Supplements.

[Diyena]

I take D3, B12, vitC, ferritin, k2, b complex, but still I have bad pains and stiffness. Is it worth trying Zinc, magnesium and selenium? If so which ones and doses? Thanks in advance

[Diyena]

Sorry Ferrous fumerate not ferritin

[Hidden]

All good, but zinc is a trace mineral so should be taken in small quantities and not over long periods of time along with a small amount of copper added to avoid depletion. You can buy them together. There are probably loads of brands out there but I used FSC Sinc Picolinate with copper.

Selenium is needed by the thyroid to convert T4 to T3, I use Solgar 200mcg (L-selenomethionine). I take Natural Calm for mg, contains mg citrate, but there are many others (avoid oxide). All water soluble so unlikely to overdo on these two. Have you considered adding calcium?

[Diyena in reply to Hidden]

I do take a calcium when I remember

[humanbean in reply to Hidden]

I wouldn't add calcium without a blood test first to test for a deficiency. Taking vitamin D increases absorption of calcium from the diet, and we are usually told to take vitamin K2 to make that calcium go into our bones rather than line our arteries.

articles.mercola.com/sites/...

[Diyena in reply to humanbean]

I take k2, so I should not bother with the calcium on the odd occasion?

[humanbean in reply to Diyena]

I wouldn't. I would only take calcium if I knew I was deficient.

[Hidden in reply to humanbean]

I really don't want to be controversial on the subject of calcium, but my understanding is that it is magnesium that stops the deposition of calcium in the arteries. K2 helps to fix the calcium in the bones once it arrives and should as you say be taken with Vitamin D which enhances absorption. Calcium is the most abundant mineral in the body and absorption is not always guaranteed, age, disease and medications can interfere with uptake.

[greygoose in reply to Hidden]

Agreed that calcium is very important for many reasons, but taking calcium supplements is like swallowing rocks, and to be avoided if at all possible.

[Hidden in reply to greygoose]

Not entirely sure of your point - should we avoid taking calcium or just swallowing it in rock form?

[greygoose in reply to Hidden]

Sorry, is that a joke? Avoid taking calcium supplements, if you can, get your calcium from food.

[Hidden in reply to greygoose]

Apologies if it sounded like a joke, I genuinely didn't know exactly what you meant - sorry. All 60 minerals are 'rocks' so how would you know how much is in food it depends on the soil.

[Hidden in reply to greygoose]

Whilst we are on the subject of calcium perhaps you could explain to me why you think we should avoid taking calcium supplements - I really would like to know - goodness knows I have got many things wrong in the past. My take on calcium is that blood levels cannot be relied upon - the body will always maintain a level of calcium in the body (like many other serum levels such as Mg) and to do this it will take it from the bones if it is short.

[humanbean in reply to Hidden]

Is there any test for calcium that doesn't involve serum calcium levels though? How can someone find out whether they need calcium if the serum test is unreliable?

I'm very wary of calcium because I've read so often that too much (either supplemented or prescribed) can cause bones to be brittle rather than resilient.

My mother had severe osteoporosis, took everything her doctor prescribed (including calcium), and she ended up in a dreadful state.

I still feel that calcium is something people shouldn't take unless they know they are deficient. But I do think that modern medicine concentrates on calcium for bone health to the detriment of everything else e.g. magnesium, phosphorous, boron, manganese, selenium etc.

[Hidden in reply to humanbean]

Hi, I am not sure about tests for calcium other than serum, maybe bone density. If I find out I will let you know.

The parathyroid glands (in the thyroid) are involved in the regulation of calcium. If there is not enough calcium in the blood it sends a message to rob the bones in order to supply calcium to the heart, brain, blood vessels etc.

Calcium is the most abundant mineral in the body, apart from bones it is used to regulate hormones, in stomach acid secretion and blood pressure and more. HBP is directly related to lack of calcium and magnesium, the blood vessels constantly restrict and relax, it needs Ca to restrict and Mg to relax (hope I have that the right way round) when the vessels constrict but can't relax you get HBP.

Strangely, the levels of Ca in the blood are inversely related to how much calcium you need. If its high the parathyroid is overactive and you end up with a lot in the blood at the expense of your bones.

