Ok I feel I am a bit worried right now and need to get out how I feel. I hope noone minds me posting, I do have GAD so thought maybe this was the best place to post.
I am 36, 3 years ago I went through a stressful time. I lost my Nan suddenly, my brother turned violent on family members and when he turned violent on myself and my husband I cut him out of our lives. In doing so my mother and sisters cut me off as they said he was ill and couldn't help the way he was behaving. I gave him several chances, police involved yet things kept happening. So I ended up with no family, I was upset for a long time. Now i am fine and really happy. I still don't speak to my brother, my sisters I am civil with if I have to see them and I have a relationship with my mum that she would like to be closer but I keep family at arms length after they hurt me so badly. I am happily married, 36 years old and i have 3 amazing children. Just a bit of background there as to why my anxiety disorder began.
My anxiety manifested as panic attacks and after my first panic attack in a shop in December 2012 I became agoraphobic. By summer 2013 I was on 7.5mg of Mirtazapine and getting my life back. I was going out again and living, not as much as before but life was better. With the agoraphobia I lost 2 close friends who told me they couldn't cope with my agoraphobia because I couldn't go out. As a result I couldn't socialise after that and to this day I rarely ever socialise. Anyway I got my life back. Then in November 2013 my sister got intouch and said some pretty evil things to me which brought on a huge panic attack. Shortly after this I suffered intrusive thoughts that terrified me. I hid myself away from my family, I stayed in my room alot scared to be around people my thoughts terrified me. I ended up asking my GP to refer me to the mental health team as I was afraid something was seriously wrong with me. My GP said I had high anxiety but that was all, he said my family were toxic and the cause of all my anxiety and to stay away from them. At the mental health assessment he told me I had GAD and agoraphobia, he said a touch of OCD with the obsessional thoughts but he said that's just anxiety causing them. He to said that my anxiety was caused by my abusive family and to stay well away from them. It was around this time i went on Mirtazapine at 15mg to help as I was really low and anxious with everything that was going on. I think they helped me sleep, gain weight as I was only 84lbs and I felt a bit calmer.
Life got easier from there, infact it was good. I was driving out to town again, going to Costa for my hot chocolate, I even socialised with a friend a few times, I would visit other family members, go for walks, took my daughter to a concert, took my children on holiday the last 2 years, school plays.... I got my life back. Alone I couldn't do food shops or appointments, but with my husband with me I could so it was fine. Then in spring last year I started feeling really tired, brain fog, weakness and just a sheer exhaustion. Prior to this I was weight training, working out, yoga... I felt good. By summer I felt such awful fatigue I struggled to even do housework so I told my GP, he suspected it was my thyroid. He ran some bloods and my results were my TSH was 5.35 and my Free T4 was 11. He said I was fine but joining thyroid UK i was told I was definitely hypothyroid and it matched all my symptoms aswell as low b12, low ferritin.... I tried 3 GP's but none would listen.
Since September the fatigue just steadily got worse. I felt so tired every single day and with this I felt my anxiety and agoraphobia creeping back in. During a blood test to rule out diabetes in September I had a huge panic attack in the nurses room, I won't ever forget it. I felt such an idiot. Since then my agoraphobia hit hard, it made me lose all confidence in myself. I am beyond upset because last year I faced the dentist twice, opticians, took my daughter to appointments alone, took myself to the GP once alone, went for my smear test.....Ok hubby accompanied me to a few of the kids appointments but I was doing them so to have a huge anxiety attack at a blood test threw me and since then I haven't quite been myself. I stopped all socialising, felt scared going anywhere, and just so bloody tired.
In November my son had a terrible month with panic attacks and anxiety, every day was a battle to get him into school. He was bullied all of last year in primary school and it really affected him. I had to leave my son destroyed crying and begging me to not leave him there, texts from him all day begging me to pick him up as he was having constant panic. It was hell. He tole me he felt suicidal and my GP referred him to the childrens mental health team. They were no use and said I'd be the best person to help him considering I'd had CBT and had experience of anxiety. It was an awful time and with all the stress i feel i broke down. By the end of November I was struggling with dizziness daily where the ground moved when I walked, and I just felt so ill and drained. My GP came out twice and took blood, did tests and he said this was all anxiety and stress, he said I had been through a terrible time with my son. Thankfully now I have worked hard on CBT with my son he has improved greatly and things are looking up. CAMHS had a kick up the bum from the school and GP and are now agreeing they made a mistake and my son is on a waiting list to see a therapist.
