Sorry to post im just struggling and dont know where to turn. I'm 3 weeks into an increase of thyroxine. My tsh came down to 2.6 and ft4 around 18.9. Ft3 5, in November. I was told to stay at the 50mg dose for 3 months. I tested a few weeks earlier than 3 months as I felt unwell again. Tsh had jumped up to 5.7, ft4 17.4 and ft3 5.0, Gp increased levo dose to 75mg. I've been taking it every morning for 3 weeks. I thought I felt a little better last week as my fatigue lifted slightly, I felt less anxious and less weak but the last few days I've had bad fatigue again, leg weakness and feeling off balance. I haven't crashed for 2 months but I crashed so bad yesterday with fatigue and weakness I had to spend the day in bed. I cried all day worried why I felt so bad. It made my anxiety race. All I'd done the day before was take my kids to the park and 1 shop. Can thyroid cayse these crashes and daily fatigue, weak thighs, anxiety, depression, woozy foggy head and sometimes feel I'm walking on a boat. These have been my symptoms for over a year now.
I've been on thyroxine since may last year and I went on it after a battle with the gp when my tsh went from 6.8 to 9.28 fast last January to May in a range of 0.2-4.2. I was having huge energy crashes if I did housework, took the kids to a park or a shop, socially seeing people would land me in bed for days. I still have fatigue every single day and have to pace but crashes aren't as often. Then yesterday I had a bad crash, my anxiety was very high with it. I've been anxious since, upset stomach, heart rate up a bit.... too much info but I'm on my period the last 2 days and for the first time in 5 months it's a proper flow. I'm on the pill loestrin 20 for heavy periods, I've been on it 4 years and my gp doesn't think it's a good idea to come off it yet until I'm stronger with the fatigue and my ferritin goes up.
I've spoken to my gp today. He isn't too concerned about the saliva cortisol test i did in January, he said it's only slightly elevated but said repeat in 2 months and we will go from there. I was concerned about the evening result at 10pm as that was 7 and range onlying entry up to 3.8. He thinks it's due to constant stress I'm under with the anxiety. He suggested a referral to endo to get cushings ruled out if I wanted it for peace of mind, I said no lol. Right now I'm so agoraphobic and anxious I couldn't do it
I told him I crashed yesterday, he wanted to come and see me to check me over but I refused because he just comes with a needle running more and more tests and it's what's caused me so much anxiety this last year. I've been honest and told him. My therapist has even said hea a huge cause of my anxiety because on my fatigued weak days I shouldn't be so anxious. She said you should be able to say I know it's my thyroid and chronic fatigue it's caused but she said you can't because he keeps wanting to run more tests to find another cause. I'm hoping the crash has been due to hormones and a heavy period. Am I wrong refusing a gp visit? He saw me early November, ran a huge list of bloods, as long as my arm and all ok (fbc, ferritin (needs increasing from 34 but it's always been low, folate, b12, hba1c; glucose, kidney and liver function, glandular fever, nuclear antibodies, blood films, creatine kinase... all ok other than ferritin still needs to increase. My sodium was low at 129 but repeated and it was 138. Potassium was 3.4 and range is 3.5-4.6. It's always been 3.5 so he wasn't concerned but would want to repeat it at some point soon. Random glucose was 8.9 but hba1c was good at 35 but he wants another hba1c soon to double check. Yet he still wants to do them all over again. He keeps saying he's concerned about my level of fatigue and keeps chasing me with a needle which causes anxiety so now I've become anxious even about him coming to see me. He does home visits for me this last year. Am I letting my anxiety stop me getting medical help? He seemed concerned I crashed yesterday but I'm praying it was a one off. My hubby says I've seen him 4 times in the last year and he's run an MOT of bloods twice. I've not neglected myself. I fought to have my thyroid treated when gp were saying I was fine as I didn't have antibodies. Still feeling so fatigued and weak daily, and sometimes quite ill I'm worried was it my thyroid all along and was I right to fight for thyroxine. First thyroid results was August 2015 when tsh was 5.35 in and range of 0.35-5.5 and ft4 10.2 (7-17l then in the January last year 6.8 (0.2-4.2), ft4 14 (12-22) then by may 9.28 and ft4 had gone up to about 15. Ft3 always around 5.3. I finally got thyroxine.
