My daughter has been unwell for several months, we tried to go through GP but they were useless. Not sure we’re any the wiser as to what’s causing her symptoms. May a fluttering Thyriod, maybe and infection maybe maybe 😩 It’s so frustrating!
If nothing screams out THATS the cause then I think we’ll have to go down the counselling route.
TSH 1.43 (0.27- 4.3)
FT4 17.7 (12-22)
FT3 5.1 (3.1-6.8)
T4 63 (66-181)
TgAB 12.2 (0-115)
TPOAb 18.3 (0 - 34)
Vit D 73.1 (50 -175) supplanting for 2mths)
B12 109 (37.5-188)
Ferritin 31.5 ( 13-150)
Folate 33.7 (8.83-60.8)
Haemoglobin 134 (120-160)
Mean corpuscular haemoglobin 31.7 (26-33.6)
RBC 4.24 (3.8-5.8)
Mean corpuscular volume 93.8 (80-99)
Basophils 0.11 (0-1)
Monocytes 0.66 (0.2-1)
WCC 7.91 (3-10)
Neutrophils 4.23 (2-7.5)
Lymphocytes 2.27 (1.2-3.65)
Platelet count 357 (150-400)
Red cell distribution width 13.3% (11.5-14.4)
Haematocrit 0.398 (0.35-0.44)
Eosinophil 0.61 (0-0.4)
Any thoughts would be very much appreciated. My daughter is exhausted, very low mood and no drive for life 😔
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Her numbers look very good. Diabetes can be a problem but she is rather young to have type 2 diabetes. There’s nothing obvious from a thyroid viewpoint.
Nothing in particular other than it is associated with tiredness. Other obvious causes like hypothyroidism and anaemia look unlikely based on the blood tests. Are there other signs or symptoms apart from 'exhausted, very low mood and no drive for life'? With just these symptoms it could be anything.
Her symptoms just echo my own just not as fierce yet. But certainly no conversion issues like myself. You’re right, it could be anything, at least this is something that we can keep an eye on but not be overly concerned and look at any other causes and/or go down a mental health route.
TSH, FT4 and FT3 seem to be OK, what one might expect to see in a normal healthy person. However, can you check the result for Total T4 63 (66-181), I can't get my head around a below range total T4 when Free T4 is 57% through it's range.
TPOAb 18.3 (0 - 34)
That might be worth keeping an eye on. I've had several antibody tests over the years - I don't have Hashi's - and my level has always been between 6 and 11 or 12.
Ferritin 31.5 ( 13-150)
Ferritin is low and could be causing fatigue. Her haemoglobin, MCH, MCV and RBC are all within range so don't suggest iron deficiency anaemia. Article about low ferritin:
Vit D - continue supplementing, aim for 125nmol/L then continue with a maintenance dose to keep at that level. Don't forget important cofactors magnesium and Vit K2-MK7
The range for B12 look like it's for the active rather than serum test. It could do with being closer to the top of the range. MCV & MCH are also heading toward the top of the range which could indicate enlarged blood cells.
If she doesn't eat much in the way of animal products i.e. meat, fish, eggs & dairy then she could probably do with a B12 supplement. Solgar do a good sublingual that dissolves quickly under the tongue.
If diet is not an issue it would be worth monitoring b12 levels for a downward trend in case of absorption issues such as pernicious anaemia. However if this is the case it isn't wise to supplement b12 as the results will show a false high for months.
Funny enough she started supplementing in about March and she had a vitamin test in April which meant her B12 was 900 and something. So she stoppped that and the above is the result without supplementing.
I felt the same way Very exhausted very tired so when I went to the doctor the doctor put me on a pill called hydrocortisone works the best has some side effects but you have nothing but energy gain a little weight and you eat more ❤️
Very sorry to hear what your daughter is going through and yourself supporting her.
I see there is no cortisol test result in your list. This causes fatigue and low mood too. Just a thought. I had very low cortisol when I was severely compromised with weakness and low mood too.
If you get it checked it needs to be a 9am blood draw or NHS will not accept it.
Thanks Pammy 🤗 I’ll look into that next as we just need to tick the boxes. I am dead set against antidepressant so I’m looking for anything not to go down that route.
