I am new here and am seeking some guidance on improving my Thyroid antibodies.

[cheslee]

I have been reading the very helpful posts on this forum and while they have been helpful I am somewhat confused as to what would be right for me and the correct way to go about tackling these antibodies.

My research has led me to believe I should cut out Gluten; then Dairy, Soy etc. (Paleo approach). I should also take supplements like Selenium; Magnesium etc.

I have found Dr Izabella Wentz's The Thyroid Secret very informative. However it is written for the American market.

I would like to work out a specific step by step process so I can monitor progress or not, as all the suggestions made are overwhelming.

I am currently on 125 mg Levothyroxine having been diagnosed two years ago with an under active Thyroid. The doses have been increasing every three months after blood tests. I have a very helpful and sympathetic GP but would question her knowledge of this disease, as I am not sure whether she tested my antibodies two years ago. My endo did not even go down the Thyroid route!

Following advice from this forum I used Medichecks for 11 Thyroid tests checks and they have shown that I have high numbers of Thyroid Antibodies. It is more than likely to be Hashimoto's. While I know there is no cure I have read there are ways of reducing these antibody numbers through Supplements and diet.

Diagnosis by Medichecks as follows;-

TSH 3.46 Range ( 0.27-4.2) mIU/L - advised Normal

FT4 23.5 Range (12-22) mIU/L - High

T4 140.9 Range (59 -154)nmol/L - Normal

FT3 3.86 Range (3.86) pmoL/L -normal

TGAB antibodies 4000.000 Range (0 - 115) IU/L - High

TPOAB antibodies 308.7 Range ( 0-34) IU/L - High

25 OH Vitamin D 14.3 Range (50-200) nmo/L - Low

Folate serum 13.28 Range (3.89 - 26.8)ug/L - Normal

Vitamin B12 239 Range (140 -724)pmol/L- Normal

Ferritin 55.94 Range (13-150)ugL - Normal

CRP 8.6 Range (0-5) mg/L - High

I have been advised by Medichecks to supplement my very low Vitamin D levels, with Fultium -D 3 3,200 IU which I think I have get through a prescription as I cannot find it on the net.

After 3 months I need to get it checked, then reduce to a maintenance dose of 400 IU and also then have my Levothyroxine increased by my GP.

I have read I should take Selenium as I believe it improves the immune system and can decrease the number of antibodies.

Magnesium and zinc also seems to be advised, along with Co Q10 and Omega 3's.

I had been prescribed 25 mg of Omeprazole for many years, a PPI which I have stopped as I believe it stops absorption of nutrients.

So I am walking into a minefield; What do I do first and what dosages should I take.

I am in my later years and am starting out on a new road and will hopefully take my GP with me as well.

Suggestions most welcome and thanks

[Clutter]

Welcome to the forum, Cheslee.

Perceived wisdom is that no-one should eat or drink unfermented soy which is very thryoid unfriendly.

It might be helpful to try a gluten-free diet for a few months to see whether symptoms improve but it can take years of being g-f for antibodies to improve and a g-f diet won't work for everyone. It may be necessary for some people to cut out dairy and sugar to feel well but I don't think it necessary for everyone. Whatever dietry and lifestyle changes you make won't usually reverse Hashimoto's and certainly won't repair damage the thyroid gland has already suffered.

chriskresser.com/the-gluten...

thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/about_...

Your thyroid results are a bit unusual as TSH 3.46 when taking Levothyroxine usually indicates under medication but FT4 23.5 indicates over medication although your FT3 3.86 is low in range. FT4 23.5 is mildly over range so it isn't necessary to reduce dose and isn't desirable to do so because it will reduce FT3. Read Treatment Options in thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/about_... Email [e-mail] if you would like a copy of the Pulse article. You could show your endo the graph below and see what s/he says thyroidmanager.org/algorith...

Vitamin D is deficient. My GP prescribed 40,000iu ProD3 x 14 days followed by 2,000iu daily x 8 weeks which raised vitD from <10 to 107. ProD3 is very expensive. If your GP won't prescribe buy other D3 softgel capsules from somewhere like Amazon. If you use Amazon please use the TUK affiliate link

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Ferritin is optimal halfway through range so you might supplement iron with 1,000mcg vitamin C to aid absorption and minimise constipation. Retest 4-6 months later.

VitD and iron should be taken 4 hours away from Levothyroxine.

