I was recently reassessed for PIP. I should have scored 16 points for the daily living part and zero for mobility. However I only scored 8 points, made up from 4 lots of 2. The assessor clearly didn't understand how to apply the descriptor guidlines to variable conditions like rheumatoid arthritis. I haven't appealed because of the stress and 8 points means I still get the lower rate. However, from November next year, because of the eligibility changes announced this week, I'll no longer get it. Apparently I'm in the same boat as about 1 million others. It's the necessity to score 4 points in at least 1 activity. Clearly the government worked out that this change would save them a lot of money. The lower rate is worth nearly £4k a year. Times that by 1 million and that gives you £4billion of the £5billion that they hope to cut from the benefits bill per year.
How can any government treat disabled people this way? Most of us on PIP either can't work or can only do a limited amount of work. Therefore the vast majority of these 1 million people can't afford to lose £4k a year. When reporters ask Keir Starmer how will people survive, all be says is he had disabled people in his family, so he knows what it's like. We all got sick and tired of the Tories because of their constant gas lighting and refusal to give straight answers. Now it seems that Labour are no better. I voted Labour but didn't expect them to solve the country's ills by destroying the lives of disabled people. Especially when there are many other ways that the Government can raise taxes on the people with the broadest shoulders financially. I think that politics has sunk to a new low this week. Hopefully, the Government will be persuaded to abandon this new "4 points for at least one activity" rule.
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Deaconblues
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If people are genuine and not those who know how to work the system then it shouldn't cause unnecessary worry. Not a political comment as I don't do that. We lost our winter fuel allowance and got no other help as we are border line so we had to suck it up. If it isn't one thing it's another.
£300 is a lot easier to suck up than £4000. For years 8 points has been an acceptable score to be awarded the living part for PIP. Now we are told that it's not necessarily enough. Of course that's a political decision and not one based on fairness or indeed morality.
We all have our cross to bear sadly. Fortunately or not I get DLA which was before PIP and that doesn't match £ for £ so PIP are awarded more so not fair is it!
Misunderstood on your part. I can see why you are upset and possibly angry but don't take it out on others. End of conversation but I wish you good luck
If you are single &your main source of income is the old State Retirement Pension..I’m sure losing £300 when the winter fuel bills fall due..is darned difficult.
Hi Deaconblues. (I remember that band. Without the S on the end!) I’m sorry about your assessment. I’m sending my PIP form off soon. I’ve been dreading it. I only get the standard rate. No mobility thing. It’s people like u & me they’re ‘after’. I have RA & Iritis & Glaucoma. Which are chronic eye conditions too. I can walk. But not as fast as ‘normal’ people. I get tired so easily & stress makes my condition worse. I get Iritis flare ups out of the blue. So i need to take steroid eye drops every hr for a week. Then taper off weekly. So i can be on them for months. Unless i need steroid injections in the eyes. The condition can cause real fatigue. I’m only just getting over a fluey thing. With such a sore throat, chesty cough. Any sort of infection can bring on an Iritis attack. I’ve got a Glaucoma app today actually. I’m glad you’re on the standard rate. But it feels unfair that we’re being ‘tested’. I know a small percentage are dishonest. But that means the majority can lose out. Not fair.
Me too borderline , they never look at the finer points I've come to realise that the ones with the pension credits are better off than no on borderline, their pension made up to the same as ours and then of course they get the freebies on top
one thing that does stick in my throat a bit is that if you've worked from age 16 right through most of it we may as well have not bothered if you take my point
Agree. Well put. Yes you get disablement ongoing if you were under pension age when applied. I feel let down in some ways as I was redundant at 59 just as pension got moved to 62 & then to 64 At that time employers weren't told to employ older candidates and the situation was there were 70 applicants for each job I applied for then I was in a lot of pain as hip started being a problem but not granted pip........ dreadful dark years I gad to move to live on retirements savings from house equity, no help. I'd be owed 30 k like many of us Waspi ladies I worked in care zero hour contract to help a bit so I could rest up in between each house call but earned pittance and no way could I afford 12 wks off with a new hip operation as I got no sick pay as on zero hour contract
.... iv had my op finally but sadly left with a very shortened leg and pain in a different place. I asked for attendance allowance but of course I got a no. Even though I can't manage everyday tasks and getting out of bed is a nightmare. Living alone difficult. Nobody really cares it seems or looks at realities and finer points. It hurts when you have strived to do your bit 'the right way' throughout life and not been a benefit seeker
I have just has my telephone assessment and am hoping to get enough points to get some award. I have RA plus 3 lung issues and can only walk with mobility aids. The assessor was very knowledgeable but who knows whether I’ll get the award, let alone the 4 points thing for at least one activity rule.
