Paddison Program (PP): Clinical Trial, Rheumatologist Contacting Clint Paddison ( info@paddisonprogram.com ), 'Guide for Rheumatologists', TEDtalk, etc.
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This post, RA. RA drugs and Statins. Start a new post to save a lot of scrolling down😃 ( healthunlocked.com/nras/pos... ), was catalyst for seeking PP 'data release/ clinical trial' info.
(References from that post are placed below for 'easy reference/ viewing'.)
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The transcript text (from picture above) is noted below along with accompanying links 🔗 for easy reference.
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🙏 🍀 🌺 🌞
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Written by
Kai--
To view profiles and participate in discussions please or .
7️⃣2️⃣ Oats as Cooked Oatmeal or Fermented Overnight. Rolled, Steel Cut, or Whole Groat. Prebiotic, Probiotic, not Idiotic via Dr. Richard Matthews.: healthunlocked.com/cure-art...
5️⃣6️⃣ Osteoarthritis: Prevented with Diet & Exercise? University of Surrey (U.K.) study in 'Nature Reviews Rheumatology': healthunlocked.com/ra-warri...
4️⃣3️⃣ "How U.S. Health Care Became Big Business": Medical Journalist, Dr. Elisabeth Rosenthal talks with NPR's Terry Gross: healthunlocked.com/ra-warri...
3️⃣8️⃣ "A Kitchen Fairy Tale" by Iida, How She Healed Herself with a Plant-Based Diet (according to 'Tribe Magazine'): healthunlocked.com/nras/pos...
3️⃣7️⃣ Can I Avoid RA Drugs or Should I Go On Drugs? 'Paddison Program' FAQ Opinion; Also: Methotrexate Explanation & References: healthunlocked.com/nras/pos...
2️⃣2️⃣ Roxana, 'The Sofia Vergara of Peru' (& now 'The States'), Improves Her Hashimoto's (Hypothyroid) & Rheumatoid Arthritis (RA): healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
2️⃣ FREE 3-Part 'Serology (RF, ACPA, Anti-CCP, ANAs, ANCA) in Rheumatology' Series from Dr. Robert Coughlan's 'Rheumatology Toolbox': healthunlocked.com/nras/pos...
Think this addresses concerns about 'Paddison Program' data release/ clinical trials, etc.:
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From transcript"Ruben turns his life around with the Paddison Program for RA" ( paddisonprogram.com/ruben-t... ) / video minute 16:18:
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" . . . Clint: Go ahead and tell her the same thing.
What I'm about to say applies to anyone listening or watching our video.
If your rheumatologist wants to speak with me then I will personally have a conversation with them on Skype or phone and they can contact me and I will pick up the phone and I will spend as long as they want over the phone talking about this.
I know that not many rheumatologist will probably accept that invitation because they would consider that to be insulting to their own intelligence perhaps or maybe they're shut down to ideas that aren't presented to them at the conferences that they pay a lot of money to attend every year or the scientific papers that they read maybe aren't addressing this as the primary path forward.
However what I want you to do is to pass on that invitation and anyone please pass the invitation.
I can be contacted.
My team pick up my emails that info@paddisonprogram.com.
So whenever there's something that needs my attention it comes to me and I will happily follow up on that in the interim what we can do is we can direct them to my TED talk which was the talk that you mentioned in your earlier and also I have the Guide for Rheumatologists and I'll put the download link on the show notes of this episode so anyone who's listening to this can jump onto our website, grab the guide for rheumatologist and it includes all of the scientific studies that show the link between not just the gut and how it interacts with the immune system and gut bacteria and how they influence the decisions that our gut lining has as to what should be passed through the gut wall and what should be withheld into the intestine but also all the studies that have been done with people following a diet that's somewhat similar to what I recommend.
Low fat plant based diet and how the tremendous improvements that they have made.
So when people say to me why don't you go ahead and do a clinical trial.
Well yes we have that in the pipelines but it's a lot of money to do and it's very hard to organize and requires a collaboration that requires me to hire staff to become research assistants and all of this work that needs to be done.
And in the interim, I can present a very very comprehensive compilation in a document called The Guide for Rheumatologist that people can read and say well there you go look there's the there's overwhelming evidence here.
Do we really need Clint to run this clinical trial.
And yes I will do it because I think that that loop needs to be closed.
But in the meantime we're kind of like 90 percent there with this document that I already have put together. . . . "
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Video minute 16:18: "Ruben turns his life around with the Paddison Program for RA":
🔔 Can I Avoid RA Drugs or Should I Go On Drugs? 'Paddison Program' FAQ Opinion; Also: Methotrexate Explanation & References: healthunlocked.com/nras/pos...
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My understanding is it's not wise to even begin contemplating reducing meds 💉 💊 until:
• Our inflammatory 🔥 markers are down ⬇️ significantly over a sustained period of time (months on end 🗓 🗓 🗓 . . . ) as well as other indicators.
• Looking at the 'big picture' 🖼 (a multitude of factors), our rheum. 👩⚕️👨⚕️ assess it's now 'safe' to attempt a reduction — only under their guidance 👩⚕️👨⚕️ & continual monitoring 📈📉 .
• And, the reduction is only advised/ allowed in tiny/ small increments 📶 over an extended period of time months 🗓 🗓 🗓 . . . / year(?) — all the while under our rheum's 👩⚕️👨⚕️ watchful eye 👁
• And, of course, we are CONTINUALLY IMPLEMENTING TECHNIQUES to keep inflammation down & disease progression 'at bay'.
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It's a continual, life-long 'ebb & flow 〰〰 process' —
NOT 🚫 an 'off 🌚/ on 🌝 switch'.
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Bears repeating: A continual, life-long 'ebb & flow 〰〰 process' — NOT an 'off / on switch'.
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[Merely my layman's understanding of med-reduction process. 😌 🙏 ]
Wishing you the very best, hope-always316. 🙏 🌺 🍀 🌞
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Wonderful 🤗 . . . relieved to hear. 😌 👍
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If this helps at all (merely for consideration):
👉 In context, what's considered "within normal range" may not be considered 'good enough' for beginning reduction (in some rheums. 👩⚕️ 👨⚕️ eyes). 😳 🤔
👉 Dipping below 'normal/ standard/ typical range' range may be required. 🤔
👉 As well as reducing in even smaller increments — over a longer period of time — before attempting to wean off totally. 🤔
👉 As well has having a long-term 'maintenance' process/ strategy in place. 🤔
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Yes, yes, early days'n all. 😌 🙏
Perhaps putting it 'in context' (in framework) as a 'trial run' — an 'experiential learning process' that'll serve you well down road. 🤔 👍
Yes, yes, accepting (patiently, gently) glitches & hiccups during trial 'n error runs as being 'normal/ typical' is sensible approach/ attitude. 😌 🙏
[No need for any blame 😧 , shame 😔 , or 'whatever' 🙃 😬 🤡 .]
It's merely part 'n parcel of the typical/ normal experiential (experimental) self-learning 🤓 process that you go through hand in hand 🤝 with your rheum. 👩⚕️ .
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🤓 🤝 👩⚕️
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You both figure it out 'as you go'.
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As long as you continue'trying' to help yourself, 'trying' to figure out what works for you, 'trying' to 'connect the dots' for your situation, you're in good stead, hope-always316. 😌 🙏
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⚫️ <—> ⚫️ <—> 🤔 <—> 🤔
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Good to hear update, hope-always316. 😌 👍
Thank you kindly for keeping us abreast. 🙏
If you're ever interested in attempting a 'safe' reduction process in future — provided your body has achieved a sustained state of improvement/ healing & your rheum. believes it's safe/ appropriate for you to reduce meds at that time — Julia's 👩 experience may come in handy:
There's also a couple other gals (👩 Lor & 👩 Debbie) who may interest you over at seneca's post: Mtx: when is "brain fog" serious: healthunlocked.com/nras/pos...
• Can I Avoid RA Drugs or Should I Go On Drugs? 'Paddison Program' FAQ Opinion; Also: Methotrexate Explanation & References: healthunlocked.com/nras/pos...
As an aside, this bit on sleep may be of interest: Quality Deep Sleep: Physical/ Mental Restoration & Improving Health: healthunlocked.com/cure-art...
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Oh no. . . . 😳 😯
😂 🙃 🤣
Apologies for misunderstanding, seneca. 🙏
PP does NOT advocate 'popping off' meds nor going 'med-free'. 😯
Full stop. 🛑
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Reducing or 'weaning off' meds 💉 💊 , is only done for individuals under their rheumatologist 👩⚕️ recommendation (& guidance 👨⚕️ ) after it's determined they no longer require medication.
[If you read my explanation to hope-always316 over at post, 'Stopped MTX and...' ( healthunlocked.com/nras/pos...... ), this 'on-going' process may become a bit clearer 👓 👀 .]
Hope this helps. 🙏
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Perhaps it bears repeating, as this misperception has unfortunately been oft repeated 🗣 💬 🗣 💬 🗣 💬 on forums — no matter how many times it's been clarified over the year(s) 😳 😄 😆 :
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Reducing or 'weaning off' meds 💉 💊 , is ONLY done for individuals under their rheumatologist 👩⚕️ recommendation (& watchful 👀 guidance 👨⚕️ ) AFTER it's determined that it's 'safe' for them to attempt a med-reducing process.