How soon should I re test thyroid? Gp said 3 months initially and I said no idea at her wait 8 weeks and re test. My concern is I could go over active as my ft4 in a range of 12-22 is 17.4. I know there's plenty of room but with just how anxious and unwell I've felt the last few days I'm not sure if I should test before the 8 weeks or will that be too soon for an increase?
I am just at the stage where my life is getting me down and I'very been diagnosed with depression. I'm a mum to 3 children, I cry daily I'm letting them down. I've had a tough 4 years since my attack and family cut me off, I've then become ill this last 16 months and been coping with it alone, other than hubby who is fab but he works full time. My anxiety and agoraphobia hit worse than 4 years ago after my brother attacked me. Id just got my life back after the PTSD it caused and was living again. I have to rely on hubby to take the kids to appointments or anything social. I do the school run, cook, tidy the house, i walk my dog recently again which is great.... I can't go to shops unless with hubby and then it's just small ones. My anxiety has become so high this last year I just stay at home because I'm too weak and fatigued to do anything. I crash if I do too much. I managed a few big days out last year and a caravan holiday in the summer an hour away. I plan to do that again this summer all being well but my anxiety is so severe the last 2 months since my gp keeps wanting to run more tests and having agoraphobia again it's limited my life and I'm terrified of more tests incase I end up in hospital. He keeps saying this MOT is definitive then wants to repeat it 3 months later. I'm exhausted with it all and he's made me even doubt I ever had a thyroid problem and I'm worried now if a year on this fatigue and weakness isn't thyroid then is it too late, whatever it is. I cried most of the weekend to myself worried incase I'm dying and awful images in my mind of leaving my children and not seeing the year out. Last year I kept telling him I was fatigued and crashing and he just blamed moodn anxiety etc... now suddenly a year on his poking and prodding all the time and making me an anxious wreck.
Sorry to offload. I feel so alone with it all at times. My therapist says my gp has caused all my anxiety as he's never firmly said this is your thyroid or this is depression or whatever. He wasbt concerned about the fatigue last year but now suddenly he's being very over cautious and makes me very anxious. I've done the tests he wants, now he wants to do them all again anxious and ever me to a general medical doctor at the hospital for him to run all the same tests and then he said if they're clear you'll be diagnosed with cfs if thyroid in range and you still feel so fatigued and weak. My heads all over the place.
You've only been 3 weeks on higher dose. Testing should take place 6-8 weeks after increase.
If your Doc is not helping you, can you change? It appears you keep telling him about symptoms and he is genuinely baffled, but nevertheless is trying his best to get to the bottom of it. Then you worry more about tests and needles. Either contact him and accept his help, or plod on to next blood test and maybe get another levo increase. Unfortunately, it takes time to sort levels.
Could you ask for a referral to a psychiatrist to help with your anxiety? I know there's a sort of stigma, but in my experience they are brill!
He's the best gp out of thr bunch. Others said I wasn't even hypo so he's the only gp that listened and helped. He's just very over cautious suddenly and worrying me.
I'm seeing a therapist for the anxiety. I asked for a psychiatrist 4 years ago but was told I couldn't have a referal as I didn't have a serious mental health problem. I've gone private with a therapist on and off the last 4 years as the NHS waiting time for CBT was 18 months here.
Oh dear. Well as you have highis ft3 it might make you more sensitive to adrenaline. As you have high cortisol it causes a vicious cycle. Unfortunately there is not much to do have you tried holy basil? Or any other supplements that could help bringing down cortisol?
I am taking levo which I hope won't be making things any worse.
My ft3 has always been around 5, the range is 3.1-6.8.
I can't take herbs as I'm on an anti depressant. I'm only anxious due to all the testing and worries that hit me when I'm fatigued or crashed. They are the days my anxiety soars as I get scared why.
I know you are on T4 but as you convert well and have good amount of t3 in your system it can make you sensitive to adrenaline.