Last weekend I woke up Saturday feeling so fatigued, my balance felt off again and I felt weak all over. I haven't felt wonderful since but a little better than I did. When I lay on my bed Saturday I felt like my head was dizzy and when I turned over onto on side and pushed myself up it felt like my head was thrown back and forth but it wasn't. Really strange. It scared me. I haven't seen my GP about it as he did tests and bloods, I am guessing it is just the stress and vertigo again. My husband said I didn't need to call my GP it's eased off now just left me shaken as it hit again after 2 weeks of no dizziness, but I was worried should I tell my GP I felt anxious on lying flat and when sitting up? because it wasn't like that before Christmas, those 4 weeks it was more walking on a boat feeling like the ground under my feet moved. My husband still said no I wouldn't bother unless it was really bad every day for a week which it hasn't so chill. I am still left wondering do I need to let him know. I don't know, I rarely see my GP and in the last 2 months i have seen him twice. It's not often I bother seeing a doctor unless i have to. I only saw him last year as in the summer as I had the fatigue.
I had CBT for 18 months in 2014/15 and it did help. I don't want to go back to therapy I know what I have to do to help anxiety but I feel this anxiety is coming from a much deeper cause. I feel it's coming from this awful fatigue. Every day I feel like i haven't slept when I have, I feel weak in my legs, stinging heavy eyes, I feel cold alot and when I have a sudden cold spell I feel my body goes really heavy and like the floor isn't supporting my feet like i will fall through it, my throat goes heavy often but not like panic, I feel a general unease all the time and anxious. Not panic attacks or fast heart, shakes or anything just feel on edge. I cry sometimes because I worry why I feel so tired. I did hoovering today and afterwards had to sit down as I felt so weak after it, why? I am 36!! This isn't fair leaving me like this.
My GP ran bloods last month and it was in the afternoon after I'd eaten which I have read doesn't give accurate TSH readings for thyroid results. My thryoid TSH was 2.95 and T4 had dropped to 10.2. Ranges here in the part of the UK I am from are TSH 0.35-5.5 and T4 7.0-17. My GP said they don't treat thyroid until TSH is 10 despite symptoms. I give up trying with them. My mum is hypothyroid, as are her siblings and my grandmother was hyperthyroid. I also have high cholesterol which is linked to hypothyroidism, I eat well, don't smoke or drink, I should not be suffering with these problems. I worry is it Mirtazapine causing it all as it's sedating, is it messing up my cholesterol and thyroid......
Sorry to moan but my head is a jumble and I needed to get it out. Before the dizziness in November i was slowly struggling with agoraphobia again but I'd go to small shops alone and with the kids, big shops with hubby fine, walks, visit family..... Since my anxiety began in 2012 I have found it tough socialising, any big upcoming event I get anxiety for weeks before, I still do it's just how I react to pressure i guess. I want to work on the agoraphobia but the dizziness and fatigue has hit me hard. I said to my GP in the summer I am not anxious therefore I am tired and agoraphobic. I am fatigued and weak therefore I feel anxious and scared to go out feeling so weak. Does that make sense? I know if I woke up tomorrow with no fatigue and weakness I'd be fine. I'd be out living and facing my agoraphobia each day, setting weekly goals, setting myself challenges. I know how to overcome it as I have been through it, and the same with my anxiety. I still have social anxiety and hate socialising but that is due to people hurting me and I know i have to one day work at that too. I just know I feel this bad because of how fatigued I am.
I get anxious about appointments, my GP came to me twice last month as I was too scared to go there after the panic attack. I was also too dizzy and fatigued to go. I just hate how i feel, I worry what if he sends me for scans or hospital appointments I can't even go in the GP surgery let alone hospital. I can't even take my kids to the GP if they need to at the moment my husband does and it's all because this fatigue makes me feel so ill and therefore anxious. Can anyone relate? So I live in fear of what if I faint and end up in hospital, how on earth would I cope, what if I need a brain scan because of the dizziness I couldn't even go..... what if's all day. I get so down about the agoraphobia again, I rarely get out other than taking the kids to school and to small shops with hubby at the weekend, we go for drives and a sit in the park which right now i can do and it's nice. I love my life I really do but I hate this fatigue and I know how to overcome my anxiety so I am really frustrated this fear of appointments and socialising is back so bad because of how fatigued and weak I am. I get anxious if anyone knocks on my door I am that exhausted at the moment, i can't face people feeling so tired and I look exhausted to. I am annoyed I guess, annoyed at myself because I was living normally again and facing appointments with some anxiety but not bad enough I'd not got. Now I can't face any and I worry why am I like this, other people will have illnesses and see their GP without having a panic attack or almost fainting.