(Incremental step 👣 by incremental step 👣 — inching 📏 along at snail's pace 🐌 . . . 🐌 . . . Backtracking if needed & inching forward if/as indicated . . . in a continuous cycle ♻️ ♻️ ♻️ . . . )
ONLY individuals for whom the reduction process 'is working' actually 'totally' wean off their particular meds because they no longer REQUIRE medication.*
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Anyone who unadvisedly 'pops off' their meds, unilaterally decides to go 'med-free', or 'weans off' meds without their rhuem's approval/ guidance, or goes too quickly, or inappropriately (incorrectly) is "NOT following PP". 😳 🤔
(This is my 'layman's' (non-science, non-medical) understanding of PP process. 😌 )
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Listening/ reading PP's actual podcasts, transcripts, text 'in context' would readily clarify 👓 this misunderstanding.
I'm very sorry 😔 you've been under a mis-impression, seneca. 🙏
Wishing you (& your beloved sister 👩❤️👩 ) the very best, seneca. 😌 Please take good care. 🙏 🍀 🌺 🌞
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On a humorous/ reflective note (with a good-natured wink 'n a smile 😉 ) :
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It's best (wiser) when we get our info straight from 'the horse's mouth' 💬🐴 rather than (getting distorted/ bogus info from) the horse's 🌙🌙.
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😳 🙃 😬
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Let's put a 'final nail in the coffin' of this falsehood once & for all . . . ⚰️ 🔨
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😂 🙃 🤣
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* For anyone genuinely interested in understanding the actual PP med-reduction process, andyswarbs ' experience ( healthunlocked.com/nras/pos... ) is an actual, accurate point of reference (realistic, substantive) from a gentleman who's actually followed the process. 👍
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Again, kindly consider 🤔 who you're hearing 👂 'experiences' from:
👉 Experiences from horses' mouths 💬🐴 . . 💬🐴 . . 💬🐴 . . ('actual' PP-ers who understand or 'lived through'/ 'done' the actual process).
👉 Or, 2nd-, 3rd-, or 4th-hand hearsay 😏 from people who've little to no understanding of 😳 (or experience with) the actual PP process.
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Kindly take time to consider (reflect on):
. . . 🤔 What's accurate & what's inaccurate?
. . . 🤔 What's true ✔️ & what's false ✖️ ?
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Only you 😊 👈 can assess ⚖️ for yourself 'what makes sense' by listening 👂 to what's 'actually' said (in context) & rather than what someone else 'claims' was said ('out of context').**
Use your own ears 👂👂 , eyes 👁 👁 , & mind 🙇♀️ — not someone else's "misinterpretation" 🙅 , "distortion" 🤥 , "misunderstanding" 🤷♀️ .
Thank goodness for 🧕’s kind-hearted willingness to help the young lady & 🧕’s ability to ‘translate’ PP for the young lady! 😌 🙏 Thrilled to bits both are doing well!! 👏 🤗 👍
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[Mintychristine , just heard this latest podcast & thought it might interest you? 🤔 Maybe 🧕’s dietary & 👩⚕️’s points might be useful? 🤔 And, maybe reference to Dr. Hiromi Shinya’s work might strike a chord? 🤔 ]
☑️ Be off any of the nasty gut drugs (NSAIDs, pred, PPI’s, antibiotics)
☑️ Keep close the simplest PP foods
☑️ Ensure your diet includes probiotics via food & supplements
☑️ Keep your body moving a lot each day so your body is challenged
☑️ Avoid consistent long-term stress
☑️ Avoid distractions
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I practice these as best I can & have come round to understanding the significance of implementing some of these tips a bit more diligently. 😳 (Live & learn! 😌 🙏 )
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Lot of simple wisdom packed into brief tips.
Kindly beware of what, where, & whom you spend your time & energy with. 🙏 The repercussions are cumulative/ significant over time (😳 🤯 🙃 ), which reminds me of the gorgeous ‘running lions’ ( healthunlocked.com/nras/pos... ) photo with caption:
. . . "Surround yourself with those on the same mission as you."
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In hindsight, there’s profound depth of meaning in those simple words. 🙏 😌
For PPers interested in Clint Paddison’s interview with Dr. Ken Grey ( earthschool.tv/about.html ): Rheumatoid Arthritis Self Cure Explained by Clint Paddison On Maximum Health Radio Live Stream: m.youtube.com/watch?v=jftL9...
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If you’re already familiar with Clint Paddison’s (CP) experience & the PP (Paddison Program) process, this may be a useful summary/ refresher. 👍👍
Or, merely nice to share with:
• Loved ones who are genuinely interested in trying to understand ‘what we’re doing’ 🤔
• Fellow autoimmuners who may be interested in exploring such approaches 🕵️♀️🔎
• Our rheumatologist 👩⚕️ (if we’re blessed with a rheum. or other medics 👨⚕️ ) who’s actually interested in hearing & learning about such a process
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If you’re stateside & interested in attending ’Reversing Rheumatoid Arthritis Symptoms - Workshop with Clint Paddison and Dr. Klaper’ in Jupiter, Florida (as referred to in the video), see: eventbrite.com/e/reversing-...
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If the workshop isn’t in your future, there’s abundant information 👨💻 📚 📑 freely accessible online to explore 🕵️♀️🔎 & learn from at your own pace. 😌
Aside: Merely supplemental thoughts 🤔💭💭 for individuals interested in such ‘thinking aloud’.
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The personal experience CP convey’s may be considered merely an ‘anecdotal’ example of 1 person’s unique Autoimmune/ RA experience. Yet, he’s been able to reverse his (documented) aggressive/ debilitating RA condition and continues to maintain good health (by using his ownPP process) for years!! 😳
(If remembering correctly, it’s been over 5 years, maybe even closer to a decade(?) for himself?! 😯 🤯 )
And, what makes it even more compelling, he’s been able to share his process with many, many of us autoimmuners/ RA-ers who are also doing better — even *remarkably* well!! 😯 😳
(Are we ALL just mere ‘flukes’, 1-offs, or just ‘lucky’? 🤷♀️ 🤦♂️ 🙃 )
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How many autoimmuners are we aware of who are the ‘exception to the rule’ — who are doing better over time rather than worse over time?!* 🤔 😳
CP has ‘bucked the trend’ & those of us implementing such processes are also ‘bucking the trend’ — even though we’ve been called (labeled, categorised, . . . ) as mere ‘anecdotes’, flukes, 1-offs, or just ‘lucky’ . . . ☺️ 😬 🙃
[*My layman’s understanding is: with autoimmune disease, the ‘typical’ trend is downward decline 📉 over time 😔 😞 — not upward improvement 📈 over time. 😳 ]
The Paddison Program is founded on published scientific evidence regarding diet and exercise interventions for patients with Rheumatoid Arthritis. A 2017 literature review promoted diet management for Rheumatoid Arthritis ( ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl... ) as "a tool that can both supplement and complement present treatment strategies for a better patient health and recovery”. Likewise, exercise for RA ( ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/262... ) is strongly encouraged in the medical literature since “There is a need for interventions that support RA patients in overcoming barriers to physical activity and exercise and help sustain this important health behaviour”. Evidence-based guidelines regarding medication impact, stress reduction and supplementation - which are also covered in the Paddison Program - provide RA patients more clarity and direction to have an improved health outcome.
The results are fast, in one study only four weeks ( ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/911... ) were needed to change gut flora and achieve positive disease outcomes on a vegan diet, reinforcing the connection between a plant-based diet, fecal microbial flora, and disease activity in RA patients. Kjeldsen-Kragh reported similar results ( ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/104... ) from a controlled, single-blind study.
The results are sustainable ( ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/783... ), with a 2 year follow up with better outcomes in the restricted diet group of RA patients.
Dr. Leonard Calabrese, M.D., is an expert in Immunology and Rheumatology. He is a Professor of Medicine at the Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine of Case Western Reserve University and Vice Chair of the Department of Rheumatic and Immunologic Diseases. He recommends a plant-based diet ( youtube.com/watch?v=g8M--oV... ).
Rheumatologist Dr Nisha Manek, M.D., works with RA patients and is familiar with the Paddison Program content. Dr. Manek interviewed Clint Paddison ( paddisonprogram.com/rheumat... ) and says “Clint, you have really given a light for many, many people...I think you should be congratulated”.
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Doctors Have Succeeded Treating RA Patients Using Similar Foundations
Dr. McDougall has cared for thousands of patients for 5 decades. He has published in the medical literature ( ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/118... ) that a low fat plant-based diet significantly improves the outcome of patients with RA. Here are 10 examples of his own patients ( drmcdougall.com/2014/05/31/... ) who have shared their stories.
Dr. Monica Aggrawal ( drmonicaaggarwal.com/ ), M.D. Board Certified Cardiologist, Director of Cardiology at the University of Florida has Rheumatoid Arthritis and has normalised her inflammation markers, and now educates others ( instagram.com/p/BuNfPnfAMwl... ), using similar guidelines.