I on the other hand am fabulous ❤️Ill go back to our doc in July to discuss my successful treatment. I’ve just started back to running and weight training, loving life. Thank goodness aye, otherwise how could I possibly support my baby girl.
You’re doing well too? Still feeling the benefits of your combo treatment?
Use your GP. Get a cortisol blood form. You must go at 9am for it. At 9 am Cortisol is at its highest.
If it’s too low then you have a synacthen test. This checks your adrenals and they inject you with false ACTH. You also need the ACTH bloods done. If you pass it’s not Addison’s which is primary. If you pass and your cortisol remains low and ACTH is low then it could be secondary adrenal insufficiency. I was given hydrocortisone steroids but they acted the opposite of what they’re supposed to do by sending me to sleep all the time. I was taken off hydrocortisone thankfully. No one wants steroids unless it’s absolutely necessary.
So get your GP to give you a blood form for cortisol at 9am. And go from there.
So you think start with the blood test? Just reading up about saliva and urine too. I’m going to make an appointment to go back to GP and discuss results. See if there are any other tests for inflammation/parasites ect.
You can pay for saliva tests I believe. But you’d still have to get a cortisol 9am blood test done if the saliva was low as if low you must have a synacthen test to check the adrenals.
Hi . It is worth checking her cortisol, sodium and potassium levels to exclude adrenal insufficiency. I was extremely exhausted for 16 months and I almost died, but thankfully I ended at A&E where I was diagnosed with Addison’s Disease and I get better within hours/days after starting the treatment. My GP had no clue at al despite presenting most of the symptoms. My blood tests results were similar as your daughters.I’m thankful that I got my life back. It is a rare disease, and small chance that she have it, but worth checking. Also at 17 she may have some hormonal imbalances that affects her mood.
Thanks Hantal, good call. I’m so sorry to hear that you suffered so much before finding an answer 😔 every answer is helpful to get me thinking about what we could look into next🤗
I'm interested in your message advising T3 was the answer for your low cortisol.
Please can I ask if you lost weight and were you originally prescribed T3 to help with cortisol level?
I'm only curious as my son who is aged 10 has been unwell for a while. A recent blood test revealed low cortisol but consultant expecting it to be high as he has been experiencing weight gain. He has a further test (short syncathen test) due in July to check his level but if low again, I'm not sure where we will go from there.
I believe his metabolism/conversion is low and I am recording what he eats each day along with calories to show the consultant. He is very low as we cannot seem to manage his weight and is getting bigger and bigger. As I have Hashis, I put over 2 and half stone before I was diagnosed so I really feel for him.
Consultant wont test T3 and I checked to see if I could pay privately but private companies wont do it either as he has to be over 18. I will push when I see the consultant next as I have my T3 checked as taking levo and T3.
Apologies for the long message, I'm currently a bit anxious for him.
You must be an expert with three of you with Addison's Disease!
He had the test at 9am but they haven't sent me a copy of the results like they promised. I have been asking and I left a further message the other day. The secretary is on long term sick so no one contacting me back, rather frustrating. I will be taking him for the short cortisol test at the hospital on 1st July and will get a copy of his last blood work while I am there.
Once I get the results I'll message you if that's ok.
Please kick up a fuss & obtain that Cortisol test Monday. You could try rocking up at hospital or calling endo nurse if there is one or paging on call doctor at hospital . It is important that you know how low it is now . If he is likely to have Addison's Disease then it is very high risk that you don't know how low cortisol is now.
That he is having a Short Synacthen test . Is likely to mean that his Cortisol test came back low - so they want to see his response & whether he can produce cortisol if body is stressed.
Thank you for your message. I have been making sure he doesn't get stressed and when not well, I've not sent him to school as I was concerned as didn't know the level. He has been a lot better over the last few days which is such a relief. I finally got a copy of his blood tests on Saturday morning and his cortisol level was 128 and the range was 150 to something, I've left the details at home! What was interesting is while his vitamin D level was commented on as sufficient, it was below the actual range given. Again I cant recall these but I will get him some vitamins. He was at his worst when we got stressed about doing something at school and while I resolved it, it was then that he became really unwell to the point he wouldn't let me cuddle him and was crying with what he said was joint & muscle pain all over. It has taken many weeks to get him to a point where he is much happier and more positive and smiling. This weekend he appeared to have no symptoms, although he still complains of feeling tired even when he wakes up. I will keep a close eye on him and won't take any chances if the symptoms flare up again. I did wonder if cortisol levels can rectify themselves or if the symptoms can come and go but as I said I am making sure he has no pressure or stress with anything at the moment. Thank you for your help.