Everyone should ask for it ,as they don't give you it (terrible)
Yours should be available give it 2 to 3 weeks
The report gives you an indications of award as decision makers usually go along with it ,
For some its the anxiety if the report would cause you this wait for letter of decision then ask for it , if you'll be fine phone in 2 weeks for the report phone up ask for assessment report PA4
I am afraid whichever party is in power will have to deal with the rampant fraud in the benefit system, sixteen year old boys claiming that their diagnosis of mild ADHD means they can't work is an example.
Any tightening up of a system which involves conditions on a scale results in unfair treatment of people like us. You also get unfair and inconsistent decisions when humans are involved. I am really sorry that you have been affected, it's rubbish.
There isn't rampant fraud. What evidence there is tells us that fraud is very low. The Government's decisions this week have got nothing to do with beating fraudsters, but to further its argument it's pedalling the myth that fraud in the benefit system is a lot bigger than it really is. We should try to stick to the facts. 1 million disabled people will no longer receive the lower level for PIP daily living. That's £4000 per year. The vast majority on PIP are not fraudsters and don't spend the money on caviar and Champagne.
I completely agree there isn't rampant fraud for PIP, and that's the worst thing for them to target. I should have made it clear I was talking about benefit fraud in general.
You are right about GENERAL Benefit Fraud it has always been high but since Covid has also increased, but as usual it’s the most vulnerable in society they target!
More money being put into Fraud would save a huge amount of money, I would not say GENERAL Benefit fraud is amazingly low, and now sure how it needed to be pointed out as I wasn’t making comparisons.
Unfortunately it’s the fraudsters who are targeting the vulnerable. It’s the fraudsters actions that mean the government is taking steps. There isn’t enough money for anything, people and services suffer. Governments choice is to decide which services and who, suffers more or less. There is no where else to get the money from so easily so they see this as a quick fix. Simply put, not enough people in society are working and paying enough tax to fund the government spending. For example, the company I worked for closed early in covid. I’m 62 now, pension age 67. I not claiming any benefits and living off savings that I made to cover the potential break between working and pension time. I was more valuable to the government when I worked as I paid plenty of tax. Now I’m economically inactive so to speak. I read there's thousands like me who would still be working but the pandemic destroyed those jobs. Perversely, I injured my leg during the pandemic, couldn’t get hospital treatment and am now left with a painful limp and with limited walking and standing ability so couldn’t do my old job anyway . I do hope however the governments focus will be on the younger generation as there’s more time to repair at that end than those already in the system.
Apparently statistics show that around 20% of young people are not in work or looking for work. It’s extraordinary and you’re correct, something does need to be done. We recently employed and then sacked a 22 year old woman. She almost begged me to give her a job and despite my misgivings I did. She only worked two days a week and constantly moaned about how stressful it was and it was effecting her mental health. She’s now claiming. She is the kind of person they’re talking about. Third generation claimants without any work ethic and absolutely no resilience and it’s worrying.
Most people can do something. For those that can’t and never will then there will be improvements in the system as they won’t have to have regular assessments which can only be a positive.
The main problem will be that those that can do something are virtually unemployable as they lack skills, experience or the will and attitude and who in their right mind would employ them.
There is no fraud. This is about debt and sadly the most needy will suffer. As I said in a previous post they will ramp up tge whole 'benefits scroungers vibe.' Don't fall for it.
Sadly there is always some fraud and it’s naive to think there isn’t but it’s the people playing by the book the pay for it and that’s very unfair. Fraudsters actions penalise those that need support most and they must be stopped but how? Fraud isn’t a huge problem I agree but its impact in the most vulnerable is hence it must be stopped.
There is fraud. I know of two people both in the early 80's and still getting full mobility, new car every 3 years, both shouldn't get mobility. They must of started receiving mobility before they retired for it to continue after the reached pensionable age.
