Armour NDT Problems

[Kevybob]

Hi Everyone

After seeing a private homeopath a month ago, he prescribed me half a grain of Armour rising to 1 grain after a month (I am due to increase to a grain this weekend). I have been having worsening symptoms in that period, extreme exhaustion, foggy brain, lack of appetite, depression and anxiety, I have also gained about 7lbs in weight.

I am not sure if this medication is the right one for me and am worried about increasing to 1 grain (I know it's not a lot compared to what most people are taking). I have a follow up appointment with him next week. Do I ask him to change to T3 alone?

My blood tests before this at the beginning of May were:

TSH 2.78 mIU/L (0.27 - 4.20)

Free Thyroxine 18 pmol/L (12.00 - 22.00)

Total Thyroxine (T4) 82.1 nmol/L (59.00 - 154.00)

Free T3 4.13 pmol/L (3.10 - 6.80)

Reverse T3 23 ng/dL (10.00 -24.00)

Reverse T3 Ratio 14.23 (15.01 - 75.00)

Thyroglobulin Antibody 11.69 IU/mL (0.00 - 115.00)

Thyroid Perioxidase Antibodies 34.9 IU/mL (0.00 - 34.00)

Active B12 62.9 pmol/L (25.10 - 165.00)

Folate (serum) 7.61 ug/L (2.91 - 50.00)

25 OH Vitamin D 140 nmol/L (50.00 - 200.00)

CRP - High Sensitivity 3.34 mg/L (0.00 - 5.00)

Ferritin 111 ug/L (30.00 - 400.00)

I am taking Vit D, Folate, Magnesium, Selenium and B12 supplements.

He advised me to also take Tyrosine 400mg per day and Lugols Iodine ten drops twice daily, which after some advice from this site, I decided not to take.

I am aware that I have a T4 to T3 conversion problem, so by taking the Armour am I increasing my already high RT3? I am also aware that my antibodies are out of range suggesting I have Hashimotos.

I have also had blood tests for Coeliac (which proved negative), so that I can attempt to go gluten free, and Cortisol which was fine. I am awaiting results for Adrenal Fatigue.

Any advice would be most appreciated

kindest regards

[loueldhen]

I am very confused. A homeopath prescribing armour particularly with bloods as they were - didn’t show need for it? How are you aware you have a conversion problem? When I hit rock bottom I go on a meat fish veg water diet. It’s the kindest thing you can do to allow your body to heal.

[Kevybob in reply to loueldhen]

Hi thanks for replying. The homeopath says I have a "slow" or "sluggish" thyroid. Other people on here have suggested I have Hashimotos as the antibodies are above the range. My RT3 is 23, suggesting problems converting T4 to T3. Have had underactive thyroid symptoms for as long as I can remember with my foggy brain. I have also been Type 1 Diabetic for 18 years. Thanks for the diet tip too.

[greygoose in reply to loueldhen]

You know you have a conversion problem by comparing the FT4 with the FT3. It's usually pretty obvious. A meat, fish, veg, water diet is not going to heal the damage done to the thyroid by Hashi's, even if it helps other parts of your body heal.

[loueldhen in reply to greygoose]

I wasn’t aware you could have a conversion problem if you’re not taking t4? With those results on no meds I wouldn’t interfere with the thyroid I’d look elsewhere.

[greygoose in reply to loueldhen]

You can have a natural conversion problem, yes, not converting the T4 made by your thyroid into T3. And, that TSH says the thyroid is struggling.

[Kevybob in reply to greygoose]

those blood tests were also taken before lunchtime, which probably makes a difference

[greygoose in reply to Kevybob]

The TSH is highest early in the morning, and drops throughout the day. So, as doctors only look at TSH, in the main, we always advise having the blood draw early in the morning.

[Kevybob in reply to loueldhen]

forgive me if I am wrong, but doesn't the thyroid itself produce T4 which needs to be converted to a more useful T3 to get into your cells? Mine is not being converted to the optimum level. Also Armour NDT contains a lot more T4 than T3

[loueldhen in reply to Kevybob]

Yes thyroid produces mainly t4 and some t3. T4 then gets converted by lots of organs to deliver t3 at the point of use. 2.7 is not a brilliant tsh but very early days for indicating a thyroid problem. My life was destroyed by taking t4. These hormone replacements have a very serious impact on your body and I would be very happy with those thyroid results. Many years ago before I was diagnosed as hypo I was ill and my only way of getting well was by diet. With hindsight I’d say I had leaky gut which causes havoc with lots of things. It can’t be cured with a pill only lifestyle. Clearly your management of your diabetes should take priority.

