Hi. All. What I am going to say is difficult and I am not sure I understand it myself, but I seem to have been taught a lesson in humility. I wont go into details but something happened that seemed to make me more aware of myself and my motives. It seems to stem from the idea that "I" can help someone. On the face of it we do help but, and this is difficult, is it US, ME that is helping? (I told you it was difficult to explain). Has anyone heard of' Hubris'? It is a kind of spiritual bossiness;
"I" can help you. Someone once said ' heaven forbid that "I" can help anyone'. When we try to help where does it come from? If we say ME, then that is hubris. Does anyone feel that the help comes through us rather than from us? This is not a 'religious' statement but an attempt to find an explanation as to how I feel. I know we can only speak from our experience and this is, of course, very useful. But when we reach out for help and it comes it seems to me that there is more to it than just giving advice. Oh, for goodness sake, I am waxing all philosophical, but does anyone know what I mean? Love. jonathan.
Like Daisy, I've read and reread and I think I've got the gist of what you are saying/ worrying about but it is possible that when you read my reply you'll think I haven't got it at all but here goes -
I do agree that it is very possible for self to get in the way and when that happens help (in whatever form it takes) becomes far more about ourselves than the person we are trying to help.However when this occurs I think of two things have come in to play. Either we are trying to blot out our own problems by immersing ourselves in someone elses, a disaster for all concerned or we have passed the point of helping someone and have (often inadvertently) cast ourselves in the role of saviour. We cannot save people and we certainly cannot save people from themselves. We can join them in their hole and if we go down that road we probably will but we cannot help them. (A difficult lesson to learn, especially when you set off with such good intentions - the road to hell and all that.)
So what is help? Where does it come from? I think help is more to do with coming along side people, being there. Advice, personal experience and offering practical guidence is part of that but the being there, seeing that someone is struggling and caring enough to let them know that they are not invisible, you can see them and you are there is invaluable. That, I think, is help coming through you - help by your presence not your actions.
I'm not sure if this has responded to your thoughts in the way that you were looking for but I can say this: I am fairly new to this site (I'd been wandering in from another forum for a while) but your posts were the reason I joined up. You make me laugh, you make me think and you offer thoughtful and caring support. Do not ever question that. The help you offer here, whether it is from you or through you, is needed and valued.
Hubris is more of an overbearing arrogance and extreme pride, and offering a point of view based on experience, which people may find helpful is not Hubris at all.
Helping others is rarely, if ever, a completely selfless act, we all get something out of it, that is human nature.
hi Jonathan, firstly you give me strength and support and I value that and you.
I understand what you feel at the moment and have felt that way too.
The way I look at it is that our minds are incredibly clever and absorb a lot more than we are aware of.
I've spoke of "freewriting" before where I just let my mind run free. this is how I answer a lot of messages and am often surprised at what I have written and gain from it myself.
I offer my thoughts and replies freely and leave it up to others to accept or reject them.
Everyone of us is an individual and no one answer suits all.
Why as people do we have to label everything and put it into a neat little category to be judged as good or bad, what you write on here is a statement of facts that have been experienced by yourself and you relay them to the messages/questions that they are relevant too, if people gain help from these that is their choice to accept, we cannot make people be helped!
And with regards to is help coming through us, are we guided to others by an outside force?
Who knows……… maybe we are! Fate, Devine intervention, some telepathic message or resonating frequencies in the atmosphere that conect all molecules, does it really matter? As long as it helps others and ourselves.
Am probably talking s##t now but Jonathan I am new to this site, I notice your posts and answers alot and take alot from them, I am well now but want to learn more about my illness and how others experience it and handle it so your posts are valued and insightful……… carry on please.. Steve
Yes I think I understand what you mean but I'm not very good at putting thoughts into words . You are invaluable to me , along with others as well...I have never read a post of yours and thought bad of you, only good, helpful , kind advice. You are sound!
Hmmm.... interesting, Jonathan. Just a small point - sorry I'm probably going to be guilty of "hubris" now - but in it's original Ancient Greek, it meant humans usurping the rights/powers/roles of the gods - and was always punished, I think by the Furies.
Your other point - what are we doing when we "help" someone? Good question - I think a great deal of ink has been spilt on the urge to altruism in humans. If we run a marathon/care for a sick relative/give to charity - what do we get out of it? Well, I suppose if we're honest, there is a "feel good" feedback factor - it makes us feel better about ourselves. However,I DO think there is a difference between those - very few if any on this site, thank God! - who are just plain bossy - do this, do that, do the other, and you'll be fine! Well, no, not necessarily! I think most of us have suffered or are suffering, and suffering can do two things - make you run like hell from anyone else who's suffering, or make you want to relieve it. I think most of us on here fall into the second category. For my part, suffering makes me mad as hell On the other hand, I recently saw an advert asking for VERY small monthly donations to a children's hospital; I thought - I COULD do that - but why? Quite simple. I was going through a period of feeling my life was totally meaningless, and giving a couple of quid a month to a good cause helped ME. So yeah, entirely selfish - but hopefully it still does some good!
As for whether, when we try to "help" someone, it's us, God, Karma, Buddha, the Great White Spirit - well, pass, frankly I used to be a Christian but the suffering in the world makes that very difficult for me now.
Reminds me of a story - bit vague now, so forgive me, but some guy who was working with special needs children noticed that when they interacted with animals - specifically, i think, horses - they seemed better. He asked advice from a professional colleague as to why this should be, and should he persevere, to which the colleague retorted "If it works, stop analysing it and just bloody DO it!"
PS If the doctor who saves your life is doing it out of a vocation, or because the money's good - do you care?
Love
Rose
xxxx
Hi. daisy. I cannot understand it properly either! But trying to explain one's feelings is always difficult, is it not? Thanks anyway for bothering to read it. Sort of rambling a bit. Love. jonathan.
Hello Jonathan sorry you've had a setback we all do from time to time you mustn't feel anything bad about yourself you give good help and friendship to people on here but don't forget your a sufferer too and you must take care of you and yours . When I come on here it's hard for me not to personally reach out to everyone when you read what they're going through I feel for us all I try to give support if i can and advice if i have any and encouragement our journeys to recovery are not all the same but their are some well trodden routes we can point out to each other we are all trying to reach a happier balance with our anxietys I'm pretty good at the moment but that can change in an instant it's the nature of anxiety I know from your blogs you'll rebuild as we all do after a setback and help others as you did with the same generosity of spirit as you did before good luck I wish you well. Mel
It's interesting really as to how support sites like this work.
There are no professionals or courses of any kind just various people posting questions or blogs and others answering.
The only thing we can offer each other is our own experience really and if we have something in our experience that helps somebody else then that is how it works.
As to why we do it ......I think we have varying degrees of empathy and that is a major factor but we also feel that if we help others here that we are valued members and possibly the more we help the more we are valued. We have a basic need to feel that we 'belong' and are accepted.
Content on HealthUnlocked does not replace the relationship between you and doctors or other healthcare professionals nor the advice you receive from them.
Never delay seeking advice or dialling emergency services because of something that you have read on HealthUnlocked.
On the other hand, I recently saw an advert asking for VERY small monthly donations to a children's hospital; I thought - I COULD do that - but why? Quite simple. I was going through a period of feeling my life was totally meaningless, and giving a couple of quid a month to a good cause helped ME. So yeah, entirely selfish - but hopefully it still does some good! 
Fear of dying from something wrong with my heart
I'm new here, I am experiencing throat tightness, gagging feeling. 
Dealing with morning anxiety.
Depersonalization and alertness 