The biggest fraud comes from within the government itself. There may be the odd individual scamming benefits, but that has nothing to do with PIP. I'm afraid the whole benefits fraud is ramped up by the government and media. I'd prefer to look at exactly what the government is spending our taxes on.
PIP has nothing to do with whether a person is working or not. If they want to tackle out of work teens they should be looking at JSA or whatever out of work benefits they get.
Just wanted voice my opinion, just for engagement to get a better understanding from everyone.
In my personal opinion, the application/ process to get PIP or other benefits is wrong. The system is the problem and I believe if that gets the focus, we wouldn't be in the situation where we are today. To many fraudulent people are abusing the system and sadly us, ' disabled' take the fall for it. I'm not asking for the system to be more strict, to be better.
My idea of the process to get enrolled into PIP/ Benefits starts when you get your official diagnosis. Within the appointments we all attended when we first overcame our problems, there should be someone present from the Government PIP to oversee the diagnosis and in that very meeting you all learn the severity. Cut this paperwork out where the person making the vital decision never meets/interacts with the sufferer.
As horrifying the recent news has been, it was inevitable. Too many people that aren't physically restricted are using the services as a crutch rather than getting the help they need. This isn't a personal attack on people with mental health issues, I'm very aware of the conditions and suffer myself and is surrounded by depression. However it burns me to my core that we just accept anyone with mental health conditions to not be capable of work. We all need distractions, something to focus on, otherwise you WILL get consumed by depression. I have a dad who I still live with who for the last year and half has slept 95% of the time. I hate it and have tried endlessly to motivate him and get him to put himself out there. But he simply refuses. So I see first hand of someone who is so mentally ill that he hides from the world. He refuses help and I know full well he isn't the only one. We're too soft. We lack discipline. We get away with far too much.
Its a problem in itself with the lack of resources to help those in need when it comes to mental health but as it is so easy to just say you're mentally ill we can't separate those who need and want help to those expecting help or refuse to seek help. Alot of people will disagree with what I say but that's fine, it's a conversation we need to keep alive so we can figure it out together.
To go back to the Labour laws, we have till 2026 to fight for what's right. Let our feelings be heard and being up ideas to better the system. Labour is having to take radical action because the system is so flawed. So let's create a system that actually works.
I would love to hear some ideas people have. Maybe we're the ones that have to step up. Let's stop people abuse our system that is supposed to protect the most vulnerable. Not 'likely to be vulnerable'.
Well said except if the aim is remission then no need to get benefits as life continues as normal. In principle I think a medical professional should, such as a GP sign all applications as they can verify truths much like an HGV license or shotgun license application. I know there’s fraud and based on sheer numbers if 1 in 10 adults of working age are on benefit, especially ones not means tested then it’s a system with flaws. Although no system is perfect why as I sit here watching a BBC disabled reporter clearly enjoying his well paid job should he get the same access to benefits ? It’s a dreadful problem with no easy solution but I’d say bring back the common sense of local knowledge and decentralise some types of benefits. I wish we could go back to being less politically correct and actually enforce by education in schools the fact that few will get rich on Love Island and the reality of life on the dole will adversely affect your mental health but you won’t get any PIP to top up. I don’t know but believe a lot of this is down to a lot of young people caught in a low expectation life. I think a lot is down to poor education and no expectations of qualifications to get good jobs. I’m hoping that next it’s a drive to improve literacy, numeracy and health outcomes.
Can't say this as a fact but that Disabled presenter won't be on disabled benefits as he's had the access to have a financially free job. I should hope that is the case but we can't know.
I fully agree aswell with the education part. I went through school and college without a clue what I wanted to do because the education system was so basic that I never got to experience all walks of life.
Of course Social media is too blame aswell as we all grow up seeing these young 'entrepreneurs' making insane money on false courses or misinformation. But that's the reality of this generation and we can't control the youth to what they should see or not. That's down to the parents but all parents are petrified of other people's opinions on how they discipline their kids.
A multitude of things are wrong but it's up to ourselves to figure it out. And it's better to figure it out together than alone.
