What To Do Next?

[Cam_Cam_Cam]

Hi Friends,

First post here, although I've come back to this forum a few times. I'm at a spot where, even though I know it's untrue, I feel like I'm experiencing anxiety like no one has ever experienced it before (we all know the lonely feeling).

I've been dealing with this for about a year an a half now. My anxiety is primarily somatic, but obvious being driver by something in my thoughts. Unlike most people though, the somatic drives the thoughts for me. When people ask me what my anxiety feels like, I tell them to remember the feeling the first time they had to speak in front of a large group of people... it's like that, but 24/7. Burning in my core, shortness of breath and my brain is completely unable to focus. In addition, during particularly difficult times, my brain will wake me up early each morning with some off the wall feelings/thoughts/dreams and if I try to fall back asleep, it feels like my brain is in some sort of scared/drugged state.

The oddest think about this is that it comes an goes in long form waves. I'll have really bad weeks, sometimes several weeks at a time, and then I can come back to some sense of normal for awhile.

All of this has been triggered by a brilliant idea a year and a half ago to ween off Lexapro after years of being on it. Since then I have...

Been on a litany of new medications (Lexapro again, Remeron (the worst), Seroquel XR, Buspar, Clonidine (lol), Propranolol (lol), Prozac. I am currently on a combination of Effexor XR (150mg), Lexapro (10mg) and Elavil (25mg) with Ativan on the side as needed. I try to avoid taking the Ativan as much as possible.

I've been through four different therapists and three psychiatrists (part of this is because I've moved). I've tried somatic therapy, EMDR, IFS, ANTs etc. I've read several books including Clare Weeks. I work out 3 days a week, I eat healthy, I see a therapist every two weeks.

The problem is, nothing is sticking. I understand Clare's concept of accepting, but apparently I refuse to accept that anxiety is going to be the rest of my life.

I am lucky to have the resources necessary to try all these different things, but they have cost a ton of money and time, and I don't feel much better than I did when I started this journey a month ago.

I'm now to the point where I'm considering Ketamine, or going to a psilocybin retreat because I don't know what else to do. Can anyone out there make me feel like I'm not alone. Anyone been through anything similar? Any ideas to help? Thanks all

[LoveforAll41]

Hi Cam_Cam. Argh, freaking anxiety is so annoying. I have been working on trying to accept my anxiety as well. I understand better why I feel so much anxiety around money/career/school and I don't beat myself up for feeling it but I still want to exercise or eat crap to avoid feeling it so I have a lot of work to do.

I have been doing ketamine therapy for a while now. The initial six doses were great and I felt some relief. It was grounding for me like getting better from a bad bout of the flu is. You emerge with a greater feeling of what is important and really matters. I started doing ketamine assisted therapy after the first six recommended doses where they just had me do the ketamine itself. I would like to do the therapy along with the first six if I did it again. I think anything new is worth trying.

After I have had this anxiety for so long I think I am going to have it forever... which I can accept and it is empowering for me to accept, but I still need to actually feel accepting 😬. I know we can get there. I wish you peace, hope, and strength.

[Cam_Cam_Cam in reply to LoveforAll41]

Feeling the acceptance is the hardest part, because I don't know what that actually means.

In her book, Clare gives these magical examples where she walks into a hospital like Mary Poppins, talks to someone who has severe anxiety for a few hours, and just like magic they are cured. It leaves me feeling like I missing something, even though I felt heard when I was reading her book.

I know I have anxiety. I have no idea what causes it, and I probably never will. But my subconscious is not interested in accepting it. I keep trying solution after solution because it is the only thing that gives me hope that these awful somatic feelings will go away someday.

The strangest thing for me is, I don't have racing thoughts. The only thoughts that trigger my anxiety are thoughts about anxiety.

[LoveforAll41 in reply to Cam_Cam_Cam]

Right, I need a Mary Poppins. Have you read David Burns book "Feeling Great"? He also has a podcast called Feeling Good I think. He does a lot of the magic Mary Poppins stuff. That part where I feel heard in therapy or reading a book that resonates as true is what I hold on to. In therapy my therapist really wants me to be able to accept the feelings and "support myself" through them. I am not really sure what this means other than I would go exercise or eat sugar not with the intent of driving the feeling away but rather acknowledging it and seeing it and feeling it and trying to understand what it wants me to know and yada yada. I think this is the crux of the acceptance therapy, but it is a heck of a thing to get over/understand. I really love therapy and truly believe that most of our problems are from thinking errors. Perhaps you could go once a week or try to find on that does the TEAM therapy that David talks about in his book? Sorry, I am silly to try to give advice given the pickle I am in, but I can commiserate.