Dr Michael Klaper who was awarded the inaugural Plantritrion Project Luminary Award in 2017 for his decades of service has treated Rheumatoid Arthritis patients for over 40 years frequently suggests the Paddison Program to his Rheumatoid arthritis patients ( doctorklaper.com/diet-arthr... ).
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Further Medical Professional endorsement:
Dr Caldwell Esselstyn, M.D., Director of the Cardiovascular Prevention and Reversal Program at The Cleveland Clinic Wellness Institute (and personal cardiologist to Former US President Bill Clinton) has personally endorsed ( akitchenfairytale.com/media/ ) a Paddison Program recipe book ( amazon.com/Kitchen-Fairytal... ), written by Iida van der Byl-Knoefel after she recovered from inflammatory arthritis (by following the Paddison Program!)
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Countless Real Success Cases From The Paddison Program
Success stories derived from the Paddison Program are abundant, and have been published on independent online platforms such as Forks over Knives (Erika ( accounts.google.com/signin/... ) and Iida ( accounts.google.com/signin/... )) whilst over 100 others have been self-told in personal (unpaid) testimonial style episodes of the Paddison Podcast on inflammatory arthritis ( paddisonprogram.com/blog/ , tunein.com/podcasts/Health-... ) - and scores more endorsements provided for open sharing on the Paddison Program website ( paddisonprogram.com/testimo... ). Some successful clients have shared their inspirational results at international events ( youtube.com/watch?v=s3GAUYb... ) and have gone on to build successful businesses helping others using a similar approach.
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Conclusion
Since 2014 The Paddison Program has been highly effective at producing content to help Rheumatoid Arthritis sufferers make good lifestyle choices. The Paddison Program has been fueled by immensely positive feedback, including great support from leading medical Doctors with expertise in treating this condition. The Paddison Program is ideal for proactive people seeking ways to reduce pain in parallel to their medical care and have a happier, healthier life.
Apologies 🙏 😌 for trying to communicate the above information "The Science Supporting The Paddison Program" to you at this (‘Cure Arthritis Community’) forum , helixhelix 🧬🧬 . . . Unfortunately, I’ve no way to ‘reply to’ your comment at healthunlocked.com/nras/pos... , thus my reply here.
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If interested, this might address:
. . . "My suspicion is very much that most of the people who say they have been successful have been mis-diagnosed and actually have reactive or palindromic arthritis, or such a mild and non-erosive form of RA that it is bearable with just pain drugs. Success has never been reproduced under clinically monitored conditions. I believe Clint Paddison was aiming to do this but I’ve not seen any results.":
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Maybe(?) this will clear up some misconceptions & unseen (unacknowledged) results:
. . • Personal experiences directly from the mouths of podcasts guests** ( youtube.com/channel/UC54rKZ... ) — our fellow autoimmuners.
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*It mayn’t meet (or satisfy) your (or NRAS’s) standards, double 🧬 . . . . Nonetheless, the references ( paddisonprogram.com/the-sci... ) & anecdotes ( youtube.com/channel/UC54rKZ... ) aren't readily ‘explained away’, ignored, or dismissed by many a level-headed, well-reasoned, sound-thinking layman & even reputable, respected, science & medical professionals 🧑⚕️ 🧑🔬 .
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**Yes, merely "anecdotal stories" that carry no scientific/ medical weight in staid, entrenched communities/ institutions. Nonetheless, they’re compelling recollections & even life changing ‘reality’ for those individuals experiencing improved QoL (Quality of Life). Such improvements delight & inspire our loved ones 👩👩👦👦👨👩👦👦 & often perplex our remaining intransigently sceptical medical professionals 👩⚕️ 🧑⚕️ 👨⚕️ who witness & monitor our progress/ transformation ( 🧟 —>🤗 ), yet still"can’t see the forest for the trees"( en.wiktionary.org/wiki/see_... ). 😁 🤦 ☺️
Reflections‘n ramblings for serious, interested Lifestyle/ Dietary (L/D) Practice-ers:
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Part 1️⃣ of 9️⃣
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Merely my "opinion" (from years participating on forums & witnessing ‘what goes on’ . . . )
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For serious, interested Lifestyle/ Dietary (L/D) practice-ers in connection to "The Science Supporting The Paddison Program" ( paddisonprogram.com/the-sci... ) above:
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‘Armchair experts’ who contribute to & perpetuate ‘scepticism/ cynicism’ towards the serious implementation of L/D protocols, do disservice to newbies (the newly diagnosed & those awaiting diagnosis) & disservice to all Autoimmuners no matter our disease stage/ phase ( healthline.com/health/rheum... ).
No matter the quantity of improved lives (‘living examples’) of L/Ders walking amongst us, the demand for "proof" that satisfies the most hardened sceptics/ cynics in the scientific & medical communities mayn’t appear within our lifetime? 🤔 . . . Current sufferers who haven’t the remaining time (lifespan) to ‘wait for’ such a ‘degree of proof’, can choose to implement L/D alongside their medical team’s protocols or not.
[Awaiting an "official" ‘go ahead’ from such authorities isn’t an option for all of us. Since an official ‘stamp of approval’ isn’t likely forthcoming (at least in my lifetime 😂 🤦 ) in a timely enough manner for those of us in need, we can choose to try L/D or not. Waiting for a nod of approval, or supportive encouragement, or informed guidance from such authorities, isn’t practical for those of us with steady/ aggressive disease progression as our medication options dwindle (lose efficacy or create problematic ‘side effects’) over time. Some of us simply haven’t the ‘time frame’ left to wait for "the blessing 🙏✨of the pope 😇 ✝️ " (said with a gentle, loving 🥰 wink & a smile ☺️) as our abilities dwindle 🧑🦼🧑🦯 & our body / mind 🧠 🥴 deteriorate🦿🦾 . . . Serious implementation of L/D is our remaining option for managing our disease & maintaining our QoL.]
Nothing will convince/ sway those who are incapable of SEEING 👁 👁 what is before them.
[On one hand, such wilful blindness 🕶 🧑🦯 🙈 is amusing — even funny 🤣 🤪 at times. Simultaneously, (on the other hand) it’s unbearably sad 😔 — nay tragic 🎭 😞 — that so many ‘realistically hopeful’ sufferers (newbies, old-bies, children … & ‘in-between-bies’) are dissuaded, mis-directed, derailed … in their efforts to seriously explore L/D as a foundation for their disease management protocol alongside their medical team’s expertise.]
These interviewees cut across the spectrum of RA (Rheumatoid Arthritis) & the many ‘flavours’ of autoimmunity. These interviewees improve/ heal in varying degrees over varying time frames (weeks, months, years) — some slowly/ incrementally, some swiftly.
Their "oral histories" recount their diagnosis, symptoms, debilitations, struggles, ebbs & flows of disease manifestation, progression, & subsidence … . These ‘on-the-record conversations’ have been on-going for about 5(?) years now from disparate peoples from around the globe 🌍 🌏 🌎 — from various cultures & lifestyles ingesting various foods & medications…
The thing they (we) all share in common is the same/ similar spectrum of debilitating disease symptoms (manifestations) of variously labeled ‘Autoimmune diseases’.
To my layman’s mind, it seems unlikely that their (our) improvements/ "success stories" were ALL a matter of "mis-diagnosed and actually have reactive or palindromic arthritis, or such a mild and non-erosive form of RA" [ healthunlocked.com/nras/pos... ].
If we actually listen to their oral histories & hear their statements/ ‘evidence’ — dissect/ ‘parse out’ the facts — what they actually say contradicts the aforementioned list of ‘suspected possibilities’. 😳
Instead, upon careful listening, a pattern of facts emerge that don’t align with misdiagnosis, reactive, palindromic, mild, non-erosive RA, etc..
Instead, what reveals itself is apparent misinformation — misinterpretation, misrepresentation … being spread, repeated, & reinforced by individuals who haven’t listened to the actual sources they choose to speak about. 🤯 🤦
That is, a pre-formed unresearched, uninformed "opinion", which is asserted as "suspicion"/ speculation. 😳 🤦 🙃
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Why would anyone form an opinion — without looking at the facts — & then proceed to express that ‘uninformed opinion’ on a public forum? 🤔
Even more "opinions" & observations continued . . .
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Before, expressing Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt (FUD) via ‘suspicions, speculations, opinions’:
. . . Why wouldn’t we go to the source?
. . . Why wouldn’t we listen to (& examine) these sincere individual’s (audios 🎙 / videos 📹 of) deeply personal/ private health experiences? [After all, we listen to individual forum members (written words 📝 of) deeply personal/ private health experiences.]
. . . Why wouldn’t we do the actual "leg work 🦵 " (‘the homework’ 📚 ) before we shared 🗣💬💬 unsubstantiated ‘opinions’?
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Is a possible answer: going to the source disproves unsubstantiated ‘opinions’/ mere ‘suspicions’ …? 🤔
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. . . 🤔 Perhaps people who’ve a set opinion (a pre-set bias), feel no need to look at other people’s actual experiences that don’t fit into their "fixed", pre-conceived, preset notions?