For someone with normal cortisol output it wouldn't be any issue and would tolerate t4 better.
But for you all high causes a vicious cycle which can lead to crashing.
Increasing thyroid increases cortisol as well.
Do you ever wake up around 4 or 5 am ? I mean to over come possible reaction to t3 some take it around 4 or 5 as cortisol peaks up after that. I have read it's possible to do with levo too even though it is has longer halftime compared to t3.
It's hard when you have high cortisol even though ideally it should eventually start decrease when thyroid gets better.
I usually sleep like a baby. I've been waking often the last week or so which is unlike me. From around 3am I wake and doze, wake and doze. Strange. I've had things on my mind though.
I'm hoping once tsh comes down I will notice the cortisol lowers. Gp wants me to re test the saliva in 2 months or so once thyroid levels are lower.
Will high cortisol cause crashes? I have daily fatigue and brain fog but every so often I have a major crash which usually comes on if I've been out to the park or shops and stayed out too long (I get anxious going out so this could be something to do with it), if I have visitors like my mum, we aren't close and seeing her causes me intense anxiety, I will then crash severe for a couple of days. Same if I overdo housework but stress seems to be my main cause of a crash. Last time I had one was after my mum visit at new year and she wanted a big heart to heart about how badly she's treated me. I also can't seem to have any negativity or stress as it'll crash me. That all started early last year as my family have hurt me terribly and when I became ill my mum all over again rejected me and it made me feel it re triggered my PTSD, my gp thinks the same.
"Blood sugar falls at night, and the body relies on the glucose stored in the liver as glycogen for energy, and hypothyroid people store very little sugar. As a result, adrenalin and cortisol begin to rise almost as soon as a person goes to bed, and in hypothyroid people, they rise very high, with the adrenalin usually peaking around 1 or 2 A.M., and the cortisol peaking around dawn; the high cortisol raises blood sugar as morning approaches, and allows adrenalin to decline. Some people wake up during the adrenalin peak with a pounding heart, and have trouble getting back to sleep unless they eat something.
If the night-time stress is very high, the adrenalin will still be high until breakfast, increasing both temperature and pulse rate. The cortisol stimulates the breakdown of muscle tissue and its conversion to energy, so it is thermogenic, for some of the same reasons that food is thermogenic.
After eating breakfast, the cortisol (and adrenalin, if it stayed high despite the increased cortisol) will start returning to a more normal, lower level, as the blood sugar is sustained by food, instead of by the stress hormones. In some hypothyroid people, this is a good time to measure the temperature and pulse rate. In a normal person, both temperature and pulse rate rise after breakfast, but in very hypothyroid people either, or both, might fall.
Some hypothyroid people have a very slow pulse, apparently because they aren't compensating with a large production of adrenalin. When they eat, the liver's increased production of T3 is likely to increase both their temperature and their pulse rate.
By watching the temperature and pulse rate at different times of day, especially before and after meals, it's possible to separate some of the effects of stress from the thyroid-dependent, relatively “basal” metabolic rate. When beginning to take a thyroid supplement, it's important to keep a chart of these measurements for at least two weeks, since that's roughly the half-life of thyroxine in the body. When the body has accumulated a steady level of the hormones, and begun to function more fully, the factors such as adrenaline that have been chronically distorted to compensate for hypothyroidism will have begun to normalize, and the early effects of the supplementary thyroid will in many cases seem to disappear, with heart rate and temperature declining. The daily dose of thyroid often has to be increased several times, as the state of stress and the adrenaline and cortisol production decrease."
It's probably adrenaline that causes the crash same way than if you were in a car crash you get adrenaline rush that keeps you alive or just helps with the pain . It protects you but when adrenaline lowers you get shaky and ill feeling.
I assume you get adrenaline rush for example each time you meet your family or anyone that you feel remains you of anything bad that happened in your life. Even your doctor causes it. It's problematic when you have high cortisol and adrenaline as it feels worse.
But ideally it should pass eventually when you have optimised thyroid as high cortisol and adrenaline are compensating the lack of thyroid to keep you going.