Daily I get up, shower and make up on, kids to school and then come home do a little cleaning them rest. Lunch time I do some gentle yoga and then at 3 I pick my children up, I cook, feed all my pets, tidy up and rest again in the evening. I feel everything is an effort, I have no energy and cannot wait to sit down again. I feel sometimes cry at how tough I find each day, I am existing at the moment and it sucks. I love my life, I love my husband and children, we have a great life. I just feel being this tired I let them down, and with it triggering my agoraphobia I do less right now so worry I let everyone down even more. My husband told me off recently and said you took your daughter to the cinema with me over Christmas, you walked the dogs with me, you did 2 food shops with me in Aldi, you took the kids to town one day alone and went to shops alone without me, stop being so hard on yourself.
Sorry this turned into one big ramble. I just feel lost, not sure what's wrong with me, will I ever be able to do appointments again, why all this fatigue had to spoil how well I was doing.... it really has been a tough few years but I made HUGE progress, this fatigue has hit me hard and brought everything back that i had overcome.
Hello. Well you have given a nice clear account of whats been going on. I notice you mentioned that you had had CBT at some point. Clearly, it was insufficient. I am not surprised at the reaction of the mental health team you dont have a mental illness. You have a psychological illness, which requires a psychological treatment.
You yourself have pointed to the toxic relationships with your wider family as a contributor to your illness - I say contributor because my feeling is that the trigger incident is something else. Almost the first thing you pointed out was the sudden death of your grandmother, and that is a big indicator of how much that affected your emotional state. The stuff with your family was only mentioned after that. In addition, the concerns about your son will also be playing their part in contributing to your anxiety. But you know all of this.
I was intrigued to read that you dont want to go back to therapy - even though you said that it helped before. I wonder why the negative reaction to going back to it.
As for medication - it might help mask your symptoms for a time - even for a long time - but it does nothing to address the real root cause of the illness. That is why therapy is by far the most successful treatment for this kind of illness. Of course you have to want to do it. Sometimes we get scared by what therapy will reveal and what it will make us face, and that is understandable. The way I look at it as this - if i had say cancer in some part of me that could be treated by having a huge scary operation, then of course I am going to face that in order to live and have a better quality of life. Psychological illness is not any less serious than physical illness. It can destroy people's lives. But of course the decision about therapy is one that only you can make.
Karl
• in reply to
Thank you Karl
I had CBT with a psychologist for 18 months, it helped tremendously with the intrusive thoughts, ocd and anxiety I was experiencing but having to go private it cost me a fortune. The NHS wait for CBT was 18 months and at the time I didn't want to wait that long. I don't want to return because I have learnt all I need to know and all these symptoms I currently feel are due to how tired I am and how weak I feel. Feeling fatigued all day is horrible, you just can't do anything. If that was addressed I could overcome the lingering anxiety because I have the tools in my toolbox to do that.
I only stay on the medication because I am scared of withdrawal and right now I am not sure my body could go through that aswell as everything else i have going on. I have also heard withdrawal from Mirtazapine is really bad so I can't cope with that when I feel ill enough with the fatigue and weakness. I don't feel it helps anymore and to be honest I didn't want to take it anyway, I am so against taking medication, I hate it but at the time i felt bullied into it by my GP, he was saying it was the only way he could help my anxiety, the NHS were useless with CBT.
Losing my Nan was a huge loss but the violence with my brother due to his personality disorder and other MH issues led to me being anxious. My family treated me terribly and losing them all was a shock when it was my brother at fault for the way he scared me and my family. I believe losing my Nan did contribute to my anxiety, of course but my brother had bullied me and my family for a year and in the end the stress of his behaviour took it's toll on me. I have dealt with all that though, I had talking therapy for 6 months after that and then 18 months of CBT/ERP. I don't see the point in spending £60 a week again when it's what I have learnt before. I really do know how to overcome any anxiety setback but this physical problem is causing it and knocking my confidence.
