Hi all, I've never been diagnosed with a thyroid condition but I posted on this forum early last year as I believed I did have a sluggish thyroid, I had all the symptoms. Anyway, it turned out that I had iron and folic acid deficiency anaemia, with very low ferritin and low (but 'normal') B12. I also got diagnosed with very mild chronic kidney disease which doesn't really cause me any symptoms. Unsurprisingly doctors ruled out my thyroid as an issue but the cause of the anaemia and low ferritin/b12 is unknown (I've had blood tests and gastroscopy and endoscopy all fine). So in the last year, after the initial ferrous sulphate and folic acid prescriptions, I've been daily taking a sachet of spatone liquid iron and 1 tablet of 1000ug vitamin b12 methylcobalamin. About once every 2 weeks I also take a tablet of 5mg folic acid. I've found that without these my levels drop, despite a good diet. I am gluten, dairy, soya and alcohol intolerant so have a pretty natural diet. I'm 52 and active (I walk a lot and swim frequently). Oh, I also use a natural progesterone and oestrogen cream as I self diagnosed a problem with very low hormones and that does help.
Anyway, I feel loads better than I did last year! Most of my symptoms have gone except the afternoon slump of tiredness, loss of outer third of eyebrows and lack of stamina. I've always had loads of get up and go but, although I'm active, everything seems an effort. I gave up work 3 years ago and I think this is the only reason I can cope, I'm able to stop and rest when I need to. I think if I had to work I might struggle.
So I'm still wondering if my thyroid is playing a part in this and have found a product called metavive 15mg porcine thyroid. It's classed as a food additive. I've noticed on this forum that people do take it, but they take it with a diagnosed thyroid condition. I'm wondering if it would be safe for me to take the lowest dose. Could I do myself any harm or would it be an idea to see if it helps? Has anyone any idea?
My last thyroid blood tests in sept 2017 were:
TSH 2.53 miu/l range 0.27-4.2
Free T4 14.7 pmol/l range 12-22
Total T4 74.2 pmol/l range 59-154
Free T3 4.01 pmol/l range 3.10-6.8
No sign of thyroid antibodies so not hashimotos.
This was taken at 7.30am fasting.
Thanks in advance for your expert knowledge!
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Julesboz
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Hi jules, Anyone with a TSH over 2 has a thyroid deficiency. Even without antibodies registering, it may still be an autoimmune condition. I have posted many excerpts from various summits which may explain. All your thyroid results are too low in the range since you do have symptoms.
Often the reason you have other deficiencies is due to lack of stomach acid and enzymes. You can enhance both with your meals by adding HCL and systemic enzymes and if your diet is that good you should be able to raise those levels.
I saw this thread on Metavive that might help you with a plan. I would definitely try taking Betaine HCL with protein meals. A lot of this is about nutrition.
Can I just ask, you say anyone with a TSH over 2 has a thyroid deficiency. What about people who feel perfectly normal, and don't complain of feeling hypo and have just had a tsh test by chance for whatever reason, no hypothyroidism symptoms but they have a TSH of 2 or more but not out of range. Would you say they are hypo and will eventually feel hypo.
It's difficult to know for sure because some of the subtle changes won't be that noticeable. If it takes a decade before a diagnosis is actually made you can see that there really isn't a test sensitive enough to tell you your metabolic rate which is what it is all about. Of course you can take your temperature but it's not totally definitive. The inflammation tests like sedimentation rate might help to know. Have you had that?
Every cell NEEDS thyroid hormone. I think the mitochondria (very, very tiny) might be one of those that are harmed. There are more sensitive tests for the microbiome which lets you know if something is wrong there and this causes inflammation so that can affect your thyroid gland itself. If you have antibodies that show up, I think that is the best thing you could do at the start and let's you know your thyroid is being attacked even though it continues to produce hormone very well. That may increase in time and let you know you have a problem.
Time will tell. I think I would work on the side issues before taking thyroid hormone although body builders use T3 all the time. I just have learned from these new technologies that the body is giving signals that something is wrong and it starts with the microbiome. This body system does a lot of "thinking and signalling" but it's far beyond the radar of conventional medicine. In functional medicine they can find what is upsetting your microbiome. In the meantime you can try some detoxing and some diet changes perhaps probiotics but it is hit or miss in a way. If you think gluten or dairy do not make you feel well, avoid them.
What it is, it's my son he's 23 very fit but he's had TSH readings from 2 to 4.9 just barely in top end of ref range, in UK we are. He's had episodes of low mood lethargy, Galactorrhea / gynaecomastia and his prolactin is persistently over range at 650 ish
should be no more than 300. No antibodies. His pituitary gland was scanned because they thought he might of had a microadenoma but he didn't have one. I have my suspicions of hypothyroidism but the consultant and doctors say no.Meanwhile he seems ok but he certainly likes to sleep alot. And the consultant wouldn't give him anything for the Galactorrhea and didn't believe him. So he actually got tamoxifen himself and took it to treat it himself. It worked. But it's all had me worried. I'll get some private bloods done.
Is everything in this thread about your son? If it is I almost applaud that he began his own treatment although I'm not sure tamoxifen is the way to go. Has he been on any other pharmaceutical before this all started? He DOES have an hormonal imbalance. I'd believe that has more to do with it than just his thyroid. Is that why you wanted the Metativive? I wonder if John Bergman has something on this...he's so smart about hormones. Dopamine has been mentioned as part of the problem and that is a neurotransmitter. Let me look up a few things and I'll get back to you if I find out anything. You know dopamine is involved in Parkinson's and Bi-polar. It's not that you don't make enough, it's more that it isn't working correctly.
I don't know if estrogens in our food are causing these hormonal imbalances but there are chemicals out there creating havoc with our children's hormones. You could do some investigating about those.
What other tests are you thinking of? Some of the great doctors on the summits have developed their own tests that are more specific than the labs conventional doctors use.
Hi, I am not the one enquiring about metative. I just saw that you mentioned about a TSH over 2 is a thyroid hormone deficiency and it made me think again about my son.
He's very smart my son, he's just finished a master's in bio medical sciences and has a master's in bio industrial mechanics. And now just working in a major pharmaceutical company at just 23 and doing PhD. So even though I didn't like the idea of him taking tamoxifen he knew what he was doing to block the estrogen in his breast tissue causing the Galactorrhea. (The lady consultant actually told him to film his breasts leaking because she didn't believe him.) Your right it is a hormonal imbalance and there is still a root cause. It's got various other hormones out of balance estrogen testosterone progesterone thyroid and dopamine and more I expect. But I don't know which one is the culprit or what is the culprit. I'm annoyed that a consultant wouldn't dig deeper to resolve the problem in such a young fit man. She underestimated my son's knowledge and determination to resolve his problems that he came to her initially for in the first place asking for help that was dragged out over two year's and was brushed off unresolved. Our NHS.
Thanks again
He's never done any drugs or taken any drs prescription drugs. He just had to resort to the tamoxifen for the Galactorrhea/ gynaecomastia. It was a short course he self medicated and was successful.
Is NDT stronger than metavive though? I guess I'm just a bit nervous about taking it and taking something that's a 'nutritional supplement' seems a bit less scary that a prescribable drug (although I know NDT isn't a drug, it's hormones). I really want to start with something very mild if I do go that way.
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