When I wake in the night I don't seem to feel anxious but I will keep an eye on that.
That all makes sense. Yes seeing family causes high anxiety inside, I tolerate a visit feeling anxious the whole time, not being able to be myself and be honest about my thyroid illness. My mother doesn't do being ill and she just says 'oh well' or 'oh dear' if I mention my illness which leads to further hurt and rejection from her so her visits last year were difficult for me because I had to tolerate them for my children to see her. As soon as she left I'd go to bed weak and shaky and the following day be bed ridden with fatigue, weakness and anxiety. Yesterday one hit, I didn't feel right on the Saturday but went out anyway to the park and shop which yes will have risen my adrenaline. A few days before, on my sons birthday my mother video called us and she was very cold towards me, my husband sensed it too and said it was cruel. I felt really low afterwards but bottled my pain up. Saturday night I sat crying about my mum to my husband and how bad she makes me feel, then I woke Sunday in a crash so what you have said makes sense.
Oh honestly the stress my mother and siblings have caused me the last 4 years, I am not surprised, nor is my GP, that I now have physical ill health. I was attacked physically by my brother and he was arrested, then bullied the life out of by my sisters. My mother cut me off for not forgiving my brother... she keeps coming back and I've allowed it for the kids sake. Then since I got ill a year ago she abandoned me all over again, refusing to offer any support yet when I see her she tells me she is with my sister daily and stays over at her house when she's had a virus or whatever. All very hurtful.
My step dad last year called me lazy to my face because he said once on thyroxine I was fine and I was just being lazy having to rest so much, my mother allowed him to speak to me like that and it killed me. Awful people. My mother just wants to see the children so I have to pretend I am fine and yes that's why I crash. I haven't seen her since Christmas, I refuse to make myself ill anymore. My husband took the children to see her last week. I could write a book about the nastiness they've thrown at me, my husband refuses to let them see me now, my own dad has cut his other children off out of disgust for their actions so at least I know I haven't imagined it all lol!!
Your stressful situation that continues thanks to your not so nice family makes it hard to recover
But eventually you will get there!
Was wondering have you tried other type of antidepressant as some ad's increase cortisol or serotonin which by the way might cause more issues. As it is still unknown does ad's increase or decrease serotonin and is it high or low serotonin that causes depression.
Would it be an option to consider if that could be the culprit and would it be possible to find another type of ad?
I agree, it's not been easy to recover with them around in the back ground.
My anti depressant lowers cortisol according to my gp. I can't take any other anti depressants. I tried a few and had some awful reactions but mirtazapine was the best bet and it helped. My aim would to be withdraw from it but I've been told withdrawal is hell from it, if I'd have known I maybe would never have started it. I'm on a tiny dose, 15mg . My gp and therapist don't think right now it's the right time to withdraw but yes I feel it's pointless taking it if im anxious again again me it's not helping. It helped and did wonders 3 years ago. I sleep amazing because of it and I had crippling insomnia for 6 months. I also was terribly under weight before the drug and now I've a healthy bmi and happier with how I look. I could never gain weight before as I couldn't eat.. had food issues all my life. I'm overall much calmer believe it or not but this last year the illness and no crashes has been so scary for me. The medication hasnt been able to help this time, as the fear and low mood being chronically ill has taken over. I've found this last year confusing and daunting.
It isn't, all I plan on doing is coming off it completely but feel I am stuck on it right now which is frustrating.
Your random glucose test is high. That would maybe explain your crashes if you have an insulin problem. May be worth you buying a blood glucose monitoring kit and see how your levels are 2 hours after eating. They don't hurt at all and you use a special pen for blood spot testing, they are painless. I use one numerous times a day. It will be all thyroid related and getting your thyroid levels correct first is the way to go but many hypo people are insulin resistant. It's classed as pre diabetic and don't realise. If you see a pattern of a spike after eating carbs then you will know you are insulin resistant or have some other problem processing or making insulin. You get hypo or hyper as a mechanism to cope.
