Below are 2 segments from post "Great little article on potential dangers of touting a 'cure' for RA" ( healthunlocked.com/ra-warri... ) that might help place dietary/ lifestyle (d/l) approaches 'into context/ perspective' as far as overall RA/ autoimmune 'treatment' is considered.
[Merely my layman's (non-medical, non-scientific) opinion/ perspective.]
______
Please pardon length. 🙏
These complex, nuanced topics appear to be fraught with continual misunderstandings & misperceptions, thus taking a bit of 'yammering' 🗣 💬 💬 to try to clarify.
[Apologies. Lack facility to encapsulate topic into snappy 'sound-bites'. 🙏 ]
Would deeply appreciate anyone grasping what I'm stumblingly, bumblingly trying to convey, to say it much more succinctly. 🙏 (Thank you in advance for any 'translations' you can provide. Much appreciated. 🙏 )
[Where's our long-gone 'Babel Fish' Ade_Bell to translate?! ☺️ 🤔 Miss you, dude. 😌 Hope you're doing well. 🙏 ]
7️⃣2️⃣ Oats as Cooked Oatmeal or Fermented Overnight. Rolled, Steel Cut, or Whole Groat. Prebiotic, Probiotic, not Idiotic via Dr. Richard Matthews.: healthunlocked.com/cure-art...
5️⃣6️⃣ Osteoarthritis: Prevented with Diet & Exercise? University of Surrey (U.K.) study in 'Nature Reviews Rheumatology': healthunlocked.com/ra-warri...
4️⃣3️⃣ "How U.S. Health Care Became Big Business": Medical Journalist, Dr. Elisabeth Rosenthal talks with NPR's Terry Gross: healthunlocked.com/ra-warri...
3️⃣8️⃣ "A Kitchen Fairy Tale" by Iida, How She Healed Herself with a Plant-Based Diet (according to 'Tribe Magazine'): healthunlocked.com/nras/pos...
3️⃣7️⃣ Can I Avoid RA Drugs or Should I Go On Drugs? 'Paddison Program' FAQ Opinion; Also: Methotrexate Explanation & References: healthunlocked.com/nras/pos...
2️⃣2️⃣ Roxana, 'The Sofia Vergara of Peru' (& now 'The States'), Improves Her Hashimoto's (Hypothyroid) & Rheumatoid Arthritis (RA): healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
2️⃣ FREE 3-Part 'Serology (RF, ACPA, Anti-CCP, ANAs, ANCA) in Rheumatology' Series from Dr. Robert Coughlan's 'Rheumatology Toolbox': healthunlocked.com/nras/pos...
From my understanding of the 'Paddison Program' (PP):
🔵 SOME of us improve to a point where we no longer require meds & maintain wellness via dietary/ lifestyle means.
Some may consider this 'cure', some 'long-term remission', or some use other words . . .
Whatever 'terminology' we wish to use, we continue working with our rheumatologist to be monitored to ensure we're safe & there's no further disease progression.
This is all done in conjunction with our rheumatologist's guidance/ approval.
.
🔵 Some of us improve to a point where our meds are reduced & we're able to maintain wellness via dietary/ lifestyle means along with our reduced meds. This, too, is all done under our rheumatologist's guidance/ approval.
.
🔵 And, for some, the process does not work.
.
All of this is stated up-front.
Anyone researching & actually reading & following PP is well aware of this.
.
_______
This is merely my layman's (non-medical/ non-scientific) understanding of the process:
Just as with med-only approaches, dietary/ lifestyle + med approaches have varying results: some improve, some no difference, some worsen.
Unfortunately, no one -- not even our rheumatologist -- can predict the outcome for each of us -- whether we choose to use meds alone, or meds in conjunction with dietary/ lifestyle changes.
It's ALL 'trial & error' just like a med-only approach -- all trial & error self-experimentation.
.
_______
At post: 13 Bite-Size Thoughts for Autoimmuners -- Newly Diagnosed (or Not) ( healthunlocked.com/ra-warri... ) there are 2 videos of 2 young ladies who've each followed their own path; and, each have touched on PP at some point along their journey.
People who've time to watch & listen to the videos, may place such programs as PP -- in its 'proper context':
• nor mis-labeling: cure-all/ panacea/ overnight miracle . . .
but merely identifying it as yet ANOTHER tool in managing a lifetime autoimmune disease/ RA.