. . . 🤔 Perhaps people who incessantly persist in minimising, sidelining, even ‘attacking’… other individuals experiences that do not fit into their "pre-conceived notions", are honestly driven, morally compelled to do so by their sincerely held (yet flawed) ‘beliefs’ & the uneasiness/ uncomfortableness when they hear of experiences that conflicts with (contradicts) their (or their cohorts’) experiences? [Cognitive dissonance ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cogni... ) ? 😖 🥺 ]
. . . 🤔 Yet, even with sincerely, deeply held ‘beliefs’, does that justify our NOT doing our research before vocalising baseless, unsubstantiated ‘opinions’ apparently(?) motivated by bias?
Even yet more "opinions" & observations continued . . .
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For anyone genuinely interested in actual facts/ truths, we need merely listen to the oral histories to immediately dispel transparent attempts at manipulating "public opinion" & instilling FUD in the inexperienced, the innocent, the ignorant…
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To ferret out inaccuracies, ‘false notions’, untruths:
. . . We need only use our own ears👂👂 & our own mind 🧠 to discern fact from fiction.
. . . We don’t need ‘intermediaries’/ ‘interpreters’ to do our thinking for us.
. . . We can use our own gawd-given logic to ferret out truth. ⚖️
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Consider conferring with your own trusted loved ones & your own trusted medics on the options available to you & how you'd like to proceed managing your condition(s), rather than accepting at face value (blindly 🧑🦯 ) the "opinions & suspicions" of self-appointed ‘armchair experts’, ‘armchair apothecarists’, ‘armchair blatherers’ (myself included! 🤣 ) . . .
Untold numbers of uninformed L/D ”dabblers ‘n dilettantes" confidently claim ‘experience/ expertise’, yet know little to nothing about actual L/D protocols such as PP. [Merely scratch their superficial surface & you’ll find your answer: a lot of ‘brash, bold assertions’ backed with ‘little nuanced depth of understanding’.]
Your ability to distinguish between 🐂-💩-ers & truth-tellers ⚖️ can be near impossible at times. If you’ve time & inclination ’read, read, read till your eye’s bleed 👁 👁🩸’ . . . The truth will emerge. Just keep using your own mind 🧠 — your own logical thinking 💭💭💭 to sift through to truths ⚖️ .
Ironically, it seems people who appear to have the ‘highest standards’ (sceptics & cynics) — as well as an unrelenting demand for verifiable "scientific proof" — claim they abide by (hold true to) the "scientific method". Yet, they seem to forget that method when it comes to their own actions. They appear to have no hesitation in freely expressing ‘opinions’ about things they’ve not applied the "scientific method" to themselves:
. . . (1) Neglecting to research the actual sources
. . . (2) ’Jumping to conclusions’
. . . (3) ‘Projecting one’s biases into a conclusion’ …
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Each of the 3 ‘breaches’ alone is "non-scientific” (egregious?) behaviour in itself —
. . . . . . . all 3 ‘ offences’ combined together is indeed "suspicious" —
. . . . . . . particularly by people who ‘claim’ to follow/ respect/ adhere to ‘science’
. . . . . . . & who presumably respect the ‘scientific method’
. . . . . . . & who require ‘proof’ — particularly from others
. . . . . . . yet, blatantly fail to apply those ‘revered steps’ to their own behaviours. 😳 🤯 😂
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It’s as chuckle-worthy as a mischievous child 👧 getting caught with their hand 🖐 in the cookie 🍪 jar ⚱️ & looking at you sweetly 👦 , innocently 🥺 all the while denying 🤥 they’re hand is in the cookie jar. . . . ☺️
[Yes, it’s ‘cute’ when a small child does it . . . but what is it when an adult does it? 🤦 ]
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Ahh . . . and so the world turns ( ( ( 🌎 ) ) ) as does our human folly . . . ( ( ( 🙃 ) ) )
It also seems unlikely their (our) improvements (across a spectrum of autoimmune illnesses) are a matter of ‘coincidence’ or just ‘luck’ 🍀 — particularly when focused/ disciplined effort (& time 🕰 📆 🗓 ) is required to seriously learn, implement, & consistently practice an L/D process over a long time (months, years) to achieve (& sustain) improved QoL.
Again, actually listening to the details laid out before us by the multitude of speakers ( youtube.com/channel/UC54rKZ... ) disproves the speculative notion of mis-diagnoses, reactive/ palindromic/ mild/ non-erosive arthritis. If we take time to listen to the actual details of their medical histories — rather than ‘speculate’ on those histories from our own pre-conceived (pre-judging 🧑⚖️ ) notions — a pattern of ‘truth’ ⚖️ emerges.
False notions/ ‘suspicions’ would be clarified & corrected, and the unfortunate dissemination of ‘false/ misleading speculations’ might be curbed, if we took care to stick with facts — actual facts directly from the horse’s mouth 🐴💬 — rather than giving credence to suspicions & speculations from the ‘partially informed’, the ‘misinformed’, the ‘biased’, or whoever appears compelled to speculate based on ‘suspicion’ — not on fact.
That quantity of ‘face-to-face’ podcast interviewees (50+ ?) doesn’t include the larger number (thousands) of non-podcast interviewees (10,000+ ? 🤷 ) who don’t publicly come forward with details of their private health struggles (in public forums) to declare their improvements via L/D protocols (and/or meds) nor do they proclaim their improvements in other ‘public media’.
The (majority?) are silent/ ‘out of view’. Although ‘the silent thousands’ may also ’not count’ as ‘legitimate science/ medically provable cases’ to the satisfaction of ‘traditional allopathic medics & institutions’, they/ we do exist. And, we do indeed ‘count’ to ourselves, our loved ones, & the lives of people we touch.
It’s hard to believe that ALL those t h o u s a n d s of individuals who are likewise intentionally practicing a specific protocol) are also"mis-diagnosed and actually have reactive or palindromic arthritis, or such a mild and non-erosive form of RA". 😳
Respectfully, it seems unlikely — highly unlikely.
Listening to other L/Ders experiences, diagnosis, etc., they sound hauntingly (even ‘precisely’) like myself & the multitude of Autoimmuners who’ve ‘passed through’ other forums over the years. To my simple layman’s understanding, it seems improbable — highly improbable— ALL those L/D practicers were misdiagnosed and/or had reactive or palindromic arthritis and/or had mild non-erosive form of RA.
Are all their personal experiences, all their medical records 📈📉 , all their rheumatologists 👩⚕️🧑⚕️👨⚕️ mistaken? 🤔
How does one argue against (‘disprove’) an x-ray, or ‘deny’ documented (‘concrete’) pattern of test results (over years) that ‘demonstrably illustrate’ the ‘reality’ of improvement/ healing brought on by intentionally practicing a specific protocol for a multitude of ‘flavours’ (manifestations) of RA & autoimmune illnesses?
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. . . 🤔 HOW does one "prove" L/D isn’t a (the?) key factor in improving/ healing a multitude of ‘flavours’ of RA & autoimmune illnesses when the accumulation of documented facts point to L/D?
. . . 🤔 And, WHY — in light of this obvious connection (between serious implementation of L/D & improvement/ healing) — does L/D continue to be downplayed (even denied) as a significant factor in managing autoimmune disease by such important figures in our lives as our beloved/ trusted medics (physicians, rheumatologists, specialists … ) & our very own ‘peers‘ whom we seek to communicate with not only for commiserating, communing, companionship but for swapping accurate, truthful information?
Asides — T&T (tedious & turgid) — In the spirit of fairness & balance ⚖️ .
Aside 1a of 7
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For anyone interested in ‘thinking aloud’ blathering, or who’ve not had improvement/ success with PP (or other L/D protocols)* or who’ve had ‘off-putting’ experiences in forums (‘social media’) when trying to share their positive L/D experiences & information.
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Former PP-ers (who‘ve followed PP "to the letter") or other vocal autoimmune-related forum members who’ve followed L/D protocols & didn’t receive the desired results: It’s unfortunate & unfair PP/ L/D didn’t work for you. After vigilant efforts implementing the process over months/ years it’s a hard blow to come to terms with. 🙏 😔 . . . It isn’t fair. It’s deeply sad & unfortunate our experience doesn’t unfold as we’d hoped/ anticipated. It’s understandably disappointing, disheartening, even despairing . . . 🥺 😔 😞 .
I t . . j u s t . . i s n ‘t . . f a i r . 🙏 😔
I don’t think the protocol (or any reputable L/D protocol) guarantees success for each & every one of us. [Just as there’s no guarantee that each medication our medics prescribe to us will work for each & every one of us, it’s the same with L/Ds.] That’s the reality we face as mature adults living in "the real world". Trial & error is our only way of discovering what works for us with medications & likewise with L/Ds. That’s the reality stated up front in the PP protocol from what I remember. All we can ask for is some degree of improvement over time — not magical ‘overnight cures’.
It’s understandable that with L/D processes, if we experience NO improvement — no matter how hard we try, no matter how vigilant & meticulous our efforts, no matter how many months/ years we diligently practice, no matter the troubleshooting techniques we’ve deployed & exhausted as each difficulty & obstacle arose . . ., it’s disheartening 😔, heartbreaking 💔 , disillusioning 😞 when there’s no perceptible improvement.
