & made it clearly known amongst their circles that it's a place to 'stay clear of'. (Now what those 'circles' did with that information, well . . . we all know how information (misinformation) spreads & gets distorted the further down the line it travels . . . ) More importantly, the groups with whom they were sharing what they'd' witnessed, were disquieted, disturbed, disbelieving of what was 'allowed to go on' amongst fellow sufferers.]

    Apparently, in the 'Internet' age, word not only 'travels fast' โ€” but individuals who think they can 'get away with' shenanigans & attacks on others (unobserved) outside their small circle without ripple effects being felt by others, are mistaken.

    In some ways, the world has become a much smaller place, & people (unknowingly) become 'known for' what they put out into the global community. (Unfortunately, sadly, individuals who may think their aggressions slip by unnoticed are mistaken.)

    .

  • [Part 15 of 15]

    .

    Merely gentle 'food for thought' for NRAS & individuals who think their actions/ misdeeds are taking place 'behind closed doors amongst a small circle of intimates who whole-heartedly support & agree with them.'

    There's a whole other, larger world of people who bear witness to the 'goings on' and walk away with very different opinions about what they've observe. And, fortunately or unfortunately, they talk about what they observe. Neither are they intimidated nor frightened by 'bullies' nor fearful of speaking out about what they see.

    The world is changing.

    Whether people like it or not.

    Perhaps one day, should some of these long-time aggressors ever receive blowback from their actions, they may sadly reap what they have sown by their deliberate, ill-intentioned actions. Perhaps experience that actions/ intentions do have consequences outside their small insular circle of forum chatter.

    People remember.

    Aggressing innocents, spreading misinformation, misleading others . . . is remembered by those who bore witness & those who'd been mislead . . .

    .

    _____

    Perhaps in the spirit of just past Easter 'resurrection' โ€” NRAS could resurrect, revive, restore good-will from those whom were unfairly treated & exposed to unpleasantness generated by its members who appear to have free reign to do & say as they please โ€” consequence-free โ€” without regard for others who are 'different'.

    .

    Merely thought for consideration. ๐Ÿค” ๐Ÿ™

    .

    _____

    Yes, yes, 15(!) segments of boring, eye-bleeding blathering to test the hardiest of souls.

    ๐Ÿ˜‚ ๐Ÿ˜‚ ๐Ÿ˜‚

    Hopefully you haven't keeled over & died ๐Ÿ˜ฒ if you've managed to read this far. ๐Ÿ™ƒ

    (Tried to keep in small chunks so easier to follow/ read.) If any dribbles & drabbles of ideas are useful to you, NRAS, please feel free to 'run with' whatever makes sense. ๐Ÿ™

    As you're well aware, there are many extraordinary, lovely, gentle, kind-hearted โค๏ธ people here. No one needs be exposed to (or continue to endure) the 'goings on'.

    Many of us have had more than enough.

    .

    ๐Ÿ™ ๐ŸŒบ ๐Ÿ€ ๐ŸŒž

    .

  • With kind permission from active PP forum participant, here are some shared thoughts/ experience/ opinion about PP forum โ€” for individuals who are interested:

    " . . . He [Clint Paddison] created the forum in response to dealing with customers with greater challenges, not knowing where it would go but knowing simply addressing each person's questions by email was too much work and also not gaining from peer support.

    So I would say anyone encountering difficulties should consider it. That's why I joined. I went so far and realised the challenge was getting bigger by the minute and needed further help. Never once regretted the decision.

    What do you get for joining?

    - Very positive support from many people in the same boat.

    - Direct support from Clint, daily when possible.

    - Phenomenal resources on almost any RA issue.

    - 1-1 Skype support from Clint monthly.

    - Various "graduates" like myself who have seen most every problem first hand giving in-depth responses. (I post therein about 10 times many days).

    - Lots more videos, podcasts and other resources from Clint not available anywhere else.

    - direct access to meetups around the world. . . . "

    .

    _____

    Thank you kindly for taking time to share your thoughts. ๐Ÿ™

    Informative & insightful. Gives me something to think about. ๐Ÿค”

    Much, much appreciated. ๐Ÿ™ ๐ŸŒบ ๐Ÿ€ ๐ŸŒž

    .

  • Communication (~5 months back) with fellow PP-er, who was a member of the PP forum. Since that time, have come to understand PP doesn't work for them, but meds do. ๐Ÿ‘

    [Names (-----) removed to respect privacy.

    >>>>>> = my thoughts]

    .

    .

    [Part 1๏ธโƒฃ of 1๏ธโƒฃ1๏ธโƒฃ]

    .

    ๐Ÿ‘‹ -----! ๐Ÿค—

    (Apologies, for ridiculously lengthy reply. Your excellent queries got me thinking/ reflecting back on 'what the heck was driving/ motivating me' to share what I'd learned/ experienced in the face of unabashed negativity/ 'hostility' within forums. Some of it might be useful to you, some of it may be useless 'babbling' ๐Ÿ—ฃ ๐Ÿ’ค -- kindly ignore . . . ๐Ÿ™ƒ ๐Ÿ˜† A bit of a triathlon 'purging of the soul' . . . ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿ˜‚ )

    .

    See >>>>>> below:

    .

    ___________________

    Hello Kai,

    I'm curious if Clint ever got back to you in regards to your queries.

    โ€จ

    >>>>>> Yes. ๐Ÿ‘

    .

    ___________________

    .

    He has people on staff that will answer questions regarding general non personal concerns so I assume you will have already received some form of answer. Were you satisfied with the reply?

    โ€จ

    >>>>>> Very much so. More than generous with explanation. ๐Ÿ‘ Don't know if it was Clint or staff response, but very much appreciated their explanation/ generosity. ๐Ÿ™

    .

    ___________________

    .

    โ€จ

    Thank you for posting the Betrayal series. I've watched the first two episodes and find it all very hopeful. I still strongly believe that RA is a complex disease with many subgroups all lumped into one disease and what I find happening for a lot of folks is a sense of guilt when lifestyle changes ( diet, supplements, exercise) don't work for them and are left without a real voice or understudying why.

    โ€จ

    >>>>>>

    Couldn't agree more. ๐Ÿ‘ ๐Ÿ‘

    Unfortunately -- sadly -- wish they/ we didn't feel any guilt for our efforts. ๐Ÿ˜”

    For sincere implementers, it's not for 'lack of effort'/ trying.

    It's not a 'blame game' -- as so many misconstrue it to be. [Those are psychological issues perpetuated by others (& even ourselves).]

    We need to think clearly, rationally & get out of the self-inflicted 'blame game' mentality. (Look it squarely in the eye & dismiss it as utter nonsense perpetuated by irrational emotionality/ ignorance.)

    None of us need allow ourselves to feel guilty! ๐Ÿ˜ฃ

    None of us (wittingly/ unwittingly) inflicted this illness upon ourselves or wanted our process to fail! ๐Ÿ˜ณ

    ______

    Yes, fully agree. Lack of real voice & understanding 'why' leaves us 'adrift'.

    We all want answers -- how/ why it doesn't work for some of us yet works for others of us. (I, too, very much want to understand.)

    In one of the podcasts, paddisonprogram.com/clint-e... , he talks about us 1 in 20 very difficult cases to treat.

    Those of us having a (much) harder time, may be the 1 in 20 who may need to make additional adjustments & take longer to improve. His explanation sounds reasonable/ plausible. ๐Ÿ‘

    [The 'Betrayal' series also addresses additional complicating factors, which may be ferreted out by 'Functional Medicine' Physicians. (If one is fortunate enough to have the resources ๐Ÿ’ท ๐Ÿ’ถ ๐Ÿ’ต ๐Ÿ’ด ๐Ÿ’ฐ to pursue FM, gawd bless 'em! Go for itโ€ผ๏ธ) Anything that reduces the length of time disease(es) are brewing in our body can only be a good thing. ๐Ÿ‘ ]

    I've no way of proving/ disproving his theories. Perhaps struggling individuals should give it thoughtful consideration & not give up the process prematurely. ๐Ÿค”

    Additional tweaks/ adjustments & continuing to be patient, persistent with such a lengthy process may well be the key. (Yes, I've been at this a very long time & the progress has been ebb & flow toward continued improvement / healing -- not worsening deterioration. (I can never go back to how bad it was before, so I choose to remain persistent in my bumbling efforts.)

    ______

    I take responsibility for my efforts -- 'lapses' as well as 'disciplined practices'. ๐Ÿ‘

    I don't blame myself if the process is not going as smoothly or as quickly as I'd like -- or for my 'all too human frailties' creating momentary setbacks. ๐Ÿ˜

    None of us are 'robots' ๐Ÿค– doing everything 'perfectly' in every moment.

    We humanly ebb & flow & (thankfully) have learned how to get back on track should we lapse. ๐Ÿ™

    Yet, (thankfully) my trend has been upward toward improvement -- not downward/ backward toward decline. (I give plant-based diet/ lifestyle (p-bd/l) FULL CREDIT for my improvements/ healings. ๐Ÿ‘ )

    ______

    It's a personal 'struggling-to-figure-things-out process'. We need to be mindful of not lapsing into 'self-blame' or blaming others (a misguided waste of precious time/ energy).

    We all go through it (struggling to figure things out & blaming ourselves for 'struggling'), but we can overcome it -- not getting 'stuck' in 'the blame game'.

    Some things we try simply don't work for us at that junction in time, at that point of disease progression; it's not a 'personal failure'.

    We have to keep trying various things/ tweaks to figure out what's working for us.

    It's in 'the trying' that we can assess what works for our unique bodily conditions.

    Once we ' give up' -- we're adrift . . .

    Lost.

    Not giving up is key.

    (Some of us don't have any other choice other than to keep trying.)

    We all need to figure out HOW/ WHY some things work for some of us & others things don't. That's the crux.

    ['Something' is going on within our individual body chemistries/ mechanisms/ bodily systems that I just don't understand & have 0 scientific/ medical understanding to even begin to comprehend -- never mind try to articulate.]

    (That's the heart of frustration amongst so many of us believers, non-believers, healthy sceptics, & outright cynics . . . Something is going on -- we just lack the understanding to grasp it & articulate it 'simply' to satisfy layman & expert.)

    .

  • [Part 2๏ธโƒฃ of 1๏ธโƒฃ1๏ธโƒฃ]

    .

    Aside:

    Don't know if you'd considered documenting your experience, -----.

    You could/ can be 1 of the calm, well-reasoned voices of 'thoughtful examination'.

    You can convey what seems to work for you, what doesn't seem to work for you, etc..

    You can be a voice of folks for whom the process has 'mixed results' or 'no results.'

