2 1/4 grains of Thiroyd-S and exhausted - Thyroid UK

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2 1/4 grains of Thiroyd-S and exhausted


Can anyone advise me please? I am on 2 1/4 grains of NDT, taken 1 grain at 7am, 1 grain at 12am, and 1/4 at around 5pm. i still feel as weak as a kitty, but part of the problem is lack of sleep.

I don't know what to do - if I am tired during the day, do I have a nap or will that spoil my chance of sleeping at night? If i take more NDT, my heartbeat pounds and gets above 80 - if i persist in the raised level of NDT, will it calm down? Or should i supplement with either T3 or T4/ My last thyroid test showed T3 at slightly high, T4 at slightly low and TSH low - this was when I was on Levo at 50mcg, and T3 at 10mcg X 3 a day, so the endo has given a private script for NDT (but had switched ti NDT just before he gave the script, unbeknownst to him).

Not sure if I'm taking the NDT at the right times, or if I need to take T3/T4 as above, or what the hell to do. i take Nutri Adrenal extra, 3 tabs a day, nutri thyroid, 3 tabs a day, 1000mg B12, 20mg CoQ10, zince and selenium - as close to morning as I can since i usually get round to breakfast at after 10, and then Vit D 10,000IU, calcium and magnesium tabs at night - when i remember.

I am getting close to giving up and just settling for being a damned basket case. i feel so weak, confused and drained - I have stopped eating carbs more or less (very small quantities) and still feel like a wrung out rag, fat and in pain and stupefied. Can't take in any more info - feel like I'm dying - and don't much care.

Sorry to moan - and it has taken 3 goes to write this - between rests on the bloody bed. Is this a damn life? And I'm getting thrown off benefits in September - the fear is also so draining.

should I increase the NDT? If so, how much, how often and when do I know when to stop? My last temperature was 56.5 in the morning, pulse at 70. Any suggestions would be gratefully received, although it will take me a while to get back.


19 Replies

Sleep is very important in this recovery programme! What's your present routine sleep wise?


Schenks in reply to sporty333

Hi, Simon, thanks for asking - my sleep is utterly buggered. There are days when I just am not tired and my brain will not switch off. I try to be in bed by 11 but that stretches on occasions to 12 or - rarely - later. but if i go to bed and can't sleep, my thoughts go wild and i get really anxious, which is why I am thinking of switching to cortex supplements as opposed to adrenal supplements. But if I can't sleep, I now try to just read, so the light is low - to try not to kickstart my brain by using bright lighted screens of TV or email. And if I do manage to get to sleep at a reasonable hour, I only sleep for about 3 hours or so before I suddenly wake up.

sporty333 in reply to Schenks

yeah i believe my sleep improved when i started the CT3M. I get zonked by 10 pm most nights and i'm out! Sleep ok but can wake in the early morning sometimes but get back to sleep. Getting to bed by 10pm is very important to recovery.

I was going to recommend you some sleep aids but by the sounds of it, your problems are solely hormonal..... :0/

Schenks in reply to sporty333

Hi sporty - I think that getting to bed is the key. what is weird is i seem to have an aversion to doing so - i mean a real thing about it. I can't seem to discipline myself - I think it's something to do with the fact that my days are so full of ennui, it seems like a waste to go to bed. It's become a bit of a psychological problem, I think. I will gen up on the CT3M thing, but right now i have the concentration span of a brick!

sporty333 in reply to Schenks

Yeah I was like that re going to bed early! Would fight it and I believe that's partly the adrenals, waiting for that second wind! I'm so tired by 10 now days I look forward to lights out lol

Schenks in reply to sporty333

Second wind, sporty? Sorry, I might be being a bit thick, but it's really interesting to find someone who was like this and has overcome it. Why do you think you fought it?

sporty333 in reply to Schenks

yeah the old second wind adrenal thing, you're right. I'd quite often fall asleep as soon as i laid down in the evening...say 8.30...then wouldn't get to sleep until say 11.30 pm. It then became all about not falling asleep that early and getting the light out as soon as i was falling asleep say after 9.30. I felt i didn't want to go to sleep that early...at 10. would always fight it. Now i don't in the week and turn off at the lately, say 10.30. I suppose after all those years being an adult i thought going to bed before 12 was fine lol A whole new education this getting ill, isn't it!

So for me, the big changes were

1. not fighting the sleep and getting to bed and electrics off at 10.00pm and no later.

2. Buying a Grounding Sheet.

3. Last weekend the Black out Blind.

4. doing the CT3M initially.