Nothing takes the sting 🐝 out of such devastating disappointment. 😔 🙏
*Individuals implementing L/D protocols who aren’t receiving the "anticipated improvements" are living through the harsh reality of disease progression ( healthline.com/health/rheum... ). That’s the harsh, brutal, unkind reality all diseased individuals (even those following L/D with improvements) continue facing. Whether we delay/ postpone/ offset/ reverse/ negate (whatever word we’d like to use) disease progression with our chosen "practices" there’s no guarantee any of our practices will achieve our desired (& well-deserved, hard-earned) results.
NO guarantees.
Maybe once we’ve reached the "tipping point" of disease progression, we’re no longer capable of nudging the pendulum back toward healing? 🤔
That is, maybe we’ve gone as far as we can go toward healing? 🤔 🤷
If we can’t heal any further, we eventually face (& accept in our own time) the reality that we’re doing all that we’re capable of doing & it’s no longer achieving our desired/ anticipated results.
It’s not our ‘fault’ as individuals implementing these protocols, nor is it the ‘fault’ of individuals who create L/D protocols, nor is it the ‘fault’ of people who create or dispense medications when those medications fail or stop working.
None of this is a finger-pointing "blame-game" or a guilt-laden, self-flagellating "self-blaming game", all of which seem to be a ‘go to’ default when we’re unsatisfied with our lack of progress. We default to needing to find & place "blame" on someone/ something for our unsatisfying results. If we’re not blaming others, we’re blaming ourselves.
Our "mileage" does indeed "vary" from individual to individual. My understanding is, much depends upon a multitude of factors — some within our sphere of influence, others outside our influence.*
Setting ‘realistic expectations’ from the outset helps us manage our expectations (& the accompanying emotional 🎭 rollercoaster 🎢 ) without squashing realistic hope or derailing our persistent daily efforts, perseverance, determination…
We can develop resilience to rebound as inevitable (’normal’, ’typical’) bumps, lapses, & setbacks occur along the way if we adjust our mindset to be ‘realistic in our expectations’ & to not prematurely ‘give up’ our practices & troubleshooting efforts.
Throwing our hands up in despair & proclaiming "it doesn’t work" at the 1st bump along the very long road toward healing, isn’t a fair trial.
Yet, after all the troubleshooting, all the time (months/ years), & all the effort we put into managing our disease & achieving no relief, no improvement after such a lengthy, exhaustive trial, it appears fair to say "it [protocol and/or med] doesn’t work for me" & move on to something else.
Perhaps, an additional possibility/ reality is when disease progression reaches a certain state/ phase ( healthline.com/health/rheum... ) [is so far advanced — intractable(?)], there’s only so much "improvement" any L/D protocol (and/or medications) can achieve? 🤔
. . . Maybe we’re at the end of the line? 🤔
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[I certainly don’t have any answers. 🤦 . . . I just don’t know . . . 🤷 . . . I’ve only "thinking aloud" thoughts to share with anyone who may be interested. 🙏 😌 ]
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Maybe that’s the realistic "reality" we each have to face (& accept) in due course? 🤔
. . • Maybe, it’s the unfortunate circumstances in which long-term, dissatisfied vocal forum participants find themselves?* 🤔
. . • Maybe it’s also the ‘fate’ of disease sufferers who are currently doing well "in the here & now" (via L/D and/or meds) & who may eventually(?) face a ‘backsliding’ when the time comes? 🤔 [After all, none of us are ‘immortal’ 🧛🏻 & total bodily failure 💀⚰️ eventually "catches up to" all of us 👼 ⛅️ whether we ‘succumb to’ disease (in one form or another), or advanced age, or some other ‘fate’ …]
. . • Maybe the best any of us can do is attempt to slow down (or halt?) active ‘disease progression’ as best we can? 🤔
. . • Maybe there’s a ’tipping point’ where disease has advanced (taken such a hold) that it’ll continue marching forward no matter the L/D (and/or the meds) we implement? 🤔
. . • Maybe we just have to ’settle for’ as good a QoL as we can achieve ‘in the here & now’ & just be "fall-to-the-knees grateful/ appreciative"🧎🙏 for what we CAN still do & what we CAN still enjoy in life? 🤔
For clarity: It’s not (nor ever was) a "blame game" or a "self-blame" or any type of "blaming" of or by anyone as alluded to in many a forum post. 😔 . . . Sadly, unfortunately — very unfortunately — the mere broaching of L/D in conversation appears to ‘trigger’ profound upset/ distress in vulnerable, perhaps ‘traumatised’ sufferers. Such sufferers mistakenly ’project onto’ others who speak about their personal improvement with L/D protocols (& even share resources they've learned from) as participating in some sort of ‘nefarious doings’. 😳
Yes, good-willed, kind-hearted L/Ders who come forward ‘in good-faith’, in the spirit of attempting to share experiences/ learnings in an effort to help fellow sufferers alleviate suffering — no more, no less — are portrayed/ ‘framed’ in some sort of mean-spirited, (comically) ‘villainous roles’ by apparently troubled individuals who seem to wish to "control the narrative" (sorta speak).
[It appears (seems) those "narrative-controlling participants" view their self-justified, unseemly comments & behaviours (indulging in innuendo, rude/ false accusations, even abusive comments towards anyone who speaks about L/Ds), as being deserved by such ‘interlopers’. Perhaps they ‘justify’ their aggressions towards L/Ders, because they view themselves as being some sort of ‘buttress against’ interlopers to protect their vulnerable comrades in suffering? 🤔 🤷 . . .They appear to wish to silence 🤐 & prevent L/Ders speaking (about what they’ve learned) by attempting to minimise, derail, ridicule … the L/Ders comments, shared experiences, or shared resources . . . 😳 🤦 . . . They’ve appeared to have adopted a self-appointed(?) "gatekeeper-like" role to protect their "flock" of perceived ‘weak, vulnerable, poor, infantilised’ adults from hearing, discussing, or even considering any L/D information that doesn’t align with their own personal beliefs (or, perhaps, the organisations/ institutions they ‘appear to’ represent or perhaps are ‘mouthpieces’ for)? 🤔 🤷 ]
These ‘public displays of diminishment & aggression seem to be public "performances"* (sort of speak) for the benefit of their like-minded cohorts & onlookers (who may wish to discuss/ consider L/D). The goal/ intention appears to be, scare people off the serious pursuit of L/D & strictly focus on meds & relegate L/D to a "minor/ secondary role". (That is, some recognise/ acknowledge the role of lifestyle & diet for overall good health, etc. yet downplay its significance in disease management & instead focus on medications while others dismiss L/D altogether (as playing any role in disease management) & they strictly abide by a med-only approach.)
*Such public displays ("performances") of ‘outrage’ can typically present stereotyped (pigeon-holed🐦 🕳 comically absurd) views towards anyone who dare discuss L/D in "their" forum. 😳 . . .Practicing L/Ders have been ‘painted as’ as scoundrels, liars, & thieves … 😳 . . . They’ve been on the receiving end of ‘unpleasantness’ by such emboldened & self-justified individuals who seem to think they’re acting on the group’s (the forum’s) behalf?🤔
[For any L/Der, just be aware of such bizarre, unwarranted ‘over reactions’, if you ever stumble into such forums & good-naturedly (naively) wish to share your good news in the hope other sufferers would likewise be interested in learning techniques to have the same positive outcomes. If you cheerfully, up-beat-edly broach the L/D topic, you can be accused of being a "snake-oil 🐍 🪔 💸 salesman " or some other nefarious ‘evil doer’ 😈 sinisterly/ gleefully rubbing your hands together as you lead your next victim down the primrose path 🌸 🌸 🌸 of magical ✨ overnight 🌃 🌇 cures . . . 😂 🤦 . . .Yes, the accusations are absurd & can be shocking 😱 as a long-line "gang" of troubled souls pelt you with false accusations … filled with mean-spiritedness, hatred, venom … 🤯 . . . Apparently a lot of misdirected, built-up hurt 😩 , anger 😠 , & rage 😡 amongst sufferers perceive you (us) as appropriate targets 🎯 to unleash their rancour 🤬 🤬 🤬… .]