    All of our voices, with all our varied experiences, need to 'speak up' & relay our actual experiences as that's the only way to convey truth to fellow autoimmuners.

    That way we can put our heads together in an effort to 'figure things out.' I encourage everyone to (appropriately, usefully, calmly, accurately, . . .) speak out about their experiences -- good, bad, indifferent. ๐Ÿ‘ ๐Ÿ‘

    All civil, well-reasoned voices have something to contribute to 'fitting the pieces of the puzzle together' -- 'connecting the dots' via public discourse. ๐Ÿ‘

    .

    ___________________

    .

    .

    Statistics show that 1 out of 4 people with RA are men. It also shows that they usually have a milder form of the disease and are rarely with erosive RA. Most, not all, who promote diet change seem to be men. There must be a connection there.

    .

    >>>>>>

    Interesting point. ๐Ÿค”

    May very well be. Don't know; haven't a clue.

    Some men I've seen (am aware of) are pretty equally (severely?) affected/ debilitated. (Perhaps they're the minority?)

    โ€จ

    In the 'Betrayal' series, there were/ are also women promoting diet/ lifestyle changes as well ๐Ÿ‘

    .

    ___________________

    .

    .

    You asked how I found the PP forum. I wanted it to help and I wanted to believe it was my key to wellness but I had a lot of trouble with conflicting statements from Clint that I already told you about.

    .

    >>>>>>

    Understood.

    โ€จ

    This is a point that has me concerned.

    โ€จ

    I believe/ trust you're speaking truth & have no reason to doubt you, -----. ๐Ÿ‘

    โ€จ

    I, too, want to explore in more detail -- especially in relation to other autoimmune diseases (not just RA).

    โ€จ

    The overlap & interplay amongst multi-autoimmune diseases is simultaneously fascinating & horrifying. Us multi-autoimmuners want to keep them (all our disease manifestations) 'well managed' & avoid disease progression (on all fronts) while minimising/ avoiding any additional meds.

    โ€จ

    A juggling feat -- attempting to continue maintaining 'Quality of Life':

    .

    .

    . . ๐ŸŽพ . . ๐ŸŽพ

    ๐ŸŽพ . . . . . ๐ŸŽพ

    ยฏ\_(ใƒ„)_/ยฏ

    .

    .

  • [Part 3๏ธโƒฃ of 1๏ธโƒฃ1๏ธโƒฃ]

    .

    May I ask why you take such a strong interest in the Paddison program? Most who find help with a given treatment usually don't stay so active in online forums as they wish to just get on with their lives and try not to be reminded on a daily basis of the horrible things that can happen with this disease. I understand wanting to help others I just wondered what you have to say about it.

    .

    >>>>>>

    Severe(?) pathological(?)) 'survivor guilt'โ“โ“ ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿ™ƒ

    (Don't know. ๐Ÿค” )

    Because my experience with plant-based diet/ lifestyle (p-bd/l) (not just Paddison's podcast) was so life-changing for me over a period of time -- it was a 'shout it from the rooftops' experience much like 'Hanna' articulates in her podcast ( paddisonprogram.com/hanna-g... ).

    โ€จ

    Realisation that since this turned things around (so drastically) for me since migrating to p-bd/l (increased/ restored mobility, dissipated debilitating pain, brain fog, fatigue yada yada yada) think what it might well do for others?! ๐Ÿค—

    โ€จ

    Think what it can do for youngsters & young families just beginning their RA journeyโ—๏ธ๐Ÿ‘ ๐Ÿ˜„

    โ€จ

    Think what it can do for the newly diagnosed (of any age) just starting their journeyโ€ผ๏ธ ๐Ÿค— ๐Ÿ™

    โ€จ

    (They needn't experience the horrors we have & borne witness to. They can be spared unnecessarily cruelty, brutality of unspeakable physical & mental declines . . .)

    โ€จ

    If they can avoid years (decades!) of suffering, misery (not only for themselves but their beloveds/ caretakers), what a blessingโ€ผ๏ธ ๐Ÿ™ ๐Ÿค—

    โ€จ

    (We needn't bear witness to more lives & livelihoods being unconscionably derailed by a lifetime of chronic debilitating disease. We need to STOP ๐Ÿšซ disease progression & the ripple effect it has on so many lives within the sufferer's circle.)

    โ€จ

    ______

    โ€จ

    I felt (& still feel) g-d lucky to have stumbled onto Clint Paddison's (CP) presentations when I did. (Pure 'dumb luck'. ๐Ÿ€ )

    โ€จ

    [Don't know what link I'd followed, but am forever grateful to whoever & whatever site that link (to presentation) was posted on. ๐Ÿ™ It turned my situation around. โ†ฉ๏ธ ('Changed my life' is an understatement. ๐Ÿ™ƒ ) If it hadn't been for my bumbling into his presentation, I truly fear how much further things would/ could have gone downhill for me. ๐Ÿ˜ฑ (Can't mentally 'go there'. Far too horrifying.) That's why I've a deep, heart-aching empathy & respect for fellow sufferers & their loved ones/ caregivers . . . And, why I tried so desperately, persistently to share what I'd learned.) I see how sufferers can rapidly decline, & saw the snowballing path I was on -- realising 'that' so easily could have been me'! ๐Ÿ˜ฑ

    ______

    โ€จ

    Humorous/ not so humorous aside:

    โ€จ

    I'd make for a terrible (permanently) crippled person. ๐Ÿ˜ณ โ™ฟ๏ธ ๐Ÿ™ƒ ๐Ÿ˜ฑ

    โ€จ

    I haven't the intestinal fortitude/ inner strength to live chronically debilitated 'day in & day out' -- months, years, decades on end.

    โ€จ

    I haven't the strength -- physical or mental 'toughness' -- to endure the pain or disability.

    โ€จ

    (All handicapped sufferers have my well-earned admiration, deep respect. ๐Ÿ™ What they endure day in & day out is unimaginable. ๐Ÿ˜ง )

    ______

    โ€จ

    My 'little foray' into cripple-dom -- was a 'mere nothing' -- a mere 'trifle' -- compared to the relentless, profound, endless suffering of so many.

    โ€จ

    (Mine was a mere 'whiff of inconvenience' in juxtaposition.)

    โ€จ

    Yet, it was crippling enough, fear-striking enough -- a holey-๐Ÿ’ฉ moment realisation that "I can't live this way"! I'm not going to live this way.

    โ€จ

    And, I'd better 'figure out' how to wake up from this nightmare, as I'm not going to 'hang around' to live out my remaining days like this . . . ๐Ÿ˜

    ______

    โ€จ

    Crawling out of this hole ๐Ÿ•ณ was my focus. I not only couldn't tolerate the pain, the debilitation, the immobility, the fatigue, the mental 'vegetable state'. I'd lives 'depending on me' (who I was/ am responsible for) so I've no choice but to try to 'figure this out'.

    โ€จ

    I had to take what ever ability (physical/ mental) I'd left to pull myself together & 'act'. I had to try & especially not let naysaying, pooh poohing, ridicule, snideness, dismissiveness -- and all those other glorious 'put downs' others use to discourage one from even contemplating alternatives -- never mind actually 'attempting' alternatives.

    โ€จ

    ______

    โ€จ

    So, now, instead of the progressive downhill slide, I've done (& am doing) the opposite: crawled out of the hole & steadily climbing back up the 'hill of wellness'. As I've gotten better & better -- I've wanted more & more.

    โ€จ

    [And, because I'm a multi-autoimmuner, I'd participated in multiple HU forums learning/ researching from the many knowledgeable & friendly folks there. (We also shared quite a few laughs (outrageous humour) amongst 'friendlies', so it was also a 'social communing' as we'll over the many months. Big fun. ๐Ÿค— Lot's of laughs. ๐Ÿ˜‚ I do miss many of those folks whom I fondly consider 'internet friends' -- like 'pen-pals' from days of old. ๐Ÿ˜„ ) ]

    โ€จ

    Looking back in hindsight (over years) -- I was far, far, far 'sicker' at that time, than I'd realised (or could acknowledge to myself or my loved ones).

    โ€จ

    And, only 'in current wellness' can I now fully grasp just how physically & mentally deteriorated I was. (How very very unwell I'd been for a prolonged time.)

    โ€จ

    To steadily, incrementally crawl out of that hole ๐Ÿ•ณ was a bloody miracle not only for myself but for my beloveds.

    .

  • I am crying right now because I could not have said it any better. I too stumbled upon CP through a link and I praise the Lord everyday for that day. I am starting the full program this week. I totally believe this to be the truth--I had totally beat the ...out of my body and ate nothing but bread and cheese in one form or another since birth? I ate a vegetable once a week or less? It's pathetic. Anyway, I have already started descending into the program, cutting out dairy, wheat, supplementing, cutting out meat (last piece of fish last night, by candlelight with a really great glass of red wine--bye bye.) Today the last of the salad and raw vegs, time to make the celery/cucumber juice and I am totally excited. There is NO DOUBT in my mind that this will help if not heal completely. Of course, I am a born-again Christian and I believe in the healing power of Jesus, miracles, and His ability to keep me in perfect peace through this process. Kai, you are on my prayer list now, and I am believing for a total healing for you as well. I will not post here again though, too much negativity and meds, meds, meds. God willing I will NEVER go near them. Be blessed and keep up the great work.

  • Thank you kindly, lindywise. ๐Ÿ™ ๐ŸŒบ Sounds like you're off to an outstanding start waving good-bye ๐Ÿ‘‹ to dairy ๐Ÿง€ , wheat ๐Ÿž , meat ๐Ÿ– , fish ๐ŸŸ , wine ๐Ÿท . . .

    In time, any craving you may (temporarily) have for these foods will pass โ€” fading into distant memory. You'll no longer miss them, or even think about them (believe it or not). ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿ™ƒ ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

    There are so many other tasty foods ๐Ÿ˜‹ โ€” especially as your taste buds change/ evolve, you'll acquire taste for foods that don't inflame/ trigger your body โ€” veg, fruits, beans, pseudo-grains, etc..

    Worry not, it comes over time. [And, remember, in the re-introduction phase, your food choices broaden. ๐Ÿ‘ ๐Ÿ‘Œ ๐Ÿค— ]

    Merely be patient ๐Ÿ™ , kind โ˜บ๏ธ , gentle ๐Ÿ˜Œ , loving ๐Ÿ˜˜ ๐Ÿ’“ with yourself . . .

    And, learn to laugh ๐Ÿ˜‚ at any momentary lapses. ๐Ÿ™ƒ

    Merely forgive yourself ๐Ÿ™ , laugh ๐Ÿ˜† , & move on. ๐Ÿ‘

    Get back on track ๐Ÿ›ค ๐Ÿš‚ โ€” guilt-free. โ˜บ๏ธ

    .

