A little too much T3?

[ThyroidCurious]

Hi all

Just got my latest results back from Medichecks, blood drawn at 9:15am (later than I would like, but 1st appt at local hospital, as I hate having to stab my fingers). I take 100mcg of T4 first thing and 12.5mcg of T3 twice a day (first thing and at bedtime). I was diagnosed with Hashis in 2014, I think and I had very high antibodies at that time, and was really tired all the time.

Free T3 X 6.99 pmol/L (Range: 3.1 - 6.8)

Free Thyroxine 16.1 pmol/L (Range: 12 - 22)

TSH X 0.02 mU/L (Range: 0.27 - 4.2)

Ferritin 86.8 ug/L (Range: 13 - 150)

Folate - Serum 11.57 ug/L (Range: > 3.89)

Vitamin B12 - Active 88.9 pmol/L (Range: 37.5 - 150)

Vitamin D 58 nmol/L (Range: 50 - 200) 50 - 75 Adequate

Antibodies low in range.

Things that stand out to me are T3 and Vit D.

T3 is just over range (12.5mcg of T3 taken at 11:30pm, blood drawn at 9:15am may account for that). Also, my blood pressure is high (around 135/95) I've been wondering if this is due to high T3. To be fair, it was high last year before I started taking T3. The GP gave me 3 months to lose some weight, I haven't succeeded at this, was hoping the T3 would help me lose weight. I am now back in their sights again, taking readings every day, and I expect I will be prescribed drugs for the high blood pressure.

Vit D is down again. It was 26 last Feb and the GP prescribed very large doses. It crept up to 77 in October, which is when it was last tested. I have Vit D on the dining table, but haven't been taking it with every meal. I will do so now.

The GP will notice low TSH, as they did their own draw as well this week. It has been below range 3 times out of 6 since Oct 2018, and only just in range the other times. They recently reduced my Levo from 125 to 100 mcg, I wasn't bothered as I had T3, but I think they may want to reduce the Levo again. The T4 is now low in range, so I'm not keen on a reduction. I think I am still finding the balance.

When I previously posted I was recommended to take a B complex, which I will now that I have had the test done, as I would have had to stop it before the test (Biotin).

I am not gluten or diary-free. I eat mostly fish/ meat and vegetables, with some rice/ quinoa/ beans. I try to avoid processed foods, cheese is a weakness.

I feel happy that I've been able to try T3, but I still struggle with the weight, and I have a new job, which is stressing me, and my anxiety and blood pressure are a concern.

That's a lot of questions. I really appreciate your thoughts. Thank you for being there!

[GlowCoach Administrator]

Free T4 (fT4) 16.1 pmol/L (12 - 22) 41.0%

Free T3 (fT3) 6.99 pmol/L (3.1 - 6.8) 105.1%

In combination with T4, 25mcgs T3 is a fairly high dose. You could maybe negotiate to drop T3 by 6.25mcgs?

Vitamin D should be around 100 - 150. Buy one that includes vit K2 to help it go to your bones. Some are available in oil or you can take it with an oily meal for better absorption. Use this calculator to work out how much to take to get your level to 100-150. If you stop taking it your level will drop so keep going once you get to a good level. wildatlantichealth.com/vita...

Starting the B complex would be good.

High blood pressure can be just one of those things, genetic even so follow your GP's advice for that.

[greygoose]

But, the most important question is: how do you feel? If you feel good then the FT3 is so slightly over-range it's not worth bothering about. Some people just need their FT3 slightly over-range to feel good. Besides, ranges are only a rough guide, not cast-iron barriers that you mustn't cross.

TSH is going to be low if you take T3, there's not two ways about that. And with a dose of 25 mcg, it's not surprising it's suppressed. But, it doesn't matter. It's suppressed because you don't need it anymore. Thyroid Stimulating Hormone: what is it supposed to stimulate if you are taking all that exogenous hormone? Your thyroid won't be working anymore, not even a little bit.

[ThyroidCurious in reply to greygoose]

Love it! I'm feeling better than a year ago. So I think it's progress. I just need to keep on it. Thanks for all the help!

[greygoose in reply to ThyroidCurious]

You're welcome.

[radd]

ThyroidCurious,

If last dose of T3 was taken roughly 10 hours before blood draw that is a good gauge of average levels, with peaks much higher 2-3 hours directly after taking it. Therefore, your over range T3 levels are too high.  

