Hi all- Hypothyroid Newbie

[PaddiSurfer]

After suffering from pretty much of all HypoT symptoms for last 6 years i came across the Ray Pest articles and Broda Barnes work. Does anyone else have experience of self treating themselves with NDT (e.g Metavive or such like) or perhaps point me to relavent threads on this forum.

My waking basal temperatures is always in region 35-36 Celsius. During the day it very rarely goes above 36.4

My pulse is usually 60-68 bpm

BP is typically 150/105.

Diagnosed as Diabetic early stages.

Vegetarian

Do not drink alcohol

Symptoms- constant fatigue, low mood, unexplaind weight gain, sleep apnea, low zest for life, muscle/joint aches , brain foggy, vertigo/balance, breathing slightly constricted, poor response to treatments ( vitamins, minerals supplementation),

etc etc

Ps In hindsight i think HypoT got worse after experimenting of and on with fasting and more recently trying to follow ZOE diet style .

My TSH (2,5) ,FT3(4.9), FT4(17.9) - strangely are within range,Cholesterol is raised though- according to Broda Barnes then go by symptoms which I have.

Full Medichecks reading with Ranges below:-

Diabetes

HBA1C

20 - 41.999 R. — 64 mMol/Mol

OESTRADIOL

41.4 - 159 R. — 45.9 pmol/L

TESTOSTERONE

8.64 - 29 R. — 8.02 nmol/L

FREE TESTOSTERONE - CALC.

0.16 - 0.47 R. —0.216 nmol/L

Autoimmunity

THYROGLOBULIN ANTIBODIES

0 - 115 R. — 22.4 kIU/L

THYROID PEROXIDASE ANTIBODIES

0 - 34 R - 22 kIU/L

Thyroid Hormones

TSH

0.27 - 4.2 R. —1.82 mIU/L

FREE T3

3.1 - 6.8 R. — 4.8 pmol/L

FREE THYROXINE

12 - 22 R. — 17.3 pmol/L

Hormones

FSH

1.5 - 12.4 R. — 3.8 IU/L

LH

1.7 - 8.6 R. —3.4 IU/L

Red Blood Cells

HAEMOGLOBIN

130 - 180 R - 135 g/L

HAEMATOCRIT

0.4 - 0.52 R. - 0.445 L/L

RED CELL COUNT

4.4 - 6.5 R. - 4.79. 10^12/L

MCV

80 - 100 R. - 92.9. fL

MCH

27 - 32 R - 28.1 pg

MCHC

320 - 360 R. -303 g/L

RDW

11.5 - 15 R. -15.3 %

WHITE CELL COUNT

3 - 11 R. - 6.8. 10^9/L

NEUTROPHILS

2 - 7.5 R. - 4.3. 10^9/L

LYMPHOCYTES

1.5 - 4.5 R. - 1.7 10^9/L

MONOCYTES

0.2 - 0.8 R. — 0.1 10^9/L

EOSINOPHILS

0 - 0.4 R. — 0.6 10^9/L

BASOPHILS

0 - 0.1 R. — 0 10^9/L

Clotting Status

PLATELET COUNT

150 - 450 R. — 275 10^9/L

MPV

7 - 13 R. - 10.2 fL

Kidney Health

UREA.

2.5 - 7.8 R -- 4.8 mmol/L

CREATININE

60 - 120 R. —70.8 umol/L

EGFR

≥ 60 R. — >90 ml/min/1.73m2

Liver Health

BILIRUBIN

< 22 R. — 16.5 umol/L

ALP

30 - 130 R. - 96 U/L

ALT

< 45 R. — 58 U/L

GGT

< 55 R — 25 U/L

Proteins

TOTAL PROTEIN

60 - 80 R — 80 g/L

ALBUMIN

35 - 50 R. — 47 g/L

GLOBULIN

19 - 35 R. — 33 g/L

SHBG

20.6 - 76.7 R. —14.2 nmol/L

Cholesterol Status

TOTAL CHOLESTEROL

< 5 R. — 5.9 mmol/L

LDL CHOLESTEROL

< 3 R. 3.66 — mmol/L

NON HDL CHOLESTEROL

< 4 R. — 4.41 mmol/L

HDL CHOLESTEROL

> 1 R 1.52 mmol/L

TOTAL CHOLESTEROL : HDL

< 6 R — 3.9 Ratio

TRIGLYCERIDES

< 2.3 R — 1.64 mmol/L

TRIGLYCERIDE : HDL

< 0.87 R. — 1.08 Ratio

APOLIPOPROTEIN A1

> 1.25 R. — 1.58 g/L

APOLIPOPROTEIN B

< 1 R. —1.27 g/L

LIPOPROTEIN(A)

