Supplements and levothyroxine

[Decant]

Hi,

After recent bloods my T4 was increased from 112.5mcg to 150mcg T4. I've not included results as I've done that before and it's not what I'd like help on. My next blood tests are on 25th July (8 weeks after increase). It has been recommended on this site that I also supplement Vit D3 as it was low and also B-complex for low Folate. That's cool.

I also would like to try and naturally boost my bottom of range testosterone (male 55) AND reduce muscle cramps (mostly when swimming but sometimes during sleep). Improving sleep duration and quality would be good too.

So, I've bought a collection of supplements and I now need to put them together into a daily protocol that's ideally simple. I currently take my T4 at bedtime away from food, perhaps it could move to waking (as before) so I can take Magnesium quality for it's sleep benefits.

I have bought: -

Multiple sources recommend Vit D3, the "vitamin D protocol" recommends taking K2 and Magnesium also: -

* Vitamin D3 gels, 4000IU. Best taken with fat-bearing meal. I'm happy to take 8000IU/day

* Vit K2, 100mcg. Probably take 200mcg/day for best effect. Also with fat bearing meal

* Magnesium, 120mg. Probably take 240mg/day, 1 with breakfast, 1 at bedtime ideally

Testosterone boosting (I'd like to avoid Testosterone Replacement Therapy (TRT) if possible): -

* Zinc (15mg) + Copper (1mg)

* Boron glycinate (10mg)

Thyroid

* Thorne Basic B Complex

I think I could do the following

1) Waking/breakfast: Zinc&Copper, Boron, B complex, Vit D3, K2, Magnesium

2) Bedtime: T4, with a Magnesium 120mg for sleep quality

That's probably too simplistic though as for example D3 and K2 are both fat soluble and K2 won't be absorbed so well. Vit D protocol recommends D3 at breakfast, K2 at dinner time

I'd like to avoid a complex protocol and keep it to waking, breakfast and bedtime as I don't really want to be a walking pill bottle! I could get into the habit dinner supplements I suppose!

I know it's a lot to ask, but do you have any recommendations for a good daily protocol?

Many thanks!

[SeasideSusie Remembering]

Decant

2) Bedtime: T4, with a Magnesium 120mg for sleep quality

Magnesium should be 4 hours away from thyroid meds so you need to rethink this one.

That's probably too simplistic though as for example D3 and K2 are both fat soluble and K2 won't be absorbed so well. Vit D protocol recommends D3 at breakfast, K2 at dinner time

This depends on your D3 and K2 supplements.

If both are oil based, eg soft gels with olive (or another form of) oil you could take them together as both have their own oil for absorption.

If tablets or capsules which don't contain oil then if taken together they will compete for any fat to be absorbed, so in this case they should be taken at different times of the day with some dietary fat.

[Decant in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thank you SeasideSusie . The D3 is in sunflower oil. I'd not considered that's why it came in oil - makes sense! Unfortunately the K2 is in pill form but I could take it with breakfast alongside the oil-based D3.

No Mg with T4 at bedtime is awkward. I'll stick to T4 only as my sleep is ok.

Thank you.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Decant]

Unfortunately the K2 is in pill form but I could take it with breakfast alongside the oil-based D3.

What do you have for breakfast?

What about taking the evening magnesium with your evening meal then Levo at bedtime.

[Decant in reply to SeasideSusie]

I usually have rolled porridge oats with fruit and oat milk, or fruit and fibre (again oat milk), with porridge. And coffee with oat milk. Bacon butties on a Friday in a men's group I run.

I don't really want to take pills with my evening meal as I am not always eating at home, and taking more pills is also something I could easily forget to do. I could change though. Would the magnesium wear out by bedtime?

I may start taking T3 depending upon conversion results in next tests. Another variable!

Thank you again!

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Decant]

So how much fat is in your breakfast? If not enough fat for the K2 to be absorbed it will pinch some from the D3 supplement and there wont be enough for both of them to be absorbed. This is why it's often suggested to take them at different times of the day.

You could take your D3 with breakfast no problem, but you'd need something like a full fat yogurt, chunk of cheese, toast with butter, etc, for the K2.

