T3 only and blood tests too much or too little - ideas welcome!

[sarahstevenson]

In March 2012 I was on 37.5mcg cynomel and bloods came back as

TSH 0.07 (0.3 - 0.5)

fT3 14.7 (4 - 8.3)

fT4 2.7 (10 - 24)

Ferritin 5 (70 - 90)

Calcium 2.52 ?

TPO 917 <50

Vit D 31 (told LOW )

NHS panicked at lowered TSH raised fT3 and LOW Ferritin.

In Dec 2012 after several wild goose chases and other fowl by the NHS I was on 30mcg liothyronine NHS and bloods came back as ( same lab ranges)

TSH 1.03

fT3 5.6

fT4 1.7

B12 702

Ferritin 56

I have been trying to up dose thinking it would be nice to be awake sometimes in the evening and to further reduce all the other current hypo symptoms.

Reasoning : the TSH could be lower and safe (will be suppressed on T3) and that the fT3 could be higher and safe.

Now on 45mcg CT3 method split 20 5:00am 15 11:30 ish 10 17:00 ish for last 5 days with occasional racey feeling and quick passing heat surges ( could be menopause) Sometimes the dose seems to calm the racey feeling especially at 5:00am.

I have been awake but am having misgivings whether I am going in the right direction as nothing seems clear. Looking back at previous results maybe I have to be careful after all? (Could be foggy thinking creeping back)

Temps seem similar - if anything smaller range on 45mcg.

Pulse seems lower has been wover 90 at rest in the past and now in range.

Blood Pressure seems if anything mostly low systolic or low in range diastolic with an occasional blip.

I am also on

NAX x1 NA x 2 Vit C ( Dr P)

Ferrous gluconate / vit D (fultium) ( NHS)

Vit B complex ( physio / homeopath)

Observations / ideas welcome

Thank you clever folk

Hurrah some sunshine sleeves up must go and bask ! Brrrr

[shaws]

I cannot answer your question. I will say I am on NDT and have a TSH of 0.01 and am well. If you are on T3 alone your T4 will be low.

This is a link which may give you some info

web.archive.org/web/2010122...

[sarahstevenson in reply to shaws]

Thanks for this Shaws !

Confirms TSH can be so suppressed and still for you to be OK.

Also many thanks for the link.

Again confirms -

TSH fT3 fT4 can all be misleading as indicators for medication with varying results for the same patient on the same day.

Temps, pulse and bp can be more helpful but still depend on issues such as type of thermometer / monitor

The question re food is really helpful as maybe I could try the taking one dose a day regime away from food.

Still trialling

Sun out and wind less blustery hurrah !

THANK YOU

[shaws in reply to sarahstevenson]

I hope it works out for you. I take my NDT plus some T3 once a day and feel fine,

[sarahstevenson in reply to shaws]

Thanks Shaws am wondering whether to add in NT instead of more T3 and to look again at dose timings one v CT3

decisions decisions

[shaws in reply to sarahstevenson]

I found this page very useful.

web.archive.org/web/2010103...

[shaws in reply to shaws]

This is a separate excerpt

I now take 100 mcg per day. I'm doing your protocol as you describe it in Your Guide to Metabolic Health. I take vitamin supplements daily and exercise at least three times a week. Since I started the protocol and Cytomel, I've regained my life. I have no more pain, no migraines, no swelling, no tingling, no insomnia, and I'm no longer cold all the time. The list of improvements goes on and on. For example, I've lost 65 lbs. I feel great. I suffered for 10 years of my life without a correct diagnosis, so needless to say, I don't want to go back.

The problem I'm facing is that my TSH is very low and my T3 is high. On occasion, I feel that my heart is pounding or I feel anxious. Other than these symptoms every once in a while, I don't feel overstimulated. But because of these symptoms and the lab results, my doctor wants to take me totally off T3 and send me to a local endocrinologist. I've inquired at the endocrinologist's office and learned that he doesn't believe in using Cytomel or your protocol. What can I do? There must be other options than just taking the Cytomel away completely. I feel good now and live an active lifestyle. I don't want that taken away. Please help. I'm desperate not to go back to the way I was before.

web.archive.org/web/2010103...

.

[sarahstevenson in reply to shaws]

THANK YOU Shaws very much appreciated _ will read later today - having a"funny morning" after dental treatment yesterday pre root canal work - yuk - dont think the meds suit me !!

[shaws in reply to sarahstevenson]

Does the dental anaesthetic have a bad affect on you

[sarahstevenson in reply to shaws]

Hi Shaws

think I have solved the mystery after trip back to the dentist will post in a blog as it may help others too

[Moggie]

I used to get hot flushes and fast heart rate when I was on a T3/T4 combo - my TSH was undetectable and I will admit myself that I was over medicated. Sounds to me like you need to reduce the amount of T3 you are taking.

As you are low in vitD and Iron this could be stopping your body using the T3 properly hence the high FT3 level, low TSH level and you still feeling ill and I'm not suprised that the NHS has gone into a spin given that your heart is also racing.

Moggie x

[sarahstevenson in reply to Moggie]

hi Moggie

NHS dont know my heart can be racey - they haven't asked and I haven't had time in an appt to say - discharged as "cured" by the endo and GP more intent on checking I'm NOT depressed!

