T3 / weight gain

[Hippyhappy234]

Hi everyone

I currently take T3 75mcg in one single dose.

I have under active thyroid / hashimotos. My biggest symptom is weight gain. I have put quite a bit of weight on this last year which has caused me to become type 2 diabetic again.

I have had some bloods taken & got the results. Please note that I avoided vit D, iron tablets 5 days prior to the blood test. T3 was also taken after the blood test.

I take vit D (spray form) zinc, selenium & 25mg solgate iron tablets & magnesium.

TSH is 0.01 mu\L (0.2-4.0)

Serum T4 is 1.7 pmol/L (11.0-22.6)

Free T3 is 5.1 pmol/L (3.5.6.5)

Serum total 25-hydroxy vitamin D level is 67.0 nmol/L >50 nmol/L indicates vit D sufficiency

Serum vitamin B12 level is 613 ng/L (211.0-911.0)

Serum ferritin level 90 ug/L (10.0-291.0)

Serum folate level 3.3ug/L (3.0-14.4)

Plasma glucose level is 8.0 mmol/L

Fasting glucose of 7.0 mmol/L and above suggests diabetes

Serum sodium level 139 mmol/L (133.0-146.0)

Serum potassium level is 4.3 mmol/L (3.5-5.3)

Serum chloride level is 103mmol/L (95.0-108.0)

Serum creatinine level is 48mmol/L (48.0-128.0)

Serum urea level 3.8mmol/L (2.5-7.8)

Lived Function Tests

Serum bilirubin level is 9umol/L (0.0-21.0)

Serum alkaline phosphate level is 96 iu/L (30.0-130.0)

Serum alanine aminotransferase level is 15 iu/L (0.0-40.0)

Serum cholesterol levels 4.5 mmol/L

Serum triglyceride levels 1.0mmol/L (0.0-1.7)

Serum HDL cholesterol level 1.7mmol/L

Serum cholesterol/HDL ratio 2.6 (0.0-5.0)

Serum LDL cholesterol level 2.3mmol/L

Serum non high density lipoprotein cholesterol level 2.8mmol/L

Acute kidney injury warning stage 0

Haemoglobin A1c level 58mmol/mol (18.0-41.0)

Full blood count (424)

Haemoglobin concentration

Below range 114 g/L (115.0-150.0)

Total white blood count 8.8 10*9/L (3.5-11.0)

Platelet count 303 10*9/L (140.0-400.0)

Haematocrit

Below range 0.351 ratio (0.36-0.46)

Red blood cell count 4.77 10*12/L (3.8-5.8)

Mean cell volume

Below range 73.6 fL (80.0-99.0)

Mean cell haemoglobin level

Below range 23.9 pg (27.5-32.5)

Mean cell haemoglobin concentration

325g/L (310.0-350.0)

Neutrophil count 5.29 10*9/L (1.7-8.0)

Lymphocyte count 2.83 10*9/L (1.0-4.0)

Monocyte count 0.38 10*9/L (0.2-0.8)

Eosinophil count 0.32 10*9/L (0.04-0.4)

Basophil count 0.02 10*9/L (0.02-0.1)

Nucleated red blood cell count 0.00 10*9/L

Do I need to increase my T3

[galathea]

Your folate is low. You might want to check out whether you have a problem with absorbing folic acid. If so you need methyl folate. My low folate is caused by a defective gene. MTHFRc677t. This is also linked to diabetic symptoms. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Once i upped the folate levels, 2 stones of weight vanished with not much effort

Just taking more t3 will push you over range and before you know it you coukd have adrenals to deal with too. ( they are taxed heavily dealing with t3)

Iron levels are not great either. Though i see you stopped the suppliments.. have you tried the bluebonnet chelated iron?

Xx. g

[Hippyhappy234 in reply to galathea]

You lost 2 stones by upping your folate. That’s amazing. How do I increase my folate levels please ?

I was taking the bluebonnet chelated iron.. the high strength 27mg. I only switched to solgar iron 25mg about 3 weeks ago as it’s much cheaper.

[galathea in reply to Hippyhappy234]

Yes, i did lose 2 stones by upping my folate levels . I take methyl folate every day. I use the one made by jarrow bought from amazon. I have also been gluten free for about 18 months. I still eat bread, cakes biscuits, but now they are gluten free. My inflammation levels have dropped to normal and i no longer have random unexplained aches and pains.