Hi Jingy, I think I've answered you before somewhere on another topic. Be prepared to make some notes of website names, as you read my reply to your post here.
However I'd not read much of your post before I started thinking, "it's her meds" they are messing with her brain - the neuroreceptors and neurotransmitters.
I don't understand all the acronyms (initials) you use or what they mean. Yes I know what agoraphobia is, I had a friend in UK with it, she also suffered with depression. strangely when the depression went, so did the agoraphobia!
When she had a panic attack after a couple of minor car accidents with their drive gate posts and an intolerant husband, she then gave up driving. Till I talked her sometime after, into letting me drive her car to an almost empty public car Park, then we changed seats, I got her to drive round the car park, changing gear, driving into and/or reversing between 2 parked cars. We did this on a few separate days for around 30 mins or so, till she got her confidence back. I also told her husband to stop being so nasty and intolerant with her. It was just the male macho pride. Fortunately we were very good friends with them both, so no offence was taken. My friend has not had accidents since!
I relate that purely to show I understand where you are coming from and yes I did read it all, although I felt I didn't need to and yes just like drugs are toxic, so families friends who don't "understand" what is happening to you, probably don't have the time or patience to just sit and talk, or listen to you, mainly because they simply don't understand or see things from your point of view. You are obviously close to your mum, from her unspoken point of view - she is piggy in the middle between you and your siblings - she as a mum, loves all of you, probably feels she can't take sides either in conversations or reality. I bet she understands you though, if not all or any of the effects medication can have on all of us.
Wrongly prescribed or interacting meds can have devastating effects on our 'brains' and physical health, as does STRESS on mentally, emotionally and physically, all affect our health. I always suggest to anyone and everyone now to check their medications, taking note of Pharmacuetical company that makes it. The name of the med, be it original or Generic, plus the dose it's listed as, be it in mg or mcg - on drugs.com. Check the ingredients on the leaflet supplied, also read about side effects before you ever start taking any medication, be it prescribed or OTC ( over the counter). Use the drugs.com website properly. There is an app for it, relevant to the Operating Software on your computer. Mine is Apple IOS. The app site should give you a choice of OS apps to choose from. Cuts down the list of choices if you only looks at apps for your OS. When you find the right one and open it on Drugs.com. Spend time looking at the pages properly. Open your own 'personal' account (everything is free) Sign up for email alerts also. Another good website is ncbi.nih.nim. That will let you research individual conditions. As will Wikipedia if you just put the name of a health condition, it will give a brief cexplanation and there will be a list of website links. Be careful use only HonCode or Trusted websites - those names you should see at the bottom of the opening page on the website. These are genuine websites, giving scientific based information.
Many website owners just want to sell you something online, claiming a Miracle cure, or some such silly idea! As soon as you've given them your email details, then you could be inundated or forever find related ads for something else. And of course as we all know, many sell lists of email addresses on to other people! I've come off more websites than I've joined, by clicking the remove from emailing button. The ncbi website will link you to Medline and/or Webmed websites. Both also seem to very good.
Back to your situation. Your son sounds quite young, if you were going through the family emotional stress or taking OTC or prescribed meds, you could have started a genetic inheritance link there OR NOT. But if your son sees you getting stressed and anxious it could be a trigger for him as well. I don't know, it's just a theory!
Biology :- do you know that meds, especially if NOT taken exactly as prescribed, or against manufacturers leaflet instructions, CAN have harmful effects on the liver, leaving toxins there. The blood stream of course also supplies the liver, and carries toxins from the liver to the brain - that, my theory is why there are many neurological problems caused, like being emotional, lack of concentration, brain fog, all these things also affect our personalities, the changes family and friends don't understand.
I say all above only because of my own personal health and life experiences, plus having had a dad who was professionally employed as a Pyschoanalyst! Some of the good genes Ive inherited, along with some bad health ones!
So now because of my health I started researching a few months ago into the Why of it all, from birth, analysing what was relevant to me and what was not!
However in the course of my research and the Communities I'm on, I kept seeing too many of the same health conditions, anxiety and other emotional problems stemming from two things. Similiar health conditions and family/relationship problems on almost each and every community. The Thyroid UK community seems mostly to deal with blood test results and related supplement suggestions to,help with anxiety etc.