[greygoose in reply to Hidden]

Because of articles like this :

greenmedinfo.com/blog/takin...

and this :

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

I'm sorry, I really did think you were trying to be funny. Actually, it was quite funny! lol

[Hidden in reply to greygoose]

Thanks GG, I will have a read and come back to you tomorrow, just about to eat dinner and leap out to meet some friends. Meanwhile I have replied to Humanbean above.

No problems, its so easy to misinterpret the written word, been there done that.

Take care

[Hidden in reply to greygoose]

Morning GG. Had a read through the articles - where do I start - this could turn into a short story! GreenMedInfo - not sure this is very scientific - it was a clinical observational study - no bloods showing nutritional status, no information on duration or what the Ca supplements were. In addition he talks about "we are designed to get calcium from food" - surely we are designed to get everything from food. Also he refers to poor quality, inorganic supplements (what would they be?). Calcium is an inorganic mineral, the calcium found in milk is mostly calcium phosphate which is inorganic.

The biggest problem with calcium from what I can see is that it needs all its companions to stay in the right place, its not readily absorbable and acidity in the stomach needs to be on the low side. Medications can also affect absorption. Over 50's need at least 1200mg of Ca daily, but only about 1/3rd will end up being absorbed and that's with everything in place. I still stand by my view that if calcium is ending up in the wrong places in the body or is being robbed from the bones its because of calcium deficiency along with deficiencies in Mg, Vit D, K, Vit C, silica, boron, zinc, trace minerals and amino acids - there are probably others too. It makes no sense to me that the most abundant mineral in the body does not need to be supplemented - none of us think twice about supplementing Vit D, C, selenium or any of the others.

As for food, I just can't see how you would know how much Ca was in a pint of milk, or a chunk of cheese - all depends on the soil.

[Diyena in reply to Hidden]

Solgar Selenium 200 mcg Tablets, 100 Tabs 200 mcg amazon.co.uk/dp/B00020ICGC/...

This one?

[Hidden in reply to Diyena]

That's the one I use

[humanbean]

What brand/type/dosage are you taking of each supplement?

Perhaps you aren't taking enough. It's common, for example, for B12 to be sold as cyanocobalamin in doses of 50mcg. But for people who are low in B12 and who have poor absorption the most appropriate supplement is often methylcobalamin in doses of 1000mcg or 5000mcg per day.

(I'm not talking about people who need injections of B12 here, that is a different issue.)

Also, vitamin D is often sold in very low doses.

[Diyena in reply to humanbean]

I take high doses , I'm just not very good at remembering them daily. My b12 results were well over range ( over 1000!) and my D3 result was 79.

I take 5000 of each

[humanbean in reply to Diyena]

That's good news on the dose.

Perhaps you would benefit from buying a pill box to help remind you to take your pills every day. If you do, make sure it has plenty of room in each box, some of them are awfully small. At least then you'll have some idea how many pills you are taking per week, because you'll see all the ones you missed.

[sofluffy]

How much D are you taking? Maybe you're not taking enough?

Magnesium is usually for energy, I take it as well as selenium. Selenium I would say is a must for hypothyroid patients.

[greygoose]

Zinc was a clincher for me. Almost over night, l was able to stop the 4+ ibuprofen I'd been taking daily for the past ten years. The muscle pain just disappeared.

Someone said l should bevtaking copper with it, because they need to be balanced. But the copper made me feel bad, so l stopped it. In actual fact, your far more likely to be deficient in zinc than you are in copper, because you need such a tiny amount of copper. So, my advice would be not to start taking them both together. Start the zinc first, see how you feel on it, and then a week or so later, try the copper, and see how it goes. And listen to your body, it will tell you what it needs.

[Diyena in reply to greygoose]

What dose was it? Were you deficient?

[Diyena]

Blimey it's all so complicated!

[Diyena]

Which type of magnesium is best, malate? Is 600mg a suitable dose with 5000iu D3?

[Joyia]

Groan just when I thought I was helping myself by taking Vit D3 along with a magnesium supplement, there is yet another paper of dispute. I feel like throwing all my supplements away and taking pot luck with lady life.