Help with supplements please

Had my first B12 injection in June 2017 for relief of symptoms of B12 deficiency but have found one injection didn't really do anything. Below result taken Jan 2017

VITAMIN B12 225 (190 - 900)

Treated with iron infusion in 2016 for iron deficiency anaemia, ferritin went up to 189 (15 - 150), MCV was 83 (80 - 98) but it was about that level when my ferritin was down at 27 and MCHC has continually been above range and still is now. Iron after the infusion was 12 (9 - 26) and transferrin saturation was 18 (10 - 30) Haematologist discharged me with ferrous fumarate to take once a day and has told GP to monitor ferritin and if it drops to 50 or below to re-refer for further infusions. Please see below details of how my ferritin has dropped:

May 2016

FERRITIN 189 (15 - 150)

Jul 2016

FERRITIN 147 (15 - 150)

Nov 2016

FERRITIN 103.5 (15 - 150)

Jan 2017

FERRITIN 98.5 (15 - 150)

Jun 2017

FERRTIIN 61.5 (15 150)

In November 2013 was found to have vitamin D deficiency, prescribed 800iu but this didn't raise my level so I have been taking 6000iu since March 2015. Do I need a maintenance dose during the winter because I have been taking the same amount all this time? Below result done in June 2017

TOTAL 25 OH VITAMIN D 68.8 (50 - 75 suboptimal)

Diagnosed folate deficient in November 2016, been taking folic acid once a week. Below result taken June 2017.

FOLATE 2.3 (2.5 - 19.5)

Magnesium was found to be low in range a few times on and off. Below result taken Jan 2017.

MAGNESIUM 0.83 (0.70 - 1.00)

Selenium was found to be low in range. Below result taken Jan 2015.

SELENIUM 0.92 (0.89 - 1.65)

Also considering taking vitamin C for adrenals and bruising and bleeding easily. I have taken some on and off that have zinc in them and zinc was found to be deficient after a zinc taste test.

Feeling awful with irregular and painful and clotty periods, hard stool, difficulty swallowing, tiredness, broken sleep, pains in wrists and knees, puffy eyes and dark rings under eyes.

Thank you

16 Replies

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  • Havana2426 Had my first B12 injection in June 2017 for relief of symptoms of B12 deficiency but have found one injection didn't really do anything. Below result taken Jan 2017

    VITAMIN B12 225 (190 - 900)

    I thought when you had symptoms of B12 deficiency then you had either 6 x B12 injections over 2 weeks followed by 3 monthly injections, or you had them alternate days until symptoms improved. I'm not sure so please check this with the Pernicious Anaemia Society forum then whatever they advise discuss with your GP healthunlocked.com/pasoc

    **

    Jun 2017

    FERRTIIN 61.5 (15 150)

    Your level is currently not low enough for re-referral for another iron infusion.

    Do you have MCV and MCH results as well as MCHC? If your MCV is below range then they should consider iron deficiency again. It needs discussing with your GP.

    For thyroid hormone to work ferritin needs to be at least 70, preferably half way through range. If you're not prescribed iron tablets, you can help raise your level by eating liver regularly, maximum 200g per week due to it's high Vit A content, and including lots of iron rich foods in your diet apjcn.nhri.org.tw/server/in...

    **

    TOTAL 25 OH VITAMIN D 68.8 (50 - 75 suboptimal) been taking 6000iu since March 2015

    The recommended level, according to the Vit D Council, is 100-150nmol/L. 6000iu daily is a good dose but I would have expected to see your level higher than that as you've been taking it for 2.5 years. You could increase your dose, but I think what's happening here is that it's not being absorbed properly. SlowDragon has covered gut/absorption problems which tend to go hand-in-hand with Hashi's in your other thread.

    Are you taking your Vit D with dietary fat for it to be absorbed?

    There are important cofactors needed when taking D3

    vitamindcouncil.org/about-v...

    D3 aids absorption of calcium from food and K2-MK7 directs the calcium to bones and teeth where it is needed and away from arteries and soft tissues where it can be deposited and cause problems.

    D3 and K2 are fat soluble so should be taken with the fattiest meal of the day, D3 four hours away from thyroid meds.

    Magnesium comes in different forms, check to see which would suit you best and as it's calming it's best taken in the evening, four hours away from thyroid meds

    naturalnews.com/046401_magn...

    Check out the other cofactors too.

    **

    FOLATE 2.3 (2.5 - 19.5) been taking folic acid once a week

    Is there a reason you're not taking folic acid daily? I believe that is the norm for folate deficiency.

    **

    MAGNESIUM 0.83 (0.70 - 1.00)

    This should improve with taking magnesium as a cofactor of Vit D.

    **

    SELENIUM 0.92 (0.89 - 1.65)

    This should improve if you take selenium, to help reduce antibodies, as mentioned in your other thread.

    **

    Also considering taking vitamin C for adrenals and bruising and bleeding easily. I have taken some on and off that have zinc in them and zinc was found to be deficient after a zinc taste test.