< 75 R. — 7 nmol/L

APOB : APOA RATIO

< 0.7 R. —- 0.8 ratio

Inflammation

CRP HS

< 3 R. — 4.6 mg/L

Gout Risk

URIC ACID

200 - 430 R — 281 umol/L

Iron Status

IRON

10 - 30 R — 21.6 umol/L

TIBC

45 - 81 R — 61.6 umol/L

UIBC

12 - 43 R — 40 umol/L

TRANSFERRIN SATURATION

25 - 45 R— 35.1 %

FERRITIN

30 - 518 R— 102 ug/L

Vitamins

FOLATE - SERUM

> 7 R — 13.3 nmol/L

VITAMIN B12 - ACTIVE

> 37.5 R — 133 pmol/L

VITAMIN D

50 - 250 R. — 49.8 nmol/L

Any advice or pointers for this journey appreciated.

Cheers

Kully

[Buddy195 Administrator]

Welcome to the forum PaddiSurfer,

Could you please add the ranges after your blood test readings (in brackets) as these can vary between laboratories.

[PaddiSurfer in reply to Buddy195]

Hi Buddy195

Just added full medicheck with Rangers to my bio and my original post above.

Thanks

[Noelnoel in reply to PaddiSurfer]

Metavive or NDT are not an option if you’re vegetarian

[SlowDragon Administrator]

ESSENTIAL to test vitamin D, folate, B12 and ferritin levels as well

What vitamin supplements are you taking

As a vegetarian it’s extremely difficult to maintain good iron/ferritin or B12 unless testing regularly

Daily B12 likely necessary

Iron supplements possibly necessary as well

Monitor My Health (NHS private testing) now offer thyroid and vitamin testing, plus cholesterol and HBA1C for £65

(Doesn’t include thyroid antibodies)

monitormyhealth.org.uk/full...

10% off code here

thyroiduk.org/testing/priva...

Testosterone looks low

How old are you

Low testosterone can be linked to low Vitamin D

frontiersin.org/journals/en...

[PaddiSurfer in reply to SlowDragon]

Hi SlowDragon

Age 56

Currently taking : D3 , B12, Magnesium, B1,B3(niacinamide),B6 Plus wellman 50+ every other day

Just added full medicheck with Rangers to my bio and my original post above.

Thanks

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to PaddiSurfer]

Are you over weight?

HBA1C is extremely high suggesting diabetic

Very difficult to maintain good iron/ferritin on vegetarian diet

Perhaps consider eating red meat for 6-12 months and see if/how things improve

Low vitamin D

Low testosterone and low SHBG both linked to type 2 diabetes

medlineplus.gov/lab-tests/s...

[PaddiSurfer in reply to SlowDragon]

Hi SlowDragon

Thanks

Yes overweight

Height 5'7" Weight 90kg.

I avoid meat for religious reasons.

Testosterone only recently went down.

Are you able to recommend any good doctors or naturopathic doctors in west london area- I'm based in Hounslow.

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to PaddiSurfer]

My pulse is usually 60-68 bpm

Your pulse doesn’t suggest hypo

Feeling cold is a diabetic symptom

aarp.org/health/conditions-....

Get your diabetes under control and reassess in 6 months?

[PaddiSurfer in reply to SlowDragon]

Thanks SlowDragon

[PaddiSurfer in reply to SlowDragon]

In that link you shared healthunlocked.com/redirect...

- it additionally mentions Hypothyroidism as a reason for feeling cold=> Confused

Hypothyroidism occurs when your thyroid doesn’t produce and release enough hormones, causing aspects of your metabolism to slow down. One of the more common symptoms of this condition, which affects nearly 5 percent of Americans age 12 and up, is a sudden sensitivity to cold. Other warning signs include fatigue, weight gain, joint and muscle pain and a slowed heart rate.

[greygoose]

Hi PaddiSurfer, welcome to the forum.