It’s also likely you’ll be accused of "blaming former ‘failed’ L/Der’s for their ineffective/ failed experience with L/D & that you (we) are intentionally making them feel bad about themselves. Because, according their (contorted 🔀 ) logic — YOU (yes ‘you’) are accusing them of ”not trying hard enough" . . . Yes, the turning of your cheerful 🤗 good will & good intention is flipped on its head 🙃 . This isn’t an ‘infrequent’ occurrence on such forums. [See blame ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blame ), blame shifting, propaganda ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blame... ) …(the) standard ‘self-victimizing’ ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victi... ) bit of verbal ‘jiu jitsu’ leaves us well-meaning L/Ders scratching our heads 😳 🤔 in confusion, disbelief, & profuse apologising 🙏 🙏 🙏 … at every turn for inadvertently offending the mass of angry rabble-rousers & onlookers who ‘pile on’ & "up-vote" their gate-keeping ‘spokespeople’/ ‘protectors’. 🤭 🤦 ]
A thematic anti-PP, anti-L/D ‘patois’ emerges in some forums using ‘stock’ admonitions, accusations, excuses, etc. based on firmly pre-set false notions apparently derived from a bits of information picked up from genuine L/D implementers, along with the usual raft of ‘dabblers & dilettantes’ claiming experience & knowledge, which they clearly don’t possess (as readily revealed through their own words to actual practicing L/Ders). Mingle half-truths, hearsay, ignorance, & ‘horror stories’ with fearful (overactive) imaginations and we’ve a cocktail 🍸 of codswallop ( 🐂 💩 ) to frighten away anyone from ever thinking about seriously implementing L/D as a significant aspect of their disease management protocol. 😱
Once again, it would be awfully funny if it weren’t so tragic. 🎭
It appears much high-pitched, anti-PP, anti-L/D misinformation, fear, hate, etc. comes out of the mouths of deeply wounded, painfully hurt (both physically & psychologically) sufferers who continue to seek relief/ improvement as their disease progresses & their med cocktails continue being switched up. Vocally vociferous members of such ‘tribes’/ ‘cliques’ appear to lack awareness (self-awarness) of how their ‘lashing out’ affects the targets of their rage (nor perhaps do they care? 🤷 ). Maybe their only interested in ‘whipping up’ their cohorts agreement to reassure onlookers (& themselves) of their own personal choices? 🤷 . . . Maybe, because some are too far along their disease path (knee deep in multiple med ‘cocktails’), too far invested in entrenched beliefs (particularly from those that support & surround them) to even consider seriously incorporating an L/D this far down along the path they’ve paved for themselves for years on end? 🤷 . . . And, perhaps they simply do believe their own recalcitrant ‘propaganda’ that what they put in their mouths has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the manifestation of their ‘unique‘ disease? 🤷 (Gawd only knows. 🤷 🤦 )
Yet, some, by their actions, seem pathologically(?) obsessed with vilifying L/Ds at each & every turn & appear to ‘go out of their way’ to even raise & denounce it at every opportunity. 😳 . . . Such seeming ‘obsession’ (hatred) perhaps reveals deeper, unconscious truths that these individuals are oblivious to? 🤷 . . . Back-peddling or changing course may be a secret, quiet, unacknowledged, unspoken desire of some who’ve spent decades — a lifetime — denying what others have accomplished. Perhaps they’re too proud to acknowledge the truths that are readily apparent to those with eyes to see? 🤷
None of us can turn back the hands of time 🕐 ; if we could, so many of us — knowing what we know now — would do things differently. 🙏 😌
Observations: After several years popping in/ out of forums, I’ve observed (witnessed) sincere L/D practice-ers (myself included) slowing down our disease progression & doing better (some even remarkably better) as our befuddled medics look on & head-scratchingly tell us to just "keep doing what you’re doing". [That’s the best endorsement of L/D I’ve ever received from my medical team.] Our health trajectory inches upwards 📈 toward healing.
Yet, in the same time frame — from our in-forum, rabid anti-L/D counterparts — in contrast (in revealing moments of spoken truths/ unguarded honesty) they acknowledge their need for switched-up med cocktails & note their gradual decline. Their health trajectory incrementally inches downward 📉 toward decline — not upward toward improving.
The contrasting directions in these 2 health/ healing trends diverges onto 2 separate meandering paths — one upward ⬆️ & one downward ⬇️ .
[Please don’t take my ‘informal observation’ as fact. Go to the root sources themselves; read the words out of the mouths of these individuals. Go back & read, read, read . . . what they’ve said over years. Bare-faced, unvarnished truths emerge. Heart breaking 💔🩸& sad documented revelations of factual ‘reality’ — an unfolding of disease progression over time.]
Half a decade is a lot of healing time, it can set the stage for establishing (& remaining on) a healing/ ‘health-sustaining path’ or it can be a by-passed ‘window of opportunity’ that slips away as we slowly (or swiftly) drift into decline with damage that can’t be "undone".
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Digging in our heels 👠👠 & persistently refusing to acknowledge truths does no one any good.
It appears to hurt most the very people who deny truths the loudest.
Such swift, irrational, outbursts of hostility, can be the routine "norm" on such forums. The resident active "vocal participants" appear to be long-term, long-time dwellers/ sufferers who’ve tried everything. [They’ve typically been on the med-merry-go-round 🎠, rollercoaster 🎢 ride & a revolving door of various "diets" over years with varying degrees of ups & downs 🎡. Some claim to be "in remission" & doing well, others are obviously suffering terribly (unconscionably) & yet continue putting on a cheery face & maintaining a ‘stiff upper lip’. It can all be terribly sad 😔 , depressing 😞 … ]
If you’ve never participated in a forum, the horrific backlash you can receive/ experience can be shocking 😱 — even upsetting/ distressing. 😰 . . . Witnessing your well-meaning, open-hearted kind intentions, backfire stunningly can be horrific. 🤯 ] Recipients of such abusive behaviours typically go silent 😶 🤫 (& appear to leave the forum? 🤷 Or, at least, cease 🛑 participating.)
Anyhoo, merely a ‘heads up’ of what you can encounter on forums if you dare broach L/D. And, merely reassurance — "it’s not you" doing anything wrong. You’re not being mean, rude, thoughtless … or whatever ridiculous/ outrageous barbs are ‘tossed at you’. You’ve done nothing wrong. It has nothing to do with you. Sadly, (likely?), it can be the result of "projection" ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psych... ) / "displaced anger" ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Displ... / "scapegoating" ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scape... )) of some very unwell, distressed, long-suffering individuals who are bearing up as best they can in a community that’s their "lifeline" of like-minded souls who rely on each other for daily/ routine comfort & support. 🙏 😌 . . . And you (we) are ‘interlopers’ saying things that don’t align with their perspective.
[Just bare in mind: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victi... & en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psych... . Although you’re heart ♥️ is in the right place, avoid getting ‘sucked into’ trying to ‘rescue’ (or inadvertently becoming an ‘enabler’ to) sufferers who are perennial victims ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victi... ) that don’t require ‘information’ (or a ‘helping hand’ to move toward pro-active L/D implementation) but actually require (‘feed off’ of) a never-ending supply of tea, sympathy, understanding, & an ever-caring, listening empathetic ear 👂. They’re not seeking ‘advice’; they’re seeking ‘sympathy’. They’re not looking for answers/ information, they’re looking for hugs 🥰 .]
We can stumble into other L/D-interested participants in forums, & try to converse/ exchange information — yet mayn’t be able to carry on an uninterrupted conversation because (not unusually) a disgruntled ‘bully’ interjects. They ‘appear to’ feel compelled (& justified) to derail/ side-track your conversation with false accusations or ‘faux outrage’ or ‘whipped up drama’ over absolutely nothing. 🤯 . . . ‘It seems to be an intentional act (a kabuki theater of the absurd 🎭 ) to whip up heated emotions of their ‘followers’ & to ‘drive off’ any talk of L/D (& perhaps to ‘drive away’ L/Ders themselves) from "their" forum.
If L/D-ers wish to peacefully ☮️, uninterruptedly converse with (exchange ideas, information, …) with our like-minded peers, sometimes it’s best to keep the conversations through PMs (Private Messages). Yes, PMs defeat the very purpose of having a "forum" (a public conversation) — a supposedly, open, ‘public commons’ to exchange ideas, thoughts, information… in a friendly, respectful manner. Yet, what do we do when we’re trying to calmly, peacefully discuss a topic together & a persistent, aggressive ‘heckler’/ ‘stalker’ keeps nipping at our heels & relentlessly follows us about? 😳 🤦
It’s a troubling combination of pathetic & hilariously juvenile/ childish behaviour mixed with & pathologically frighteningly ‘unwell’ minds. [Bit of geriatric ‘Mean Girls’ ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mean_... ) on steroids mingled with Pythonesque ‘Hell’s Grannies’ ( vimeo.com/39081330 ), & the ‘Wild West’ 🤠 (sans guns). You just don’t know what you’re going to encounter. 😯 🤦
[Unfortunately, some forums are seemingly unmonitored, barely monitored, or so poorly monitored, that egregious behaviours slip by or are even "allowed/ permitted" by the very people supposedly doing the ‘monitoring’. 🤦 . . . Some forums appear to be ruled by "group-think" mentality, where "gang-ups" are allowed/ a blind-eye is turned/ or poor behaviour is "excused" because people are "unwell". "Majority rule" appears to be the ‘rule’ in some forums — no matter how egregious the pattern of behaviour amongst the ‘vocal’ disgruntled majority. 😯 🙃 🤦
It’s difficult to believe that individuals uttering & repeatedly/ intentionally spreading such falsehoods (exaggerations, fear mongering, FUD-ster-ing, ….) are sincere in their utterances. Perhaps they are indeed sincere? 🤷 . . . Yet, it boggles 🥴 the mind 🧠 of reasonable, thinking adults that such falsehoods could take up residence in the minds of seemingly thoughtful, caring, cogent people as they ‘portray’ themselves to be. 😳 🤯 . . . [On the other hand, seeing what & how we think & behave when we’re in the depths of illness, it’s understandable how, at times, "lack of clarity" & "overflow of uncontrolled emotion" can overtake our minds & cause any one of us to behave inappropriately? 🤔 ]
Yet, again ‘on the other hand’, individuals authoritatively initiating & perpetuating misleading (even pathologically disparaging — statements/ accusations towards others), claim they are "well-controlled/ well managed" in their disease. Some even claim they’re in "medical remission", yet continue to behave ‘troublingly’. 🤔
Fortunately/ blessedly 😌🙏 , such troubling (hyperbolic) behaviours are ‘seen through’ by astute, sympathetic observers who remain undeterred in their efforts to improve their QoL by whatever means — L/D protocol(s) and/or med protocols; whatever protocol(s)/ combinations they wish to try.