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Thank you Katie
I spoke to my GP about this, my HBA1C is perfect at 35, which he says he is happy with but he wants to monitor it every 3 months to make sure it doesn't rise due to that one random high sugar I had. He said the HBA1C measures glucose over 3 months so my blood sugars can't always be as high as 8.9 on the random (which was taken immediately after eating a Nakd bar full of sugars and during a panic attack lol) or the HBA1C would show a much higher figure either in the pre diabetic or diabetic range, mine is well within the normal range, under 42.
I also don't seem to have any symptoms like a thirst, urinating frequently etc... my GP just wants to keep an eye on it due to that one random sugar and my fatigue which is linked to the hypo. He hasn't mentioned it's pre diabetic. I posted about it on a diabetes forum and they were all saying as my HBA1C was perfect to disregard the random sugar as that can be high randomly for any number of reasons and isn't reliable for diagnosing, and to go by the HBA1C?
Julie
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The levels for gestational diabetes are a lot lower but if I were to get a reading of 8.9 even after sugar that would be classed as high. They don't flag it until you are in the type 2 diabetes range if not pregnant but it does indicate your body may be struggling to get rid of that extra glucose in the system. It may be worth considering just keeping an eye on that. It's not just sugar it's carbs and even sauces loads of stuff it's the bit that says 'carbohydrates of which is sugars you need to keep an eye on with processed foods. Anything over 6 may make your body react.
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Thank you katie
I eat pretty health and am trying to eat lower carb but not lower than 150g a day. Higher protein and healthy fats. I don't eat processed foods so luckily have no labels to read.
I shall see what the next test shows, he is just repeating the HBA1C not the random sugar so I guess that will show him how it's been behaving since my last test.
Julie
Julie, may I ask how long since you checked your vitamin and ferritin levels? Are you still more in the direction of being vegan/vegetarian?
Just a thought that these areas may need your attention as well to ensure everything gets as good a chance at being absorbed.
Could your sex hormones be playing a role in any of this - have you had these checked out by your GP - might be worth keeping a diary log of what is going on in your life each day, stress levels and where you are in your cycle.
Best wishes that you start to get to the bottom of your triggers
in reply to
Hello
No I haven't been veggie/vegan in over 6 months. My ferritin is 34 in range 15-150, has been low for over 10 years. Iron is good at 14.6. Folate is fine. B12 has come up from 212 to almost 500. I am supplementing.
I haven't had any of my hormones checked. I take the pill (low dose one called loestrin 20) the last 4 years for heavy periods. My periods were heavy all my life, my ferritin dropped to 8 and I felt so ill I couldn't cope with such long heavy periods so finally agreed to try the pill. I hate taking it but it's been amazing and I don't have to worry at all about blood loss, but I do worry about taking hormones at my age. I am 37. It's the lowest dose but that still concerns me.
Alot of my triggers like I said above to Justina, are stress from my mother/siblings. I have to be careful because even talking to my mum on the phone, feeling that coldness and rejection from her can trigger me to crash. I find stress and upset a big trigger, more than physically over doing things.
Thank you for your kind reply.
Julie
What makes you think the anti depressants are a cause of my issues?
At the time I wasn't hypo, had no symptoms and had severe anxiety and didn't sleep for 6 months. My gp gave me them after 8 months of me trying to cope with it by myself. So I guess he treated me his patient based on a trauma and the anxiety it had caused. I wasn't actually depressed at the time but had serious ptsd and afraid I would be attached again so couldn't leave my home or sleep.
I'm taking vitamin c at around 1000mg a day. I take b12 and iron which I hope will keep rising my levels.
I've developed depression this last year for sure purely due to my awful situation of daily fatigue and crashes and how much it limits my life. I'm sure it is linked to thyroid but it's the situation causing it.
I know it's hard but on a positive note - at least your GP is trying to get to the bottom of your problems by running and repeating tests. No matter which way you look at it, it's best to find out what's going on and then you can deal with it. Your therapist is actually wrong to blame your GP for your anxiety but that seems to be what therapists do. You must have a physiological problem that's causing your fatigue and hence anxiety. The anxiety is a by-product of the fatigue and disappears when your body works correctly. Maybe not for everyone. One fuels the other in my opinion. No amount of anti-depressants or CBT ever helped me. Getting on the right dose of thyroid hormone plus sorting nutrient deficiencies has moved me along the road somewhat.