[LoveforAll41 in reply to Cam_Cam_Cam]

I guess for this cure with acceptance we don't really need to understand why we feel anxious. I have always been against delving into my childhood cuz I just wanted help now, with my problems now. I went to an inpatient place though and I had to be there for trauma if I wanted to be able to stay so I got into it some. I still don't think it is necessary for everyone, but it did help me understand and accept why some things are so hard for me.

Also, the human part is so important and interesting. I just talk with my colleagues at work about anything and feel better...

[Dolphin14]

Hi

Welcome to this very supportive community.

I can assure you that you are not alone. Many of us struggle with these same issues.

You have certainly done quite a bit of work towards healing. Sounds like you are a fighter.

I'm confused where you say you've only started your journey a month ago? Can you explain?

I was also wondering what your past user name was?

🐬

[Cam_Cam_Cam in reply to Dolphin14]

Sorry, that should say a year ago, not a month ago (and really, it's been more like a year and half).

I've never had a user account here before. I would occasionally stop in and read some of the posts as a lurker.

[Dolphin14 in reply to Cam_Cam_Cam]

I was just curious if we might know you

That makes more sense for a years time.

My best advice is to just keep fighting. One if the things I kept telling myself , " it's going to take as long as it takes" It took it's time for sure

Do you think the med combination is helping you?

[Cam_Cam_Cam in reply to Dolphin14]

Interestingly, I really thought it was until about four days ago when, out of the blue, I had another anxiety breakdown. Luckily, these breakdowns seem to be much shorter lasting than they have been in the past.

What I really struggle with is, was it really the medication helping, or was it the hope that the new psychiatrist gave me that we would get this all figured out?

I'm still trying to analyze what the trigger could have been. I have it down to two possible options. One is an argument with my significant other on Thanksgiving and the other is an extended time away from work where I am off my normal schedule. What I struggle with is that I don't feel a particularly emotional connection to either of those things. I don't really get any signs from my brain that say "yes, that's a trigger!!"

[Dolphin14 in reply to Cam_Cam_Cam]

EMDR and IFS are pretty intense therapies. You weren't able to identify any triggers during these sessions?

[Cam_Cam_Cam in reply to Dolphin14]

I did both virtually during COVID times. IMO they don't work virtually, especially not EMDR. Trying to follow a ball on a screen when the screen keeps lagging because of internet connection issues is NOT ideal.

With IFS, I was able to identify some of the ways my inner child comes out in my adult personality (great for self reflection and improving yourself), but I was never able to get to what my inner child was actually anxious about.

[Dolphin14 in reply to Cam_Cam_Cam]

Idk if I could have successfully done EMDR that way. But with the intake alone I saw that I had some pretty deep issues and I was quite surprised

I've done IFS for years. It's tough therapy. Opening up and being vulnerable is not easy. Im sorry it didn't work for you.

Based on my own journey I bet there is something hidden there. I had to travel inward, find it and travel back out

Don't give up, continue to search

Wishing you the best

[Hidden]

Good morning,

I think you have gotten a lot of good, astute feedback from other members of the forum, but I would also like to put in my two cents.

The idea of accepting one’s anxiety or depression sounds good, but it’s very difficult to implement. Like you, I have tried a number of different types of therapy with modest success. I think that most of the medications that are available are not usually that effective in the long run; we are dealing with 60 year-old treatments that need to be updated. I look forward to trying ketamine or possibly psilocybin or TMS. However, these are on the horizon and it may be a while before they become available where I live.

I do think that cognitive behavioral therapy can be quite effective if done properly. You really do have to do the homework to get the benefit of the therapy. A lot of research has been done on CBT and it generally appears to be effective.

I wish you good luck in your quest and if you find anything that really works, please let us know.

[bethelbee in reply to Hidden]

I have done TMS with great success, for the depression. My last round ended I have had issues with anxiety forever but not continuously and not while going through TMS. My last round ended close to two years ago and though I have had recent downs due to health issues it kept me from really spiraling down. I have heard it sometimes makes anxiety worse, but don't know from experience. I am presently going through a rough time with my anxiety.

[Agora1]

Hi Cam_Cam_Cam....I too am on Lexapro after years of being on low dose benzos.

I've read about all the treatments and meds and doctors you have tried since getting

off your Lexapro. However, there is one thing I didn't see and that is finding methods

and tools that may work along with your medication and therapy.

Talking therapy is important in order to address the issues you are experiencing. However,

if it is due mostly in coming off your medication, then you need to have a method to turn to

to incorporate with your treatment.

