What kind timeline are we looking at? - Advanced Prostate...

Advanced Prostate Cancer

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What kind timeline are we looking at?

KinkyPinky profile image
10 Replies

Father in law, stage 4

Prostate cancer, Clinical: Stage IV (T2c, N1, M1c)

Stage IV (T4, NX, M1c, Gleason 8-10)

a 77 y.o. male, diagnosed with adenocarcinoma of the prostate with metastatic lesions to the bone and local bladder invasion, who initially was seen by Dr. in Urology for urinary symptoms, including frequency, urgency and incomplete emptying. At that time his PSA was elevated at 34.1. He also had an abnormal digital rectal examination with findings of an enlarged prostate. He underwent a transrectal ultrasound-guided biopsy of his prostate gland which showed prostate adenocarcinoma. He also had left iliac lymph node biopsy consistent with poorly differentiated adenocarcinoma with prostate primary. This was followed by CT scan of the abdomen and bone scan. The CT abdomen confirmed an enlarged prostate, as well as nodular hyperdensities in the bladder lumen and borderline enlarged iliac chain lymph nodes bilaterally. Patient underwent cystoscopy and bladder mucosa biopsy on 11/24/2015, which was positive for prostate adenocarcinoma.

Patient completed 6/6 doses of Taxotere on 4/15/16.

He remains on lupron, changed from 22.5 mg Q3 months to 7.5 mg monthly in December 2016.

He had restaging scans with CT C/A/P and bone scan on 2/26/18, which found no progression of disease. He was seen on 8/24/2018 and his PSA level was seen to be increasing. He was started on Xtandi at that time. After insurance approval, he started the pills on 9/2/18. He began having worsening fatigue so he decreased dose to 120 mg and continued with monthly Xgeva and Lupron..

He began having yet again worsening fatigue and has decided to stopped therapy with Xtandi in early September 2019. His PSA began to rise and he started treatment with Apalutamide on 1/15/2020, but discontinued in June 2020 after developing a rash. Foundation One testing was done and resulted showing that he would benefit from a PARP inhibitor and therefore started treatment with Olaparib on 8/20/2020. He was having difficulty with diarrhea and was dose reduced to 75 mg PO BID on 10/13/2020. He later completed palliatve radiation therapy to the prostate and inferior ramus on 01/20/2021. The Olaparib was then increased to 200 mg PO BID in January 2021 following completion of radiation. He began having significant aside effects including headaches and diarrhea and per the patient's request the medication was discontinued on 6/29/2021. Since stopping, his previous symptoms has resolved.

He underwent restaging scans in July 2021. He was noted to have new foci of osteoblastic metastatic disease in the left scapula and left proximal femur on bone scan. On CT scan of the chest/abdomen/pelvis there was progressive osteosclerosis in the left pelvis suggesting osseous metastases. Decision was made to switch therapy to Jevtana with prednisone. He received his first dose on 8/27/2021 and has also continued xgeva and lupron every 3 months.

Interim History: Patient presents to clinic today for follow up. He is feeling okay, but "lousy" compared to last few visits. He mentions that he was recently having issues again with blood in his urine. He followed up with his Urologist and had to increase the size of his catheter. That seemed to help a bit. He has been having issues with both constipation and diarrhea. His appetite is stable. No recent fever. He feels overall fatigued. Denies any pain on today's visit. He would like to still pursue treatment today but wanted to review scans at next visit and based on results, pursue just lupron alone. He does not wish to continue with chemotherapy after today.

Past Treatment:

- Docetaxel x 6 cycles 12/29/2015- 4/15/2016

- Xtandi 9/2/2018- 9/2019

- Apalutamide 1/15/2020- June 2020

- Olaparib 150 mg PO BID started on 8/20/2020, dose reduced to 75 mg PO BID on 10/13/2020, discontinued due to side effects on 06/29/2021

- palliative RT to prostate and inferior ramus on 1/20/2021

Current Treatment:

- Cabazitaxel/ prednisone started 8/27/2021

- Lupron every 3 months

- Xgeva every 3 months

Past Medical History:

Diagnosis

Date

Acute blood loss as cause of postoperative anemia

10/31/2018

BPH (benign prostatic hyperplasia)

CAD (coronary artery disease)

2012

LAD stent in New York. 2nd DES distal to previous stent 4/2018.