Strangely I can feel "racey" and then this subsides when I take a T3 dose.

I was much worse on T3/T4 and even worse on T4 only - and yes the Iron Vit D issue is ongoing - I wonder whether this is the reason I didn't do well on any amount of T4.

Thanks for your ideas and time

- hoping for more sunny hours

[NaamiSue in reply to sarahstevenson]

Hi Sarah,

This whole arena is sooooooooo complicated....... I have been T3 only for over 3 1/2 years and as time has gone by I really wish I had a bit of T4 in the mix. I have tried to bring T4 back in twice in the last year with no success.

What I do observe is that my body is as unhappy with too little T3 as it is with too much. My whole system seems to be acutely sensitive or perhaps my adrenals are still 'challenged'. I don't do at all well with large doses of T3, used to be able to tolerate 20mcg in one go but am not sure if this would work for me now.....

I take 40mcg daily and split this into 4 x 10mcg doses, taken approx 5.00am, 10-11am, 3-5pm and bedtime. I do appear to manage better in the evening with a longer time lapse between doses (probably residual build up from the earlier doses and slightly less active, also may be in line with the bodies natural rhythm...who knows?)

What I have definitely identified is how much more stable the T3 has been since I eliminated wheat, gluten, dairy and a few other things along the way from my diet. I absolutely know that the food intolerances were interfering with my absorption, conversion and uptake of thyroid hormone.

Hope this helps and good luck with the trickiest journey on the planet....solving the mystery of the THYROID!!!!!!

Much Love,

Sue xxx

[sarahstevenson]

Thanks very much Sue -

All ideas helpful to consider!

Adrenals have certainly been an issue for me - maybe post kidney removal in 1995 - or just because they are. Trying to balance adrenal support and thyroid certainly demands "cunning planning".

Food is one of my challenges with dairy, citrus , red meats, potatoes, caffeine and even some types of lettuce ( really ) having been implicated in the past. I try to be Low Fat after a gall stone diagnosis and deciding to opt out of the proferred surgery - want to avoid that route if possible. Am allowing myself a little when I take my Vit D.

Next steps may be to

try Nutri thyroid again with its little amount of T4 -like you it would be good to see if I can tolerate it, especially as my ferritin and Vit D should be building.

to look again at timing - your idea of 4 x10mcg could be a way

OR to look at the thyroid absorption culprits again.

I do think like you that the balance is s fine line both to find and to follow.

Best Wishes and warm sunny thoughts on this freezing day !

Love Sarah X

[NaamiSue in reply to sarahstevenson]

Hi Sarah,

I do believe the answer lies in the health of the gut! I have started to muscle test most of my foods and when I am able to be consistent with this I do see an overall improvement and clarity in myself.

In fact when I went shopping on Tuesday I was muscle testing everything, any one watching must have thought me completely crazy LOL!!!!

I do believe the lettuce thing as I was told a couple of weeks ago that I am sensitive to iceberg lettuce amongst various other things.....the worst news was onion which I use in just about everything I cook

When we have unknown food intolerances this is causing the body to be very toxic and this will then put a load on the adrenals, I personally believe this is why the Paloe diet works well for many people, because it excludes most known irritants. If this toxicity/adrenal cycle is going on then I have to wonder if the fast acting T3 is an easy route to go, as too much T3 will send the body into a 'spin' so to speak.

The last time I tried to bring T4 back in I tried Nature Throid and sadly I had the same bloating and weight gain I had with Levo last year. I shall give T4 another go when I feel my gut is even healthier than it is presently and try and find something without magnesium stearate and steric acid.....I think I have a problem with both or either of these as all tablets give me problems

I'm hoping all this cold weather will bring a lovely, long spell of warm bright weather SOON!

Much Love,

Sue xxx

[sarahstevenson]

Thank you Sue - how do you muscle test yourself ? I have had this done in the past by a kinesiologist who was in training - at the time I was too poorly to benefit but maybe now I could think again. Vega testing has been a good indicator for me but I cant carry the machine and a homeopath around.

"Good diet" does help me noticeably although it bemuses my poor meat bread pots man husband especially when I take out more salad leaves etc in this COLD weather. I have discovered a seedy man on the local market who imports yummy salted / smoked seeds etc - seem to be a good addition. Salt does seem to help with adrenal issues.

Have had some horrid shakes, visual disturbance, overheating etc this morning - I was trying to valet the car a mini - so we can fit in it to go coast path walking in about 10 days ( how stupid am I?) THESE were worse symptoms than I've had since I dropped T4.

I wobbled back indoors to do temp tests and blood pressure etc to find pressures average to high for me - pulse very high 108 and temp only 36.4. I was due a T3 dose half an hour later.

The only change has been THE DENTIST and his horrid something with a long name which he used to deaden a dying nerve yesterday - without my fully understanding what he had proposed ! I was feeling too faint at the time even lying down to say more than don't use sulphonamides as I'm very allergic to them. Am now dreading next weeks appt to finish the tooth off pre my holiday. Need to check this out on this site I know there was a reference to sulphonamides in dentistry recently.

Sunny spells - izzy wizzy - have seen lots of birds this am on the bird table - super

THANK YOU AGAIN !

Sarah X