After getting off 30 years of low dose xanax, even though done slowly and safely, there

needed to be something I could turn to other than popping a pill each time anxiety hit

me with intense symptoms. Morning Anxiety is very common for the anxious person due

to a hormonal rise with Cortisol and Adrenaline. Oh yes, a pill could calm it down but so

could doing Breathing exercises and Meditation (which is what I've turned to)

Calming down the body also calms down the mind which in turn, with practice, can stop

the symptoms faster than a pill could.

I have an appointment to go to but if interested in pursuing this thought more, I will get

back to you. Cam, you are certainly in the right place to get help. All of us have been

on the same road, some of us took a different path and found relief. Keep posting and

responding, you will find answers that may help you. We CARE. xx

[Cam_Cam_Cam in reply to Agora1]

Hi Agora! Thanks for taking the time on such a thorough reply.

I have tried different breathing exercises here and there, although nothing immediately in the morning when I wake up. When the morning anxiety hits, it is so overwhelming that it's hard to even think. The weird thing for me is, it usually starts (I think) before I actually wake up. Often times it feels like I'm in a weird in-between state where I'm asleep, but my brain is already freaking out. Recently, that freaking out has manifested in some weird dreams.

On a lot of these days, I will do some 5/5/5 box breathing on the way to work for about 20 minutes. Problem is, I've never felt true relief from breathing exercises. My heart rate will be normal, my breathing will be normal, but my mid section is screaming nerves at me and I can tell that my brains gear shifter is stuck in fight/flight and broken off.

I avoid the benzos as much as I can, especially during the day. The dose required to calm my anxiety (usually 1mg of Ativan) makes me essentially useless.

I should mention, much of my anxiety about anxiety is around sleep. If I get a poor nights sleep, I spend all day worrying that it's going to snowball into another poor nights sleep. I currently lack the ability to look at a poor nights sleep in a vacuum and just let it be what it is.

[Agora1 in reply to Cam_Cam_Cam]

Hi Cam, I'm back...Everything you wrote, I was nodding my head because I remember

those days and went through exactly the same thing. Most of us have the same story

to tell. The thing about Anxiety is in trying to catch it before our mind thinks it into

a catastrophic event. Breathing properly isn't that easy to do when under the throws

of adrenaline. It takes practice as everything else in life does. Even Meditation is not

a one time success. Listening to Affirmations, Imagery, Self-Hypnosis and Relaxation

techniques takes time for our brain to be retrained. After all this didn't happen over

night and has become a habit of ours to feed into our anxiety and symptoms.

It usually takes about 30 days to just have the brain start to accept what it's hearing.

I've been doing it for years both the breathing & meditation.

When I first get into bed at night, I listen to the meditation and do my deep breathing

as my body sinks into a comfortable position. I no longer need but a few minutes

to fall into a sound deep REM sleep. (the regenerative kind)

Come morning, as you said the feelings start to appear before waking up. Can even

start with a dream.. As you open your eyes, it helps to start the morning on the right

foot by listening to meditation and doing your breathing. The breathing if done

properly as well as with practice will get rid of that horrible feeling in the upper

stomach, known as the solar plexus. That is where are the so called wiring of our

nervous system gathers. If you calm that part of your body with breathing, your

mind will follow right along. You can even and with time, get to the point where

you will be able to eliminate that sensation within moments.

Don't give up... As we learn from each other on this site, try some of the things

others do and take what works and eliminate the rest. Eventually you will find

what works for you as you get results.

It will all fall into place when the time is right and when you are ready. xx

[Cam_Cam_Cam in reply to Agora1]

Hi Agora, another wonderful reply. I will try some of the above suggestions, but the most powerful part of your message is reminding me that it takes time for these practices to sink in.

My biggest "mistake" is when my brain starts to turn it around for a week or two, I stop practicing anything that might help with future outbreaks. To be fair to myself, I stop doing these things because I just need a break from anxiety in its entirety sometimes.

Managed to fall asleep last night without any chemical help, but woke up at about 3:50 AM and was unable to fall back asleep. The sleepier days definitely make this all harder.

[Agora1 in reply to Cam_Cam_Cam]

Cam, I understand in that you don't want to constantly be thinking about anxiety

however meditation and breathing are methods that eventually you will get use

to doing. It's like having a savings bank account, the more you put into it, the

more return you will get.

The tools we use daily are not only to calm the mind and body at the time but

also to have in reserve when we really need it.

Waking up between 3-4 am is usual with the anxious person because that is

when the hormones, Cortisol & Adrenaline rise for the day.

The average person sleeps right though but the over sensitized person may

wake up due to the rise in these chemicals.

If that would happen to me, I would just go back to meditating and breathing to

lull myself back to sleep. Practice takes time xx