Cancer

Prostate

DDD (degenerative disc disease), lumbar

DDD (degenerative disc disease), lumbar

Duodenal ulcer

Perforation

GERD (gastroesophageal reflux disease)

Hematuria, gross

NSTEMI (non-ST elevated myocardial infarction)

4/17/2018

OSA on CPAP

does not use cpap

Osteoarthritis

Perforated ulcer

1995

Prostate cancer metastatic to bone

Stage IV adenocarcinoma of prostate T4N1M1b with bone mets and local bladder invasion

Lab Review

Office Visit on 12/10/2021

Component

Date

Value

Ref Range

Status

White Blood Cell

12/10/2021

5.5

4 - 10 10*3/uL

Final

Red Blood Cell

12/10/2021

4.13*

4.6 - 6.1 10*6/uL

Final

Hemoglobin

12/10/2021

11.6*

13.5 - 18 g/dL

Final

Hematocrit

12/10/2021

35.8*

41 - 53 %

Final

Mean Cell Volume

12/10/2021

86.6

80 - 96 fL

Final

Mean Cell Hemoglobin

12/10/2021

28.1

27 - 33 pg

Final

Mean Cell Hgb Conc

12/10/2021

32.4

32.0 - 36.0 g/dL

Final

Red Cell Dist Width

12/10/2021

17.5*

11.5 - 14.5 %

Final

Platelet Count

12/10/2021

294

150 - 400 10*3/uL

Final

Differential Type

12/10/2021

Automated Diff

Final

Neutrophil

12/10/2021

76

%

Final

Lymphocyte

12/10/2021

12

%

Final

Monocyte

12/10/2021

9

%

Final

Eosinophil

12/10/2021

1

%

Final

Basophil

12/10/2021

2

%

Final

Abs Neutrophil

12/10/2021

4.17

1.8 - 7.0 10*3/uL

Final

Abs Lymphocyte

12/10/2021

0.66*

1.2 - 4.0 10*3/uL

Final

Abs Monocyte

12/10/2021

0.52

0 - 0.8 10*3/uL

Final

Abs Eosinophil

12/10/2021

0.08

0 - 0.5 10*3/uL

Final

Abs Basophil

12/10/2021

0.09

0 - 0.2 10*3/uL

Final

Nucleated Red Blood Cells

12/10/2021

0

0 - 0 /100

Final

Tumor Markers

Lab Results

Component

Value

Date

PSATOTAL

57.9 (H)

11/19/2021

PSATOTAL

52.5 (H)

10/29/2021

PSATOTAL

44.6 (H)

10/08/2021

My questions are mainly from my wife;

Such as what should we expect?

Will this be quick or will they have more time?

Given the numbers, I am unsure of how to read the projections and the oncologist said in August that WITH chemo 6 months to a year and without chemo 6 months or less (but the doctor had his eyes closed and his head back while saying this so....I dunno)

Even during the course of chemo therapy his PSA continues to rise[and by rise i mean go up and then go up by double what it was and so on...such as goes from like 50 to 60, then 75, 85, 105, etc]

Father in law is having to self cath that in the past two weeks went from every 3 hours round the clock to every hour and a half, two hours max and is having a lot of pain in area of the kidneys when the urgency to urinate presents and also when the bladder contracts to evacuate. He seems very dehydrated. He's passing a lot of clots in his urine and feces (come about an inch and a half long) and urology states the urinalysis shows no infection and that the clots might be due to the bladder being irritated and they suggested a suprapubic permanent catheter (which my FIL was very against, but during his tele-med appointment friday he has decided to try the SP cath and urologist is scheduling this)

He hasn't eaten anything as the nausea, dizziness, and vomiting have become too intense. He is also on a pendulum of constipation and diarrhea and these side effects are worse after the second round of 6 chemo treatments.

What are we looking at here? What sort of projections do you estimate? Will he "get better"....as in will this nausea, dizziness, vomiting, bowel trouble ease up or will other symptoms arise and/or persist?

sorry for the wall of text, but you all have been very helpful and supportive and in this current leg of the disease, we are all trying to figure what comes next or what to anticipate...and dare I say if any of these bouts/stages normal; Father in law has a DNR in place and we're trying to make him as comfortable as we can, but my wife worries about how his illness will affect our five year old as father in law lives in the house with us)

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KinkyPinky
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10 Replies
LearnAll profile image
LearnAll

Its not possible to predict length of survival in such a complex case. However, many members on this forum did recover ...one example is "Great John".Coming to question about effect on children of a grandparents illness. It may or may not be harmful depending on child's perception and reaction to it.

