I’ve been trying to catch up on posts on here and end up talking about myself too much so I thought I’d try to put my own post out here.
I need support concerning my guilt over messing up my relationships with my adult children. I used to have very close relationships with all three of my kids. They knew they could talk to me about anything and I would always be supportive. As adults, they have others who are supportive so they don’t turn to me as much and that’s okay and is as it should be.
While they were little, I didn’t talk to them about my failing relationship with their dad. Even when they were having trouble with their relationship with him, I listened without turning it into a ‘me too’ session.
My oldest went through a scary time of depression and suicidal thoughts. I was terrified of losing him. I finally stood up to his dad and told him that no, he was not going to kick him out just because he got a lip ring ( the dad was a preacher). Things got better between them after that and my son’s depression got better and a few months later, when he was out of school and moved away, he didn’t struggle with it anymore.
However, there are over ten years between my two oldest kids and my youngest child . When my youngest was in junior high, he started having problems with their dad. His neglect caused deep insecurities and depression. There was bullying at school which made everything worse. I started out just being supportive but when that wasn’t helping, I decided to let him know that his dad was neglectful to me as well and that I understood how it made him feel since my dad was also neglectful. About the same time, my oldest son had a child and I talked to him about his dad and how that I knew he would be a much better father. That opened the floodgates and I started talking to all my kids about their dad’s neglect. I thought I was being supportive and that they would be supportive in return. I thought that since they were adults or almost an adult in the case of my youngest, that they could handle it and maybe help me through it or overcome it or whatever. I didn’t know until years later that I was severely damaging them and our relationships. Because of our early close relationships, they tried to help but I didn’t see that I was tearing them apart by putting them in the middle. My youngest finally told me he couldn’t handle talking about it so I stopped but the damage was done.
My oldest is really into philosophy and I thought that with that and his teen problems with his dad, he would be able to understand and help me. After I left his dad and we were going through divorce, he finally told me that he would prefer not to be in the middle so I needed to stop talking about it but the damage was done.
My daughter encouraged me to talk about it She was studying psychology and thought she should be able to handle it and help me to get through it and get better without breaking up the family but after the divorce proceedings had started, she admitted that she couldn’t talk about it anymore but again, the damage was done.
After all of that, I talked to a new friend who told me that parents aren’t supposed to talk to their kids about the other parent, not even adult children. Then I read a book about reconnecting with adult children and learned how damaging it could be to talk to them about the other parent. Now I understood what I had done but didn’t know how to fix it. I still don’t.
I’ve talked to my therapist about it many times and did an EMDR session last week about the guilt I feel from the damage I did. It hasn’t really helped yet. We’re supposed to keep working on it but I just needed to talk to this group about it. She’s young and her kids are still at home and I don’t think she can relate on a personal level.
The weight of guilt is so overwhelming at times. Not knowing what to do to fix our relationships is also overwhelming at times. It’s been over a year since I stopped talking about their dad. I thought more healing would’ve happened by now. I’m afraid the damage is permanent and we’ll never be close again.
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Mumbutterfly
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hi mumbutterfly 🤗, I’m so sorry your going through this !! I don’t have many answers for you as I’m going through extreme parent guilt and trying to work it all out too . But I had to reach out to you and tell you that there’s someone out here that understands your pain. I was in an extremely mentally / sometimes physically abusive marriage for over 20 yrs and my guilt for that is overwhelming. I didn’t recognise all of it as abuse and he’s very charming in front of others , the guilt at times has been unbearable and sent me into a deep depression. You sound like an absolutely wonderful mother with only good intentions ,so please try to be kind to yourself. Being neglected by your spouse can have a profound affect on a person. All I can say is my heart reaches out to you and I understand the pain you are going through. I pray us mums are freed from this guilt and I pray that your relationships with your children grows and grows . 💕
Thank you for reaching out to me. I’m so sorry you had to go through that and that you’re also struggling with parent guilt. It’s the hardest thing I’ve ever had to struggle with, including anxiety, depression, and constant head pain. I hope we can both find a way to overcome it! Thank you so much for your encouragement!!