But my point is he could apply, not whether he has. I never claimed as I didn’t regard myself as disabled with RA. I worry about the labels as it’s true it’s not the condition or diagnosis but how it affects the patient. I could have perhaps got PIP on top of my salary just because I applied that can’t be right. I just wish it was recognised that the cheats aren’t cheating the state but every single person who pays tax. Perhaps the issues are much deeper than any government can address alone and it needs a cross party consensus to drive change plus huge investment in long term projects.
Fair point, I never really thought you could apply whilst on a salary. I thought just like tax brackets once you earn over a certain amount you're not eligible to claim.
Funny you mention your story about not claiming, it took me 5 years to give in. I always saw it as something embarrassing to claim and was also afraid of the labels. It just got to a point no matter how good I was at my job, wherever I may be, on the days my flare ups were so painful that I could barely walk that every job has sacked me. It is only recently after 5 years that I completely broke apart and essentially gave in. I hate it everyday and still trying everything to get a suitable job but with where I am based there is just no opportunities.
However I'm still trying, to piece all the pieces back together and prove to everyone that looked at me like a weak individual to be better than they could ever be. Even my local council is struggling to get me work as they have way too many people that they're overseeing that are more eligible in a way etc.
We should all look at 2026 as a goal to prove to people we are willing to work, and if the opportunities are not there, and jobs aren't disabled supported then that's on the government not us. This is only to those who are able, not to everyone of course. Those that I severely disabled and need family members to look after them, they have every right to be supports more than anyone.
Could I ask you what you do for work? You say you're on a salary, I am intrigued to know your story. You don't have to share it here, you can always private message.
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I said ‘was’ and was the Senior Revenues Manager for the Collection of the Council Debt before a Housing Benefits Manager before that Civil Servant in Department of Education. I retired a bit early but not because of RA but had enough contributions to get full pension and wanted to enjoy life. So I worked blooming hard from aged 21 and never had a penny in benefits except family allowance as it was called then. Not much different from anyone else methinks. I’d add that benefit is not charity so no one should feel in any way bad about applying, if it’s needed to support a claimant then it’s vital that they get that support. The issue is that some simply might not need it and that is something that needs addressing. I definitely don’t think there is a huge amount of fraud but even a small amount over time is money wasted.
If you feel you have been short changed for PIP, have a read on the Benefits and Work website and apply for Mandatory Reconsideration - it's always worth a shot.
Out of interest, B&W have published the 500 health conditions and percentage success rates, or how many people get PIP for the same medical condition as you:-
I got 0 for mobility and I have severe bone deformity and an ankle they want to replace. The question asked if I could walk 50 yards or so, (I can't remember the exact distance) and with my medical insoles, ankle support, pain killers and walking stick I can. I'd fear someone lurking and taking a picture if I lied.
Can you do this on your worst days? My understanding of filling in the form is that you have to describe how things are on your worst days. It is very depressing to do. I am very literate but found this form very difficult to fill-in as it required so much specialist knowledge. A bit like writing your own CV. Please consider reapplying with help from citizens advice bureau or similar. H
I fill it in for most days. I think I'm maybe a little too paranoid with been caught and accused of lying. I have thought about getting help from CA, but you get the form and have two weeks to fill it in. I couldn't get time off work last time.
I’m in full agreement with you, Deaconblues. It’s absolutely shocking that a Labour government would treat the most vulnerable members of society in such a callous way. PIP has the lowest level of fraudulent claims of any of the DWP benefits - less than 0.5% - and many of those that are entitled to claim it don’t bother because of how long and arduous the process is. It’s also inconsistently, and often unfairly, applied - with awards varying arbitrarily, seemingly dependent on the whims of individual assessors.
I’m very sorry that you are one of those who will be adversely affected by the pending changes. There are two organisations that offer excellent advice for disabled claimants; benefitsandwork.co.uk and fightback4justice.co.uk. Hopefully they will be able to offer helpful guidance on adapting to the new system in the coming months.
I am disgusted by the way Labour have followed the Tories into picking on the disabled. PIP is not an out of work benefit. If they want to tackle young people out of work they need to tackle JSA not being fit for purpose. I was made redundant a couple of years back. My husband insisted I should go sign on because that's what I'd paid into the system for. On the first appointment, the work assessor treated me like something she had stepped in. She did her best to humiliate and demean me. There was no assistance in finding another job. All they wanted to do was check your activity book to see if there was a way to dock your JSA. Thankfully I didn't need their help and found myself another job in weeks. However, if I was a young person starting out....