    ___

    Hope you are one of the 19 (out of 20) who experiences improvements/ healing ๐Ÿค— : Our Beloved AndySwarbs, a Hero's Journey: healthunlocked.com/nras/pos...

    Please bear in mind, 1 out of 20 have a much harder time of it, and unfortunately, have little to no improvements ๐Ÿ˜” : Hope: healthunlocked.com/nras/pos...

    .

    ___

    Also, please bear in mind, there's a time & place for judicious use of meds should we need them. [Clint Paddison has acknowledged this & many people here on this forum survive/ manage because of meds along with their dietary/ lifestyle choices. ๐Ÿ™ ]

    At the other end of the spectrum, there are individuals who survive/ manage without meds but implement multiple, fastidious dietary/ lifestyle approaches: Catching Up with 'Healing Josefine' -- Over 2 Years & 80+ Vlogs: healthunlocked.com/nras/pos...

    You'll learn & figure out over time what combination of approaches work best for you as you go along. ๐Ÿค” ๐Ÿ‘

    Keep perspectives in balance โš– (well-tempered) : Placing Dietary & Lifestyle Approaches 'In Context'/ 'In Perspective': healthunlocked.com/nras/pos...

    .

    ____

    Delighted to see your enthusiasm ๐Ÿค— for beginning the process! ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

    Kindly bear in mind, it's a marathon effort over months/ years โ€” no 'overnight miracles'. ๐Ÿ‘

    A lot of Herculean effort ๐Ÿ‹ with undulating ebbs & flows of progress. ใ€ฐใ€ฐ

    Requires persistence, stick-to-it-tivness, continual self-learning, & trial 'n error self-experimentation. ๐Ÿค“ ๐Ÿ‘

    .

    ____

    Surround yourself with loved ones ๐Ÿ‘ฉโ€โค๏ธโ€๐Ÿ‘ฉ๐Ÿ’‘๐Ÿ‘จโ€โค๏ธโ€๐Ÿ‘จ who'll support your determined efforts, keep working with your physicians, listen/ trust your body's feedback. ๐Ÿ‘ ๐Ÿ‘

    .

    ____

    Agreed, it's best to commune in an environment of like-minded folks who are supportive of your efforts. ๐Ÿ‘ ๐Ÿ™

    Reminds me of quote on image of 'running lions' ( healthunlocked.com/nras/pos... ), which reads:

    "Surround yourself with those on the same mission as you."

    ๐Ÿฆ ๐Ÿฆ ๐Ÿฆ

    (Couldn't agree more. ๐Ÿ˜Œ )

    .

    ____

    If this helps, have repeatedly found 'PP podcast' ( paddisonprogram.com/blog/ ) as a point of continual sustenance/ inspiration along the way. You might too. โ˜บ๏ธ

    Your jaw may drop as you meet people who are having the same experience as you!! ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿ˜ฏ

    You're definitely not alone in sharing similar/ overlapping experiences. ๐Ÿค— โ˜บ๏ธ Those tears (of joy/ happiness, as well as sadness) will flow again as you re-live trials & tribulations, as well as the guest speakers successes. ๐Ÿ˜ญ ๐Ÿ˜‚

    It's rollercoaster ๐ŸŽข of emotions re-vivifying your own experiences ๐ŸŽญ for better or worse. ๐Ÿ™ƒ ๐Ÿ˜Š

    .

    ____

    If this helps at all: 13 Bite-Size Thoughts for Autoimmuners -- Newly Diagnosed (or Not): healthunlocked.com/ra-warri... might have a few bits that you mightn't have thought of already. ๐Ÿค”

    .

    ____

    Wishing you the very best, lindywise. ๐Ÿ™ ๐Ÿ€ ๐ŸŒบ ๐ŸŒž

    Please feel free to come back anytime & update us on your journey, dear lady. ๐Ÿ™ Good ๐Ÿ˜Š , bad โ˜น๏ธ , indifferent ๐Ÿ˜‘ โ€” whatever your experience is.

    We all keep learning ๐Ÿค“ from each other.

    Take good care. ๐Ÿ™ ๐Ÿ€ ๐ŸŒบ ๐ŸŒž

    .

  • I am so sad to hear that there is anyone who is suffering from this condition--I meant no disrespect or smugness. I have absolutely NO idea what I am doing outside of those who have been so gracious to show us what has healed them. I feel a bit ashamed of myself for my self-righteousness. I was having a "Rocky" moment and feeling absolutely fearless. I am feeling so much better everyday and I praise Jesus--and Clint Paddison, and Dr. Klapper, and The "Wheat Belly" doctor--his name slips me, and all of the other wonderful resources out there on the internet including this forum. Please forgive me if there was anyone hurt by my thoughtlessness. Changing my diet is changing everything! Slowly and hopefully. I love you all--thank you for your advice. Have a great day :)

  • Oh, dear lindywise, please have ease of mind. ๐Ÿ™ ๐Ÿ˜Œ I didn't read anything you'd noted as being disrespectful, smug, or self-righteous in any way.

    (I'd hope no one would mistakenly perceive your kind words in that way. ๐Ÿ™ )

    Please, no worries. ๐Ÿ˜Œ

    .

    ____

    Enjoy your "Rocky" moment! ๐Ÿ‘ ๐Ÿ‘ ๐Ÿค— You've earned it. ๐Ÿ’ ๐Ÿ… ๐Ÿ†

    It's amazing to feel better & to re-discover our inner strength ๐Ÿ’ช & to emerge without fear!! ๐Ÿค— ๐Ÿ‘ ๐Ÿ‘

    .

    ____

    Agreed, thank goodness for people like Dr. Klaper, Clint Paddison, & so many others who've generously informed us of a dietary path that works for us. ๐Ÿ™

    [It's unnerving to think how things could have progressed if we hadn't implemented those dietary/ lifestyle shifts. ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿ˜ฏ (Can't go there mentally . . . )]

    Some call it 'luck' some call it 'hard work'. Whatever anyone wishes to call it, it has changed our lives for the better & we're deeply appreciative of that. ๐Ÿ™

    .

    ____

    If remembering correctly, the "Wheat Belly" is beginning to be 'debunked' . Here's an excerpt from Erika's podcast Switching from Paleo to Paddison Program to Conquer Rheumatoid Arthritis ( paddisonprogram.com/erika/ ):

    ". . . So the situation with wheat, Iโ€™m glad thatโ€ฆ Iโ€™m actually halfway through reading a book called โ€œEat Wheat,โ€ okay. Itโ€™s a book thatโ€™s just been released and it debunks all of the ridiculousness of things like grain brain and wheat belly. The author of that book is gonna be on the podcast soon. Heโ€™s just waiting on me to finish the book and then I can have him on the podcast. So, in a nutshell, breads are as diverse as you could ever imagine. So a processed white bread is an atrocity to humankind. So what the problem there really is the instant spike in glucose. It just absorbs like fairy floss, although I think you call it in the States something different, that candy cane? . . . "

    .

    ____

    Think we're in good stead as we keep learning from each other & continue implementing what we learn as we go along . . . It's ever-evolving, never-ending . . . ๐Ÿ‘ ๐Ÿค—

    Keep well, dear lady, & keep those lovely spirits up, lindywise. ๐Ÿค— โ˜บ๏ธ

    .

    ๐Ÿ™ ๐Ÿ€ ๐ŸŒบ ๐ŸŒž

    .

  • โ€จ[Part 4๏ธโƒฃ of 1๏ธโƒฃ1๏ธโƒฃ]

    .

    It's just as much a horror/ burden -- (maybe even more so?) for loved ones to bear witness to our deterioration as it is for us autoimmuners to 'live' through the experience.

    โ€จ

    They stand on the sidelines, helplessly, bearing witness & being incapable of alleviating suffering.

    โ€จ

    They are doubly, triply, quadruply . . . burdened with additional responsibilities -- having to 'pick up the slack': task-wise as well as financially, socially, emotionally, . . . because we're 'out of commission' -- non-functioning.

    โ€จ

    Not only are our lives derailed -- those around us have their lives equally derailed.

    โ€จ

    No one emerges from 'the horror' unscathed. ๐Ÿ˜ฒ

    โ€จ

    (The trauma of the ordeal -- for everyone -- is unconscionable.)

    โ€จ

    ______

    โ€จ

    That's why sufferers (& their loved ones) need to be AWARE OF options/ approaches that may work for them.

    โ€จ

    Med-only -- isn't 'the end all, be all' for everyone. ๐Ÿค”

    โ€จ

    It doesn't work for everyone. ๐Ÿ˜ฑ

    โ€จ

    For those of us for whom it doesn't work (or no longer works), we need realistic, 'doable', practical alternatives. ๐Ÿค”

    โ€จ

    Dietary/ lifestyle approaches work for some, many, (most?) of us, thankfully. ๐Ÿ™

    โ€จ

    And for those of us for whom it does work, it has shifted the perspective of some pretty hard-core naysayers/ onlookers who've borne witness to our improvements. ๐Ÿ‘

    ______

    โ€จ

    At the very least, sensible dietary/ lifestyle -- implemented in conjunction with medical team's awareness, monitoring -- results in varying degrees of improvement/ overall health. ๐Ÿ‘

    โ€จ

    At the very best, it 'contributes to'/ 'results in' remission. ๐Ÿค—

    โ€จ

    Of course, there's some of us for whom it appears the dietary/ lifestyle changes do little to nothing. ๐Ÿ™ Yet, "no harm, no foul." ๐Ÿ‘

    ______

    โ€จ

    For us 'unaffected' practioners, we can choose to tweak our processes, cease the p-bd/l approach, choose to try any number of other approaches, techniques, meds, etc. . . . ๐Ÿ‘

    โ€จ

    If/ when something fails, we're free to explore other avenues. ๐Ÿค” (We're not tied down to just 1 approach.) There's an abundance of approaches discussed by many people on forums with varying degrees of success. ๐Ÿ‘

    โ€จ

    That appears to be the raison d'รชtre of forums:

    We gather together & 'exchange ideas' of what works & doesn't work for each of us in an effort to help each other. ๐Ÿ‘

    โ€จ

    [A wonderful blessing in the Internet age -- the ability to commune with people & ideas from around the globe! ๐Ÿ™ We're no longer confined to limited/ narrow circles in which we formerly travelled. A broad spectrum of ideas open up to us once we expand our circles.]

    .

    โ€จ

  • [Part 5๏ธโƒฃ of 1๏ธโƒฃ1๏ธโƒฃ]

    .