I can only add perspective as the child. It's confusing for everyone in these situations, damage is done all the way around. I was very angry w my mom for a few years about things that as I got older and my own perspective changed, I realized I was being unfair and I realized that my mom was always doing the best she could in the dreadful circumstances she found herself in. But it did take time, my own time. She had to just give me space. We have a good relationship now. I have to admit, hearing the backgrounds of your kids, I can see why you thought you could discuss these things, and it seems clear you weren't doing it to tear down your spouse, as people often do, rather to validate your kids' experience, however..... live and learn. In the grand scheme of life, a year isn't that long. It took my mom and me a few years to get back to a solid relationship. It took me having friends (I've been very lucky in love myself, and I don't have children) that were in terribly abusive relationships, that I shared their suffering with before I realized just how much mom suffered in silence, how much she had to keep from us, even while she was trying to protect us. She was in an incredibly helpless place, being emotionally beaten down daily but responsible for 2 small children. I cannot imagine doing it now. We're all on our own journeys through life, we all take a different path. My mom let me know she was sorry for what she could, kept the door open without forcing it, and just waited. It worked out for us...
Thank you for sharing your perspective as the adult child. It is encouraging that your relationship with your mother improved over time.
I’m giving my kids space but don’t really know how much space they need. My oldest calls about once a week but my other two don’t. They have told me that I can call anytime but I try not to abuse that by calling too often.
I worry that I’m not calling enough for them to know how much they mean to me. I would like to talk to them every week but every two weeks would be okay for now. I’m afraid that’s too much so I usually wait a month or so.
Sometimes we text short messages in between but any communication is initiated by me and that hurts. It seems to be an indication that they don’t want to hear from me but my therapist says it’s my responsibility as the mom to maintain communication even if they don’t initiate it.
I feel like people make time for the ones who are in the top priority section of their lives and that I’m not in theirs. I don’t know if it’s me as a person or the damage I did. If it’s me, I don’t know what I can change about myself to make things better. If it’s the damage, I don’t know if there’s anything I can do to help the healing.
I realize every person is different but would you share how you and your mother worked out how much space was enough without there being too much space? And if there were things she said or did that made things easier or more difficult.
Man, I don't want to freak you out, because our situation was our own... But she and I barely spoke for a few years when I was in college. I started seeing a therapist when I got married, I thought to help me deal w the abuse that my dad had put us all through (terrible narcissist, mentally and physically abusive to us kids and to her), but as therapy progressed, I realized I had anger towards her too, BUT, she didn't handle her situation well (who would, I realize now...) but as a younger adult, I was angry she didn't get us out of there sooner. I would only talk to her maybe 2-3 times a year for almost 4 years. I'd just ignore her other phonecalls and texts. But as I got older, as I knew friends in abusive relationships and saw how it's not so simple, not at all, and that she was doing all she could w the resource she could at the time... I went to her and apologized, and we just kinda picked up where we left off. We never really worked anything official out. I'm not proud of how I acted now either, it wasn't right to do that to my momma... Years I tortured her for her doing the best she could.
I like getting texts from my mom over phone calls. That way I can respond when I'm feeling up to it. I think my generation on down just likes it more that way...we're all kinda afraid of the phone. And yes, my mom still texts me more than I text her, but that doesn't mean I don't love her very much. I guess it's just what she's always done...??? Idk if any of that helps.... Hang in there. Talk about light stuff, just to keep communication open, a new bird feeder, a cool movie you saw, stuff like that. The other stuff will come especially if she knows you're just there, not there w any pressure, just there😊. I can tell you love them very much. I'm sorry you all went through that. Congrats for getting out, it takes a lot of strength!!!
What you’ve said hasn’t freaked me out it’s actually given me a lot of hope and good advice. Seeing things from that perspective is something I needed.
I’m sorry all of you had to live through that kind of abuse. From all I’ve heard, your response was very normal and some people never get over it. I’m so glad you were able to get the help you needed to be able to reconnect with her. You were able to grow into a very wise person.
Thank you so much for all you’ve shared. It is encouraging to hear how you overcame and grew in your perspective towards your mom.
1). Congratulations on your bravery/ courageous spirit to want to make a right relationship with your adult kids.