They also focus a lot on the correct nutrients our body needs. They are correct - the food we eat and what is in it, is extremely important to our health and well-being. The whole endocrine system (our organs, glands etc., is nourished or not by what we do or don't put into it! Excercise and fresh air is also important.
Through my research and altering what I eat when has made an enormous beneficial difference to me. As for the stress and sleeping problems I had, I now take a natural supplement recommend to me by my pharmacist.
Despite my other health problems, I stopped taking all meds just over a year ago except for the Levothyroixine for my Hypothroiditis.
The supplement I now take, was suggested because I showed the Pharmacist, just over 2 months ago, my 3 sheets of blood test results, discussed my overall health history with him, told him what I want to achieve as an end result, when he suggested the one I take. It's helped clean up the toxic bad bacteria lying in my gut, I will need to start taking probiotics when I next visit him, to try and keep it that way as well. I can only describe the effects of it as making me feel lighter and brighter. I am eating more and better but my weight is staying the same, having lost over 3 stone in the last 3 years, which means my metabolism is working much better now for me, not against me! The brain fog, confusion, stress, being over emotional and temperamental has gone, my mind is better, as is my brain and yes, there is a difference between the two!
I feel physically energised and happier in myself.
Sadly I cant stop your current anxiety, but I do understand it! I have 2 married sons and their families living in the UK - we don't communicate either, for the same reasons, they don't understand! My marriage broke up, I had a brain haemmorhage with subsequent brain injury effects, organised 3 moves on my own, car accident writing my car off, after last move, before where I am now.
I had to start making a new life for myself all here in France while learning a new language and making new friends - all since 2013 - that's enough stress for 3 centuries lol ! But I'm fine, not healthy but happy now. I'm also pleased to share my research knowledge with others - as and when I can, because I do understand people!
But 8 hours total on a computer is long enough for me for now in,one day. I do smoke by the way, I'm about to wash and change, do down to the village bar cafe and have a drink with the locals. PM me re this post, if YOU want, it's better than having my inbox filled up with emails from HU. I do hope I've helped you a little with the websites I've suggested.,have a lovely evening doing some of your own research now which I'm sure will also help you.
We the fatigue I can agree totally with you on and being afraid to even open you door to people I too am agoraphobic and have been 7 years now and even if u got the help with that I'd vee far too fatigued to even go out as doing the smallest of things tires me out terribly
Ah yes it's a very long time I've been out I'd absolutely necessary only to the doctors or dentist but that was a while ago now so I've not really been out in maybe a year and half only to the hospital for a weeks stay due to the anxiety ah yes the dizziness is awful I must admit but I think I'm kinda used to it in a way because I've had it for 20 years of you become less scared or bothered by it it will ease of but I know that's easier said ah thank you and you too if you want to chat im here pm me when you like ☺
Hi twinkle, the permanent fatigue could be down to nutritional, deficiencies.
You need some blood tests,,but for now, to start,,it sounds like you might need to have a good daily dose of Vitmin C. Sorry it's not a more helpful reply.
Yes you're probably right my food intake has been very poor for quite some time I've had a few blood tests with more to come and yes I think vitamins is a good idea I do take them but maybe certain ones will help more thank you ☺
Hi Jingyd. I have been agoraphobic for 6 years now. I do not answer the door. As a matter of fact, my heart speeds up when I hear the doorbell ring at my home as well as on tv. I do not answer the phone even though I have caller ID. I don't care to talk with anyone because that makes me anxious. My throat gets tight when I do as well as I get full headed. I worry what I'd do if a family member died. Would I be able to make it to the funeral. I pray my daughter doesn't have to go to the ER because I can't handle more stress. It goes on and on. I've started getting out some but am far from being cured. Wishing you well.
In 2013 I couldn't even get out of bed, But I am fine now and working full time + freelancing. I had mirtzapine and had to get off it to start recovering. It's not a bad drug but for me it induced Chronic Fatigue. I'm actually taking nothing now, and I managed to exercise again which was key in my recovery.
I've now discovered that altering my diet really finally fixed everything. I had no clue I was affected by what I was eating. I did write a post about that today: healthunlocked.com/anxietys...