.
And, depending upon the results of the individual implementing the PP process:
• some claim 'fake',
• some claim 'cure',
• and, some claim 'improvement' -- even 'remarkable improvement', which is 'miraculous' for them.
.
_______
Merely my opinion:
🔴 It's wise for anyone choosing to implement any approaches (meds, diets, lifestyles etc.) to research & go in with eyes wide open -- to read the source material with calm, clear, level headedness -- not with rose-colored glasses of unrealistic expectations.
🔴 It's foolish for anyone choosing to implement any approaches (meds, diets, lifestyles etc.) to not research & to have their eyes closed -- to not read the source material with calm, clear, level headedness -- & with rose-colored glasses of unrealistic expectations.
In similar vein, so much of this seems to boil down to 'Python-esque' truths. 🤔 🙃 As Graham Chapman (as 'Brian') in "Life of Brian" implores us to . . . think for ourselves, as we're all individuals . . . : m.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjz16...
.
(Perhaps apropos for an awful lot of us . . . 🙃 😂 😉 )
Yes, the distinction in markers should be noted & treated accordingly. 👍
No argument here. 👍
_____
.
We can't control anyone's fear-driven 'wishful thinking' or 'denial of reality' -- in whatever mental state they're in -- in the early, middle, or advanced stages of disease.
What is clearly written, clearly stated -- & re-stated -- cannot be blamed for another's 'misunderstanding'.
Neither can fear nor confusion be used as an excuse for 'misunderstanding' or exercising faulty/ poor judgement.
I fully understand & take your point, Lucy, & agree with it up to a point. Your observations are well-made & well taken. You've no disagreement from me. I strongly believe you come from a place of valid experience, sound judgement, & good intention. 👍
I hope those who read this, note the markers of distinction & work with their rheumatologists.
_____
.
For clarity -- no one is advising (or has advised) to 'go med-free'.
We each carefully weigh the pros & cons of various treatments/ approaches for ourselves (our unique conditions) & confer with our physicians/ rheumatologists & loved ones in deciding how we wish to proceed. We have a multitude of facts & options set out before us & use our own head & heart to ultimately decide what is best for us -- in our 'window of opportunity'.
_____
.
To minimise misunderstanding & faulty judgement I encourage 'trusted loved ones' to sit down & learn along with the sufferer/ patient & attend the rheum appointments as well -- to learn, understand, review, & thoroughly discuss treatment options.
This 2nd, 3rd . . . set of eyes (& brains) provide a 'checks & balance' ⚖ -- to help us not 'misunderstand or misperceive' information if our minds are clouded with fear, confusion -- or simply swimming in 'brain fog'.
_____
.
Keeping in mind all that you've just noted, Lucy, I think it's also worth noting the following (to keep a 'larger picture' in context/ in perspective):
.
The fact that scheduling a rheum appointment can take MONTHS before an initial visit (never mind follow-up visits) means -- learning & implementing diet/ lifestyle (d/l) techniques in those intervening months is an immediate (no cost) 1st step in attempting to slow down (reverse?) disease progression -- reduce (eliminate?): inflammation, swelling, pain, etc..
And, per usual -- it works for each individual to varying degrees . . .
_____
.
Whatever that dietary approach [Dr. Irwin Lim's 'BJC Health' dietary approach ( bjchealth.com.au/diet ; shop.bjchealth.com.au ) or Sarah Ballentyne's AIP approach ( thepaleomom.com/start-here/... ) or Clint Paddison's d/l approach, etc..)] that we each deem useful, doable, appropriate for ourselves -- is 'something' rather than 'nothing'.
That is, "doing something is better than doing nothing" -- even if it's merely minimising/ eliminating the commonly agreed upon inflammatory foods & life stressors/ triggers. 👍
_____
.
Parenthetical Aside:
Merely making pre-diagnosed, newly diagnosed -- even long-term diagnosed people aware of what they're putting in their mouths, the movements they do (or don't do) , & the 'thoughts' they think, etc. -- as having impact on their disease progression & overall well being, is a hurdle.