Thank you so much for replying. I have been trying to research low cortisol and I have been ensuring he doesn't have any stress. He's not been wanting to go to breakfast club in the mornings, so I have been taking him to school at the normal time. He has a day trip with the school next week but I am now helping on the day as I want to keep an eye on him.
He is under Colchester Hospital, the paediatric gastroenterology clinic. He was referred by the dentist for acid reflux, he was experiencing stomach pain so had various tests, barium, gastroscopy but they were all clear. The doctor was going to discharge him but I was talking about my son's weight gain which seemed to be spiralling out of control and the tiredness. They ran blood tests including the cortisol but have not tested potassium and sodium. Shortly after the blood tests, that was when all the symptoms became severe and he has had a lot of time off school. He now seems on a more even level but as I said, I am making sure he has no stress in any way. The doctor was going to do another cortisol test first but I spoke to the secretary and listed all the symptoms he was having which is why they are now doing the synacthen test. Other blood tests are also to be taken at the same time as the cortisol test but the letter does not say what they are. Once they do the tests, I will ask for a copy.
He has also had an abdominal CT scan but it has taken me since end of Feb to get to this stage (not had results for CT scan). I have been phoning the hospital constantly, to the point one nurse knows my voice so I have been really pushy and can't wait for 1st July. I have called the nurse who is doing the synacthen test but she only does it on a Monday, so I have been calling to see if there were any cancellations.
I have read a lot but the doctor said usually weight loss is due to low cortisol and as he just wanted to do another blood test as opposed to the short cortisol test, I had thought cortisol levels could change.
Thank you for letting me know the level will not rectify itself and for clarifying about no stress, keep away from those who have colds or are ill. He is always with me and I know now, if he has those symptoms again I will take him to A&E, I won't mess around. I have been so worried but I think people are thinking I'm being over protective but having been reading information, I wanted to be cautious.
His cortisol test was at 9am, result 128 (range: 155 to 605). I forgot it is supposed to be at it's highest level.
He has been experiencing lots of headaches, sometimes really severe, enough to make him sweat and cry. I have given him calpol, plenty to drink, taken him to bed and stayed with him. Made appointment with opticians, his sight and the health of the eyes are good, he failed the peripheral test a number of times and he has been referred to Colchester Hospital to have the back of his eyes checked.
He has been drinking excessively, this has now slowed down and now normal fluid intake but he has just had a blood test for diabetes. I'm trying to keep on top of everything and follow through as he is only 10 years old. He does seem more of his happy self at the moment but from what I have read that can change at anytime.
Apologies for rambling, I don't know anyone who has low cortisol, so thank you and I may take you up on that offer for a chat on the phone. It's 2 weeks to the test and then I'll be pushing for the results.
If you feel able then I am happy to speak to you before the hospital date - I can give you hot tips & perhaps give you some more ideas of where to look & tests to request.
Please continue being an assertive - stand no shit mother …
Thank you, that would be great, you made me smile! I'm doing my best but you can easily get fobbed off. I'll PM you my contact number but happy to call you at a time that's convenient. Be good to have some tips and to know what to ask for, you're a star.
I am very sorry to hear of this young persons health issues. I had no idea before taking the T3 that it would have such a positive effect on my adrenals.
It certainly has worked for me. May not everyone. Weight has nothing to do with it. Im living proof of that. I’m waiting to see my NHS Endocrinologist now. Just been weighed and I’ve lost a stone since I was last here in Feb. I put on 2st in a year. So one more to go before I will be where I was before I got taken very ill. It was never about weight for me. It’s all about energy for thyroid and strength for adrenals. I had virtually none of either. Was in a wheelchair for a while. I couldn’t walk around my house. Good job I live I a bungalow! Gripping to door frames and sliding down walls. I was in a mess. Now T3 added I’m normal. It’s brillisnt being normal Can’t wait to see what Endocrinologist says who said I have no Endocrine issues and even said I need psychiatric assessment! Rubbish. He just wanted to swerve the T3 issue and send me off into the abyss. T3 was got private through a private only Endocrinologist.