I see no problem with the vitamins and minerals you intend supplementing, particularly as you probably have nutritional deficiencies due to taking PPis. Introduce one vitamin or mineral at a time at two week intervals otherwise it is hard to identify which is causing any adverse reaction you might experience. Take them 2 hours away from Levothyroxine.

Folate is good but B12 is low. Pop over to healthunlocked.com/pasoc for advice on B12 levels.

[cheslee in reply to Clutter]

Thank you Clutter for taking the time to walk me through all of this. It has been most helpful.

I have noticed on the algorithms chart link you sent that Propanolol could affect the FT3 result. I never made this link and failed to mention it on my Medicheck medical history, never realizing it could be relevant.

My endo suggested I took Propanolol daily to suppress anxiety, nausea, palpitations etc - It appeared my body made too much adrenaline found after the 24 hour urine test. I am currently on 160 mg daily. However since researching the Thyroid and symptoms it could well be that at that time it was my Thyroid which was causing the problem. But he never even went down that route. I am assuming if I get all my minerals and vitamins up then I can get rid of this drug.

Thanks

[Clutter in reply to cheslee]

Cheslee,

Propranolol can reduce conversion of T4 to T3 but wouldn't account for high TSH with high FT4.

I don't think optimising vitamins and minerals will necessarily enable you to stop taking Propranolol and would advise you to consult your doctor if you are thinking of weaning off or reducing your dose.

[cheslee in reply to Clutter]

Thanks Clutter for the advice, I will be seeing my GP next week. What she will say when I present all of this to her will be interesting.

Cheers

[Clutter in reply to cheslee]

Cheslee,

Don't expect too much. GPs aren't thyroid specialists.

[SeasideSusie Remembering]

cheslee For your antibodies, definitely selenium L-selenomethionine 200mcg daily, this helps reduce the antibodies and helps with conversion of T4 to T3. Also many people have found a strict gluten free diet helps enormously. Some people also need to cut out dairy, but not all. And soy, unless it is fermented soy, should be avoided by all of us Hypos not just Hashi's patients. Also, keeping TSH suppressed helps reduce antibodies.

**

Vit D at 14.3 probably comes under the severely deficient category. You could ask your GP to prescribe but to be honest you'd do better getting your own. My level was 15 and I got it up to 192 in 2.5 months, however I took a very large loading dose for two weeks which doesn't suit everyone. I would suggest that you buy some D3 softgels like these bodykind.com/product/2463-b... . I took 40,000iu daily for two weeks then reduced to 5000iu daily. If you don't fancy going that high then take 10,000iu daily for 6-8 weeks then reduce to 5000iu daily. Retest in 3-4 months. The recommended level is 100-150nmol/L so when you reach that level reduce to 5000iu alternate days and re-test once or twice a year to ensure you stay within the recommended range.

When taking D3 there are important co-factors needed vitamindcouncil.org/about-v...

D3 aids absorption of calcium from food and K2-MK7 directs it to bones and teeth rather than arteries and soft tissues. This is a good K2-MK7 amazon.co.uk/Jarrow-MK-7-90...

D3 and K2 are fat soluble so should be taken with the fattiest meal of the day, D3 four hours away from thyroid meds.

Magnesium comes in different forms so check to see which would suit you best and as it's calming it's best taken in the evening, four hours away from thyroid meds naturalnews.com/046401_magn...

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B12 at 239 is far too low. Anything under 500 can cause neurological problems. The recommended level is very top of it's range, even 900-1000. You could buy some Solgar sublingual methylcobalamin lozenges 5000mcg and dissolve one under the tongue daily. When the bottle is finished buy some 1000mcg strength and take one daily as a maintenance dose.

B12 and Folate work together. Folate should be at least half way through it's range, yours falls a bit short. When taking B12 we need a B Complex to balance all the B vits. Thorne Basic B is a good one and contains 400mcg methylfolate which will help raise your folate level.

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Ferritin needs to be at least 70 for thyroid hormone to work properly, best for females is 100-130. You can supplement with iron tablets, taking each tablet with 1000mg Vit C to aid absorption and help prevent constipation and taking it four hours away from thyroid meds. The easiest way to raise ferritin is to eat liver once a week.

**

CoQ10 is a good supplement to take. I take the Ubiquinol form as it's already converted, one less job for our body to do. I also take Krill Oil.

**

TSH 3.46 Range ( 0.27-4.2) mIU/L - advised Normal - this is too high for a treated hypo patient. Most of us feel best when it is 1 or below.