2). You are a wonderful mom! A mom can only do what she knows is best, and knowing that we (moms) are only humans also. We make mistakes, fortunately, we can, and are always will be the example for our families especially our children! Moms are the "backbone" of the family. - showing our children that we can be humble and admit our mistakes and ask for their forgiveness, and take those meassures to correct our wrong doings and work at making things right once again is admirable in teaching our children about true humility and forgiveness. Congratulations, on courageously taking this step! - We are always learning our entire life. Our children are always watching us as moms, we are always leading our children (adult children included) by our examples.
3). Prayer is such an important part raising our children and even now that they have become adult children! God knows our children better than we know our children. Even when we don't know how to pray for them all we have to to is ask Jesus for help, help me with my children, I don't know what to do, but Lord you do. Please help! Amen
I understand where you are coming from as a mom. I have 3 adult children. I sometimes wonder about how did I do raising up my children? But, I have to remember, I did the best job that I could with what I knew back then. I gave what I could not deal with to God and asked Him to take the lead and show me the way...
Here is a quote that I like to use once in awhile:
" Don't worry about the past for it is gone, don't worry about the future for it has not yet come. Focus onto today, for it is a present."
Thank you for your support and advice. Sorry it’s taken me so long to respond. My work schedule keeps me from being able to get on here for days at a time.
speaking as a child a sincere, selfless apology means a lot. My father sent me a letter apology that was more focused on explaining why than a simple sorry. My mother simply apologized. You can imagine who I have a better relationship with. The reality is I came to see his behavior as a character flaw rather than intentional but I never felt comfortable around him because he never treated me as an adult with my own mind. My advice is to practice (it does take practice) one that truly is an apology and be prepared to respond to feedback in a thoughtful way. It could be that they are more resilient and forgiving than you imagine. Or they don’t want you around for awhile. Either way they need time and that is their right. Release that responsibility to them. Relationships are a two way street. Most important forgive yourself. What you did is in the past. What you do now go8ng forward is what matters, it’s hard to move forward if you haven’t forgiven yourself.
Thank you for sharing your experience. You’re right, I do need to give them space and forgive myself. We’re all still on speaking terms and I am thankful for that. I think I wouldn’t worry so much if I could just forgive myself.
When I get to talk to them, everything is great. Talked with my oldest son yesterday and my youngest today and they’re both doing great and excited about their present and immediate future. I feel so much better after talking to them. I just wish it was more often. I try to keep the focus on them and stay positive about the things I share with them when they ask.
When I talked to my therapist about it and told her how I called my parents once a week but I realized that it was because I was insecure in our relationships. I was constantly seeking approval which never happened. My kids are very secure in my love, approval, and support. They don’t need to call to seek those things.
They also have good relationships with their partners and/or good support relationships with friends and they don’t need me for that anymore or not as much anyway and that’s as it should be and I’m thankful they have that. I have never had that except for them and one friend. I’m working on building some now but it’s taking a while.
The support I’ve received on here has helped so much. I’m trying to catch up on emails about posts since I was off for so long. It’s a little overwhelming and I may reach a point where I just go through and delete them since they were so long ago anyway.
Hi Mum (((hugs))) I have been wanting to reply to your post on my thread, or conversation. The one about Heinrich what's his face. But I can't stand to read my own initial post. so I'll reply to you here, if that's ok
The whole parent/child thing is too much for me to deal with. I don't think I am in "denial" about it so much as I am literally sick to death of analyzing my own family and all of the things that were wrong with us.
My Mom and Dad are long since gone. Sadly, I do still have 2 brothers and a sister. I can't stand any of them, honestly, and literally. I DESPISE every one of them. F*** em all pretty much
And don't worry about ME for a single second. truly. I'm fine. if I never see any of them again for the next 10 zillion years, it will be way too soon. Conversely, I DO miss my Mom & Dad terribly.
As for your own kids, it's a shame they can't all see how very very lucky they are to have a Mom like you.
Human nature and life itself being what it is ( a gigantic pile of manure basically) your kids or anyone elses kids will never come to that realization of how lucky they are until it's too late.
no need to hurry that along. take some of your own advice. forgive yourself unconditionally, and completely, without any "what if?" or "should coulda woulda" stuff.
My own armchair psychobabble advice? Live your life, as long as you can, and let the kid call you. let THEM call YOU. I hope you did not find my post offensive in any way.