First of all, Metavive is not NDT. It is what we call a Glandular. And we have no idea what is in it. There may be some hormone, there may not. But if there is, we can have no idea how much. And that is not an ideal way to treat hypothyroidislm.

That said, it does help some people, but usually taken along side real NDT with know hormone quantities. These can be bought on-line without a prescription but are difficult to find and supply is not guaranteed. It's all a bit of a gamble, really.

As Buddy195 says, we do need the ranges for all your results to make any sense of them. But a TSH is always a TSH and yours is not saying hypo. So I imagine that is why you've never managed to get diagnosed. A TSH says your thyroid is struggling, but you're not truly hypo until it's over 3. And doctors usually want it to be over 10 before they will diagnose. NHS doctors do not go by symptoms! They don't even know what they are.

And the problem with symptoms is that they are all non-specific - all of them could be due to 'something else'.

I'm not trying to discourage you from self-treating, not at all. I self-treat myself. But only after years of experience having aquired quite an exstensive knowledge of thyroid. You need to know what your doing. Do you feel confident that you know enough about thyroid to self-treat?

Another problem with self-treating is that it will hinder your chances of getting a diagnosis. And that could cause problems in future - if you're hospitalised or something like that. So you need to go into it with your eyes fully open, and full knowledge of the possible pit-falls ahead.

Good luck!

[PaddiSurfer in reply to greygoose]

Thanks for clarifying Metavive Glandular differences versus traditional NDT.

Age 56, Vegetarian (including dairy,cheese , not egg), dont drink alcohol.

IT programmer job.

Currently taking : D3 , B12, Magnesium, B1,B3(niacinamide),B6 Plus wellman 50+ every other day

Just added full medicheck with Ranges to my bio and my original post above.

Thanks

[greygoose in reply to PaddiSurfer]

Did you give us the ranges somewhere? Can't be much help without the ranges.

When taking supplements, you also need to take the co-factors, or the supplements won't do you much good - and could even do harm. With vit D, you need to take some form of magnesium and vit K2-MK7.

B vits all work together and need to be kept balanced. So rather than taking the odd B here and there, you'd be better of with a good methylated B complex.

Is this the mulit you're taking?

vitabiotics.com/products/we...

On here, we don't recommend multi-vits in general, but this one is particularly bad.

For a start, in the list of ingredients it doesn't tell you what form of the nutrient it contains. Not all forms are good.

Looking through the list of ingredients...

Ashwagandha: a bit iffy. Can make things worse rather than better. helvella wrote a post about dodgy botanicals the other day:

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Folic Acid: methylfolate would be better. Folic acid is the synthetic form of folate and has to be converted to methylfolate in the body. Not everyone is very good at that.

B12: it doesn't say what it is. But there's not enough of it.

Iron: taking iron blocks absorption most of the other ingredients, so your not going to get much benefit from anything. Iron should be taken at least two hours away from everything else except vit C. And there's not much vit C in this multi.

Copper and zinc: These two need to be kept balanced, but if you're hypo, you're likely to have one of them too high, and therefore the other one will be too low. And taking more of the one that is already high is not a good idea. Both should be tested before supplementing either.

Selenium: no information on what form of selenium.

Iodine: Worst of all! Nobody should self-treat with iodine, it needs specialist supervision, with a protocol set up first. What's more, you should never taking without having your iodine level checked first, because excess iodine is dangerous. And it's even worse for hypos because iodine is anti-thyroid - i.e. reduces hormone production. If you've been taking this multi for some time, it could be the cause of all your problems.

[PaddiSurfer in reply to greygoose]

Hi

Did you give us the ranges somewhere?

>> See my earlier reply : Added to my original post above and also in Bio.

When taking suppleents, you also need to take the co-factors,

>> Sorry forgot to mention I am taking K and Magnesium.

B vits all work together and need to be kept balanced. So rather than taking the odd B here and there, you'd be better of with a good methylated B complex.

>>> Thanks point taken. Will purchase a good methylated B complex.

Is this the mulit you're taking? vitabiotics.com/products/we...

>>> Yes this is the one

On here, we don't recommend multi-vits in general, but this one is particularly bad. >> Noted.My Doctor recommended it . Will bin the Wellman multi asap.