The synacthen test may say he past which means it’s not Addison’s doesn’t mean his cortisol is ok. It may be low ACTH. ACTH gives your adrenals the signal. You will get false ACTH injection when you have the synacthen test.
Keep pushing and don’t be fobbed off. Research and go private if you get nowhere with NHS.
Thank you for replying, I really appreciate it, as I'm now trying to find out as much as possible before the test and we actually see the consultant. My son is sleeping far more and not so energetic and with all the symptoms he keeps experiencing, I know there is something wrong and it is linked somehow. I just spoke to Blue Horizon and they said they do the thyroid check for under 18, which I will order as I just want to check his T3 level for peace of mind.
I'm keeping a record of everything in preparation for the consultant as you say, don't want to be fobbed off. I'll do some more research and you're right will need to go private if we don't get anywhere. I did read about T3 syndrome where thyroid levels are normal but T3 levels are low and thought there may be a link. I'll keep researching.
I take levo & T3 as taking levo alone, it's like not taking anything, just horrendous. It sounds like you have had an awful time but now coming through it. I'm pleased to hear your doing so well and wish you all the best. Thanks again.
I’m glad to hear you’re on the ball. Keep positive and focused which it’s sounds like you certainly are.
Yesterday to be absolute amazement the NHS prescribed me T3. Last month he was serving it and even said I needed a psychological assessment! These Drs can be dangerous.
Yay indeed!!!! I can’t believe it. I thought I’d have the struggle of the CCG to go through. I’ve taken one this morning and I feel so good. Got music on loud making a dance playlist and making fishcakes and spanakopita. Later eating some of it with a large glass of wine. 😉. Xxxx
I hope you find your answer, and your daughter gets better. No one knows her better than you, but is getting difficult at this age. Listen to her, and find the answer together. And go back to your GP as many time you think or ask for referrals or something. They are low on budget and very busy, you have to insist if you think is something wrong. If you have any questions feel free to ask me.
Just doing a quick read of cortisol and adrenal testing, something that is resonating is she talks about Her ‘fight or flight’ feelings. She said they seem to come out of nowhere and she needs to get away from a situation or is frozen and cannot get going. Insomnia and catching every cold going.
I am sorry to hear about your daughter, it is such a worry and I hope you get to the bottom of it.
Not sure if this helps but my son is aged 10 and is under a consultant, initially for acid reflux. My son has been gaining weight rapidly, is tired all the time, has a low mood, irritable at times but has lost that drive for life that you mention, so I know where you are coming from.
I have not yet received a copy of my sons blood results, having asked for them 3 times now but I was assured his thyroid test was fine, although they won't test T3.
A blood test has revealed low cortisol and he his now having a short synacthen test to measure his cortisol levels which is booked for July. Consultant surprised as my son shows the symptoms of a high cortisol level, so I will need to wait and see the outcome. They have said Addisons causes weight loss, which is not the case with my son.
My son also experiences headaches, upset stomach, muscle aches, joint pain but not all the time. This appears to come and go but he does catch colds easily and no sooner does he recover from one, he has another. He has also been drinking excessively and complaining of being thirsty but the diabetes blood test and glucose test shows he is not diabetic.
As others have suggested, worth having your daughters cortisol level checked. I do believe that individuals can have symptoms which do not show on the tests but it will reveal itself in time. It is hard, as a parent you know when something is wrong.
Good luck and I hope you get to the bottom of the problem.
Thanks Essexmum 🤗 It really is a worry for us mums. Her Thyriod FT3 is fluctuating so I need to keep an eye on that as I have Hashi’s and it runs in my family. I used a Thriva test and just lied about my daughters age which is not a problem as she’s close to 18. I know you couldn’t do that for your son 😩
My daughter is a slim size 8/10 so no weight gain.
I hope our GP is willing to do more testing! I’ve fought with them for 10yrs for myself and it’s draining 😩 Hope your son gets better soon, just too young to be dealing with health issues when they should be enjoying childhood 😔
Popped in m. Bless her it is good she is self aware & with some understanding and can certainly relate to her description to the letter, of fight and flight
May I ask above advice ........isn't it preferable to have the cortisol saliva test (private one) as I thought it was better indicator than urine test? please say if I'm wrong, also is it helpful for DHEA testing too?