    Yes, for some weird, inexplicable reason, I felt compelled to share all the bits & bobs, nits & noids of info that I'd gleaned along the way. ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿ™ƒ

    โ€จ

    (Perhaps it's some sort of 'survivor guilt' compulsion I just don't understand -- can't comprehend. ๐Ÿค”)

    ______

    I don't think folks who haven't yet had the 'miraculous turnaround' experience can fully grasp what I'm (bumblingly) trying to say.

    โ€จ

    One really has to have the experience -- realise how g-d lucky one is -- & want to 'shout it from the bloody rooftops!' ๐Ÿ—ฃ๐Ÿ—ฏ

    โ€จ

    It really is that life transforming.

    โ€จ

    The ability to 'live' -- to 'participate in life' again. ๐Ÿค—

    โ€จ

    (Otherwise one remains trapped -- a prisoner -- in an immobile, pain-wracked body, incapable of thinking clearly, sleeping away the day . . . ๐Ÿ˜ฉ ๐Ÿค” ๐Ÿ˜ด )

    โ€จ

    I/ we, really want to spare others the suffering & further decline by freely sharing what's worked for us.

    โ€จ

    'We know of where we speak.' ๐Ÿ™

    โ€จ

    We lived it -- and continue to live it. ๐Ÿ˜Š

    โ€จ

    If we didn't experience the turnarounds for ourselves, we too would find it pretty damn hard to believe! ๐Ÿ˜ณ

    โ€จ

    (It's a long hard slog, but it is doable & people need to be aware of that.)

    โ€จ

    They shouldn't be 'bum rushed' to 'accept their fate' . . . their 'unlucky hand' . . . their 'lot in life' . . .

    โ€จ

    They need to be aware they can influence 'the course of disease progression'.

    โ€จ

    ______

    โ€จ

    On initial viewing of CP's presentation, I didn't understand much of what he was saying as it didn't make sense to me. ๐Ÿค” (How on earth could what you put into your mouth/ stomach affect your joints, mind, fatigue, etc.โ‰๏ธ ๐Ÿ˜• )

    โ€จ

    Little of it 'registered' in my fog-addled brain, yet I kept going back to the videos & pictures of the swollen knee & elbow contraption & compared it to his current state of mobility/ health. I kept asking how could this not be possible/ trueโ‰๏ธ It didn't seem likely/ probable that he 'made it up'. (Also, why would he (or anyone) be 'making up' such a thing!?)

    โ€จ

    [On reflection, wouldn't it be a hell of a nightmare ordeal to put oneself through if the motivation was to 'scam' peopleโ‰๏ธ ๐Ÿ™ƒ (Who (in their right mind) would think that way -- never mind do such a thingโ‰๏ธ)]

    โ€จ

    I kept poking around online 'researching' (in my feeble way) trying to figure out if there was any validity to dietary/ lifestyle approaches . . .

    โ€จ

    Thus the p-bd/l journey began & evolved (for me) over time.

    โ€จ

    Blah, blah, blah . . .

    ______

    โ€จ

    Thus, my appreciation & admiration for the work of CP & the abundant information he freely provides to all of us around the globe. [Just on that free information alone, I'd had (remarkable) improvements! ๐Ÿค— ]

    [I want even more improvements now (being a long-time multi-autoimmuner). Thus I'm seeking opinion on the worthwhileness of joining the PP forum. I'm looking for useful tips & tweaks for multi-autoimmuners who are already implementing p-bd/l approaches. (I'm not interested in participating in forums/ environments rife with naysaying & pooh poohing of the very basics of p-bd/l & from people who display utter lack of understanding of the fundamentals, yet seem to imply they 'know' the program or have even 'done it' themselves!! ๐Ÿ˜‚ ๐Ÿ˜‚ ๐Ÿ˜‚

    .

    โ€จ

  • [Part 6๏ธโƒฃ of 1๏ธโƒฃ1๏ธโƒฃ]

    .

    Who has time to interact with these 'supposed' experienced/ knowledgeable people to clarify, re-clarify, re-re-clarify endlessly . . . their blatant, ill-informed perceptions. Some/ many(?) seem to intentionally(?) misrepresent/ misconstrue p-bd/l approaches -- time & time again . . . ๐Ÿ˜ณ even after their specific misperceptions have been directly addressed -- repeatedly!!

    โ€จ

    To anyone who's actually implemented a p-bd/l approach over time -- and genuinely understands it -- it's readily apparent these people who claim experience are not so experienced/ knowledgeable as they say. Judging by the misinformed/ misunderstood things they repeatedly say -- as well as outright falsehoods they (consciously?) perpetuate!! ๐Ÿ˜ฑ

    โ€จ

    They 'appear' to have minimal (to no) comprehension of the process/ approach (at all), yet seem to want to give the impression they speak 'from experience'.

    โ€จ

    Their true intent appears to be propagating falsehoods to scare away anyone wishing to consider/ discuss the approach (even as a supplemental to their current med-only approach)! ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿ™ƒ ๐Ÿ˜†

    โ€จ

    (Don't take my word for it, -----. If you've time/ inclination, go back & look at earlier posts over the past year -- read, read, read till your eyes bleed. You'll see patterns/ themes emerging. You'll be able to connect the dots for yourself. ๐Ÿค” ๐Ÿ‘ )

    โ€จ

    ______

    โ€จ

    CP's blog/ podcast helped (& continues) to help me the most (that's why I used to refer to it in my posts/ replies).

    โ€จ

    That's the approach I'm most familiar with.

    โ€จ

    And, it's openly free to all of us. (Lack of money isn't hindrance, barrier, excuse, . . . ๐Ÿ‘ )

    โ€จ

    I think his process -- and his ability to communicate clearly, simply (to us non-science, non-medical/ technical types) -- may well be the 'gold standard' of dietary/ lifestyle approaches (especially for us toughest of tough cases).

    โ€จ

    His p-bd/l approach is sensible, methodical, balanced, doable for many of us genuinely motivated sufferers.

    โ€จ

    (Merely my very subjective opinion that carries no weight -- no proof -- no scientific validity . . . ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿ™ƒ)

    .

  • [Part 7๏ธโƒฃ of 1๏ธโƒฃ1๏ธโƒฃ]

    .

    Lengthy Aside:

    โ€จ

    His (& his guests) insights have been spot on for me at each & every turn -- to my astonishment/ disbelief! ๐Ÿ˜ณ

    I can't tell you the number of times I've laughed ๐Ÿ˜‚ & cried ๐Ÿ˜ญ listening to guests share their experiences & how jaw-droppingly they'd matched mine!

    โ€จ

    We may think we're alone in having these 'horrors' (& successes) befall us -- but that's far from the truth. Around the globe there's multitudes of us leading 'parallel lives' having parallel experiences. ๐Ÿ˜ณ

    The similarities & overlaps are freaky/ spooky. ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿ‘ป

    โ€จ

    On the one hand it's a blessing we're 'not alone' or 'imagining' our bodily dysfunctions; on the other hand, it's horrifying that so many of us are experiencing the same bodily lapses! ๐Ÿ˜ฑ

    โ€จ

    There's SOMETHING going on -- across the globe.

    And, if we want to help ourselves improve/ heal we need to connect with other genuine people seriously seeking likewise -- not 'dabbling dilettantes'.

    โ€จ

    We/ I don't need to engage with people who are back at square 1, endless-loop ๐Ÿ”ƒ , circle-arguing ๐Ÿ”„ that "diet has nothing to do with disease manifestation/ progression" ๐Ÿ™ƒ -- when our (my) own, personal, 1st-hand experience has proven otherwise to myself & those around me.

    โ€จ

    (On a paradoxically humorous -- not so humourous note:

    To my mind, they (naysayers) are the equivalent of 'holocaust deniers' & 'cigarettes-unrelated-to-causing-cancer deniers' of the not so distant past. ๐Ÿ˜ฑ )

    โ€จ

    Who wants to waste personal time (in a friendly spirit of sharing, helping, commiserating, laughing, crying, communing . . . ) only to be continually confronted with (intentional?) mean-spiritedness, (willful?) misguidance, 'unhinged' rage/ vitriol, ad nauseum . . . ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿ™ƒ

    โ€จ

    Being a slow, frightfully naive (idiotic ๐Ÿ˜œ ) Pollyanna, I'd 'frittered away' untold hours over the past year in an attempt to connect with some genuinely lovely, kind people on the forums only to be sidetracked by some pretty disturbed, rage-filled, aggressive individuals whose intent/ 'agenda' appeared to be 'arguing' the same misconceptions over & over again.

    โ€จ

    What a foolish waste of time/ energy!! ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿ™ƒ ๐Ÿ˜

    Lesson learned. ๐Ÿ™ƒ๐Ÿ”จ

    โ€จ

    Never again! ๐Ÿ˜‚

    โ€จ

    [I'm done being a 'magnet of hatred', a 'whipping boy' for those (troubled) individuals with some pathologically mean-spirited 'axe to grind' . . . ๐Ÿ˜ฑ ]

    โ€จ

    People who are genuinely interested in sharing ideas on topics of interest are in touch & we share calm, well-reasoned discussions -- sans drama/ hyperbole instigated by malcontents. ๐Ÿ™„ ๐Ÿ˜–

    .

    โ€จ

  • [Part 8๏ธโƒฃ of 1๏ธโƒฃ1๏ธโƒฃ]

    .

    Back on topic:

    โ€จ

    That's why I refer back to his (CP's) easily accessible podcasts/ videos; and, I suspect that's why I've been repeatedly accused of 'promoting' his work. ๐Ÿ˜† ๐Ÿ˜‚

    โ€จ

    There's plenty of other plant-based diet / lifestylers (p-bd/l): McDougall, Klaper, Aggarwal, Greger, Esselstyn, Fuhrman, Ornish, Barnard, . . . . to research. ๐Ÿ‘

    โ€จ

    Each with their own perspectives/ 'variations on a theme' . . . ๐Ÿ‘ [I respect/ value their works & believe they are also 'reputable/ reliable' sources of free information/ research. They're neither 'extremists nor nutters', which seems to be yet another 'false meme' the old guard like to imply & bandy about . . . ๐Ÿ˜† ๐Ÿ˜‚ ]

    โ€จ

    I'd referred to these reputable physicians repeatedly/ endlessly as well, yet folks seem to focus their 'rage' towards CP. ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿ™ƒ (Perhaps he's the designated 'whipping boy' (no matter how unfairly) for 'all that doesn't work' when attempting a p-bd/l approach!?)

    ______

    โ€จ

    I believe he speaks 'his truth' & it's up to us to assess what makes sense (or doesn't make sense) for our particular conditions/ situations.

    โ€จ

    If we're not 'operating in a vacuum', we've our medical teams & our loved ones to consult with as well.