I would be reducing the T3 meds and not the Levo if this were me.  Many of us only need 5 - 10mcg T3 just to kick better conversion of the T4 into play. 

Also optimising nutrients which you are aware of should optimise efficacy of your thyroid meds, meaning T3 conversion could improve anyway and you definitely don’t want T3 levels going any higher. 

Many of us have to supplement certain vits ongoing to prevent levels dropping and Vit D is a common one. 

[waveylines]

Hey well done you. Your Ft3 is fractionally over. Not much. Do you have any hyper symptoms eg sweating, loose strools, temp over range?If not you may choose to leave well alone & see what happens next time you test. Ft3 goes up and down though out the day. Therefore ft3 test can only be an indicator. It's not like ft4 which changes very slowly over weeks.

I'd work on your b12 and your vit D. Both are low and symptoms can leave you feeling tired. If it were me I would take a good B Complex like Thorne basic but I'd also would buy a good b12 hydroxacolabamin as well.....like Jarrows or the Better than B12 spray. You may only need the b12 tablets/spray to boost you up.

As a check before doing this ask your GP to check your Intrinsic Factor... (blood test) . This is to check for PA and needs to be done before supplementation. I should add that the Intrinsic Factor is a blood test which only picks up around 50% of PA. It maybe you have low b12 as that is common with Hypothyroidism but it's best to check.

[ThyroidCurious in reply to waveylines]

Hi waveylines

Thank you! I don't have any sweating, loose stools or high temperature. I am thinking of leaving T3 as it is till the next test, or possibly dropping down the night dose to 6.25mcg. I've noticed my body gets hot when I eat or drink a hot drink but that's been over the past few years. Very interesting ideas on pernicious anaemia, I had not heard that before. Thank you.

[waveylines in reply to ThyroidCurious]

Awww well see how u go. Am not suggesting you have PA but it's good to get checked because of you lower B12 which is likely thyroid related. I say this because I ended up on b12 jabs even though my Intrinsic Factor was negative twice.

[Marymary7]

After some research and recommendation from a GP in the family that I have beetroot juice which helps lower blood pressure. It’s just in a carton off the shelf, beetroot and apple juice. It definitely seemed to work for me.

[waveylines in reply to Marymary7]

I didn't know that Mary. Thank u!

[ThyroidCurious in reply to Marymary7]

I love beetroot juice! I will make a note to get some in. Does it work for cooked beetroot too? As I love beetroot soup too - there is some fresh beetroot in the fridge right now. Also I could add chopped beetroot to salad - the only form of beetroot I don't like is pickled...

[Marymary7 in reply to ThyroidCurious]

I presume it will all help in any form. I like beetroot and cheese sarnies too😂

[McPammy]

T3 is only just over range but that’s 10hrs after you took your last dose. If you’d had the blood draw say 2hrs after your last dose you’d see your T3 would be way over range therefore your TSH suppressed. TSH responds when your T4 or T3 levels go too high on a regular basis. TSH is shouting reduce T3 here. T4 looks ok. Best place to be is a TSH around 1.00 and mid range T3 and T4 so your levels don’t go over when you take your meds. That’s how a healthy persons thyroid levels work. Maybe the reason you are not losing weight as your reverse T3 will be kicking in. I’ve lost over 4st but I only did when my levels were ‘adequately’ supplied not flooded. Most importantly though I feel my best when my TSH is around 1.00. I’d reduce my T3 intake if I was you. I only need 5mcg twice a day 8hrs apart. 7am and 3pm. I find a bedtime dose knocks me out.

[ThyroidCurious in reply to McPammy]

Thanks McPammy, interesting that you take the T3 twice in the day. I could definitely give that a go. I don't want to "flood" myself with T3, but I guess I have been pushing to top of range since October. 3pm is difficult as I never know where I'll be, but I ca set an alarm. I'll let you all know how it goes!

[Beau55 in reply to McPammy]

TSH is bound to be supressed on any T3 containing medications and is therefore redundant in determining a dose. It would be nearly impossible for me to keep my TSH at one on NDT without being severely unwell.

Over course the T3 would have been over range two hours after testing, the tests are designed for healthy people (if that) and should just be used as a guide when dosing T3. When using T3 it’s best to dose by symptoms for this reason.