[mstp in reply to galathea]

How do you measure your inflammation levels?

[Hippyhappy234 in reply to mstp]

I don’t.. how do you even check ? Please let me know

[galathea in reply to mstp]

Doc measured crp levels. This is taken from the medichecks website......... “.....C-reactive protein (CRP) is a protein made by the liver that is released into the blood after tissue injury, the start of an infection or inflammation. HsCRP (High Sensitivity C-Reactive Protein) is a marker in the blood which is a known risk factor for heart disease. Sensitive enough to pick up even the lowest level of inflammation, this test can show whether you have damaging inflammation which is possibly affecting your arteries. Inflammation is caused by poor diet (too much sugar and refined carbohydrates), lack of exercise and stress......”

[CosmicChick in reply to mstp]

C reactive protein

[mstp in reply to galathea]

how do you know your inflammation levels have dropped?

[galathea in reply to mstp]

C reactive protein levels no longer sky high

[Singoutloud in reply to Hippyhappy234]

I would say that you need to look at you vitamins rather than increasing your T3 right now.

Folate is very low. I also struggle to keep my own levels up. Do you take folic acid regularly? I am sometimes a bit flaky with my supplements and the first thing to suffer is always my Folate even with a good diet.

Your below range MCH & MCV levels are also indicative of microytic anaemia. This means the size of your blood cells are very small and lacking oxygen. This really should be investigated further for iron deficiency or Thalassemia.

[Hippyhappy234 in reply to Singoutloud]

I don’t take folic acid as I wasn’t aware it was low until this blood test.

My GP didn’t comment on MCH & MCV

[galathea in reply to Hippyhappy234]

Mcv is low which shows low iron levels. Assuming doc already knows you need to suppliment?

[london81 in reply to Hippyhappy234]

i take igennus b complex i read that taking methly form of folate instead of folic acid can be better for those of us with thyroid issues, it has certainly help me and members of my family.

[knackersyard in reply to galathea]

That’s interesting.

I don’t want to hijack this thread, but how did you discover you had this MTHFRc677t issue? Is there a test?

I’ve had Folate deficiency for years.

I currently take 50mcg T3. When I wake up I feel Hyper. Gritting my teeth. Weird, because would have thought it should be the opposite. I feel better after I’ve taken my T3. Might all be in my head, but it’s very real & every morning.

I’ll order some Methyl Folate today, but if there’s a test for this MTHFRc677t, I would do it.

Thanks

[galathea in reply to knackersyard]

I did a genetic profile with 23 and me, but you can do the same with ancestry.com. Then i downloaded my raw data. There are several websites where you can then upload your raw data and they check it for different things. Sone you pay, some are free. Genetic life hacks.com is sometimes free, sometimes pay....

[galathea in reply to knackersyard]

Check here for feee if you scroll down... you need your raw data though. geneticlifehacks.com/mthfr-...

[knackersyard in reply to galathea]

Wow! That looks like a lot to take in for a brain dead dyslexic lazy get, but it looks like something I should try to understand.

I can’t believe I’ve ignored my Folate deficiency for so long. I think I thought of it as insignificant compared to B12 & Iron... (I’m high in Iron btw).

I eat loads of veg & have been 100% Plant based for 10 months, yet still Folate deficient, so clearly not converting.

I know from my attempts to take Thyroxine & NDT that lab tests showed I don’t convert extraneous T4 either. Are the two connected???

Anyway, my Methyl Folate arrived today, so I’ll see if I feel any difference on that & will try to understand the info you’ve posted.

Thanks!!!!

[galathea in reply to knackersyard]

Took me about 6 weeks of daily supplimentation before i realised it was making a difference. You have to just persevere though, no good trying to take double.

[lola1956 in reply to galathea]

Sorry how much methyl folate do you take ?

[Hippyhappy234 in reply to lola1956]

I don’t take anything & never have done

[galathea in reply to lola1956]

1 capsule a day of the methyl folate from Amazon.. the jarrow formulas one.

[Meanbeannyc in reply to galathea]

Why are adrenals taxed heavily with T3?