Some -- yes some -- believe there's ZERO, 0️⃣, 🅾, ⭕️ connection & will (emphatically, gleefully, . . .) argue that point to the death. ⚰ ⚱
😳 😱 🙃
Yes, according to their life experience the aforementioned (diet, movement, thoughts/ attitude, etc.) have nothing, NOTHING whatsoever to do with their 'overall well being' (never mind their disease). 😳
[Yes, they live & breathe amongst us, & appear to 'actively discourage' those curious about d/l from pursuing/ researching it as a legitimate means of improving/ healing (in conjunction with meds). ]
[I'd noted a few 'satirical bits', about some of the more outrageous (egregious) 'characters' I've encountered on forums (over time) who've made some pretty 'outrageous' claims/ accusations. Think you might get a kick out of the mini-satirical blurbs. Just let me know, & I'll forward them on to you. Might provide a good-natured, hearty laugh -- in Pythonesque fashion. 😂 🙃 😆 ]
_____
.
Back on topic:
Some pre-diagnosed or newly diagnosed RAers/Autoimmuners have no awareness of d/l approaches to influence the course of disease progression. Their primary care (family/ gp ) physicians all to frequently 'appear to be' unaware of the food/ gut/ brain/ autoimmune connection -- & even (some) rheumatologists (in this day & age) are still unaware or insist/ persist "diet has no effect". 😳 😱
(Yes, they, too, 'live & breathe' amongst us 😆 😂 🙃 & gawd only knows how many sufferers they've 'put off' trying to help themselves -- improve their conditions -- via d/l techniques!!! 😳 😱 )
_____
.
Of course, there are physicians & rheumatologist who 'see' the connection -- yet, if you're one of the unlucky patients who's saddled with 'a d/l denier' [like a 'holocaust denier' 😳 🙃 or a cigarette-smoking-is-bad-for-you denier ('back in the day')] then you're not likely going to hear about d/l techniques unless you start poking around 'the Internet' & talking to actual people using these techniques.
You're merely going to follow the protocol that your beloved, trusted, respected, med-only trained physician is going to recommend to you because you may be oblivious to the fact that you can incorporate d/l changes (along with meds) as part of 'your personal regime'.
_____
.
This is the sad (scary?) state of medicine as practiced in many traditional institutions (globally?) amongst traditional approved/ sanctioned protocols implemented by the physicians most of us have access to -- in this day & age.
Those who can afford better health care, 'get better'.
And, the rest of us scramble to try to 'fit together the pieces of the puzzle' for ourselves when the protocols our (beloved, trusted, respected) physicians/ rheums recommend become ineffective or cease working altogether.
[That is the daily reality for some of us who've scrupulously 'followed doctors orders'.]
_____
.
It's all horrifically (nightmarishly 👹 👺 ♿️ ) funny & not funny!! 😂 😭
A sobering reality many of us live through.
[Tis the high (& low) comedy & drama 🎭 of our current medical care treatment in chronic, life-long autoimmune disease.]
Implementing a d/l approach in the intervening months -- before the meds are prescribed -- I'd venture to guess for the MAJORITY of sufferers is "no harm, no foul."
We are very much in agreement, Lucy. 🙏 👍
_____
.
Many of us continue to work through the d/l nuances (learning, implementing, 'trial & error' self-testing throughout the months/ years) -- under our rheums watchful eye -- & improve along the way.
We're slowing down/ halting/ reversing the 'ebb & flow' trajectory of disease. We're stabilising, improving, healing -- not worsening.
That in itself is a blessed relief. 🙏
_____
.
We're 'on the same page', Lucy.
There's no disagreement. 🙏
Yes, absolutely -- the distinction in markers should be noted & treated accordingly. 👍
Keep well, dear lady, keep well.
Wishing you improvement, health, & happiness along your RA/ autoimmune journey. 🙏 🍀 🌺 🌞
For dietary/ lifestyle (d/l) discussions from a variety of perspectives, posts you may like to consider:
.
• Talking to NRAS about diet: healthunlocked.com/nras/pos... [Highly recommend taking time to read through the 70 + comments for anyone seriously considering implementing a d/l approach (along with their meds). 👍 Found andyswarbs last comment (at bottom of page) insightful/ profound. 🤔 😌 ]
.