[Kevybob in reply to loueldhen]

I am trying to stay away from using T4 on it's own, as I feel my production is ok, it's just the T3 and the antibodies causing me concern at the moment. Armour has more T4 than T3. which is one of my reasons for thinking about using T3 if possible. My diabetes is always my number one priority, but I feel in myself it is being compromised by my thyroid issue. So as far as I am concerned it is all linked

[loueldhen in reply to Kevybob]

If your antibodies were in the hundreds or thousands it would be a worry but again they're marginal. I live at the bottom of the T3 range - they're just ranges. I go by how I feel but I don't think these results are telling you you have a thyroid problem. Your adrenal fatigue tests will hopefully throw up some clues.

[Kevybob in reply to loueldhen]

All my symptoms are pointing towards a thyroid issue even if my blood tests are not conclusive enough to be taken seriously by my GP. So I too am going by how I feel. It may very well be something else, but the hundreds of blood tests I have had over the last 15 years have not found any other reason for how I feel. 3 times in that period I have ended up walking out of my GPs surgery with antidepressants. I believe this is a common occurrence. I also developed Barrets Esophagus due to undiagnosed acid reflux over the last 6 years. All my energy goes into working, leaving nothing to give to anything else. Not the life I want to live. Also being a Type 1 diabetic is frustrating because any problems you have are conveniently attributed to that condition. just to get you off the system. I have lost 3 relationships in this period due to a lack of understanding and patience. So I am determined to fight this till the end. Thanks for your helpful and inspiring comments loueldhen

[loueldhen in reply to Kevybob]

The restricted diet I have only done at times in my life when feeling at a last resort (or when trying to get pregnant). I went gluten free (actually grain free cos the gluten free processed crap

is just that) and was surprised that the acid reflux I had lived with for years disappeared in a few days and a persistent cough I had for six months also disappeared and comes back within hours if I relapse. Food is very powerful. Endos do not like to prescribe t3 because the body can use it like a drug but i understand it is used in the treatment of depression. Tampering with hormones is playing with fire. Go gently.

[Nanaedake]

I don't have Hashimotos but if they were my results, I would have waited and retested in a few months as your TPO antibodies are only very slightly elevated. I think I would have tried going gluten free and taking selenium. Did you check blood sugar levels, insulin function, HbA1c, liver and kidney function?

[Kevybob in reply to Nanaedake]

Thanks for replying. I have been taking Selenium for about 10 weeks, with Vit D, Folate, B12 & Magnesium. I am type 1 diabetic, so have the other tests every 3 months. My blood pressure is erratic and am seeing a cardiologist. Also had ultrasound on my kidneys, which ruled out any problems caused by my blood pressure. I am in the process of going gluten free, as firstly I got tested for coeliac before adopting the gluten free diet. got the results this week, which proved negative.

[Nanaedake in reply to Kevybob]

As the results you've given were taken before starting any thyroid meds, they are in the normal range for someone without thyroid disease who is not on thyroid meds. The very slightly raised antibodies may indicate Hashimotos thyroiditis but your health profile is complex and other factors can cause a lowish FT3. I would be reluctant to take thyroid medication unless necessary as you already have to carefully balance hormone levels with other conditions. Even when thyroid hormones are needed, they are not a quick fix for tiredness, weight gain and other symptoms.

Unfortunately many conditions share symptoms of thyroid disease so without definitive biochemical results it can be difficult to work it out. Do retest in 3 to 5 months to find out if antibodies have risen. Personally speaking, if it were me, I would hold off taking the thyroid meds.

[greygoose]

You're feeling ill because you're under-medicated on half a grain. Normally, one increases NDT by 1/4 grain every two weeks. Waiting a month on half a grain is bound to have an effect.

You do have a conversion problem, and you do have high-ish rT3 (which could be due to many, many things), but those labs were done on T4 only. Your labs on NDT are going to be completely different. So, wait until you see them before deciding that it's not for you. You don't have to go onto T3 only to bring down rT3, just reduce the levo. How much levo were you taking before going on to NDT?

[Kevybob in reply to greygoose]

thanks greygoose. I think that is good advice. Although I was never on Thyroid meds before the NDT

[greygoose in reply to Kevybob]

Oh, sorry. I misunderstood. Anyway, do post your new results when you get them. Be interesting to see them.