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[Just like meds, if one good-faith effort at a med fails over time, another med is tried:
. . . If one good-faith effort at an L/D protocol fails over time, another L/D protocol is tried.]
Individuals who are well-enough to try (& who are motivated to continue trying) — do so — undeterred.
Sadly (horrifically 😱 ) no matter how kind-spirited, kind-hearted intentions are (by genuine, honest people) to share with fellow sufferers (in order to help heal), honest people’s efforts are misconstrued/ ‘turned on their head’ 🙃 (from perhaps well-meaning individuals) yet sadly misinformed/ ‘troubled’ individuals who appear to subscribe to ”the end justifies the means"( en.wiktionary.org/wiki/the_... ) patterns of behaviour?
. . . Misinformation self-perpetuates ♻️ endlessly, infinitely ♾ on forums whether upfront in Posts/ Replies themselves or via ‘back channels’ of PMs (Private Messaging).
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On a somewhat humourous, but deeply ironic note, the very people who desperately wish for others to "scream from the rooftops" 🗣🗯 🏘 🏠 what ‘works’, are the very people who target 🎯 individuals who are speaking up 🤣 🤪 . . . (Beggars belief. 🤦 ) A hair-triggered, unreflecting reflex, shoots the messenger.* 🩸 🤯💥🔫 👈🤨
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Would be hysterically funny if it weren’t so sad — nay tragic. 🎭
"Cutting off one’s nose 👃 to spite one’s face 😶 " appears an all too real ‘reality’ for ‘the unaware’, ‘the unconscious’. 🤦
Dr. Goldner. I am a medical doctor practicing, emergency medicine, hospitalist medicine with ICU and clinic family medicine for 22 years and 10 years in the army as a doctor. My wife had a stroke due to anti-phospholipid syndrome and she developed lupus. I got the life time access to you lectures on your web site and was impressed to the point that we are both phasing in your diet protocol and my wife is already feeling much better after only 3 weeks. I have found your material and Dr. Rhonda Patrick PhD biochemist to be invaluable in this. For several years I had been searching for real information about nutritional therapies but all I could find was a lot of "junk science" or someone or some company trying to sell a product. Thank you so much for posting your videos and information. I deal with chronic disease on a daily basis as a result of poor diet and lifestyle. 40% of the US population is now considered obese and I have NEVER seen so many obese yet malnourished people. You know as well as I do that we were NOT taught nutritional therapy or support in medical school and to be quite honest it infuriates me that most if not all we need to heal ourselves from most chronic "disease" is the proper nutrition and lifestyle changes yet MD and DO schools do NOT emphasize this. I'm telling everyone in my practice about your book and web site and I have already started modifying my practice with questions and advise to try and get people to focus on nutrition and hopefully get off their prescription medications for a whole host of chronic issues. I hope to get to meet you some day in person. Hey folks.....This lady is for real. She is not trying to sell you a miracle cure or promote a product line of nutraceuticals. What she advocates is right off the store shelf along with common sense lifestyle changes (don't abuse your body that God gave you). Like anything, read and study for yourself but as a practicing MD in a busy practice I'm referring people to her information without reservation.....and NO, I'm not in cahoots with her or being paid to endorse her. I'm a frustrated doctor tired of seeing people suffer from chronic disease that I was told could not be reversed or treated without pharmaceuticals."
On forums, another articulate, thoughtful, (apparently?) sincere individual [ healthunlocked.com/user/san... ] attempts to share experience with exquisite clarity, succinctness, thoughtfulness. 🙏 😌
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Sadly, all too often, the well-intentioned, well-respected, resident ’Doyennes of Disease’ (said with a lovingly 🥰 kind wink & a smile ☺️ 🙏 ) who inhabit (even ‘dwell’ in) forums & routinely dispense their "deeply held personal opinions". All take place under the seemingly approving eye of it’s ‘institutions/ sponsors(?)’. They’re all too often armed, loaded, & ready to ‘shoot down’ (🩸 🤯💥🔫 🤬 ) anything or anyone who has a different experience from theirs (& their cohorts).
Apparently, hair-triggered DoD’s skilfully keep everyone (who desires support & understanding & wishes to participate) in line. Having witnessed DoD’s actively pursuing & discouraging anyone who has a different experience, is horrific 😨 — mind-blowing 🤯 . . . Perhaps an actual goal is to discourage L/D voices from participating on such forums, from sharing information, & from ‘correcting’ rampant misperceptions? 🤷 [On a darkly humoured note, it’s a bit ’Aunt Lidia’-like ( the-handmaids-tale.fandom.c... , the-handmaids-tale.fandom.c... , giphy.com/gifs/VzSX7eMNVgx6... 😳 🤦 🙃 ) in their ‘enforcers‘ implementing unsavoury techniques to "keep their flock in line" 🐑 🐑 🐑 . . . & to keep anyone with other reputable/ reliable information "out".]
[After all, what happens to institutions once their ‘followers’ learn of other/ additional methods to help care for themselves & educate themselves? 🤔 . . . What happens when we’ve free access to quality, accurate information & can begin learning how to find reliable information & resources for ourselves ? 🤔 . . . And, learn to think for ourselves? 🤔 . . . And, begin to truly understanding & experientially learn better methods of self-care? 🤔 . . . What happens when we become less reliant on such institutions & the entities that support their existence? 🤔 . . . And, what happens when we improve/ heal? 🤔 ]
As far as I’m aware — at least from what I’ve learned from listening to PP podcasts (& listening to other ’reputable’ L/D protocol-ers, medics, ‘experts’, etc.):
. . • It’s not advised (nor ever was advised) to pop off one’s medications 💊 💉 .
. . • Nor was it advised to only use L/D and L/D alone (even though there are individuals successfully doing their chosen med-free strategy under their rheumatologists/ medics 👩⚕️🧑⚕️👨⚕️ watchful eye 👁).*
Yet, these misperceptions/ untruths are perpetuated in forums; it‘s a routine false belief (‘meme’) that has ‘taken hold’ (& ‘lives on’) that people are told to stop their meds, stop going to their rheumatologists, & solely rely on L/D! 🤯 🤦
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From my understanding of PP (& other protocols), it’s quite the opposite of what has been falsely portrayed & perpetuated by ignorant, fear-mongering FUD-sters & DoDs.
. . • The need to STAY ON MEDS while incorporating L/D processes.
. . • The only time to reduce meds is under the approval/ agreement of one’s rheumatologists (medical team) & under careful, monitored guidance once verifiable improvements (tests, etc) show a sustained pattern of improvement over time, then it’s ‘safe’ to attempt a ‘wean off’ meds at that point.
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These points have been emphasised, reiterating, & underscored REPEATEDLY. Yet, somehow they’re unseen(?), unheard(?), bypassed(?), ignored(?) … by individuals who claim they’ve actually implemented PP/ L/Ds themselves or understand it.* 🤷 🤦
HOW these falsehoods/ rumours ("lies" 🤥 ?) got started & are perennially perpetuated on forums is a question for moderators & administrators of such forums. Apparently, untruths were/ are allowed to "stand uncorrected" & repeated endlessly ♻️ ♾ — all under the rubric/ ‘guise’ of "personal opinion". 🤷 🤦 [Yes, I’d communicated my concerns to forum admins directly via forum posts/ replies & as well as PMs (Private Messages).]
*Again, ironically, how people on such forums who claim they’ve implemented PP (or have understanding of PP) let these falsehoods ‘stand’? Some, who claim they’ve read PP (or at least know about it or claim to understand it) are the very people initiating & spreading blatant "misinformation". Or, if they actually do ‘understand’ it, they "allow" falsehoods — uttered by their ‘peers’/ cohorts — to go unquestioned/ unchallenged. 😳 😯 🤯 . . . The incongruent comments/ behaviours, the "cognitive dissonance’, the self-contradictions evidenced in comments/ statements, are blatant ‘examples’/ ‘evidence’ that the individuals ‘claiming’ experiences/ knowledge of a PP (or an L/D) actually have little to no experience (or true depth of understanding) of what they claim. (The Dunning-Kruger effect** in full swing? 🤔 🤷 🤦 )
[** "Dunning-Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which people assess their cognitive ability as greater than it is. It is related to the cognitive bias of illusory superiority and comes from the inability of people to recognize their lack of ability. Without the self-awareness of metacognition, people cannot objectively evaluate their competence or incompetence. . . .
. . . the cognitive bias of illusory superiority results from an internal illusion in people of low ability and from an external misperception in people of high ability; that is, "the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others." [ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunni... ]]
Related: L/D "dabblers & dilettantes" abound. They’ve no qualms about vociferously expressing their "opinions" (self-proclaimed ‘expertise’) after a few days or a few weeks of partially implementing an L/D protocol.