    โ€จ

    So, as with everything in life, we really need to thoroughly 'think through' the information from all sources & discuss it with trusted physicians as well as our loved ones. ๐Ÿ‘

    โ€จ

    We can civilly express what techniques aren't working for us (as individuals) without indulging in 'the blame game' -- scapegoating -- 'attacking' individuals who are merely sharing their experience for everyone's benefit/ scrutiny.

    โ€จ

    ______

    โ€จ

    To my mind, there's an awful lot of 'spot on' techniques that CP has suggested though PP. ๐Ÿ‘

    โ€จ

    He may well not be 100% correct on everything for every autoimmuner implementing his process -- yet, for autoimmuners like me -- his process comes closer than anything else I've tried.

    โ€จ

    โœ”๏ธ If he's a mere 40% right, that's better than 0%.

    โœ”๏ธ If he's only 60% right, that's even better.

    โœ”๏ธ If he's 80% right, that's outstanding!

    โ€จ

    I didn't/ don't expect 'perfection' (100%) & certainly didn't expect 'miracles' -- from a fellow, fallible human being.

    ______

    โ€จ

    Yet, what he'd freely shared with everyone, has helped set many many of us on the right course for our conditions.

    โ€จ

    He appears to be an open-minded fellow sincerely trying to work with & help others -- sharing theories/ techniques he genuinely believes. ๐Ÿ‘

    โ€จ

    [I don't perceive him as being the 'money-grubbing, false-hope, snake oil salesman' that vitriolic forum members have painted to be. ๐Ÿ˜ฑ ๐Ÿ™ƒ ๐Ÿ˜‚ ]

    โ€จ

    I see his podcast (& his forum) as attempts at bringing people together -- in friendly, supportive, communal dialogue -- to 'figure things out' -- to genuinely help each other. ๐Ÿค—

    โ€จ

    No one person has 'all the answers'.

    .

  • [Part 9๏ธโƒฃ of 1๏ธโƒฃ1๏ธโƒฃ]

    .

    At the very least, CP's efforts are admirable -- even remarkable.

    โ€จ

    He seems to open-heartedly encourage people to help themselves (& to help each other) -- in contrast to the malicious, divisive undercutting that I'd routinely witnessed (& experienced the full brunt of) elsewhere. ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿ˜ฑ

    ______

    โ€จ

    A key (for us autoimmuners) is to find practioners (of whatever approaches suit us) who resonate with us & try their techniques -- sensibly -- in consult with our medical teams of course. ๐Ÿ‘

    โ€จ

    The aforementioned plant-baser physicians 'click' for me; those are the folks I've more familiarity with, thus those are the folks whose work I refer to. ๐Ÿ‘

    โ€จ

    [I know Paleo folks (& other approaches) who say they are doing well, swear by the leaders in their Paleo world. That's terrific. Gawd bless 'em! I've no reason to doubt their experience, their approaches. ๐Ÿ™ (Who am I to judge โš– approaches that work well for others?!) To each his own. Vive la diffรฉrence! ๐Ÿค—

    Whatever works for someone -- so be it. We're all seeking the same thing: relief from pain, suffering, progressive debilitation . . . Whatever methods work for any one of us is a blessed relief. ๐Ÿ™ ๐Ÿค— ]

    ______

    โ€จ

    Yes, indeed, I'd stayed on the site far far longer than I'd ever anticipated -- until I was 'removed'. ๐Ÿ˜ฑ

    โ€จ

    What spurred me on (to stay) was the outright (shocking) hostility/ negativity my merely 'talking about' the p-bd/l approach incited amongst forum members -- which went on within the forum (& behind the scenes in endless PMs with forum staff) unrelentingly for 13 months. ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿ˜ฑ

    โ€จ

    [Yes, there's a whole heck of a lot of (unpleasant) 'history' that (most/ all?) forum members are oblivious to. ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿ˜ฑ]

    ______

    โ€จ

    โ€จ

    The fact that my merely 'sharing what worked for me' incited so much (at times) vitriol . . . was a red flag (to me) that something 'weird' was going on.

    โ€จ

    Continually being 'shouted down'', blatant attempts at undercutting, discrediting, ridiculous accusations, & even 'stalking' -- yes stalking. Having continual complaints against my postings, replies, & me (personally) & being 'reported' & having posts pulled down.

    โ€จ

    All these 'shenanigans' were all red flags -- something's 'amiss'. ๐Ÿ™ƒ ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿ˜ฑ

    ______

    โ€จ

    Yes, my original intent (a year+ ago) was merely sharing the abundant free resources that helped me & to learn from (commune with) fellow p-bd/l-ers . . .

    โ€จ

    Well, that happened to some degree with some lovely, generous folks, but unfortunately there appeared to be a 'cabal-like effort' to drum me off the site . . . ๐Ÿ˜ฑ

    โ€จ

    Unfortunately, the 'poisoning of the well' by some pretty aggressive, mean-spirited characters ๐Ÿ˜ก ๐Ÿ˜ˆ ๐Ÿ‘บ made my stay 'unpleasant' (to put it mildly).

    โ€จ

    They seemed hell-bent on discrediting/ undercutting/ ridiculing any p-bd/l tips/ techniques (coming out of my mouth) & scaring away any newly diagnosed or long-time sufferers from trying anything other than what 'they' endorsed.

    ______

    โ€จ

    They seemed to 'delight in' mis-representing, misconstruing each & every thing I'd shared -- perpetuating falsehoods & misperceptions at each & every turn -- continually 'Reporting' my posts . . . & attempting to pull them down (& succeeded in doing so).

    โ€จ

    They also seemed to 'revel in' publicly besmirching Clint Paddison's work & personal character! ๐Ÿ™ƒ ๐Ÿ˜ณ

    โ€จ

    All strikingly bizarre behaviour (harassment) that forum staff allowed to go on for months on end -- even had the temerity to 'defend' . . . ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿ˜ฑ ๐Ÿ™ƒ

    โ€จ

    [This was accepted/ condoned(?) behaviour in a public forum that was supposed to be a friendly, warm welcoming site to 1 & all, & tolerant of all viewpoints/ experiences!! ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿ˜‚ Judge for yourself. โš– Think for yourself. ๐Ÿค” (If you stick around long enough, read enough posts/ replies while fully engaging your brain, you'll figure things out. ๐Ÿ˜ณ )]

    .

  • [Part ๐Ÿ”Ÿ of 1๏ธโƒฃ1๏ธโƒฃ]

    โ€จ.

    Again, all these shenanigans were hints/ indicators that something's going on, when 'out of the blue' a gaggle of members are behaving in this sustained, groupthink way -- especially making a 'concerted effort'(?) to drown out, shout down, a fellow member. ๐Ÿ˜ณ

    โ€จ

    I was (& am) here to communicate, share with, & learn from people who are genuinely interested in p-bd/l approaches. (Thankfully, we all learn from each other. ๐Ÿ™ ๐Ÿค—)

    โ€จ

    I've no interest in arguing with 'trolls(?)' who appear to have their own agenda. . . [Creating FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt) & getting their jollies from ๐Ÿ’ฉ-stirring. Gawd only knows what their true motivations are . . ]

    ______

    โ€จ

    On reflection of the year-long ordeal, I can only (logically) infer: they virulently disagreed with what I'd shared & were relentless in using 'any means necessary' to misconstrue, misrepresent, misinterpret, misunderstand, minimise, dismiss, undercut, ridicule in an effort to silence me & squelch what I'd shared.

    โ€จ

    And, all 'evidence'/ history of their 'misdeeds' have magically disappeared after they/ HU 'accidentally' obliterated my accountโ€ผ๏ธ ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿ˜ฑ ๐Ÿ™ƒ ๐Ÿ˜‚

    โ€จ

    (Funny how that little oops 'just happened' -- and conveniently explained away as an 'over-sensitive spam filter' resulting from user complaints/ reports . . . ๐Ÿ˜‚ ๐Ÿ˜‚ ๐Ÿ˜‚ )

    โ€จ

    Anyhoo, blah blah blah . . . ๐Ÿ˜ด ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿ˜†

    ______

    โ€จ

    Through all the tedious 'sturm und drang' I've been fortunate to meet some pretty remarkable, genuinely lovely people (such as yourself) who've made all the troubles/ harassment worth 'sticking around.'

    โ€จ

    Those are the folks I communicate with.

    โ€จ

    ______

    โ€จ

    I've learned the (very) hard way -- to avoid interacting with or 'feeding the trolls' . . .

    โ€จ

    Acting in force, they can & do have the ability to have another member's account 'pulled down' & that member's entire year-long, near daily research, contributions, laughs, tears, commiserations . . . obliterated in the blink of an eyeโ€ผ๏ธ ๐Ÿ‘

    .

  • [Part 1๏ธโƒฃ1๏ธโƒฃ of 1๏ธโƒฃ1๏ธโƒฃ]

    .

    Oh, another 'bit for thought' that got brain wheels turning about this whole 'p-bd/l approach stuff': when my (much loved, respected, admired, (extremely) conservative ๐Ÿ˜ฑ medical institution) rheumatologists, specialists, physicians, nurses . . . tell me they can only do their best to 'manage symptoms & try to keep me comfortable & functional' & that's all they can do.

    โ€จ

    Although I am grateful for that genuine care ๐Ÿ™, it simply 'isn't enough' for me. I want/ seek full-blown wellness/ healing -- not mere 'pain management' & mere 'functionality.'

    โ€จ

    When I inform them of what I'm doing to maintain & restore health, they understand & explain they cannot (formally?) endorse what I'm doing -- yet unsolicited, they leave me with the parting words "keep doing what you're doing, you're doing well . . . " ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿค—

    โ€จ

    (A bit of 'cognitive dissonance'. ๐Ÿ˜‚ ๐Ÿ˜‚ ๐Ÿ˜‚ )

    โ€จ

    Now, coming from a conservative medical institution/ system', that's a 'ringing endorsement'โ€ผ๏ธ ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿ˜† ๐Ÿค—

    โ€จ

    ______

    โ€จ

    What I/ we are doing is 'out of their bailiwick'. They've not been trained in it. It's not part of their 'official, sanctioned protocol'.

    โ€จ

    They cannot formally 'endorse' it.

    โ€จ

    Yet -- neither being blind ๐Ÿ˜Ž nor ignorant fools ๐Ÿƒ or active 'deniers' -- they see 'no harm' in my implementation (& the undeniable results speak for themselves) . . . ๐Ÿค—

    โ€จ

    The best they can do, with a metaphorical wink, smile, & 'knowing nod', is just say "keep at it!" ๐Ÿ˜‰ ๐Ÿ˜Š ๐Ÿ˜Œ

    โ€จ

    ______

    โ€จ

    Our medical institutions appear to 'walk a tightrope' of what they can 'officially/ legally' say & what individual practitioners actually (undeniably) witness in their patients & cannot dismiss.