Folic Acid: methylfolate would be better. Folic acid is the synthetic form of folate and has to be converted to methylfolate in the body. Not everyone is very good at that.

>> Thanks a new

B12: it doesn't say what it is. But there's not enough of it.

>>> this is the one I use uk.iherb.com/pr/doctor-s-be...

Iron: taking iron blocks absorption most of the other ingredients, so your not going to get much benefit from anything. Iron should be taken at least two hours away from everything else except vit C. And there's not much vit C in this multi.

>>>Thanks I did not know this negative aspect of Iron.

Copper and zinc: These two need to be kept balanced, but if you're hypo, you're likely to have one of them too high, and therefore the other one will be too low. And taking more of the one that is already high is not a good idea. Both should be tested before supplementing either.

Selenium: no information on what form of selenium.

Iodine: Worst of all! Nobody should self-treat with iodine, it needs specialist supervision, with a protocol set up first. What's more, you should never taking without having your iodine level checked first, because excess iodine is dangerous. And it's even worse for hypos because iodine is anti-thyroid - i.e. reduces hormone production. If you've been taking this multi for some time, it could be the cause of all your problems.

>>> I've not taken pure iodine before other than in this multi vitamin form which was only started a week ago.

?? Question though in Dr MyHill's book it mentions that Lugal's iodine supplementation 15% 3 drops per day is a god for most people as she feels most of the population is iodine deficient. Why is there so much difference of opinion on iodine

I will get my iodine level checked and look into a

Thanks for the detailed response . Very much appreciated.

[greygoose in reply to PaddiSurfer]

Yes, I know a lot of doctors recommend taking iodine. In fact, a lot of doctors think that all you have to do for a thyroid problem is throw iodine at it! But I bet they've never suffered the consequences of excess iodine themselves!

I don't know where she gets her information about iodine deficiency, I've never heard of a survey of any kind. It's rather a bold assumption. But I did not say no-one should ever take iodine, I said you should get tested first to see if you need it - it won't help you if you don't, more is never better. AND THEN it should be taken under the guidance of an experienced practician. Taking a few drops of iodine just in case is not a good idea.

Iodine is just one of the ingredients of thyroid hormone - 4 atoms for every molecule of T4, a very small amount. And if you're hypo, and your thyroid is not making as much hormone - or none at all if you're on thyroid hormone replacement - you need less iodine, not more. It will not magically make your thyroid come alive and start functioning normally. That's just not what it does.

[Tea7light]

Hello Paddy Surfer.

I can mirror much of your story, as I was living in S Ireland when I was diagnosed with thyroid problems, by my Doc. But I couldn’t be prescribed T4 until an Endocrinologist diagnosed me.

That was a 2 yr wait …too long, so I went onto NDT. As I’d found a good book in the library, (no easy internet in 2008!)This book guided me with the Broda Barnes technique, I’d results similar to yours. My BP was lower.

The book was by Dr Barry Durrant Peatfield, that saved my sanity. The brain fogs were bad I just wanted to hibernate. He did explain about cholesterol and its important use in one’s body . Even vegetarian rabbits have cholesterol !

By 2015 I’d moved to the UK and lots of blood tests were done. I was reacting to T4. All sorts were tried, I’d vile case of hives.

I couldn’t source good NDT.

In 2020 I was able to see a good Endocrinologist, who put me on a trial of T3/T4 and the balance was just right, it was as good as the NDT, (nearly as the T1& T 2 are missing.! )

As others in this forum have pointed out we need your tests boundaries. Also living in the UK to get medical help in the majority of cases you’ll only get help if you are on T4 T3 meds.

There’s lots more to my story. Oddly I’m also a vegetarian and minimal alcohol drinker.

If you have any more questions do say.

[PaddiSurfer in reply to Tea7light]

Thanks, Reading Dr Peatfield book at the moment. I've read Broad Barnes and Dr MyHills books too..

Currently taking : D3 , B12, Magnesium, B1,B3(niacinamide),B6 Plus wellman 50+ every other day

Just added full medicheck with Ranges to my bio and my original post above.

Thanks again.

[Buddy195 Administrator]

Click on the more tab (underneath blue reply rectangle) and select edit…. This will allow you to add the ranges.

You can reply to individual members who have provided advice by clicking the blue reply tab under each response.

Hope this helps!