FT4 23.5 Range (12-22) mIU/L - High

T4 140.9 Range (59 -154)nmol/L - Normal

FT3 3.86 Range (3.86) pmoL/L -normal

Your FT4 and FT3 show that your conversion is poor. Actually the range for FT3 will be 3.1-6.8 and you are very low in range. Good conversion takes place when FT4: FT3 ratio is 4:1 or below, yours is 6.08 : 1 . You need a reduction in Levo and the addition of some T3. Your GP probably won't understand this, and if you were referred to an endocrinologist he may or may not know about it. Many of us deal with this ourselves, we take our Levo prescription and self source T3.

**

As for which order to start, personally I would start eating liver as soon as you can get to the shops, get that ferritin up to help your thyroid hormone to work.

Next I would start supplementing with D3 then a week or so later add in the K2-MK7, then the magnesium.

Another week or so later start the B12, and a week or so after that start the B Complex.

Next the selenium, then the Q10.

Always leave a week or so between adding the next supplement, that way if there is an adverse reaction you will know what caused it.

**

I am not medically trained, my suggestions are based on my own experience, research and reading.

[cheslee in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thank you Seaside Susie. Gosh my poor old body will be bombarded by all these goodies! Cheers

[Sedgie in reply to SeasideSusie]

This post helps me too thanks

[wellness1]

Hi cheslee, you said you found The Thyroid Secret very informative and "would like to work out a specific step by step process so I can monitor progress..." (me too!) Did you know Izabella Wentz has a new book coming out?

Hashimoto's Protocol: A 90-Day Plan for Reversing Thyroid Symptoms and Getting Your Life Back

I gather it will outline specific steps and a chronology for managing the process. It's released in the UK on 4 May.

amazon.co.uk/Hashimotos-Pro...

Could be helpful!

[cheslee in reply to wellness1]

Many thanks Wellness - will have a look.

[Ruthi]

Plenty of good advice there.

Step by step is a nice idea, but to be honest, thryoid changes are so slow that its not really a terribly helpful concept. You really won't be able to wait long enough after each change to be able to tell what is making a difference. So my advice is to throw everything at it and then when you feel better (I am sure you will) take some of your supplements out gradually.

Look at the AIP Autoimmune Paleo diet, or the ketogenic diet. Both cut out all the main causes of problems and are full of nutrient rich foods.

Each of us has to find their own solution, and its only marginally helpful to follow everyone else.One of the most difficult things is the cycle we go through thinking we have FINALLY found THE solution, only for it to turn our not to be that hot after all. In my case this has been going on for 30 odd years. But I think I have finally cracked it with the keto diet!

No matter what else you do, you absolutely must cut out gluten (and ideally all grains) and get your Vitamin D, B12 up. CRP (which is a measure of inflammation) should go down with either of the diets I mentioned, and will probably just go down when you cut out gluten.

Nutrient deficiencies can cause poor conversion. But it could also be due to a genetic mutation on your DI02 gene. We all have mutations of course, and mostly we live fine with them! But if this is the case for you then the only solution will be to supplement T3 directly. But you will never get the test on the NHS, and its not cheap!

[cheslee in reply to Ruthi]

Thank you Ruthie, I agree that I need to find what is best for me but the advice which has been given has been most helpful. What I cannot understand is the Medichecks Doctor thought my B12 and Ferritin were OK.

Many Thanks

[Ruthi in reply to cheslee]

Well, they are in range. But that just shows how many people are operating on suboptimal nutrients nowadays.

Range just means that an arbitrary proportion of the population falls into that group. It doesn't mean they are well, although theoretically they are symptom free. But since we are told that so much is just due to our age, or our gender......

[cheslee in reply to Ruthi]

Thanks Ruthie for your reply it was most helpful

[Marz in reply to cheslee]

I think Medichecks have to keep within the Guidelines in order not to bring too much attention to themselves ....

[cheslee in reply to Marz]

Thanks Marz - yes makes sense.

[Marz in reply to cheslee]

As do other Private Testing Labs of course. It's only fora like this one that encourage you to look outside the box to find wellness 😊

[Tiredmum75]

Hi have you read Izabella Wentz book it's called Hashimoto's thyroiditis lifestyle interventions for finding and treating the root cause

[cheslee in reply to Tiredmum75]

Hi Tiredmum. While I have not read her book, I followed all 9 episodes of The Secret Thyroid- it was so fascinating and highlighted how important the Thyroid Gland was and the relation a leaky gut could have. Cheers

[cheslee in reply to Tiredmum75]

Thanks Tiredmum I am on to this

[Tiredmum75 in reply to cheslee]

Awesome