ThyroidCurious - if you have noticed improvement then just try a slight reduction or leave alone to see how it pans out and don’t forget to check cortisol as it could be why you aren’t feeling well yet.

[Hidden in reply to Beau55]

ThyroidCurious I second Beau. Sometimes T3 levels can be high, but not actually hitting their target because cortisol remains low. Cortisol often needs to be optimal for thyroid hormones to work.

[McPammy in reply to Beau55]

I guess we are all different as this site and people discuss their experiences and levels on here. I’m just speaking from my own experiences on levothyroxine and liothyronine. I was prescribed to take T3 5mcg twice a day 8hrs apart and my normal levothyroxine wasn’t reduced as it wasn’t above range. For myself this dose worked perfectly really. Problem I have is if my TSH goes suppressed or similarly my levels go over range I feel awful. So it’s in my personal interest to keep my levels adequately mediated not over medicated. It works for me and I feel extremely well from a place prior to adding T3 where I couldn’t walk. Now I walk briskly every day at least 5 miles sometimes 10+ miles a day. I’ve never felt so fit and well for many years.

[Shannon_Dunlap]

Too much med can cause weight gain as well (little discussed fact). You are way too high on T3. Optimal VD is 80 for hashimotos sufferers. I have gone through what you are, and ibstopped taking both meds for two days. I let my body calm DOWN. Then I added back Half does t4 and t3. Yes, i know I shouldnt self-diagnose, but after 17 years of feeling like dog crap and getting no real help, im going to experiment. My results: I have lost four pounds of WATER weight. My legs, ankles , and face are not swollen. I sleep through the night. My head is clear. I almost remember what it was like to be ME. I dont care what my numbers are for thyroid tests. I going to go by how i feel. All those meds made me feel like a hollow shell of a person.

[ThyroidCurious in reply to Shannon_Dunlap]

Thank you Shannon_Dunlap, I think I will pull back a little, I'm not sure about stopping for a couple of days. I did stop entirely once when I was on T4 only, felt amazing for a few days then had a major slump. But I have been taking my Vit D more conscientiously and will also start with B12. Thanks again!

[Gustie88 in reply to ThyroidCurious]

High T3 can cause increased blood sugar (via hepatic gluconeogenesis) and therefore can lead to insulin resistance. I gained lots of weight, both fat and fluid retention, on T3.

[ThyroidCurious in reply to Gustie88]

I'll proceed with caution from here...

[Soof007 in reply to Gustie88]

hey Gustie, did you stop taking T3? I’d love to know cause i also gain weight from t3

[Gustie88 in reply to Soof007]

Hi Soof-

Yes, I stopped T3 for now. Disappointing because it helps with some things, but makes other things worse. I have fairly low adrenal function so that factors in for sure.

[waveylines in reply to ThyroidCurious]

It's all about uptake in the cells. You can have as much as you like in the blood but if it isn't being utilised in the cells u will feel terrible. Also everyone is different.... Their optimum sweet point where they feel best will be different for each of us. Some people do need their thyroid levels higher, others don't. That's why I think it's inaccurate to go on blood tests alone. I highly recommend keeping a log of signs symptoms, temp pulse taken first thing plus thyroid meds & vits taken alongside any blood tests. It's gives a more whole picture & helps to spot trends for the individual.

[arTistapple]

My BP has been my first actual symptom they paid any attention to. Even my having a heart attack rattled no cages. This was way before so-called high blood pressure. The heart attack was virtually ignored and thyroid never mentioned then. It’s quite clear now with hindsight that the thyroid was the issue. My BP is now virtually the same as yours (although I take Amlodipine). They always complain about it when I go for my annual blood tests but Lo and Behold after a particular problem with T3 and a 24 hour ambulatory check, my BP is somehow FINE and not an issue. It’s virtually counter intuitive. It’s my understanding they do not have a clue - unless one something catches their eye. It’s always something on its own. Never seen as part of a particular picture. Their understanding of thyroid issues is very dangerously NIL. I do wonder now how other non thyroid patients get on as GP knowledge seems to be so superficial. I have noticed that with hypothyroid patients, diastolic is often the ‘out of place’ measure. My sense is it’s something to do with the sheer effort of the heart working without suitable hormone levels. I have no proof of this just watching my own and noticing BPs when people post. Honestly by all means keep an eye on it but do not over worry about it.