Is it normal to feel anxious when adding Armour?

[deniseross]

I just started taking an extra 1/4 grain of Armour. I feel a bit edgy and anxious. Is this typical for an adjustment period? My previous dose was 88mcg Synthroid and 1/4 grain Armour. Adding 1/4 grain because my most recent lab results were this:

August 9, 2022

TSH - 4.12 mIU/L …Range: .4-4.50 mIU/L

T3, Free - 2.5 pg/mL … Range: 2.3-4.2 pg/mL

T4, Free - 1.2 ng/dL…Range 0.8-1.8 ng/dL

T3 Reverse - 19 ng/dl …Range: 8-25 ng/dl

Cortisol, Free, Urine - 63.1 … Range: 4.0-50 mcg/24h

Ferritin - 30 ng/mL …range: 16-233

Zinc:- 67 mcg/dl…Range: 60-130

Vit B12 - 612 pg/ml … Range: 200-1100

Estradiol: 38 pg/mL…Range: 19-357

FSH- 63.1

Dhea- 87 range 5-167

Testosterone, Total, MS - 32…Range: 2-45 ng/dl

Thank you.

More context and history if it matters:

April 1, 2022

TSH- 1.41

T3, Free - 2.5

T4, Free - 1.2

I do not have Hashimotos. Antibodies are always negative. Hypothyroidism developed postpartum 17 years ago most likely as postpartum thyroiditis.

I have been taking and increasing Estradiol and Progesterone recently and my doctor thinks this may be why my thyroid levels have changed.

I know that my numbers were not good back in April. My doctor was not concerned and we were working on raising Estradiol so she didn’t want to change thyroid dosage yet. I may need to find another doctor who wants higher T3 and T4 but for now she’s been the best so far.

She’s looking at Cushings and Celiac as possible issues too. Endoscopy shows evidence of celiac but blood and stool tests don’t, possibly because I haven’t gotten enough gluten back in my diet. I try but it’s hard because it feels bad.

I have a lot of other labs but they are not in an easy format to transfer. My zinc and ferritin were low last year and I’ve been raising them slowly. Omegas too.

[SlowDragon Administrator]

20% of Hashimoto's patients never have raised antibodies

Have you had ultrasound scan of thyroid?

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Paul Robson on atrophied thyroid - especially if no TPO antibodies

paulrobinsonthyroid.com/cou...

The fact you’re gluten intolerant strongly suggests this is autoimmune

If gluten intolerant and eating gluten then thyroid results will get worse until strictly gluten free again

Likely to take month or two for gut to recover from gluten

Hashimoto's affects the gut and leads to low stomach acid and then low vitamin levels

Low vitamin levels affect Thyroid hormone working

Poor gut function can lead leaky gut (literally holes in gut wall) this can cause food intolerances. Most common by far is gluten. Dairy is second most common.

According to Izabella Wentz the Thyroid Pharmacist approx 5% with Hashimoto's are coeliac, but over 80% find gluten free diet helps, sometimes significantly. Either due to direct gluten intolerance (no test available) or due to leaky gut and gluten causing molecular mimicry (see Amy Myers link)

chriskresser.com/the-gluten...

amymyersmd.com/2018/04/3-re...

thyroidpharmacist.com/artic...

drknews.com/changing-your-d...

Non Coeliac Gluten sensitivity (NCGS) and autoimmune disease

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/296...

The predominance of Hashimoto thyroiditis represents an interesting finding, since it has been indirectly confirmed by an Italian study, showing that autoimmune thyroid disease is a risk factor for the evolution towards NCGS in a group of patients with minimal duodenal inflammation. On these bases, an autoimmune stigma in NCGS is strongly supported

nuclmed.gr/wp/wp-content/up...

In summary, whereas it is not yet clear whether a gluten free diet can prevent autoimmune diseases, it is worth mentioning that HT patients with or without CD benefit from a diet low in gluten as far as the progression and the potential disease complications are concerned

restartmed.com/hashimotos-g...

Despite the fact that 5-10% of patients have Celiac disease, in my experience and in the experience of many other physicians, at least 80% + of patients with Hashimoto's who go gluten-free notice a reduction in their symptoms almost immediately.

Ferritin level is terrible

No vitamin D or folate results?

[deniseross in reply to SlowDragon]

In april my Folate was 20.2 ng/ml. I’d been taking 400 -800 mcg of methyl folate.

Last Vitamin D test was 45 ng/ml in November. Don’t know why it’s been so long! That’s with supplements.

Oh, my, SlowDragon…I’m a mess, yeah? I ate a peanut butter and jelly sandwich on whole wheat bread this morning and today is not nice. This is my last attempt to eat enough gluten to get an accurate celiac test.

Your words are bringing tears to my eyes. Because what your are saying validates why I feel the way I do. Because this seems insurmountable when I am overwhelmed with synptoms and it is nearly impossible to find a doctor who thinks this way. I’m looking at the resources you listed and feeling hopeful because there are doctors here in my area on Dr. Wentz’s list. So thank you for that.

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to deniseross]

Vitamin D test was 45 ng/ml in November

That’s a good level.

Units are ng/mL so you’re not in U.K.

45ng/mL = over 112nmol in U.K. units

endmemo.com/medical/unitcon...

[deniseross in reply to SlowDragon]

I've been working on those Vitamin D levels for over 5 years. They are finally getting to a decent place.

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to deniseross]

Why are you bothering to try to get a positive coeliac test

You know you need to be strictly gluten free already

More likely to be gluten intolerant than coeliac

[deniseross in reply to SlowDragon]

I am going for a celiac diagnosis because...

1. A diagnosis of celiac disease is just easier to work with. Mainstream doctors understand and believe it . They roll their eyes at gluten intolerance.