I too have had all her symptoms, frozen yes (had it yesterday) and the flash panics to deal with which is difficult at best, and I'm old and well used to it! I do think maybe a physchological element possibly, as it can become a fear of fear thing. Difficult isn't it, how much is physical or physcological?
If you think, decide, it may be physchological too I'd like to tell you of a group that is taken from the late Clare Weeks, which so helps to untrain the mind of irrational fear But appreciate you want to discount physical aspects thoroughly - my granddaughter is 17, it's difficult age as a lot going on school exam wise, part time jobs, and hormones ! Her line is, I don't want to talk about it as it stresses me out
Thanks for taking the time to respond Jeppy 🤗 we obviously can’t rule out psychological problems. I’ll certainly be googling Clare Weeks and see if we can implement her advice 😀
My daughter was very successful in her GCSE’s and started A levels well. She works part time at the weekends. She’s been a model teenager and didn’t seem to go through much of the teenage hormone phase. But I always figured she didn’t need to as we are an open and talkative family. She’s very open with me about how she feels. We’ll have long chats about what’s going on, she self harms and I’ve seen her scars. There has been such a marked difference in her attitude to life that I find it hard not to think that something physiological is going on with her. Counselling is on the cards too but I don’t want it to be a band aid, you can’t change ones psychology if there’s something biochemically wrong.
P.s. ......bit of a viscous circle I feel re adrenal, and Fight and flight feelings which can become like a bluff! trick of mind which then taxes adrenals falsely. like being caught up in a loop, fight and flight is supposedly for e.g. When you are being chased by a bull etc, but modern living, expectations, creates it all the time especially harder for the younger, e.g. how you need to look, be cool, peer pressures, etc, so much unnecessary stress and pressure for them to handle in adolescence, Hormones aye,,, ,
I've read recently that black circles under the eyes show adrenal strain. Which I've had since I was a little girl butnwas sent to bed early instead
Iv listened to Dr John Bergman on u tube and I respect his input on many subjects, he explains the loop and adrenals
I have always had dark/purple circles under the eyes. I was a terrible sleeper as a teen/young adult. But even good sleep will not make them go. Proper Thyriod medication has helped tremendously. When under treated I really looked ill.
My daughter doesn’t have dark circles, just beautiful pale skin 🤗
My son had something similar. After tests with someone who measured the effect of different foods on his system, we cut out all gluten, yeast and sugar except for small amount of fruit, cut out cheese and mushrooms. We added a top quality supplement with 80 trace minerals and used lots of antioxidants. It made a difference immediately. Within 2 days he started to function and feel better 'brain wise'.
Yes it's all angles isn't it, lots of good wishes , There is tv add at moment for a product to alleviate dark rings 🤷♀️ Isn't it time they joined the dots lol
Im sure she will be fine, talking and love are the pinnacle I'm sure.
I've had great help from Accupuncture and mainly homeopathy too. The constitutional remedy you get for your personality type can work wonders. ( I stopped having an awful skin condition In a week which I'd had for five years and it even brought down pre eclampsia symptoms in second pregnancy ) but that's me. I reckon there is a place for everything haha I gave up nhs demetology dept when they signed me off saying avoid paper clips ( I was a stationery clerk at the time ) 🙈🙃
Well the Clare Weeks book brought together a group called " Freedom from Fear Group ". , anxiety sufferers following the very easy steps when experiencing anxiety of any type, just google Freeedom from Fear Group, . A wonderful NZ guy David Johnson set it up after his experiences, and finding a way out, I would say that it empowers you to deal with anxiety, until it slowely changes in your physchy - for me though to mention it wasn't good for me to dip into the forum, as it was a bit overwhelming and consuming. All,sorts of anxiety problems of every description and self harm, eating disorders, panic attacks etc
Maybe Good to,just learn the method and practice when needed. But yes. It is formulated from the Late Clare Weeks book , il look on Amazon
I remember the odd time when I was little and at a party or somewhere social and I'd get a panicky feeling and wondered where I was for a moment!. Strange feeling, remember it well, Some do denial I guess
the Speakmans have a few books out on all types of anxieties, phobias, haven't they
I'm sure it's a lot about feeling overwhelmed at some level,
I was so well when bringing up my children and in a secure place
Yes that’s on my mind. She supplemented for about 3wks before a previous test in April and her result was over 900. So we stopped the supplement. Now it’s dropped right back.