As are the elderly who are gradually ‘falling to bits’ but don’t quite fit into the disabled category. Labour might not like the disabled but boy do that hate the elderly.
I'm so sorry to hear this . Did you receive a copy of your assessment? You can write back and point out what isn't accurate . It's not a a formal appeal but it will make them look again.
I'm not sure h ow its woks from November. Will it be automatic or will they wait until your next assessment ? There is a forum Benefits and Work Forum where they can give you advice about this, benefitsandwork.co.uk
I have rheumatoid arthritis and I don't think they understand it's an autoimmune disease and its not just about joints but the crippling fatigue and brain fog.
The four points thing isn't a done deal. Not only that, it isn't four points with the current system, they will be changing the questions. Benefits and Work have an example set up that you can fill in. Currently my son has only one 4 point, but when I went through the proposed new one, he would have gathered another 2 four points.
Thank you for the link. I understand that there is no current impact statement but from the Resolution Foundation analysis, this is huge. I will respond to the consultation. I do hope health charities are collaborating in their response.
Well small mercies I guess as I don’t have to worry for myself as I won’t be losing anything. I can’t walk or even stand for more than a couple of minutes due to pain and can only rarely leave my house if essential but as my disability deteriorated after retirement age I get nothing. I’m sure those who genuinely need the extra help PIP enables should be fine especially for physical disability though I am more concerned for those whose suffering is hidden as harder to prove but equally valid.
Your post explains why clinically qualified assessments must be made, maybe with one’s own rheumy team reporting on one’s actual clinical condition seen over the time they have treated someone. That would remove the complaints & all the disappointments when people don’t get awarded the number of points they think they deserve.
After all PIP is a Benefit all tax payers contribute to isn’t it? It must be awarded professionally & fairly. A lot of people are now paying income tax once their income exceeds the Personal Allowance…..so they deserve consideration too.
Maybe in the future completely different conditions will be introduced, that will seem fairer to everyone?
Can I just say that this site has been such a help with my recent diagnosis, understanding what is happening, and knowing others are going through the same thing. Such a shame that even here people use it as an opportunity to make political points. Just to add-young people start their life in debt from their education, and can’t even afford anywhere to live, and who knows what kind of pension or support they will get when they get older. Some young people work hard, some don’t-same as older people. That’s not to say that the changes to benefits are OK either, but can’t we all be a bit kinder rather than compete.
This is a great forum and it really helps people trying to live with life changing illnesses. It never gets political. However, when politicians make decisions that massively affect disabled people we have a right to comment and ask what other people think. I'm not political. Over the years I've shifted who I vote for many times. I vote for whichever party I think will do the best for the working and middle classes. Where do disabled people fit in? This week's announcements on changes to PIP will adversely affect about 1 million people. These are people who already suffer greatly with disability which affects their quality of life. If anything, they should be given more money, not less. This has made me angry, not for my own situation, but for others less fortunate than me. We all need to focus on these people. I also feel sorry for young people today. The crisis in mental health amongst young people isn't their fault. The jobs and opportunities that my generation had (free university education, affordable house prices, lots of middle class jobs, the ability to find a purpose in life, raise a family) have all but disappeared. Things are only going to get worse for young people. The AI revolution is happening and it will lead to fewer and fewer jobs. Wealth inequality continues to widen and our kids or grandchildren will find it even harder to own their own homes. Sorry to get political, it's not in my nature, but the attack on disabled people this week has angered me.
I have had RA for about 15 years or more. Applied for Disability benefit as was struggling with work and thought I could retire. I was refused because I'm not always feeling bad and get on with things. Unless you say you can't walk and care for yourself you won't get it. Only poor mental health seems to be the priority. I work in NHS and have now retired and returned part time. Still struggling at times but no government help. Still working with others who are on PIP and Disability that live a normal life and claim struggling with MH. Not all are completely honest. That's the difficult part I think! So no benefit for me and need to stay at work at 66 years.
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Another eye opener from our favourite government , NOT
An end to my PIP Saga
My Mental State affects.... 
Snooping around the Welfare Reform Bill...