Anti-L/D fervour 🤒 🥵 🤬 runs high & it’s flames 🔥 are stoked & fanned by such individuals & their ‘followers’ who unthinkingly "jump on the band wagon". Perhaps they do so to ‘curry favour’ (& to be in favour) with DoD-like Aunt-Lydia’s who appear to "control the narrative". Seasoned/ experienced Autoimmuners can provide a lovingly caring ear, dispense sympathy along with much needed information, & guidance for newbies (newly diagnosed Autoimmuners) who are still reeling from the shock of diagnosis. The perennially perplexed who struggle to gain a modicum of ‘control’ over a disease run amok, appear to be dependent on such round-the-clock support & are grateful for it. [Again, mere personal ‘opinion’ (that carries no weight) — merely ‘inferences’ inferred from observation.]
If we’ve actually read/ learned/ listened & understoodthe protocol — as some of these self-claimed PP practicers have claimed (or implied) they’ve done — HOW/ WHY are they misstating basic principles? 🤔
Do they actually not know (understand) the fundamental principles? 🤔
[Does this incongruence call into question that speaker’s credibility/ reliability to convey accurate/ truthful information? 🤔 ]
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. . . Is it possible that they didn’t (couldn’t?) actually follow the protocol? 🤔
. . . Did they followed a ‘portion’ of it that they’d ’heard’ about? 🤔
. . . Did try to follow it, but didn’t really understand it? 🤔
. . . Are they (understandably) hurt, angry, disillusioned, embittered… about their experience? 🤔
. . . Are they ‘lashing out’ in rage & frustration? 🤔
. . . Is casting aspersions & ‘blaming’ others a way to ’cope with’ harsh, brutal, cruel reality of unfair, unjustified, inexplicable misfortune?* 🤔
* From what I can infer — "stating the (bloody) obvious":
. . . Individuals who downplaythe significance in L/D in their course of their disease progression do so because that has been their personal experience.
. . . Individuals who discussthe significance in L/D in their course of their disease progression do so because that has been their personal experience.
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No one is ‘right’; no one is ‘wrong’ in their experiencing of ‘their experience’ or feeling the feelings ‘that they feel’ or in expressing those feelings fairly, in balance ⚖️ , & ‘in context’.
Yet, is it right (fair) to misrepresent, to ‘colour’, & to even disparage (in subtle & not so subtle ways) information, facts, individuals, personal motivations, etc. in an attempt to "control the narrative" to suit one’s personal bias? 🤔
For true pioneers continuing to blaze a trail through thickets of interminable ignorance, a bit of Swift-ian 📝 delight to bring a gentle, twinkling ✨ smile ☺️ :
. . . ”When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
[Lyrics ( wordsmusicandstories.wordpr... ) & meaning: "Garfunkel once summed up the song’s meaning as ’the inability of people to communicate with each other, not particularly internationally but especially emotionally, so what you see around you are people unable to love each other.’"] 😌 🙏 🍀 🌺 🌞
For anyone interested in talking L/D with other sincere L/D-ers, we’re allowed to speak openly supportive environments at other forums. Seeking out such forums is a healthy option for true seekers. 🙏 😌
A couple, open, respectful forums visited by L/D-ers with diverse practices/ practicers are welcomed, valued, & are permitted to freely share ideas, resources & to discuss tips, techniques, protocols:
Such forums are actually moderated (monitored routinely) by active experienced admins/ moderators who also are active participants in the forum. They’re not ‘ghost towns’ 👻 👻 🏚 🏘 ‘ (or unmonitored by admins or moderators), nor are they monitored by ‘self-appointed’ (self-anointed?) ‘Aunt Lidia’s’ 👵 👵🏻 👵🏿 who promote, endorse, & ‘enforce’ their personal biases (their "group-think" view) to the diminishment/ discouragement of other participants with different life experiences.
A desire to discuss & share useful techniques is encouraged & allowed in genuinely open forums where focus is on exchanging healthful ideas & moving toward healing & improving physical & mental well-being (via L/D). The L/D protocols discussed are as diverse as the individual participants themselves & participants respectfully discuss topics in ‘safety’. Poor behaviour — especially disrespectful patterns by any participant — is swiftly handled. ‘Repeat (rude, disrespectful, aggressive. . . ) offenders’ aren’t tolerated.
Merely sharing as it might help place "into some context" the divergent spectrum of views expressed & the "patterns" witnessed.
Bottom line: Seriously learning, implementing, experientially understanding Lifestyle/ Dietary (L/D) protocols — whatever protocol works for you — can help improve your (our) probability of improving/ healing. Kindly 🙏 😌 , don’t be dissuaded, discouraged from helping yourself & continue working with (monitored by) your trusted medics (along with judicious use of meds as needed).
[As you (we) well know, our body gives us feedback 🔄 to let us know when we’re on (& ‘off’) the right track for us. 👍👍 . . . Blessedly, we can (& do) figure things out along the way! 👍👍 ]
Wishing you wellness, Bunty62. 😌 🙏 🍀 🌺 🌞
[Don’t know if you’ve already experimented with ‘intermittent fasting’ and/or ‘water (or green juice) fasting’ ( healthunlocked.com/fasting-... )? Sometimes such techniques help us reset/ restore balance if our body has gotten ‘out of wack’. Good luck 🍀 , Bunty62.]
Precisely. 🤦. . . My sentiments (& observations) exactly, Bunty62 . Sad, very sad. 😔 😞 . . . [No way to reach people steeped in ‘denial’ ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial ) incapable/ unaware of their own self-contradictions (revealed by their own words). Awakening people out of their unshakeable, indoctrinated beliefs — endlessly reinforced by their forum’s compatriots/ outspoken ‘leaders’ — is impossible/ fruitless.]
The only thing we as sincere seekers can do is open our own eyes 👁 👁 , look around, & see what other people (who are doing better/ are doing well) are actually doing. Visiting different forums opens our eyes, broadens our views. Lots of various L/D philosophies/ experiences worth exploring elsewhere ( healthunlocked.com/healthye... ).
[Some sites (such as NRAS) are merely resources for exploring ‘medication’ 💉 💊 information via the various ‘opinions’ of its lifelong, amateur ‘armchair apothecarist’ — for hearing pros & cons of 1st-hand experiences. (And, for scaring ourselves witless 😨 about what our futures can be if we’re not proactive NOW.) Their often problem-riddled (even ‘horrific’ 😱 ) results speak for themselves. 🤦 . . . A fate we all wish to avoid 🙏 😔 .]
Yet, if we wish to actually improve our condition(s) at root, we need to seriously/ intensively exploring Lifestyle & Diet (L/D) as the basic foundation of good health. [Lots of sufferers simply don’t want to hear that. And, it’s been drilled into so many (even by our rheumatologist 🧑⚕️ 🩺 ) that L/D "doesn’t make a bit of difference!" Well, once we believe that, we get the indoctrinated/ intractable views (& the resulting endless cycle ♻️ of progressive decline 📉 & juggling 🤹 of med cocktails 💊 🍸 ) amongst the most vociferous 🗣 🗯 🗣 🗯 🗣 🗯 believers. 🤦 . . . Calm, level-headed reasoning doesn’t penetrate that depth of intractable ‘programming’.]
Yes, there appears to be a "misery loves company" clique-ish feel to ‘long-time regulars’ & perhaps there is some type of quiet, unspoken satisfaction(?) in the "I told you so" self-satisfied, ‘superior attitude’ they appear oblivious to? 🤦 . . . Scary. [Maybe Dunning-Kruger effect ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunni... ) in full swing? 🤷 Gawd only knows. 🤦 ]
Exactly. Meds are indeed ‘hit & miss’ (no guarantees) for each & everyone of us — just as L/D is. 😳 . . . [Apparently, die-hard med-only ‘insist-ers’ just don’t want to hear that. Or, just can’t acknowledge that. (Perhaps too deep in ‘denial’ ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial )? 🤷 . . . To utter ‘hit & miss’ aloud would be blasphemy. 😂 🤭 🤦 ]
Found microbiome (‘good’ gut bacteria 🦠 ) information ( healthunlocked.com/cure-art... , healthunlocked.com/nras/pos... ) a fascinating ‘jumping off point’ & a key 🔑 to good (autoimmune system) health. Again, you may already be well aware of this, Bunty62. 👍👍
Spot on, Bunty62!! (PP isn’t every one’s cup of tea ☕️ .) Key is some type of reputable L/D roadmap 🗺 & serious implementation (that we can tailor ✂️ 🧵 to our unique bodily needs along the way) can be given a fair shake. ⚖️ . . . Daily movement/ exercise 🚶 🏊 🧘 is fundamental part of a comprehensive L/D protocol. 👍👍 . . . (We’re ‘living examples’ of what can be done.)
[It’s useful for other people to be aware of our existence & to avoid lapsing into the tunnel-visioned 🔬 , med-only approach that so many of our medics 🩺 are narrowly aware of (limited by/ restricted to). Too many sufferers await the next ‘miracle’ med 💉 💊 (‘just around the corner’) to miraculously "fix" a complex systemic bodily problem after they’ve run through failed med after failed med… & decline further & further down the rabbit hole 🐰🕳 . . . Proactively practicing movement/ exercise along with being vigilant about what we put in our mouths is so important for improving/ healing. I hope 🙏 😌 more people become aware of & proactive about the significance of seriously implementing some type of L/D protocol. 👍👍]
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