[galathea in reply to Meanbeannyc]

The rule has always been adrenals first thyroid second. You need enough cortisol or the t3 becomes a problem.... here is a link to the rt3 adrenals site, which has been around for years.... rt3-adrenals.org/t3_medicat.... Worth looking at even without an rt3 problem

[NWA6 in reply to galathea]

I think you must be joking about more T3 pushing Hippyhappy234 over range cause she’s only half way through! (53% through range)

If you’ve put on weight HippyHappy234 you might need more. If you loose weight you might need less 🤗

[Hippyhappy234 in reply to NWA6]

I will try to increase it slowly

[SlowDragon Administrator]

when on T3 make sure to take last half or third of daily dose 8-12 hours prior to test, even if this means adjusting time or splitting of dose day before test

Is this how you do your tests?

Folate is very low

Supplementing a good quality daily vitamin B complex, one with folate in not folic acid may be beneficial.

chriskresser.com/folate-vs-...

B vitamins best taken after breakfast

Many Hashimoto’s patients have MTHFR gene variation and can have trouble processing folic acid.

thyroidpharmacist.com/artic...

Igennus Super B is good quality and cheap vitamin B complex. Contains folate. Full dose is two tablets per day. Many/most people may only need one tablet per day. Certainly only start on one per day (or even half tablet per day for first couple of weeks)

Or Thorne Basic B or jarrow B-right are other options that contain folate, but both are large capsules

If you are taking vitamin B complex, or any supplements containing biotin, remember to stop these 7 days before any blood tests, as biotin can falsely affect test results

endo.confex.com/endo/2016en...

endocrinenews.endocrine.org...

Optimal Vitamin D

GP will often only prescribe to bring levels to 50nmol.

Some areas will prescribe to bring levels to 75nmol

leedsformulary.nhs.uk/docs/...

GP should advise on self supplementing if over 50nmol, but under 75nmol (but they rarely do)

mm.wirral.nhs.uk/document_u...

NHS Guidelines on dose vitamin D required

ouh.nhs.uk/osteoporosis/use...

But with Hashimoto’s, improving to around 80nmol or 100nmol by self supplementing may be better

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/218...

vitamindsociety.org/pdf/Vit...

Once you Improve level, very likely you will need on going maintenance dose to keep it there.

Test twice yearly via vitamindtest.org.uk

Vitamin D mouth spray by Better You is very effective as it avoids poor gut function. There’s a version made that also contains vitamin K2 Mk7

It’s trial and error what dose we need, with hashimoto’s we frequently need higher dose than average

Government recommends everyone supplement October to April

gov.uk/government/news/phe-...

Also read up on importance of magnesium and vitamin K2 Mk7 supplements when taking vitamin D

betterbones.com/bone-nutrit...

medicalnewstoday.com/articl...

livescience.com/61866-magne...

sciencedaily.com/releases/2...

Vitamin K2 mk7

betterbones.com/bone-nutrit...

healthline.com/nutrition/vi...

Importance of vitamin D for fighting Covid

moxafrica.org/post/the-vita...

grassrootshealth.net/projec...

[JAmanda]

Is your t4 figure correct? I’m finding that T3 doesn’t really work for me - well not if I reduce my t4. I had thought that once you start T3 you don’t need to think about your t4 level but I’m pretty sure now that I need to have both my t4 and T3 at the top end of the ranges I’ve been constantly gaining weight whilst on T3 and have awful hip feet and leg pain (neuropathy). I had thought T3 was the active form of t4 - and 10 of lio was same as 40-50 of Levo... but I don’t think it is for me. So I’ve gone back to the full dose of Levo that I was on (100) and am just adding in a little T3 (5 for now). My pains are much improved and am praying I’ve finally hit the sweet spot. I read something I think about low t4 causing water retention - that feels accurate to me, so on 100 I lose the fatty pad at the back of my neck and my feet feel and even look better. Sorry for the ramble, my point is that I’m sure I need plenty of t4 and that T3 doesn’t replace it for me.

[Hippyhappy234 in reply to JAmanda]

Interesting but I wouldn’t have a clue how to introduce T4 too.

I was on Levo in the past but it didn’t work for as I don’t convert well probably due to nutritional deficiencies

[Hidden in reply to JAmanda]

This is VERY interesting...because more and more, I realise this is also what I need to work out.

It´s often said that, once on NDT or any form of T3, FT4 is basically useless because it´s only a storage hormone so inactive.

I´ve found that not to be true.

My own experience so far (and I am still trying to figure out the optimal T3/T4 ratio for ME), is that T3 and T4 are NOT interchangeable.

My lab recently changed its ref ranges for FT3; from 1.7-3.7 to 1.7-3.2. My latest FT3 came back at 3.2 so at the very top of range according to new ref ranges.