• For All Autoimmuner's: FREE 7-Part Documentary with Tom O'Bryan:
healthunlocked.com/nras/pos... [See 'replies' for clarifications about d/l approaches in relation to 'leaky gut theory', etc.]
Additional dietary/ lifestyle (d/l) discussions from a variety of perspectives that may be of interest:
.
• Feeling sorry for people here: healthunlocked.com/nras/pos... [Again, highly recommend taking time to read through 120+ comments for anyone seriously considering implementing a d/l approach (along with their meds). 👍 🤔 😌 ]
.
• A new day, let's see what we have learnt: healthunlocked.com/nras/pos... [This 'follow-up' post (& its 50+ replies) are equally as interesting/ insightful.]
A 'truth' perhaps worthy of a repeat: John Godfrey Saxe "The Blind Men and the Elephant " Poem animation Indian parable: m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y25qT...
.
.
And, a version for our 🤖 friends, who like to 'robotically' (unthinkingly, unquestioningly) 'repeat' things ad nauseum: poemhunter.com/poem/the-bli... [The voice is just too funny. Can't help but pass along for the sheer delight of a good giggle. 😄 😄 😄 ]
(Reminded me of John Godfrey Saxe (above) reading the ‘ "The Blind Men and the Elephant " Poem animation Indian parable’. Perhaps it might bring you a smile ☺️ & a chuckle 😁 while under your new ‘SAD’ lamp 💡🔆.
"He [D. Suzuki] was in his 90s. He started to lecture in Switzerland that I heard in Ascona. He stood up with his hands on his side, and he said:
.
'God against man, man against God, man against nature, nature against man, nature against God, God against nature. Very funny religion.' "
.
[So far, haven't been able to find the video of JC saying this. If you 'see/ hear' him saying it (the manner in which he smilingly says it with deep understanding) may well bring a smile of recognition to you. ☺️ Truly lovely, joyous . . . 🤗 ]
Parallels/ reflects the various (conflicting?) 'philosophical' perspectives voiced within the posts — with a dash of good humour, cheer, insight. ☺️
If you're interested in lifestyle/ dietary approaches tailored to RA/ Autoimmune healing & pain relief, additional thoughts for consideration are at "Guide for Rheumatologists" V 1.5.6 (for 'Paddison Program'-ers): healthunlocked.com/ra-warri...
If you scroll downward on page, you'll see: Without Wings (The Manx Autoimmune Arthritis Trust) — Exclusive Interview: Clint Paddison (7/17/2017) ( withoutwings.weebly.com/new... ). Text added (in 4 segments) along with reference links for easy referral. 🙏 🍀 🌺 🌞
. 4:39 min. • EPISODE 1 — Intro to Sumit Bose, Clint Paddison, & the Paddison Program
. 4:36 min. • EPISODE 2 — 1st day of PP
. 1:54 min. • EPISODE 3 — 2nd day of PP
. 4:05 min. • EPISODE 4 — What is RA?
. 2:58 min. • EPISODE 5 — 3rd day of PP
. 5:52 min. • EPISODE 6 — End of Week 1 of PP & First 12 Days of PP
26:15 min. • EPISODE 7 — Unvarnished Truths from Dr. John McDougall
————————————————————————————
.
.
Finding Sumit Bose's depiction of early phases of the PP process spot on!! ☺️ 👍
Refreshing to see accuracy/ preciseness with which he explains a dietary/ lifestyle (d/l) process (after reading so many misconceptions), as well as his generously showing his unvarnished personal experience, day by day. 🤗
[Many thanks to SB. 🙏 😌 His truthfulness/ honesty is sincerely appreciated by those of us who are also on a d/l journey & wish to learn from (& share with) each other. 👍 ]
.
🙏 🍀 🌺 🌞
.
[SB's videos & (my) jotted notes: Journalist Sumit Bose, Another RA-er Who's Documenting His RA Journey: healthunlocked.com/cure-art... ]
are 2 earlier vloggers who've documented their d/l journeys as well. 👍👍
Have also found both Josefine & Rick to be accurate, truthful, honest in their vlogging. 🙏 😌
They, too, convey the daily reality of d/l experiences & the uniqueness of each of our journeys.
