I'd really appreciate some advice on my latest test results below. Since my last post a few months back I've started taking Metavive II - one in the morning and one at lunchtime. I've been on a pretty strict PK diet, B12 by SI, magnesium by SI, eating liver min once a week, quit working for a while. Many better days but still worn out.
My TSH has come right down to 1.01 (from 4.72) but my T4 has also reduced from 13.9 to 12, whilst my T3 has increased marginally from 3.7 to 4. My ferritin is still rock bottom at 18.9. My CRP HS has gone up from 1.23 to 2.83. I'm thinking of adding in a third Metavive II or even changing to something else to see if I can get my T3 and T4 further up the range (anyone had better results switching away from Metavive?). Also not sure what to do next re ferritin and CRP results...
I've been reading about Ray Peat research on diet - anyone had good results with that protocol?
Thanks! Yes think upping my dose will be the next move. I've been eating liver at least weekly but it doesn't seem to have had much effect so far on ferritin levels.
I had serum iron of 19 (9-30); serum transferrin 2.98 (1.80-3.82) and transferrin saturation index of 25% (15-50).....that was back in mid June via the GP (or should I say paramedic as beginning to doubt there are any actual GPs at my GP surgery) but as they didn't even know what heme iron was and said my thyroid was all normal I decided that relying on any GP was foolish at best.
I’ve edited and deleted chunks. Way too long and confusing
Hi feistyone (you’re going need to be!)
I say this because some doctors barely understand how to prescribe thyroid replacement, so Metavive is really going to cause confusion but no matter, it’s your choice and used properly it will raise frees and lower TSH, perhaps by a lot. Have to ask though, why not levo, it can be so much easier plus you’ll know how well you convert
As you’ll know, Metavive ll is porcine. Your dose is 2/day, which is the equivalent of Metavive l x 4, also porcine. This is a low dose, for you at least, and your low frees strongly suggest a raise but have you ever taken levo and if so, do you know how well you convert? As you progress, knowing will help you decide whether you need to add bovine Metavive or just stay on porcine but for the moment, if it were me I’d just keep increasing the porcine until I began to feel better
You’re aware folate and ferritin need addressing to help your choice of thyroid replacement work more efficiently, so it’s good that you’re eating liver to try to increase ferritin but perhaps no more than once/wk because of the high vitamin A content, especially in pig liver. Calf liver is one of the lowest, if not the lowest so you may be able to get away with two portions a week of that but there are plenty of iron-rich foods you can incorporate which will bring variation and micro-nutrients to your diet, as well as help raise ferritin and folate
I copy pasted a study on liver and vit A but it hasn’t worked
When increasing dosage I’ve tried all sorts of intervals, ranging from weekly (too fast) to every six weeks (too slow). However, I found it depends on how close to optimal I am. When my frees were low, raising by one lowest dose capsule every fortnight was about right but as I got closer to optimal I needed to take it much slower because I’d quickly feel overmedicated
To summarise, this is how I was advised by Dr Peatfield
Increase by only one Metavive l
If after a fortnight all is well increase by another Metavive l. Your dose is now Metavive l x 6 (Metavive ll x 3)
Continue on this dose for a minimum of six weeks before raising again or testing
I would recommend testing though because it’s really useful to have a record of how everything is working. Do your lab numbers support how you feel and vice-versa? What’s your TSH doing?
TSH is something I don’t concern myself with too much but it’s useful knowing what it’s doing because some GPs get uneasy when it gets low. My GP is fine since I accepted responsibility for mine being suppressed
Keeping notes may seem like a bother but unbelievable useful in the future should things go awry or not to plan or how you’d hoped and if you have a brain that just doesn’t work that well at the moment, it helps so much with any confusion
In time, and it does take time, you’ll be able to work out whether you need to introduce some bovine Metavive for the higher T4 composition, if you feel your FT4 is not enough for you, which it can be on Metavive l and ll because it has a higher T3 composition. Having more T3 working for you will naturally mean that some of your T4, surplus to requirements. However, some of us, including me, need higher levels of FT4 to feel our best. I don’t know why. Would be good to know, if anyone wants to share the answer
You won’t know any of this though until you start experimenting and it’s definitely too early to be chopping and changing types
That looks to be a very helpful reply, obviously based on a lot of personal experience. Do you ever worry that this supplement may not be obtainable forever?
I don’t worry because it’s out of my control but I’d hate it to happen
About 4 years ago, certain types were out of stock for a short while, which was inconvenient but I’m assured all has been corrected and that it’s unlikely to happen again for the foreseeable future but of course it could happen again and no doubt will
Thanks so much Noelnoel for your comprehensive response. This has really helped clarify my thinking on what I should do next.
Why not levo? To be honest I have struggled to find a supportive NHS GP and didn't have the energy for that sort of battle, when faced with the 'your thyroid results are all in the normal range'. The paramedic who has never even examined me face to face was more interested in trying to see if he could find any drugs to palm off on me for diabetes or cholesterol...which he now knows never to try again. So, also being an impatient risk taker, and desperate to start feeling semi-human again I went down the metavive route. I did a trial of levo some years ago and as I recall I was a poor converter but couldn't get T3 and ended up coming off levo and going down the NDT route. Will need to dig out my records to see if I can work out my conversion rate.
I ended up tailing off the Metavive altogether as I thought I was overmedicated...in hindsight this was a very bad move but it was only over time that things started to deteriorate and I didn't really relate this to coming off the thyroid. It seems so obvious now but as usual I buried myself in work and probably ignored a lot of the tell tale signs for too long.
I will stick with the Metavive for now. I've added 1x Metavive I today and will monitor and potentially add another in 2 weeks and go from there. Meantime I'll keep going on the liver front and see if I can add in some other sources. Not sure what's going on with the CRP result so will do some further investigation on that front... I did have a slightly abnormal eGFR result in July which probably needs retesting.
What time have you decided on for taking the extra one? Worth bearing in mind that you can take all at once/split/am/pm but probably best to take the bulk of the dose earlier in the day as opposed to bedtime🥱😵💫😵💫
I’ve always found two doses gentler that one
CRP remains within normal limits but high. Obviously monitor it but beyond that I can’t comment. Can’t comment on eGFR either. Sorry
Good point re planning timings. I have been taking one Metavive II on waking and the second at lunchtime. Today I then took the additional Metavive I at around 2pm (didn’t want to wait a second longer!) but I will probably take the additional MI with the MII on waking tomorrow.
I will focus on addressing thyroid and ferritin over the coming weeks and retest again in about 6-8 weeks and see what the CRP etc are doing at that point.
Thanks again for your advice. So great to have this resource and advice from others who have similar lived experiences 😊
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