    โ€จ

    Blessedly, the majority of practitioners I've encountered (in my current medical care system), are 'enlightened' enough to encourage me to continue on with my techniques/ approaches (that I've learned from ALL aforementioned practitioners) -- despite my personal medical team members not knowing/ understanding the details/ nuances of what I've learned. (It's outside their expertise, outside their field of training, & I certainly don't blame them for that.)

    โ€จ

    All they see are 'results' & are open-minded/ tolerant enough not to discourage, undermine, ridicule my efforts.

    ______

    โ€จ

    (The proof is in test results & equally (if not more) the overall way we feel, increased ability to function, & decreasing reliance on familial support for daily, routine, functioning . . .)

    โ€จ

    The mere fact that their tests reaffirm how well I'm doing & their encouragement to "keep doing what your doing," is a 'sideways(?) approval/ affirmation' that the p-bd/l techniques I've been implementing work for me. ๐Ÿ‘

    โ€จ

    If they work for me, surely they can work for others. ๐Ÿ‘ Agreed, they may not work for everyone -- yet, some is better than none. ๐Ÿ™

    โ€จ

    ______

    โ€จ

    Hope that thoroughly addresses all queries, -----. (Don't hesitate to give a scream if anything needs clarifying or other queries come up. I'm always happy to share what I'm aware of.)

    โ€จ

    Back to PP forum: I very much understand & respect your legitimate concerns. ๐Ÿ™ I believe you speak truth & have no reason to misrepresent or exaggerate. ๐Ÿ‘

    โ€จ

    โ“ Have you overall considered it (the forum) worthwhile -- despite your not agreeing with CP's views on particular, significant points?

    โ€จ

    โ“ Are you able to glean useful bits & insights from the other practitioners/ members there (on the forum)?

    โ€จ

    โ“ Or, is it a waste of time & money from your experience?

    โ€จ

    ______

    In larger context, CP, is a skilled practitioner in his sphere of experience & I respect his perspective (just as I respect my medical team's experiences/ perspectives). And, I respect/ appreciate his ability to 'bring people together' into a community to help each other.

    โ€จ

    Neither stand alone; neither are 'the end all be all'.

    โ€จ

    To my mind, the varied approaches/ perspectives work 'in concert' & it's up to me/ us to attempt to assess what techniques best work for us.

    โ€จ

    If there are other skilled practitioners (especially multi-disease autoimmuners) on the PP forum I'd be interested in joining to communicate, learn from, & share with those knowledgeable individuals . . . ๐Ÿ‘

    โ€จ

    Otherwise, if there aren't skilled, multi-autoimmuners in the PP forum, it mayn't be a good use of time or money. ๐Ÿ‘Ž

    If the forum is merely a re-hashing of what's already on the PP podcast, then I'll merely re-re-re listen to the podcasts to re-learn.

    ___________________

    .

    โ€จ

    Best to you.

    -----

    .

  • I'd received no follow-up responses to my shared thoughts or to my specific (PP forum) queries:

    โ“ Have you overall considered it (the forum) worthwhile -- despite your not agreeing with CP's views on particular, significant points?

    โ€จ

    โ“ Are you able to glean useful bits & insights from the other practitioners/ members there (on the forum)?

    โ€จ

    โ“ Or, is it a waste of time & money from your experience?

    .

    Am uncertain, but am left with the overall 'impression' that they would neither recommend the PP forum (nor the PP program?) itself based on previous communications & subsequent posts. ๐Ÿค”

    .

  • I'm still thinking about it but until I get this gallbladder out it's a no go then I'm stripping everything back and going t give it a go

  • Very sorry to hear about gallbladder, popsmith1874. ๐Ÿ˜” ๐Ÿ™

    Don't know how this type of dietary process [Whole Foods Plant-Based Diet/ Lifestyle (WFP-BD/L)] would work with a 'just removed gallbladder'. ๐Ÿค”

    (Would imagine you'd have to be particularly careful. ๐Ÿค” )

    Think you'd wish to work closely with your medical team before making any dietary/ lifestyle (d/l) changes considering the removed gallbladder. ๐Ÿค”

    .

    _____

    If you're seriously interested in d/l options, popsmith1874, you may wish to explore what fellow NRAS autoimmuners have to say about "diet": healthunlocked.com/search/d... (HU/NRAS search results for 'diet' on this forum.)

    .

    There's an abundance of d/l options & experiences to wade through. ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿ™ƒ Each of us appear to have a spectrum of experiences (or opinions) to share โ€” good, bad, indifferent . . .

    .

  • I've been told that I need to be looking at a low fat non dairy diet at the moment and although I've cut out a lot I still eat some dairy so I'm starting slowly

  • WFP-BD/L definitely is that โ€” low fat, non-dairy. ๐Ÿ˜

    There's substitutes like oat milk, almond milk, etc. & various other 'transitional'/ substitute foods that help us 'over the hump'.

    Looking back (waaay back) โ€” you gradually stop missing/ craving the old fat/ dairy favourites (believe it or not), but it takes time.

    And/ if, you begin to feel better & better โ€” you really 'get over' missing fat/ dairy foods. ๐Ÿ‘

    (A 'dirty little secret' is, you discover new foods, new favourites. You don't hear much about that though. ๐Ÿ˜‚ ๐Ÿ˜† ๐Ÿ™ƒ )

    Yes, starting slowly works. ๐Ÿ‘ Do what makes sense for you, popsmith1874. ๐Ÿ‘

    Wishing ๐Ÿ€ you the very best. ๐Ÿ™ ๐ŸŒบ ๐ŸŒž

    .

  • I was eating probiotic cottage cheese everyday before I realized I was sick, in addition to a lot of cheese--on everything (with bread in every form, beer, and BBQd rib eye steaks and pork ribs.) I gladly gave them ALL up to not do the pain. I will gladly live on grass if it will make me pain free.

    May all of you be healed :)

  • Smart cookie ๐Ÿค“ ๐Ÿช , lindywise! ๐Ÿ‘

    Yes indeed, we gladly forego them ( ๐Ÿš ๐Ÿง€ ๐Ÿž ๐Ÿบ ๐Ÿ– ๐Ÿ– ) to be pain free!! ๐Ÿค—

    And, there are so many other new, delicious foods that we acquire a taste for that we no longer miss (or pine for) old favourites. ๐Ÿ˜ƒ ๐Ÿ˜‹

    Too many good things ( ๐Ÿƒ ๐ŸŠ ๐Ÿ  ๐Ÿ’ ๐Ÿฒ ๐Ÿต ) to dwell or fret over what's past. Besides, being without constant, continual, never-ending pain ๐Ÿ˜ซ ๐Ÿ˜ฉ ๐Ÿ˜ฒ is a blessing in itself. ๐Ÿ™

    Who cares what we have to ingest to be released from that suffering?! ๐Ÿ˜† ๐Ÿ‘ ๐Ÿ˜‚

    A bowl of lovely grass clippings ๐ŸŒฑ๐ŸŒฑ๐ŸŒฑ would suit some of us just fine to be freed from un-ending, brutal pain ๐Ÿ˜ฉ . . .

    .

    ๐Ÿ™ ๐Ÿ€ ๐ŸŒบ ๐ŸŒž

    .

  • That's normal advice in the lead up time to a cholecystectomy Pospsmith, eating a low fat diet. You'll probably be advised about eating after the op but it's recommended you eat small but frequent meals the days immediately after surgery. Following that they do say you should be able to eat normally but it's not always the case for everyone. It's probably best if you trial foods, see if you react to anything because everyones's different. General advice is that you don't need to keep to a specific diet though some find they don't tolerate fatty foods as well as they did prior to the op but otherwise a healthy & well balanced diet is advised. I think it's a case of suck it & see given everyone responds differently.

    Keyhole surgery is of course less invasive so if all goes as it should you should be home the following day, or the same day if you're down to go to theatre early doors. Hopefully wind will be your worst problem post op if you are having keyhole, in your shoulders particularly I found as they pump CO2 in to make it easier to see what they're doing. It might be an idea to have your wife bring in a packet of Windeze for relief!

    I hope all goes according to plan & your stay in hospital (again!) is a short one then you can get home to recover where you're comfiest, I'm sure your wife will take very good care of you. Hope you're not allocated a bed next to a snorer again either! ๐Ÿ˜ซ

  • If you're genuinely serious about choosing a d/l approach (in conjunction with your meds, of course), my best thoughts to you (to anyone) are:

    โ€ข Do your research on the variety of approaches. ๐Ÿ•ต

    โ€ข See what sounds sensible/ doable to you, your medical team, & loved ones. ๐Ÿค”

    โ€ข Implement an approach you've selected & sincerely committed to. ๐Ÿ‘

    โ€ข Give the approach a fair go, a fair amount of time, a fair effort. ๐Ÿ‘

    โ€ข Monitor/ document your experience/ progress to see if it's working for you. ๐Ÿ“

    โ€ข All the while, continuing to work with your medical team for monitoring/ tracking ๐Ÿ“ˆ ๐Ÿ“‰ ๐Ÿ“Š

    .

  • If you're seriously interested in a WFP-BD/L specifically, there's abundant freely ๐Ÿ†“ available information on the NRAS forum. I'd gathered/ posted info (that helps me & others) under profile: healthunlocked.com/user/kai...

    (If you click the blue 'Read more' link, you'll see a list of posts containing links to resources you may find helpful.)

    .

    If you & your physicians are sincerely interested in exploring/ jumpstarting your research (on WFP-BD/L), those resources/ references may help. ๐Ÿ‘

    .

  • For people choosing the 'Paddison Program' (PP) approach specifically (PP is a particular WFP-BD/L approach tailored to RA/ autoimmuners), my understanding is:

    โ€ข For some (many?) implementers, it's not easy (extremely difficult) yet, gets easier over time.

    โ€ข For 1 out of 20, they've no apparent results & can become disappointed, devastated, even angry.

    โ€ข And, of course, it's a process only for the genuinely committed/ dead-serious. It's not for 'dabblers & dilettantes' who give a 'half-hearted attempt' or 'give up' shortly after it starts getting difficult & exclaim 'it's BS' ๐Ÿ‚ ๐Ÿ’ฉ !! ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿ™ƒ ๐Ÿ˜‚

    .

    Wishing you the very best, popsmith1874, with your gallbladder removal & whatever approaches you & your team assess are best for you to pursue. ๐Ÿ™ ๐ŸŒบ ๐Ÿ€ ๐ŸŒž

    .