They've been deeply personal inspirations for me ☺️ , wonderful sources of additional quality, sensible tips, & shared thoughts. 😌 🤗 (Much, much appreciated. 🙏 😌 )
Catching Up with 'Healing Josefine' -- Over 2 Years & 80+ Vlogs may be of interest to sincere seekers: healthunlocked.com/nras/pos...
🔔 Can I Avoid RA Drugs or Should I Go On Drugs? 'Paddison Program' FAQ Opinion; Also: Methotrexate Explanation & References: healthunlocked.com/nras/pos...
.
.
My understanding is it's not wise to even begin contemplating reducing meds 💉 💊 until:
• Our inflammatory 🔥 markers are down ⬇️ significantly over a sustained period of time (months on end 🗓 🗓 🗓 . . . ) as well as other indicators.
• Looking at the 'big picture' 🖼 (a multitude of factors), our rheum. 👩⚕️👨⚕️ assess it's now 'safe' to attempt a reduction — only under their guidance 👩⚕️👨⚕️ & continual monitoring 📈📉 .
• And, the reduction is only advised/ allowed in tiny/ small increments 📶 over an extended period of time months 🗓 🗓 🗓 . . . / year(?) — all the while under our rheum's 👩⚕️👨⚕️ watchful eye 👁
• And, of course, we are CONTINUALLY IMPLEMENTING TECHNIQUES to keep inflammation down & disease progression 'at bay'.
.
.
It's a continual, life-long 'ebb & flow 〰〰 process' —
NOT 🚫 an 'off 🌚/ on 🌝 switch'.
.
.
Bears repeating: A continual, life-long 'ebb & flow 〰〰 process' — NOT an 'off / on switch'.
.
[Merely my layman's understanding of med-reduction process. 😌 🙏 ]
Wishing you the very best, hope-always316. 🙏 🌺 🍀 🌞
.
.
________________________________________________
________________________________________________
.
.
Wonderful 🤗 . . . relieved to hear. 😌 👍
.
If this helps at all (merely for consideration):
👉 In context, what's considered "within normal range" may not be considered 'good enough' for beginning reduction (in some rheums. 👩⚕️ 👨⚕️ eyes). 😳 🤔
👉 Dipping below 'normal/ standard/ typical range' range may be required. 🤔
👉 As well as reducing in even smaller increments — over a longer period of time — before attempting to wean off totally. 🤔
👉 As well has having a long-term 'maintenance' process/ strategy in place. 🤔
.
Yes, yes, early days'n all. 😌 🙏
Perhaps putting it 'in context' (in framework) as a 'trial run' — an 'experiential learning process' that'll serve you well down road. 🤔 👍
Yes, yes, accepting (patiently, gently) glitches & hiccups during trial 'n error runs as being 'normal/ typical' is sensible approach/ attitude. 😌 🙏
[No need for any blame 😧 , shame 😔 , or 'whatever' 🙃 😬 🤡 .]
It's merely part 'n parcel of the typical/ normal experiential (experimental) self-learning 🤓 process that you go through hand in hand 🤝 with your rheum. 👩⚕️ .
.
🤓 🤝 👩⚕️
.
You both figure it out 'as you go'.
.
As long as you continue'trying' to help yourself, 'trying' to figure out what works for you, 'trying' to 'connect the dots' for your situation, you're in good stead, hope-always316. 😌 🙏
.
⚫️ <—> ⚫️ <—> 🤔 <—> 🤔
.
.
________________________________________________
________________________________________________
.
.
Good to hear update, hope-always316. 😌 👍
Thank you kindly for keeping us abreast. 🙏
If you're ever interested in attempting a 'safe' reduction process in future — provided your body has achieved a sustained state of improvement/ healing & your rheum. believes it's safe/ appropriate for you to reduce meds at that time — Julia's 👩 experience may come in handy:
There's also a couple other gals (👩 Lor & 👩 Debbie) who may interest you over at seneca's post: Mtx: when is "brain fog" serious: healthunlocked.com/nras/pos...
• Can I Avoid RA Drugs or Should I Go On Drugs? 'Paddison Program' FAQ Opinion; Also: Methotrexate Explanation & References: healthunlocked.com/nras/pos...
As an aside, this bit on sleep may be of interest: Quality Deep Sleep: Physical/ Mental Restoration & Improving Health: healthunlocked.com/cure-art...
.
.