Thanks for sharing your experience and for your encouragement. I’m doing a little bit better. I keep reminding myself that I chose to be a mom knowing it’s a lifetime position. I consciously chose to stay in their lives when they were little after realizing it would mean living in constant pain. I knew that losing their mom would cause them more pain than I was enduring. I still make that choice now that they’re grown and don’t really need me anymore. It would still cause them more pain than I have already caused. My son reminded me that as long as we’re all still alive, there is hope that things will get better as we all heal individually from our own issues from our childhoods
Being in constant pain is still really hard sometimes and I have to remind myself why I’m still here. I love my kids so much and would do anything for them so I choose to live with the pain and hope things get better with our relationships. I think they will over time. I just miss them so much and want things to be better right now. I’m trying to accept that I need to back off and not try to fix things and that’s hard when it hurts so badly.
I’m thankful that we’re all still talking at least. It may not be as often as I would like but it’s much better than nothing. The two who don’t call much are going to be here for a little while tomorrow. I have to work tonight and will have to stay up after getting home from work in the morning so I can visit with them for a while. They’re coming to bring some stuff here to be stored since they’re moving and I guess they’re coming during the week so I can see them since I had told them I would be working on the weekends. Tonight’s shift was added afterwards. I think they might be coming when I can see them because of Mother’s Day. I just hope I can let things go and be myself around them and not say anything to trigger them and make them push away even further. We all walk on eggshells with each other and it makes it really hard to just enjoy their company but I’m going to try.
Hi Mum ((hugs)) I wish i could say more......and I will, I promise. I'm not sure what kind of mood I am in. but it aint a good'n : ) I kinda feel like at this present moment, trying to offer helpful advice to anyone seems like a bad idea. I hope you are doing ok tonight! and maybe if I lay down awhile, I'll wake up in a better state of mind. I hope so! just letting you know, was thinking of you, and hope all is well, within reason. G'nite JOB
Things went well with my visit with my two youngest yesterday. I don’t think I said anything that will make things worse anyway. I have more hope that the relationships will eventually get better and am more accepting of the idea of letting things go, not trying to fix things, and just focusing on enjoying their company when I have it instead of worrying that I don’t have more of it right now.
Hi Mum! sounds good to me, except for one tiny detail........ready? here goes. Mumbutterfly said >>Things went well with my visit with my two youngest yesterday. I don’t think I said anything that will make things worse anyway<< Ok, what I am wondering about here is what could you POSSIBLY have said that would make things worse? and since we're on that subject, what on earth could you have done in the FIRST place to cause you all this worry and angst? I think I'll stop right there. If I were to be ASKED for any advice, it would be, go make some new friends. focus on your own life. join some kind of group on meetup or one of those type of groups. From reading your posts, it sounds like you have already bent over backwards to try and fix these relationships with your3 kids. Please don't be offended, but now it's the kids' turn to bend a little
Idk how much you have progressed through these 3 months since you wrote it through but I would still like to mention and appreciate you on coming out.
It's hard, it's really hard for an individual to accept that he has done wrong to somebody. When that individual happens to be a parent, it becomes harder.
The moment you realised that you were intentionally/unintentionally wrong to your children, you won the battle half through.
I too, have been going through a relationship crisis with my family since a few years now and with each passing years, things are worsening. For the very first time, I talked to my therapist about it and she said that my parents don't have enough time to introspect into themselves as they are too occupied with the other stuffs that are happening in their lives. There will be a moment, when they will be free from all what they think is a burden and then, they will have some time to think what's going around.
That would be the day of great regret in their heart!
You've already come this way dear. So congratulations!
All I want to say is that I know it's hard but keep on trying.
For instance, make a whatsApp group with all your children as a participant. Take a screenshot of the post that you wrote and share it in that group. Give them some days to read and absorb what you came to realise. Don't expect an answer.
When they will read the exact feeling that you hold, their anger will start melting and they will reconnect with you and each too and talk about all of this.
When this happens, schedule a meeting at you home (maybe a stayover/lunch/dinner). Have a normal, casual conversation on the table. Don't bring up any serious/self-explanatory topic.