[Hidden]

I initially started taking different things at different times but quickly got overwhelmed and forget to take things and got frustrated.

I now take:

B complex

B12

Vit D

K2

Magnesium

Selenium

Starflower oil

And a probiotoc all at the same time in the morning.

I appreciate that some things inhibit absorption of other things but I check my levels regularly and adjust my doses, if necessary, based on those results.

Personally, I found it so much easier to do this way and also ensures I do actually take my supplements each day!

If I need an iron supplement I take that separately in the afternoon.

[Decant in reply to Hidden]

Thank you, I want a simple protocol too, so will keep to taking everything with breakfast and T4 at bedtime (no Magnesium as per SeasideSusie reply). I too intend to test regularly. I'd introduce one at a time if I was being scientific about it!

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Decant]

I'd introduce one at a time if I was being scientific about it!

You really should only introduce one at a time, if all OK after 2 weeks then introduce the next one. After another 2 weeks if all OK introduce the next one, etc. The reason for this is because if you have any adverse reaction you will know what caused it.

If you start taking all of them at once and you have an adverse reaction you wont know what caused it and will need to go back to square one and introduce one at a time and look out for any reaction.

[Decant in reply to SeasideSusie]

Sigh.

I've already started D3+k2 (though in combined pill form) and magnesium, so I'll take that as done.

Maybe I should start on the B complex next as that was previous advice from this group. I was intermittently taking B12 so I reckon that should be ok too.

Then the Boron. Then the Zinc and Copper, but maybe I need testing for that.

[greygoose]

* Zinc (15mg) + Copper (1mg)

Whilst it's true that zinc and copper need to be kept balanced, hypos usually have them very unbalanced: one is usually too high and the other two low. If you have low zinc and high copper, and you take both zinc and copper, you'll probably regret it. I speak from experience, here! If your copper is high, just take zinc. If your zinc is high, just take copper. BUT you need to get them tested first so you know which is which.

Also, if you take zinc, don't take it at the same time as the magnesium. The one will affect the absorption of the other.

[Decant in reply to greygoose]

Thank you, so much to test in 2 weeks, I'm not sure MediChecks do a single test for it all (thyroid, testosterone, vitamins, minerals)!

[greygoose in reply to Decant]

I really don't know anything about private testing. I live in France, and there's no such thing.

[Decant in reply to greygoose]

Is the French health service better at testing than ours? I only have 1 experience with the French system when a girl friend took me to see about athlete's foot. It seemed decent from that one minor experience, though I was a bit shocked (only 21 at the time) that there was a cost that needed to be claimed back.

[greygoose in reply to Decant]

Slightly better, yes. For the first test, when thyroid problems are first suspected, they do a full thyroid panel - TSH, FT4, FT3, TPOab, TgAB - no questions. But, after that, when you're on thyroid hormone replacement, they still insist that FT3 isn't necessary. And, to be fair, most GPs will admit they have no idea what T3 is! And they still think the TSH tells them all they need to know. So, the average French doctor is just as ignorant about thyroid as anywhere else. And whatever is wrong with you - thyroid or other things - doctors still don't listen. They make up their own little fiction and stick to it, no matter what you say. If you're interested, you can read about my thyroid journey in France on my profile.

As for the system for paying, yes, it does come as a shock at first. But, you get used to it, and eventually it seems quite normal. I think, in the end, it works out better than the NHS.

[Decant in reply to greygoose]

Wow, I've just read your bio, what a terrible time you've had of it! And what awful knowledge of the thyroid abounds in the world. It seems to be some black hole; we hear daily of gene therapy this, gut biome that, that we think the medical profession is all leading edge. Clearly they're not. Your story puts my own journey in real perspective - nothing at all as bad, not a tiny fraction. God bless

[greygoose in reply to Decant]

Thank you. Yes, that's absolutely right, where thyroid is concerned, ignorance abounds - willful ignorance, I would say.

[Brightness14]

I take four supplements directly after breakfast. Vit c etc. Vitamins d and K2 I take togetherafter tea at around 7pm after eating a piece of dark chocolate, I only take Vit d and K2 twice a week now as my levels are perfect then. My doctor will test my Vit D but like GG I live in France so no private testing for anything.