________________________________________________
________________________________________________
.
.
Oh no. . . . 😳 😯
😂 🙃 🤣
Apologies for misunderstanding, seneca. 🙏
PP does NOT advocate 'popping off' meds nor going 'med-free'. 😯
Full stop. 🛑
.
.
Reducing or 'weaning off' meds 💉 💊 , is only done for individuals under their rheumatologist 👩⚕️ recommendation (& guidance 👨⚕️ ) after it's determined they no longer require medication.
[If you read my explanation to hope-always316 over at post, 'Stopped MTX and...' ( healthunlocked.com/nras/pos...... ), this 'on-going' process may become a bit clearer 👓 👀 .]
Hope this helps. 🙏
.
.
________________________________________________
________________________________________________
.
.
Perhaps it bears repeating, as this misperception has unfortunately been oft repeated 🗣 💬 🗣 💬 🗣 💬 on forums — no matter how many times it's been clarified over the year(s) 😳 😄 😆 :
.
Reducing or 'weaning off' meds 💉 💊 , is ONLY done for individuals under their rheumatologist 👩⚕️ recommendation (& watchful 👀 guidance 👨⚕️ ) AFTER it's determined that it's 'safe' for them to attempt a med-reducing process.
(Incremental step 👣 by incremental step 👣 — inching 📏 along at snail's pace 🐌 . . . 🐌 . . . Backtracking if needed & inching forward if/as indicated . . . in a continuous cycle ♻️ ♻️ ♻️ . . . )
ONLY individuals for whom the reduction process 'is working' actually 'totally' wean off their particular meds because they no longer REQUIRE medication.*
.
.
Anyone who unadvisedly 'pops off' their meds, unilaterally decides to go 'med-free', or 'weans off' meds without their rhuem's approval/ guidance, or goes too quickly, or inappropriately (incorrectly) is "NOT following PP". 😳 🤔
(This is my 'layman's' (non-science, non-medical) understanding of PP process. 😌 )
.
.
Listening/ reading PP's actual podcasts, transcripts, text 'in context' would readily clarify 👓 this misunderstanding.
I'm very sorry 😔 you've been under a mis-impression, seneca. 🙏
Wishing you (& your beloved sister 👩❤️👩 ) the very best, seneca. 😌 Please take good care. 🙏 🍀 🌺 🌞
.
.
On a humorous/ reflective note (with a good-natured wink 'n a smile 😉 ) :
.
It's best (wiser) when we get our info straight from 'the horse's mouth' 💬🐴 rather than (getting distorted/ bogus info from) the horse's 🌙🌙.
.
😳 🙃 😬
.
Let's put a 'final nail in the coffin' of this falsehood once & for all . . . ⚰️ 🔨
.
😂 🙃 🤣
.
.
________________________________________________
________________________________________________
.
.
* For anyone genuinely interested in understanding the actual PP med-reduction process, andyswarbs ' experience ( healthunlocked.com/nras/pos... ) is an actual, accurate point of reference (realistic, substantive) from a gentleman who's actually followed the process. 👍
.
Again, kindly consider 🤔 who you're hearing 👂 'experiences' from:
👉 Experiences from horses' mouths 💬🐴 . . 💬🐴 . . 💬🐴 . . ('actual' PP-ers who understand or 'lived through'/ 'done' the actual process).
👉 Or, 2nd-, 3rd-, or 4th-hand hearsay 😏 from people who've little to no understanding of 😳 (or experience with) the actual PP process.
.
.
Kindly take time to consider (reflect on):
. . . 🤔 What's accurate & what's inaccurate?
. . . 🤔 What's true ✔️ & what's false ✖️ ?
.
Only you 😊 👈 can assess ⚖️ for yourself 'what makes sense' by listening 👂 to what's 'actually' said (in context) & rather than what someone else 'claims' was said ('out of context').**
Use your own ears 👂👂 , eyes 👁 👁 , & mind 🙇♀️ — not someone else's "misinterpretation" 🙅 , "distortion" 🤥 , "misunderstanding" 🤷♀️ .
Content on HealthUnlocked does not replace the relationship between you and doctors or other healthcare professionals nor the advice you receive from them.
Never delay seeking advice or dialling emergency services because of something that you have read on HealthUnlocked.