Lots of people who have switched from low-fat, high-carb to low-carb, high-fat or ketogenic diet have found that their anxiety and depression have vanished and their energy levels have soared. The body needs fat to work well.
For info on the ketogenic or low carb diets see the Diet Doctor website for info :
No, I’ve always warned against any low fat products and told my children to do the exact opposite of what the schools teach them is a healthy diet (I’m pretty switched on with food, balanced meals cooked from scratch)
She has no need to diet nor does she want to. Always hungry for her evening meal so I know she hasn’t stuffed herself with silly snacks at college. She doesn’t smoke, might have a few drinks if there’s a ‘gathering’ (that’s a party to you and me) but that’ll only be once every 6/8wks. Has tried some drugs but doesn’t really rate them/has a ‘fear’ of them. We’ve really tried to pin point anything and everything that could possibly be making her feel rubbish 🤷♀️
Could I add some advice, I have Hypothyroidism, it took ten years to get treatment, I was "too fat", "too Stressed" in fact "too" everything, apart from ill, until I changed doctors, from there I started treatment, but did not leave it there, after diagnosis I looked into the reasons for the health problem I had, and some of the past treatments used by doctors, Not wishing to waffle on, but I now keep clear of all artificial sweeteners, and Fluoride, IE we filter tap water and have Organic tea bags, this has made a difference. (fluoride was once used as a thyroid treatment).
My point Don't let the current doctors brush you off if you feel you are getting nowhere, and look at what you have in your house, Food Etc, to see if any products could be causing or making the problem worse, My wife has Meniers Disease and Artificial Sweeteners make her condition unmanageable, 1) last point have you considered your daughter may have Fybromyalgia as this has similar symptoms and is only diagnosed after all else is discounted, and again is made worse with artificial Sweeteners. (My Daughter Suffers from this condition).
Thanks Duncan for taking the time to respond. Funny you should mention fluoride as when she was younger she always suffered with ulcers. So we changed her to aloe toothpaste and she never had one again but she has since moved back into the family toothpaste. With regards to Artificial sweeteners we avoid them like the plague. Everything in our house is as natural as possible and I have always warned the kids against low fat. The only time we sometimes slip up is with their squash/juice because it's becoming impossible to get diluting juice that is not 'sugar free' It really grinds my gears because I'd rather my kids have sugar than artificially stuff. In our house we can eat anything we like our moto is "everything in moderation'
We have the same problem with Squash, we end up drinking a lot of water in summer, something you can try instead of Squash is Neilsen Massey Extract, you can buy it on amazon, Orange lemon Etc. its not like for like, but better than drinking a cocktail of Chemicals.
We also use a British Berkfield Water filter, Gravity type, a bit expensive to purchase around the £100 mark, but we would not be without it now.
Hi could be low stomach acid as the root cause or one if them, the MCV is 93, ideally should be below 90. The higher the MCV the bigger the red blood cells are, and related to low stomach acid as it's needed for nutrient breakdown and absorption.
The B12 is low should be at the top of the range, iron ferretin looks low also, both of these are linked to fatigue and indicate low stomach acid, other B Vitamins are also linked to fatigue too. This is where I'd look if it were me. Hope that helps...
Thanks Roadrunnergreg 🤗 She’s been supplementing for about 6wks. The last blood test showed B12 at over 900, so she stopped the spray, maybe we should reintroduce?
My MCV has always been a point or two above the highest. I’ve had low stomach acid too. Although resolved now that my vitamins are at a better level.
It is arguable that testing when supplementing is not a good idea. If you test while still supplementing, or very shortly after stopping, the levels will reflect your supplementing. If you leave it a long time, you could well find the levels have dropped below where they need to be.
Yeah I think it’s worth a look. Just need another test to evaluate ‘actual’ levels. But supplementing for a few weeks. Levels over 900 and then massive decrease when stopped. Id need to read up a bit more as I was banking on a thyroid problem. So I don’t know enough.
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