A obviously an honest days work helps! lol

Hi Schenks - I think you could try an increase to 2.5 grains. I have found that I can get pounding/faster heart rate when I increase, but these usually calm down after a few days. To be honest, I don't think a heart rate in the 80s is anything to worry about - I don't like mine going over 90 but feel I am fine with it in the 80s.

I'm not sure you need to be taking the Nutri Thyroid, as this is a weaker form on non-prescription NDT (in my experience anyway). Maybe stop the Nutri Thyroid and increase the NDT. I personally didn't get on very well with Nutri Adrenal, and found adopting the CT3M much better for my adrenals.

I am on 2.5 grains and take it as follows:

1 grain at 5am (CT3M dose)

1 grain at 11am

1/2 a grain at 5pm

This seems to be working well for me at the moment, but we are all different and this may not be right for you - but might be worth a go.

Clare xx

Schenks in reply to Clarebear

Hi, Clare - thanks for this. I wondered if the heartrate thing would calm down - so it takes a few days? Will try to persevere for a few days and see what happens. It feels so racy in the 80s - especially after being stable for years on 125mcg of Levo since the early 1980s and with a heartrate in the low 60s! I was really 'normal' omn that dose until i was bullied and harassed at work for months and my health broke completely in 2007, so poor stress response is one factor I'm sure, which is why I am looking into the adrenal type supplementation. I am so tired I can't quite get my head round the CT3M thing - can't face even trying right now, but I think that 5am sounds good, except that if I woke up on the alarm to take the meds at theat time, i don't think I'd get to sleep again - and so the beat goes on. The thing is, it's the CT3M routine that addresses the adrenal problem, so I really need to get to grips with it, and if the circadian rhythm is the problem for my adrenals, which Dr P told me must be shot, then crappy sleep is really going to blow me out the water, isn't it?

Not realised that the nutrithyroid was like NDT - will reduce to nil and see what happens. do you think I could just stop taking them, or should I come down gradually?

Will up to 2 1/2 grains, though, and see how I go.

Thanks, kid.


Clarebear in reply to Schenks

Re the Nutri Thyroid I think you could stop completely the day that you increase to 2.5 grain. I asked Dr P how strong they were and I think he reckoned about a 1/4 of a grain, but not sure exactly.

Starting CT3M is hard and I was worried about exactly the same thing - waking up and then not going back to sleep. Paul R assured me that things would improve and I would start going back to sleep. It has taken a while but I do generally go back to sleep now, even if sometimes it feels more like a doze. I am definitely more energetic too.

I think it could well be your adrenals causing the fast heart rate, so CT3M might be the answer...

Clare xx

boo16 in reply to Clarebear

Apologies to Schenks for butting in on her thread, but is it correct Clarebear that Nutri Thyroid are about 1/4 grain as they are supposed to have no 'hormones'? I am currently taking 6 on top of my levo and if they are 1/4 grain that, I assume, would indicate that I should tolerate NDT? x

Clarebear in reply to boo16

Hi boo - this is very difficult to answer. According to the bottle there are no hormones in Nutri thyroid. However Dr P told me there are and my experience is that there must be due to effect on my blood tests :D

I would suggest doing a search on this site for Nutri (Nutri thyroid won't work as it doesn't seem to like two words), and then you can make a judgement

I switched from thyroxine to NDT but still found it difficult but worth it in the end. Xx

Clarebear in reply to Clarebear

Ps my experiences are on the second page of the search... :)

Schenks in reply to Clarebear

Going to stop the nurti thyroid - and just bought another 180 tabs and all! Sorry to bother you, but I can't find where the link for the CT3M is - and someone gave it to me not long ago - I thought I bookmarked it, but I found my car keys in the freezer the other day, so I reckon i can forget the blasted bookmarks and need to start again - if you get my rambling drift!!

Clarebear in reply to Schenks

Here is a link to Paul's website:


I see he has also done a series of youtube clips too, so here is a link to the first one:


I haven't watched these myself though... :D xx

Might be worth trying a different brand. I ended up hypo on thyroid s and on erfa, but do well on thiroyd and Naturethroid.

Not thought of that, galathea, thanks. actually - and get this - my NHS endo has given me a private prescription for Armour, but I bought the Thiroyd S in bulk. the difference in price would be £75 vs £500 - so it is a bit of a drain, but I think I'll get the first lot of Armour and swap to see if it might help, now that you've pointed that pout.


People have reported that taking vitamin D in the latter half of the day affects their sleep.


Oh, for god's sake! I've been taking it in the evening, so that i can take the calcium with it which is needed for its assimilation, apparently, and you can't take calcium supplements within 4 hours of taking thyroid hormone!

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