You're not on a huge dose of thyroxine yet so will probably need more but maybe not. When I was on T4 only I had similar blood results to you apart from FT3 was a little lower for me. I had crushing fatigue and crashes, anxiety/panic and high cortisol. It's worth noting that high cortisol increases RT3 as does low iron. You sound as if you have all the symptoms of CFS. RT3 causes CFS symptoms as insufficient T3 can enter the cells. A way to slow us down.
For me you have almost identical symptoms to how I was. Housebound pretty much, dreading life, panicking when the doorbell rang, etc. I'm not fixed but miles, miles better now. I don't go in a blind panic when someone rings my phone anymore.
in reply to
Thank you so much.
I do believe stress caused alot of my crashes because I crash after my mum has visit or during. Due to the fear and stress I feek about her being here due to our history. So she's a huge trigger as are my siblings. I've been noticing when I crash what happened leading up to it. I are looking crash after a day out or lots of housework. Anything emotional or too physical seems to do it. That's why my gp suspects cfs and stress are a huge cause. My therapist thinks the stress from the trauma and family wanting to still see my children and no fear that causes me is behind the crashes. It's psychological stress for sure.
This last year I hate even opening the door to the postman that's how anxious I get. I dread visitors as I know I will crash. I get anxious if anyone wants to talk to me in the street as I know I will have a panic attack. Socially I've become anxious. It's horrible. I have chronic fatigue daily which led to me becoming housebound and anxious going out which led to agoraphobia. I had agoraphobia and anxiety 4 years ago after I was attacked but i overcame it all then this last year it flooded back worse than ever so bad I had a panic attack at my gp and since I've not done appointments. It's left me afraid to do any appointments and my gp visits or calls me. It's awful and it's made me feel less of a wife and mother. My husband does the kids appointments or parents evenings, everything I'do got back out doing after the attack. It's so frustrating.
Dealing with the fatigue and weakness daily has had a huge effect on me daily and it's what led to all this anxiety and fear again.
I know my gp is being kind. He's very caring. It just makes me anxious free a year why he wants to suddenly wants to do more tests when all last year be blamed my fatigue on anxiety Lol.
I'm so glad you found a way out of this and are doing better. It gives me hope. Any advice would be so appreciated because right now I'm afraud to do anything incase I have a huge energy crash and end up bed ridden for days. I had mum here over Christmas for an afternoon and we had a big talk about things. She admitted she hadn't supported me the last 4 years etc and it was very emotional. I crashed for 3 after. I was in bed feeling so ill it scared me. Since I've been too afraid to let her visit and see the children so hubby has taken them to her house. I feel these crashes limit my life. I'm afraid to even take the kids to the park incase I crash. It's so frustrating and it makes me so upset my life is like this. I feel so confused why I crash so bad doing anything and on the days I do I have panic attacks all day purely out of fear of why they're happening. I think that's what my therapist meant about my gp as he's never confirmed why or confirmed why I even have fatigue, he just chases me with a needle trying to diagnose sone thing else.
Sorry for rambling on. Thank you for your kind reply.
Julie
in reply to
You definitely need your potassium raising. Usually this is done using slow release potassium and I believe optimal is around 4.1 [units]. I would ask GP to sort asap rather than waiting as I'm sure this can cause fatigue, anxiety and depression.
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My potassium has always sat around 3.5 I think that's why he's not too worried. He wants to repeat the test though soon. I've been making sure I'm eating potassium rich foods.
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I think I remember reading that at the top! Good idea eating potassium rich foods. If it's been just under the bottom of the range when you felt well then I wouldn't worry about it much
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Yes I think he said the most it's ever been is 3.6 lol!
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Not sure if you take zinc or chromium but both can help reduce cortisol.
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Oh I shall look into that. Thank you.
in reply to
I have some links to info that I'll try and find. I only know this as I had to stop certain supplements prior to my 24hr cortisol saliva test to get a baseline result.
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