But my FT4 came back at the very bottom of range: 0.7 (ref 0.7-1.5).

TSH <0.01 but basically useless when on T3+T4.

However, with these labs, I had some distinctive hypo symptoms such as fluid retention, weight gain, puffy eyes, dry, itchy skin, and cold hands and feet.

Since I´ve read a lot, and self-medicate, I decided to add more levo while not decreasing T3. Call it an experiment. It took an additional 50 mcg levo (25 mcg upped to 50 after a few weeks) daily to resolve symptoms. I also decided not to be so lab-obsessed but to go by symptom-relief.

I could add that, when I tried to raise T3 instead of T4, I ended up feeling hyper.

Based on my own experience, I don´t believe in the following statements:

1. as soon as you add T3, you have to decrease levo as T3 is much more potent ;

2. 5 mcg of T3 = 20 mcg of levo;

3. when on T3 + T4, or NDT, FT4 levels don´t matter as T3 is the truly active thyroid hormone.

For me, that is simply not true. I need my FT4 at least midrange (possibly even higher). But, one thing I can say for certain: when my FT4 levels drop below 1 (ref 0.7-1.5), I feel worse. Nothing helps except adding 25 -50 mcg of levo. Once my FT4 is >1, symptoms subside. Ideally, it should be around 1.2. I cannot explain it, but I need to keep an eye on both my free Ts (not just FT3). Although levo only (even 200 mcg daily) never made me symptom-free, I cannot completely disregard FT4 levels as they seem to play a role in my wellbeing...even though it´s been 22 years since I was diagnosed with Hashimoto´s, it feels like I´m still at the beginning of a very long journey...! I don´t think I´ll ever be able to fully explain it...levo only was a nightmare; yet, I cannot completely disregard my FT4 levels if I want to feel optimal...!

[JAmanda in reply to Hidden]

A month on, I’m sure I should never have reduced so much my t4 when adding in the T3. It’s given me months of pain. I was slightly over range on 125 t4. Should have taken it down only a tiny bit and introduced T3 slowly. Now doing 100 t4 and 12.5 T3 and don’t feel bad at all pain wise. My stomach however is a total mess. So my next journey will be to look at the gluten dairy malarkey.

[DandyThyro]

I know your folate is low, this is more for anyone else reading this and noting that increasing folate can help weight loss: my folate has been above range for years and I'm stones overweight: always check it before supplementing.

[Hidden]

Are you sure weight gain caused you to become diabetic again and not the other way around? I was diagnosed with insulin resistance pre-diabetes a few years ago and that made it impossible to lose weight even on optimal doses of T4 + T3. I could not lose any weight until I found a way to get my blood sugar and insulin levels down.

As a result of my more than 20 year long struggle with endocrine disease (it started with Hashimoto´s), I have found two hormones to be the worst culprits when it comes to excessive weight and inability/difficulty losing weight: insulin and cortisol.

[Hippyhappy234 in reply to Hidden]

Hi

Sorry for the late reply. Can I ask if you did manage to lose weight

[Hidden in reply to Hippyhappy234]

Yes, I did. See my reply below.

[Curtain96 in reply to Hidden]

Can I ask how you lowered your Insulin levels & blood sugars? Thank you

[Hidden in reply to Curtain96]

Yes, I combined two supplements - berberine (Thorne, 500 mg x 3) combined with PharmaNord Chromium. That worked wonders for my weight loss.

[Hippyhappy234 in reply to Hidden]

Can I ask how they were taken? 1 with each meal. Is pharmanord chromium available online. Thank you

[Hidden in reply to Hippyhappy234]

Yes:

pharmanord.co.uk/all-produc...

I took the recommend dose - 1 capsule per day. Plus one capsule (500 mg) of Thorne Berberine with each main meal. Thorne says to take two capsules daily. However, I had read that 1500 mg of berberine daily was effective for blood sugar control and insulin resistance so tried that and it worked really well.

[Hippyhappy234 in reply to Hidden]

I have just ordered the chromium.

Where is the best place to purchase the Thorne berberine? I’m really really struggling to lose weight so I really appreciate your help

[Hidden in reply to Hippyhappy234]

I order mine here but I´m sure it´s available on other websites; I remember seeing it on Amazon.com but I prefer to order from the EU to avoid import duties:

yourhealthbasket.co.uk/inde...