2. It's hard to be gluten-free. I am more likely to adhere to a restricted diet with a clear diagnosis.

3. My stomach doesn't hurt when I eat gluten. I have no real clear and obvious reactions to deter me. The signs and symptoms are gradual, varied, ghostlike. Maybe my mood worsens... or I feel arthritic...or I have cramps that could be hormonal...etc. Sometimes it just feel like it's all in my head, or there's something else it could be blamed on like low thyroid, perimenopause, post-Covid, aging, mental health issues, etc.

Also, I really just thought I didn't have Hashimoto's all this time (18 years now). I was told it was postpartum thyroiditis and that my antibodies were negative so that was that. The only reason I was avoiding gluten and dairy for the last year was because I read that it could help with the PMDD symptoms I was having in late perimenopause. I didn't even realize that it could be affecting my thyroid so much.

[pennyannie]

Hello Deniseross and welcome to the forum :

Your doctor needs to first be looking at your core strength vitamins and minerals especially those of ferritin, folate, B12 and vitamin D as these need to be up and maintained at optimal levels to support your body and any option of thyroid hormone medication you choose to take.

i fell into this forum when researching why my ferritin level was so low and everywhere I read said that ferritin needs to be at least over 70 for any thyroid hormone replacement to work well in supporting the body to be able to convert the T4 into T3.

It's a slow build but so worth while - I'm now 6 years later and 4 years into taking an alternative brand of NDT.

At least you are on full spectrum thyroid hormone replacement but first and foremost you must build up your vitamins and minerals otherwise you'll not not be able to fully restore your health and well being.

[deniseross in reply to pennyannie]

Hi Pennyannie,

Thanks for the welcome. Cute name, is it a poker reference?

This is my second time posting; I posted many months ago and have been trying to follow the advice I got back then. It's taken a while to implement most of the instructions I was given.

I was the one who requested my naturopath look at nutrients last year on the recommendation of the good folks here. I have had a very hard time finding doctors that are thorough. I finally found one who tests a lot of nutrients, I am suprised she missed folate and Vit D this last round.

All along, I am piecing everything together myself with info from this group, my HRT group, PMDD, groups, etc. It's nuts. Most doctors just act like I am a bother with all of my annoying requests for testing, etc.

Luckily, years ago I read Mary Shomon's books and learned about natural thyroid meds. I found a naturopath years ago who was willing to put me on Nature-throid and a Synthroid mix at my request. I had figured out what I needed, no one else could. Was not happy when Naturethroid shortage occurred and switched to Armour. It's ok but not as good. Any changes are always a big adjustment.

Got my ferritin up from 16 to 30 over the last nine months. It's slow but I think it's helping. Good to know that you've had success with it. I just don't know why my nutrients are so low. I think slowdragon's advice that gluten intolerance is behind it all may be the answer.

[pennyannie in reply to deniseross]

Oh, I didn't look back and see you had help previously :

No, it's my two first names rolled into one ??

It took me over a year to build up my ferritin from 22 to over 70 and as I did symptoms were relieved so knew I was going in the right direction.

I still need to maintain optimal levels with supplementation :

Yes, leaky gut is common - you may find the research of Dr Izabella Wentz of interest :

originalText

[deniseross in reply to pennyannie]

Thank you, Dr. Wentz looks interesting. There is so much to read and sift through. I did a lot of reading on it all years ago when symptoms got bad but a lot of new information has come to light lately.

I'm baffled as to how I am going to get that ferritin up higher. It's such a slow climb. I just want to take a lot of iron but I'm guessing that is not the greatest plan.

[pennyannie in reply to deniseross]

Well there are many supplements for ferritin and your choice maybe decided upon by which ones you can tolerate.

I had to go for an iron glycinate, sometimes branded as ' gentle iron ' as a ferrous sulfate/fumarate upset my stomach :

I also ate liver each week and took liquid iron : so likely overdosed a bit :

Now I'm able to keep topped up with a chicken liver pate I make myself :

and follow the rules of around 200 grams a week now.

Your nutrients are low because you are not metabolising your food well and your body not able to extract the essential core strength vitamins and minerals through your food.

Added to that the soil is likely not as nutrient rich as it once was so finding nutritious rich food harder to come by naturally.

[deniseross in reply to pennyannie]

"Your nutrients are low because you are not metabolising your food well and your body not able to extract the essential core strength vitamins and minerals through your food."

True. I have been hearing this for years and years and I know it is true but for some reason I am very dense about accepting it and responding appropriately. I do eat quite a bit of meat and leafy greens so really thought I was safe. But the part about not absorbing well is just overwhelming to me somehow and I end up having some denial about it.

I am taking a Gentle Iron and a liquid Iron (Gaia). I take Vitamin C with them. I think I can handle more. My stomach doesn't seem to get upset from any of them so far.

I am so glad you are helping me with this. I joined a Facebook group called "The Iron Protocol" too but it is really a TON of info and overwhelms me. Simple hints are helpful. From all you say I think I am on the right track with supplementation and just need to go back to my dairy-free, gluten-free way. Stopping grains altogether sounds really hard. I love oatmeal in the morning, *sigh*.

[pennyannie in reply to deniseross]

Hve you considered dropping the T4 and taking NDT only :

Currently you are taking two different forms of thyroid hormone replacement and I don't see the point as this simply complicates reading results, or knowing which oe suits you best.

Have you tried NDT only as the ratio of T3 and T4 in each grain is tolerated well by many thousands of people and NDT is a stand alone thyroid hormone replacement option.

[deniseross in reply to pennyannie]

I did for a long time and I think what happened is at some point my T3 got too high and my T4 was normal. Tried different configurations over the years and it seems I’ve just needed less and less T3 so this has been a good way to do it.