I thought changing my lifestyle would be too hard BUT I'm so much better that it's completely worth it. I did something crazy called the whole30. it's a million percent worth it though.
I think supplemental B12 could be a good first step for you in getting your energy back.
Thank you. I eat well and are b12 amongst other vitamins.
Did you find chronic fatigue lifted once off mirtazapine?
How long were you on Mirtazapine? I've been on it over 2 years and it made me tired initially but this is more recent so I can't see its the medication after all this time. I do want to come off it this year but I know that'll be tough as I've heard the withdrawal is horrible so I'm scared to withdraw and feel stuck on it.
Cortisol is a "stress hormone" so it *sounds* like a bad thing, but it'a also what wakes you up in the morning and helps you cope in stressful situations. I was very low. It turns out Mirtazapine suppresses/inhibits cortisol. And this is why it was giving me the Chronic Fatigue set of symptoms.
I was on for 1.5 years or so...And Mirtazapine was GREAT becasue it made sleeping possible and unlike other ADs I didn't get any of the scary side effects. So initially I felt a LOT better, it also helped me to eat. Withdrawal from Mirt. was a piece of cake, actually, don't be stressed about it. I came of benzodiazapines too (ativan, klonopin etc) and that is really the benchmark of awfulness.
I did taper of Mirtazapine, from 30 down to 15, then 7.5. The super interesting thing is that I felt much much better after cutting down, so much s that I know I was on the right track. The great thing is that Mirt is a much more effective sleep aid at low doses than high so you may even find it still helps you sleep at might at 3.5!
When you get to the point where you are withdrawing, message me and I'll totally help you through it!
Thank you so much. I am.wondering if mirtazapine is causing a lot of my problems. My thyroid is over range, my diabetes test was borderline and cholesterol high.
It's been great for sleeping and helped me gain weight as I was stick thin from anxiety. I'm now a good weight but if like to lose a bit. Did you lose weight when you came off it?
I am thinking I may come off it this spring. I'm just so worried why I'm off balance (ground bouncing feeling when I walk) and fatigued that my anxiety is sky high lately so I'm guessing not the right time to throw withdrawal into the mix.
Did you withdraw slowly? I've been on 15mg 2 years. Hoping withdrawal won't be as bad as some have said. You've reassured me thank you.
In august 2013 I just *knew* I needed to cut the mirtazapine it was this thing I felt...and my doctors were like "no no no" And I really was at my very worst so even to me it seemed sort of crazy to do it. But that's hen I cut from 30 to 15. In October 15 to 7.5 and then as SOON as I was done for the christmas break (I work at a university, and by work...at that time was barely functional, worked part time, and had to have my husband drive me to work, and stay there with me until I would collapse half way through the day and have to go home... god....It was such a nightmare, and I was so ashamed and scared).
Where was I, right, xmas break. I went to my naturopath, got a vitamin b12 shot and then made my last cut right from 7.5 down to zero. I was SO excited to do it. I can't think of a single real withdrawal symptom...tingly feet maybe...and it turned out that could have been from the B12!
I was still so damaged and out of shape (and not overweight, I never gained weight on mirt) I had NO muscles, it was gross how sickly and weak I was. But by late spring (April) when the next semester was over I started walking, I was so prepared for it to kill me, my heart would just go and go doing simple walks. I walked more and more. Just a bit down the street, just a bit further, etc. Then My hubby and I started playing "tennis" ha...we didn't know how to play...but for some reason this was so distracting that I wasn't just worrying about dying. we did a little more and a little more. Then I ran one lap of the track at the high school. Now I've done couch to 5k twice! and a squats challenge and the WONDERful Yoga Camp from "Yoga with Adriene" (<---do this when you are better).
It was harder for me to get over the psychological trauma of what I had been through. That's where working through health anxiety CBT modules and Hypnosis came in.
Finally recently I went gluten free and did the "whole 30" which cleared up my depression and anxiety, and residual health stuff really effectively except for all the weird learned avoidance behaviours.
Also meant to write: I simply could not exercise when on the Mirtazapine, I would have almost an allergic reaction/crash when I did. In the CFS community they call it "post exertional malaise" or PEM I also had a hard time standing up without blood pressure drops which may have come out of being so deconditioned from spending so much time having to lie down, wasted leg muscles. It all just sort of compounds.
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