    We can take as much Vit C as we like, up to bowel tolerance if you want. It's recommended to take at least 2000mg daily in divided doses. A combined Vit C/zinc supplement may have the wrong balance, and if it's a fizzy one it will contain all sorts of sweeteners and nasties. Zinc should be about half way through it's range so you might be better looking at taking separate supplements, or Vit C plus a separate decent mineral complex containing zinc but not calcium, iron or iodine, or even doing a proper zinc blood test to see what your level is.

  • MCV 76.2 (80 - 98)

    MCHC 388 (310 - 350)

    MCH 27.6 (28 - 32)

  • MCV 76.2 (80 - 98)

    MCHC 388 (310 - 350)

    MCH 27.6 (28 - 32)

    These suggest iron deficiency anaemia again. Point this out to your GP and ask for the appropriate treatment -

    NICE Clinical Knowledge Summary for iron deficiency anaemia treatment (which will be very similar to your local area guidelines)

    cks.nice.org.uk/anaemia-iro...

    How should I treat iron deficiency anaemia?

    •Address underlying causes as necessary (for example treat menorrhagia or stop nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, if possible).

    Treat with oral ferrous sulphate 200 mg tablets two or three times a day.

    ◦If ferrous sulphate is not tolerated, consider oral ferrous fumarate tablets or ferrous gluconate tablets.

    ◦Do not wait for investigations to be carried out before prescribing iron supplements.

    •If dietary deficiency of iron is thought to be a contributory cause of iron deficiency anaemia, advise the person to maintain an adequate balanced intake of iron-rich foods (for example dark green vegetables, iron-fortified bread, meat, apricots, prunes, and raisins) and consider referral to a dietitian.

    • Monitor the person to ensure that there is an adequate response to iron treatment.

  • Thanks not taking dietary fat with vitamin D

  • D3 needs fat to be absorbed. You should take with the fattiest meal of the day. If you are using D3 softgels there should be some olive oil (or other oil) in them which will help and then you could take them with a full fat yogurt, cracker and butter, etc. If they're tablets or capsules with no added fat then you have to take them with a meal containing fat.

  • Thanks I have been taking a vitamin D spray and I have been taking this at night before bed so I have been doing that all wrong.

  • I don't know about sprays, I've never used them, but it does say 'for better absorption' so maybe you don't need the oil with it as it bypasses the stomach.

  • Yes it works differently mouth spray as is just absorbed directly into bloodstream in mouth

    Good for Hashimoto's as avoids poor gut function.

    I am not sure it even needs to be 4 hours away from taking Levo.

    But better to keep away just in case

  • Zinc was 16 (11 - 23) in previous blood test.

  • Half way through range is 17, so that doesn't seem too bad.

  • One injection of b12 wont do much. You need an injection a day for 2 weeks and I have recently read that you have as many as you need untill symptoms go. All these low vit results are a symptom I presume of hypothyroid. Are you taking any medications as well that could affect your vit absorption.Acid reductions meds such as ompreziole being a common culprate. You can buy B12 jabs from german pharmacy and DIY. 800 Vit D aint going to do much either. I get some vit D and K drops from nutri not sure how much you need but a lot more than 800ui. I presume that was calcichew. You need vit K with vit D so that calcuim goes to you bones not your arterys. I have epsom salt baths for magnesium not sure how affective. I fidn Dr Myhills website a good font of info for this kind of stuff.

    It also sounds like you are not on enough thyroid meds. Have you got any thyroid bloods to post?

  • AUG 2017 (150mcg levothyroxine)

    TSH 0.03 (0.27 - 4.20)

    FREE T4 21.1 (12 - 22)

    FREE T3 4.0 (3.1 - 6.8)

  • Dear Havana,

    It look a bit like to me that you are not converting t4 your storage hormone into T3 the active hormone as well as you might. Have you tried NDT or a combination of T3 and levo. Have you had any improvement on levo. There is a lot to fix here. I would suggest you start with getting your B12 sorted and tackle one thing at a time. I would advise taking no notice of B12 blood tests they are so unreliable they cause more problems than they solve. Where about in the country are you.

  • Hi yes I tried T3 with levothyroxine before, took me a year to feel better on it though. I am in south west uk.

    DEC 2015 (75mcg levothyroxine/10mcg T3)

    TSH <0.02 (0.2 - 4.2)

    FREE T4 20.3 (12 - 22)

    FREE T3 5.2 (3.1 - 6.8)

    NOV 2015 (75mcg levothyroxine/10mcg T3)

    TSH <0.02 (0.2 - 4.2)

    FREE T4 20.6 (12 - 22)

    FREE T3 5.6 (3.1 - 6.8)

    AUG 2015 (175mcg levothyroxine)

    TSH 1.20 (0.2 - 4.2)

    FREE T4 19.3 (12 - 22)

    FREE T3 4.0 (3.1 - 6.8)

  • No other medications

  • So with Hashimoto's going strictly gluten free and also using bone broth, fermented foods like kefir etc will all help heal gut.

    Meanwhile you must also improve vitamins and get back on to sensible increased dose of Levo (plus T3 probably, either under another endo or self medicating)

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