  • Supplementally, a few recent NRAS PP-ers results:

    For some, the process doesn't work:

    โ€ข Great little article on potential dangers of touting a 'cure' for RA: healthunlocked.com/ra-warri...

    โ€ข Hope: healthunlocked.com/nras/pos...

    .

    For some, the process does work:

    โ€ข Our Beloved AndySwarbs, a Hero's Journey: healthunlocked.com/nras/pos...

    โ€ข Almost drug free and now pain free: healthunlocked.com/nras/pos...

    .

  • It appears (at this point), no one can predict ๐Ÿ”ฎ 'who' the process will work for ๐Ÿ˜Š or 'who' it will fail ๐Ÿ˜ž .

    Just as with meds, d/l processes are a "try it & see" self-experimental/ experiential process.

    Keep working closely with your physicians (in conjunction with meds) for monitoring/ safety no matter what combination of approaches you choose to implement. ๐Ÿ‘

    That's the best I can share with you, popsmith1874. ๐Ÿ™

    (Hope it helps. ๐Ÿ™ )

    Wishing you relief with your gallbladder & feeling much better soon. Take good care. ๐Ÿ™ ๐ŸŒบ ๐Ÿ€ ๐ŸŒž

    .

    _____

    Oh, remember, GranAmie (above) will be attending an 'RA - diet conference' (in early May) & will kindly share her feedback with us. ๐Ÿ™ We may glean additional insights/ perspectives from her shared thoughts, as well. ๐Ÿ‘

    .

  • Beverley-NRAS, EmmaS-NRAS,

    In light of recent post Goodbye Andy.....sad to see you go (

    healthunlocked.com/nras/pos... ) which seems to (frighteningly ๐Ÿ˜ณ ) illustrate (what i've blathered on about above), would you still be able to address the queries I'd ask (because the post is now closed)? ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿ™

    (I realise you're busy with high priority tasks, very much understood/ appreciated. ๐Ÿ™ ๐Ÿ‘ ๐Ÿ˜Œ I hope you'll be able to spare a bit of time to address the queries & to help those of us who are concerned about Andy's disappearance, so that we can understand. ๐Ÿ™ )

    Thank you kindly for any clarifications/ insights you're able to share. ๐Ÿ™

    My source queries from the original post follow below:

    .

    __________________________________________

    Apologies. ๐Ÿ™

    Confused. ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿค”

    .

    Just skimmed andyswarbs NRAS posts/ replies from several days ago: healthunlocked.com/user/and...

    .

    I'm not grasping/ understanding what the issue is. ๐Ÿ™ƒ ๐Ÿ˜ณ

    I can't see ๐Ÿ‘€ anything anyone would take umbrage to. ๐Ÿค”

    Am I blind? ๐Ÿ˜Ž

    .

    ____

    Why โ€” all of a sudden โ€” has andyswarbs 'gone poof'?, Beverely-NRAS, EmmaS-NRAS?

    (Makes no sense to me.)

    .

    [ andyswarbs experience has proved invaluable to me, as well as others ( healthunlocked.com/user/and... ).]

    To lose a calm, sound, well-reasoned voice of dietary/ lifestyle (& med) โ€” without explanation โ€” seems odd, as well as being a d@mned crying shame. ๐Ÿ˜” ๐Ÿ˜ž

    Any clarifications/ explanations, Beverely-NRAS, EmmaS-NRAS? ๐Ÿค” ๐Ÿ™

    Thank you kindly for any insights you can share. ๐Ÿ™

    .

    __________________________________________

    Additionally,is the NRAS forum actually a place where those of us implementing diet/ lifestyle approaches (in addition to our meds) are truly welcome to share our experiences amongst ourselves?

    [Perhaps there's a bit more 'harsh reality' to this tedious blathering ( Anyone on the "Paddison Program Forum"?: healthunlocked.com/nras/pos... ) than I (or others) imagined. ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿ˜ฏ ๐Ÿ˜ง ๐Ÿ˜” ๐Ÿ˜ž ]

    .

    __________________________________________

    My understanding was we were allowed to / share from our experience according to this Ailsa Bosworth, NRAS CEO, note from post 'Bit of an assault?! ': healthunlocked.com/nras/pos...

    . . . This forum is not a place to promote any specific products, dietary or otherwise, but a safe space for people to talk about their experiences and gain mutual support. Diet can play a part in easing or exacerbating RA symptoms but what works or doesn't work for one, cannot be generalised over a whole RA population. . . .

    .

    I believe andyswarbs was kindly/ generously sharing his personal experience & not 'promoting' his approach โ€” the approach he followed.

    (Perhaps that interpretation is "in the eye ๐Ÿ‘ of the beholder"? ๐Ÿค” )

    Has that now changed? ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿค”

    .

    I took Andy's 'talking about' ๐Ÿ—ฃ๐Ÿ’ฌ the approach he used as just that โ€” "talking about" ๐Ÿ—ฃ๐Ÿ’ฌ the approach he used (that worked for him) โ€” no more, no less . . .

    .

    __________________________________________

    My understanding is this forum is supposed to be:

    " . . . a safe space for people to TALK ABOUT their experiences and gain mutual support."

    .

    I don't grasp how we can "talk about" ๐Ÿ—ฃ๐Ÿ’ฌ what we are doing, if uttering the 'name of the thing' we are doing is 'frowned upon'? ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿ™ƒ

    Should we just use the name 'Marklar' ( southpark.cc.com/clips/1515... ) and 'be done with it' โ€” so no one thinks we're 'promoting' anything? ๐Ÿค”

    Or perhaps 'semaphore' would be acceptable, as in this example:

    .

    Wishing one & all a fine 'Marklar' ๐Ÿšฉ๐Ÿณ๐Ÿด day . . . ๐Ÿ™ ๐Ÿ˜Œ

    .

    ๐Ÿ™ ๐Ÿ€ ๐ŸŒบ ๐ŸŒž

    .

  • EmmaS-NRAS,

    Beverley-NRAS,

    Just remembered (from previous communications early on) โ€” any updates/ insights into HU's or NRAS's ability to allow individual members to 'Block' the ability to view specific individual members posts/ replies?

    (That is, the individual member will be able to select other members' monikers (from a list?) whose posts/ replies they'd prefer not to see/ view. Thus blocking ๐Ÿšซ that person's responses from view.)

    Think that may go a long way towards reducing the 'annoyance' factor . . . ๐Ÿค” ๐Ÿ‘ ๐Ÿค—

    That is, for example, for individuals who've no interest in dietary/ lifestyle posts from specific individuals (such as 'Kai--') they could readily block ๐Ÿšซ Kai--'s comments from view, thus never having to be annoyed/ disturbed again. ๐Ÿ‘ ๐Ÿ‘

    Think some type of 'Block ๐Ÿšซ Feature' would minimise all the annoyance that so many vocal, upset, distressed, angered, annoyed . . . . members wish to avoid/ eliminate altogether. ๐Ÿค” ๐Ÿ‘

    Hope this contributes towards finding a peaceful โ˜ฎ, harmonious ๐ŸŽต๐ŸŽต solution for 1 & all. ๐Ÿ™ ๐Ÿ‘ ๐Ÿค—

    .

  • EmmaS-NRAS, Beverley-NRAS

    For additional clarification:

    The continued outrageous claims at post ('Goodbye Andy.....sad to see you go' healthunlocked.com/nras/pos... ), directed not only at andyswarbs , but thinly veiled (& not so veiled) 'swipes' towards my posts (as well as myself personally ๐Ÿ˜ณ ), may perhaps be clarified a bit by this reply at bottom of post '2017 Food Revolution Summit: April 29 (Sat.) to May 7 (Sun.)': healthunlocked.com/nras/pos... ) which reads:

    .

    ๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘ ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚ Spot on, dard!

    Couldn't agree more. ๐Ÿ™

    (Thank you for kind-hearted laugh. ๐Ÿ˜„ ๐Ÿ™ )

    .

    ____

    Love "throwing peas against the wall" imageryโฃ ( azimo.com/en/blog/14-polish... )

    How true!! ๐Ÿ˜‚ ๐Ÿ˜†

    [Fortunately, those are not the folks this shared information is intended for. ๐Ÿ™ This info reaches ears ๐Ÿ‘‚๐Ÿ‘‚ of individuals who are genuinely interested & activey seeking ๐Ÿ•ต . ๐Ÿ™ ๐Ÿ‘ ๐Ÿ˜Œ ]

    .

    ____

    Yes indeed, "contra spem spero" for oh so many. ๐Ÿ™ ๐Ÿ˜” (This isn't for the cognitively dissonant ๐Ÿ˜– though. There's no intent to convince or persuade a soul ๐Ÿ‘ป โ€” utter waste of precious time โŒ›๏ธ.)

    .

    Tis merely for individuals who hear ๐Ÿ‘‚ & genuinely seek ๐Ÿ•ต . (They've been quietened ๐Ÿค ๐Ÿ˜ถ , yet connect/ reach out 'behind the scenes'. ๐Ÿ˜Œ ๐Ÿ™ )

    .

    Yes, indeed, many have echoed identical observations & have eventually left. . . . ๐Ÿƒ . . . ๐Ÿƒ . . . All their wisdom, insights, practical thoughts have left with them . ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿ˜ง (Our loss, not theirs . . . ๐Ÿ˜” ๐Ÿ˜ž )

    .

    ____

    Truth โš– 'outs' eventually. ๐Ÿค” ๐Ÿ™

    .

    Maybe, thinking along lines: thequotes.in/wp-content/upl... ? ๐Ÿค”

    .

    ____

    In meantime, all we can do (peacefully โ˜ฎ amongst ourselves) is attempt to share what's working for us & not be 'put off', intimidated, silenced, bullied away . . . ๐Ÿ˜Œ

    [Like minds find each other ๐Ÿ™‹๐Ÿ™‹ & help each other ๐Ÿ‘ฏ โ€” by-passing the surrounding, swirling, ceaseless, cognitive-dissonant discord. ๐ŸŒช๐ŸŒช๐ŸŒช )

    .

    ____

    We learn to 'pay no mind' & get on with the task at hand โ€” helping each other. ๐Ÿ™ ๐Ÿ‘

    [Sadly/ ironically, some of the best insights & most productive/ practical discussions take place off the forum โ€” never seen by other serious seekers. ๐Ÿ˜ฏ The very people concerned about publicly speaking/ sharing aloud on the forum, express some of the best tips, insights . . . ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿ™ƒ ๐Ÿ˜† (Yes, defeats the very purpose of having a public 'forum' for open discussion! ๐Ÿ˜‚ ๐Ÿ™ƒ ๐Ÿ˜‚ )]

    .