Enjoy their company and let them enjoy yours. Build that bond again naturally and whenever you think, things have started to get better in between all of you, initiate the conversation.
That's what I feel as an adult that my parents could have done.
Thank you for your encouragement, sharing your experience, and for the good ideas.
I have apologized to each of them for damaging our relationships and they know I want things to be better between us. They know I’m going to therapy to try to heal my insecurities from childhood that are causing me to be insecure in our relationships. They’re all going to therapy as well so we all just need to focus on our own healing and I need to back off and stop trying to fix things. This seems to be how they want to handle things right now and it seems to be working
My two youngest, who distance themselves from me the most, came to see me yesterday as an early Mother’s Day visit since I have to work this weekend and won’t be available. I tried to focus on just enjoying being with them and hearing about how things are going with them. It went well, I think, and gave me hope that things will eventually get better.
I would love to talk it all out but that’s not what they want right now so we’ll do it their way. I don’t know if they’ll ever want to talk about it, even when things get better. They seem to want to leave the past in the past and each of us focus on healing our own issues with our childhoods.
It’s hard not to try to fix things but this seems to be what they prefer and seems to work the best for now. Maybe by giving them space, they’ll want to see and talk to me more often, eventually anyway.
>>It's hard, it's really hard for an individual to accept that he has done wrong to somebody. When that individual happens to be a parent, it becomes harder<<
I must have missed something. what precisely did she do that was so wrong?
Thank you for defending me But I think this person was using a generic term to address me. In the South, we spell it ‘ma’am’. They are also responding from their own experience with unapologetic parents. The things I did wrong were talking to my children about their dad which is a huge physiological error that parents should never do, even when the children are adults.
Don’t have time to respond better. Gotta leave for work and it will be Monday morning before I can get back on.
so, you talked to your kids about their Dad. hmmmm....whether or not that is a good or a bad thing is now beside the point. right? did it really effect them so negatively?
I don't really understand that. but that doesn't matter either. what matters is you make yourself happy in your own skin, and let the 3 kids decide if they love and accept you unconditionally. I cannot fathom why they wouldn't do that.
I really appreciate your advice and encouragement. I don’t know if I can answer your question about what I could possibly say that would make things worse. There are so many things that can trigger them. They’re still healing from the neglect and other things from their childhood. Their dad is trying to do better and they want/need to have better relationships with him. A parent’s emotional neglect can cause so many insecurities. I’m struggling with those myself for the same reason and it’s really hard feeling a fear of being rejected and abandoned, feeling that I’m not good enough, am unlikeable, and uninteresting. I have times when it’s not too bad and then something will happen that triggers me and I fall to pieces again. I have a lot of work to do in overcoming these issues.
The distancing got worse after I had a really bad struggle with suicidal thoughts over two years ago. It got so bad that I sent my kids a text basically telling them goodbye. I had a plan and was going to follow through if things didn’t get better. I had gotten more and more depressed and thought they didn’t really want or need me in their lives anymore. I had left their dad and broken up the family. They said they just wanted me to be happy but they didn’t want to talk about why I left. The physical pain from constant headaches and the emotional pain from feeling rejected and abandoned made me want to end them both permanently. The depression kept me from being able to think clearly and I felt like it was the only solution.
My daughter drove down to see me after getting that text. She was very supportive and encouraging and also said she was acting on behalf of the others as well since they couldn’t make it. I guess the text was a call for help but I didn’t expect anyone to actually show up. I realized that it would have hurt them badly if I had gone through with it and determined that I would never let myself get that bad again. They love me and want me in their lives even if we can’t be together as often anymore.
I started working on my mental health and the kids were really supportive but communication started getting less and less frequent. I found out a year later that parents aren’t supposed to talk to their kids about their own emotional issues, especially suicidal issues. It does something to them psychologically and they unconsciously distance themselves. I started doing better about that and thought things would get easier but they didn’t. I think that text really scared them and it will take a long time to get over it. I think they also need to see me truly healing and ‘getting a life’ before they can feel safe getting close again.