A totally sheltered child of a Great King was not allowed to see anything tragic or unpleasant. When he was a teenager, he was going in a chariot but could get a glimpse of people carrying a dead body of a person. After that, he could not stop thinking of death and meaning of life. He left the palace and went in wilderness and finally achieved "enlightenment" The world knows this man as Buddha now. He has over a billion people who are his followers.

My opinion is that a child should be exposed to both pleasant and unpleasant aspects of life with explanation given by parents. That will give him full perspective about life and make him a matured adult. He might learn that when a grand-parent or parent is sick, the right thing to do is to help and take care of him/her. Its teaching by setting such example. Just my opinion..i may be wrong.

in reply to LearnAll

Very fine ! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼🙏❤️💔

Stoneartist profile image
Stoneartist in reply to LearnAll

Nice one!!!

🙏🙏

KinkyPinky profile image
KinkyPinky

OK! Sorry about that! We were wondering what sort of outlook to expect in the coming weeks and months. The patient is 77 with Prostate cancer, Clinical: Stage IV (T2c, N1, M1c)

(T4, NX, M1c, Gleason 8-10) and just finished 6 rounds of Cabazitaxel; He was diagnosed with Stage IV prostate cancer in November of 2015. What is the survival rate for patients in year six? What will year six look like? What sort of things should we prepare for? His cancer has spread to the bone on his hip, rib, shoulder, lower spine and possible the lung (body scan will be 12/29/21)...

Welcome KinkyPinky! The poor guy! I feel for him. Timelines are not given . I also was #4 T-4 gl 8 at 53 years old in 2015. No two of us are exactly the same. I am sorry what this hellacious disease is doing to him . I hope that the lungs are not involved. There is no way to gauge time .. Take things one day at a time. Love is always good . Others here can advise you. I wish you all peace in these trying times. If he declines and it becomes too much around the child he might need hospice. How much can a guy take. We will all reach a point in which the pain becomes too great . Then only mercy is called for and it shall be received. This is a hard lesson for anyone . Take care 💔🙏

Spyder54 profile image
Spyder54

First, I have no medical background. From experience only, each man presents differently, and each man responds differently. We have Men here with over 20 years with stage 4PCa.Scanning is key. Kwon of Mayo would say get a PET scan. Auxumin, or Galium, or Phy. You cannot fight what you cannot see. He and other Radiologists have had great success w SBRT of bone mets and seen a quick drop in PSA. That may not be the end of it, but it buys you time. If you want to live, the triple ADT barrage of Lupron + Zytiga+ Pred should buy you more time. Weight training should buy you more time. Keep your stress level low wiith Meditation and being grateful should buy you more time. “ It all works, but nothing works well” is my thinking.

Best of luck my Brother,

Mike

KinkyPinky profile image
KinkyPinky in reply to Spyder54

The real bitch of it is his shortness of breath (which is what leads me to believe the lungs are involved); it seems there may be an interstitial lung, because he cannot take out the garbage (less than 10 pounds) without gasping for air and/or needing to as he says "rest my ass" or "sit my ass down". :/

j-o-h-n profile image
j-o-h-n

He's in the ring fighting a much bigger opponent than he's used to. We here never make a prediction on whether someone gets knocked out or goes 12 rounds and wins by decision.Make sure you take him to the best Medical Oncologist you can find and follow that doctor's recommendations. Do not keep asking about longevity cause only God knows the answer to that question. As far as you five year old is concerned, that's his/her Gramps and he/she should be with him so that they both can enjoy each other's company. You never mentioned your location so that some of our members may be able to recommend a great M.O. in your area. So keep the faith, support him between rounds and may he end up victorious......

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Wednesday 12/22/2021 8:0 PM EST

KinkyPinky profile image
KinkyPinky

I had to rush him to the hospital; He called me at work, and my wife was home with our newborn, so he asked me to take him. He has severe dehydration and passing clots in his urine (even with the catheter) and his vitals and bloodwork since his final chemo treatment two weeks ago have been, in the words of his doctor today: "crazy and all over the place".

He was admitted to the hospital and they will do the full body scans while he is there, rather than have him do them on his scheduled date (which would have been in a week anyway) , so then we should know a lot more on the progress of his disease.

j-o-h-n profile image
j-o-h-n

To Members: Re: MaleCare donation.

I don't want a medal but I contributed money in the beginning of this month. I just want to say the information and camaraderie you receive here is worth it's weight in gold. So for the Holiday season write out a check or charge an amount to your credit/debit card to keep this wonderful organization up and running every day of the year. Thank you!!!

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor

j-o-h-n Wednesday 12/22/2021 11:59 PM EST

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