    ____

    Oh well . . . ยฏ\_(ใƒ„)_/ยฏ ๐Ÿ™ƒ ๐Ÿ˜‚

    We gain what others have lost & are deeply appreciative to those kind, lovely people who take the time (& care) to share in their quiet way . . . ๐Ÿ™ ๐Ÿ˜Œ

    We're fortunate ๐Ÿ€/ blessed ๐Ÿ‘ผ๐Ÿป to have found each other & to support each other . . . ๐Ÿ‘ ๐Ÿ™ ๐Ÿ˜Œ

    .

    ____

    [If interested in the topic further, this may shed a bit of light ๐Ÿ”ฆ : Anyone on the "Paddison Program Forum"?: healthunlocked.com/nras/pos...

    ("Cutting off nose ๐Ÿ‘ƒ to spite face ๐Ÿ˜ถ" is what comes to mind. ๐Ÿค” ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿ™ƒ ) We merely by-pass & carry on. That's all we can do. ๐Ÿ™ )

    .

    Keep well, dard. ๐Ÿ™ ๐Ÿ‘ Keep those lovely spirits up ๐Ÿ‘ป ๐Ÿ‘ป !!

    ๐Ÿ™ ๐Ÿ€ ๐ŸŒบ ๐ŸŒž

    .

  • Beverley-NRAS, EmmaS-NRAS,

    Again, to put 'into context' the most recent 'goings on' merely from my narrow/ limited perspective:

    Respectfully, I've no interest in communicating with anyone, who's not genuinely interested in the topics I'm interested in.

    Why individuals continue to 'enter/ barge in/ derail/ pile on' . . . posts in such an 'unfriendly, unsupportive, unkind' way (rudely, passive-aggressively, outright aggressively, with mean-spirited intent(?)) continues to be shocking, disruptive. ๐Ÿ˜ฑ

    (Particularly in posts that these individuals claim don't interest them or that they persist in claiming they're being 'pressured into doing something or trying something or being advertised at or being assaulted' by . . . ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿ˜ง )

    The outlandish (imagined(?) fabricated(?)) assertions persists & the unkind, unfriendly, unsupportive behaviour persists. ๐Ÿ˜จ

    Shocking & bizarre. ๐Ÿ˜ฑ ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿ™ƒ

    .

    _____

    Because we (those of us interested in discussing diet/ lifestyle (d/l) amongst ourselves) are driven 'underground' (sort of speak), it's unrealistic/ impossible to get out information to each individual in 1-to-1 communications โ€” thus, we 'post' (publicly) in order to our share information amongst ourselves. ๐Ÿ™

    How/ why this is continually 'misconstrued/ misinterpreted/ misperceived as 'promoting, selling, forcing, etc.' . is a perplexing, dumbfounding, never-ending mystery. ๐Ÿค” ๐Ÿค” ๐Ÿค”

    [We're deeply appreciative to NRAS allowing us โ€” so far โ€” to post/ communicate amongst ourselves. ๐Ÿ™ A heartfelt ๐Ÿ’“ thank you!! ๐Ÿ™ ๐Ÿ™ ๐Ÿ™ ๐Ÿ˜Œ ]

    I think that (the ability to post/ reply) is supposed to be the purpose of a forum? ๐Ÿค”

    That is, for people to share/ communicate with each other on topics of mutual interest? ๐Ÿค” ๐Ÿ‘

    .

    _____

    If NRAS doesn't wish us to share our d/l information amongst each other any longer (on the NRAS forum), kindly let us know. ๐Ÿ™

    Also, if it is acceptable for us to communicate our d/l information with each other on the 'public' part of the forum, is it possible for 'antagonistic/ strident' members to be made aware that the information we exchange amongst ourselves is not intended for them? ๐Ÿ™ (I/ we don't wish to upset, distress, annoy, irritate . . . a soul ๐Ÿ‘ป . ๐Ÿ™ )

    .

    They are not being pressured to 'do or try' anything.

    They are not being advertised to.

    They are not even being addressed. ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿ™ƒ

    .

    _____

    Why โ€” why โ€” just because something is posted on the NRAS forum do these (accusatory) individuals 'think' the post is being directed at them?! ๐Ÿ˜ณ

    It's not. ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿ™ƒ

    .

    They are not obligated to read anything.

    They are not being asked to read anything nor are they being forced to read anything. ๐Ÿ™

    [How this notion (of having to read posts) came about seems extremely odd, perplexing . . . ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿค” ๐Ÿ™ƒ ]

    .

    In fact, merely scrolling past anything that anyone posts (or replies to) that doesn't interests the 'disinterested/ offended' individual, resolves the problem instantly! ๐Ÿ‘

    .

    _____

    Why should anyone read a post or reply to a topic they're not interested in (or from a known commenter they 'dislike')? ๐Ÿค” ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿ˜ฏ

    Simply scrolling past (ignoring) the content of the post/ reply is a simple, direct solution to the 'perceived difficulty'. ๐Ÿ™ ๐Ÿ‘

    Can that simple message be conveyed to members who seem to 'whip themselves into upset' over information that is not meant/ intended for them? ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿค”

    I wish no one would feel obligated/ forced to read something that doesn't interest them โ€” especially if they're incorrectly 'perceiving/ imagining' they're being pressured to try something or being sold something . . . ๐Ÿ™

    Truly, it's as simple as by-passing/ ignoring posts (or people) that are of no interest . . . ๐Ÿ™

    .

    _____

    Speaking solely for myself, I've no interest in interacting, communicating, arguing, tussling . . . with anyone who's not interested in calmly, reasonably, genuinely interested in sharing d/l information & experiences . . . ๐Ÿ™

    [I'm not being rude, disrespectful, hostile or whatever negativity/ unpleasantness individuals can mistakenly mis-read into ('project onto') my words . . . ]

    I respectfully by-pass hostile, aggressive, accusations from angry, outraged, & at times hate-filled commenters โ€” without adding 'fuel to the fire' โ€” without uttering a peep. . . ๐Ÿฅ ๐Ÿ™

    Yet, these individuals who make outrageous, hostile, inflammatory accusations appear to initiate, instigate, perpetuate 'strife/ discord' โ€” (intentionally?) drumming up divisiveness, 'piling on', etc. โ€” simply because those of us interested in discussing d/l amongst ourselves are talking about it on the forum. ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿ™ƒ

    (That is merely my observation/ assessment/ interpretation of what I witness going on to this day. ๐Ÿ˜ณ )

    .

    _____

    Beverley-NRAS, EmmaS-NRAS, please, kindly inform me, if I'm not, allowed to continue sharing d/l information on the NRAS forum. ๐Ÿ™

    If I am allowed to continue posting/replying, I respectfully request:

    Can anything be done to cease โ€” ONCE & FOR ALLโ€” the relentless hostility, accusations, etc. towards those of us who share d/l info? ๐Ÿค”

    .

    It's not only ugly, rude, hurtful, hateful . . . to those of us trying to commune/ share in peace โ˜ฎ , it reflects poorly on the NRAS forum & its members. ๐Ÿ™

    [As you well know (better than anyone), the forum reaches individual RAers/ Autoimmuners globally โ€” worldwide. ๐ŸŒ ๐ŸŒ ๐ŸŒŽ Please, please, kindly, do not allow vocal, unrestrained, untempered comments/ individuals to continue to (unwittingly) convey an unpleasant impression of the forum. ๐Ÿ™ ๐Ÿ™ (Hoping to no longer receive 'negative feedback' about the forum from folks concerned by, 'put off' by what they witness going on here. ๐Ÿ™ ) This is a spot for us to try to meet/ share peacefully โ˜ฎ โ€” to unite, to work toward a common goal. Instead it drives us (enough of us) away โ€” back into silence ๐Ÿค , isolation ๐Ÿ˜ž โ€” because of the unpleasant 'goings on'. ๐Ÿ™ ]

    .

    Kindly, kindly, do something about this, NRAS. ๐Ÿ™ ๐Ÿ™ ๐Ÿ™

    .

    _____

    We are indeed real people, with real feelings, real experiences we're trying to peacefully โ˜ฎ share amongst each other.

    We've endured outrageous, outlandish accusations & behaviours repeatedly โ€” endlessly. ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿ˜” ๐Ÿ˜ž

    [How 1 human being can speak to another human being (especially a fellow autoimmuner who's shared the same experiences/ horrors . . . ) in such a mean-spirited, rude, hateful, accusatory manner is shocking, dumbfounding, unbelievableโ€ผ๏ธ ๐Ÿ˜ณ I can't imagine going up to any fellow sufferer on this forum โ€” face-to-face โ€” & repeating back to them what has been said to me & others (directly & indirectly) on this forumโ€ผ๏ธ ๐Ÿ˜ฑ ]

    Shameful, disgraceful . . . ๐Ÿ˜”

    Kindly, kindly, put an end to it โ€” once & for all. ๐Ÿ™

    .

    _____

    Again, to reiterate to be unmistakably clear:

    ๐Ÿ™ I've no interest in communicating with anyone who's not sincerely interest in d/l (or any other topics I broach) . . .

    ๐Ÿ™ In fact, I wish those individuals would kindly by-pass every post/ reply that bears the moniker 'Kai--'.

    ๐Ÿ™ I do not promote anything.

    ๐Ÿ™ I do not get paid by or work for anyone.

    ๐Ÿ™ I speak from my experience & share d/l information that's helped me along the way.

    ๐Ÿ™ I post/ share information from questions others have asked me.

    ๐Ÿ™ I've been trying to restore over a year's worth of (obliterated) research/ information, etc. I'd posted on this forum over a year ago.

    .

    This is the clearest clarification I can share with you. ๐Ÿ™

    I don't know how to be any clearer than this. ๐Ÿ™

    .

    _____

    I've stated, re-stated, re-re-stated this from day 1 in innumerable communications with NRAS staff, as well as in innumerable posts/ replies . . . I really don't understand โ€” I'm not grasping โ€” WHY these ridiculous, outrageous, fabricated, drummed up hostilities have been allowed to continue on for well over a year (ever since I've been participating on this forum). ๐Ÿ˜ณ ๐Ÿ˜ฏ

    It's truly unbelievable. ๐Ÿ˜ฎ

    Why these hostilities, aggressiveness continue on for over a year is profoundly troubling. ๐Ÿ˜”

    I hope you can find time to address & resolve this on-going 'unpleasantness' once & for all. ๐Ÿ™

    If those of us who wish to speak about d/l amongst ourselves are not allowed to do so โ€” in peace โ˜ฎ โ€” kindly inform us.

    .

    ๐Ÿ™ ๐Ÿ€ ๐ŸŒบ ๐ŸŒž

    .

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