I’m trying to do both but it’s taking forever. I was having a rough spot when I replied to your post. I’m doing better now and your replies really helped. Writing all this out has helped. I know I write too much but I have actually left out a ton of stuff. It’s taken me hours to write and edit this. Thanks for showing an interest in my issues by reading and responding to my post and replies. It has meant a lot to me. I’m glad you decided to stay in the group
I’ve talked a lot about myself and my problems but I’m actually a good listener so feel free to bend my ear anytime
Mumbutterfly said >>I’ve talked a lot about myself and my problems but I’m actually a good listener so feel free to bend my ear anytime :)<< thanks. that's a nice offer. geez, that'll be a big book. like War and Peace. ever read that? War and peace? I'll save ya the trouble. it's about Russia. ok, I'll work on talking about my own family and our absurd lives together. First though, one last question about you. What's with the headaches? you still have those? if yes, why can't the quacks figure out what to do about that. geez, they've had long enough. I get a lot of killer headaches my own self. If one of my headaches could come to life like a cartoon character and jump out of my head, it could walok down to the railway tracks, and stand in the middle of the path of a speeding freight train, and stare that rascal down. and no, no diagnosis. best guess? stress, tension, and a lot of nasty allergies. what do the docs say are causing yours? I take 4 excedrin extra strength, and 5 chlorphenarimine maleate tabs. the excedrin gets rid of the headaches (somehow) and the Chlorphenaramine (Chlor-Trimeton) takes a lot longer, but eventually dries up my shnoz and shrinks all the sinus down to livable levels. so, what's up with your own headaches? do you take any prescription meds? or anything? and has a doc ever given you a hint as to what is causing them?
Oh wow. You’re a glutton for punishment aren’t you, lol.
First of all, I’m sorry that you have headaches that bad too. I have other aches and pains but headaches affect so much more than just the head. They make it hard to think and function on a normal level, affect mood and depression and anxiety and all the things. I’ve actually lost intelligence from brain cells being killed by pain, and that brain chemical that I can’t think of right now. It’ll come to me, maybe. I can’t even spell properly sometimes. I saw a post where you said your IQ was 170, or at least I think it was you. I doubt mine was ever that high but I was valedictorian in high school so I had some intelligence anyway. Not that I think good grades equals intelligence. There were kids who were super smart but did awful in school. Nor do I think intelligence equals success or being a decent human being. I didn’t do anything with what I had but be a homemaker. I do think it helped me be a good mother maybe. My job now is as a caregiver for the elderly. I had no other marketable skills than caregiving. I also needed low stress both physically, mentally and emotionally. I chose overnight shifts because I can read all night and stay alert. My clients actually look forward to my shifts, or at least they say they do, so I must be doing it right. I love to listen to them and they love someone to talk to so it works well.
Here’s the deal with my headaches. I was going through a depression episode. I was in a car accident and was knocked out for a few seconds. I was pregnant with my second child and my oldest was in the back seat in a booster seat. I didn’t even know I was knocked out until I was told about it later. My first thought was for my son and second for the baby. He was fine and I wasn’t having any abdominal pain so I was just relieved that they were okay. I don’t even remember the first headache after that. It was just a headache and it went away with Tylenol so I didn’t think anything about it. Same was true for the next occasional ones. The first ones I remember were after the epidural while giving birth to my daughter. I was given Tylenol 3 in the hospital and had to ask for a prescription at home because I kept having them. I wasn’t able to get refills and it turned out that was a good thing because they were giving me rebound headaches. I started having headaches (which were actually migraines, just not the classic ones) once a week and then twice a week and so on until 2&1/2 years later they stopped going away. We had just moved and I thought it was from all the lifting and stuff but when they were still going after two months, I started thinking maybe something was wrong. I went to a chiropractor first and they got worse. I had my eyes checked and that wasn’t it. I went to a medical doctor and they did a CT scan and nothing showed up. I hadn’t even thought about a brain tumor so that was scary. Then I went to a neurologist and they prescribed anti depressants. I was so confused and upset. I told them I was depressed because my head hurt all the time but they explained it could be a chemical imbalance. None of the ones I tried over the years has helped. I’ve been to two neurologists who specialize in headaches and migraines and they said they were a combination of stress and migraine but nothing they tried helped either. The first one did an MRI and all kinds of other tests. He thought it might be sinus so I had sinus surgery and that was a big mistake; a lot of pain and no help. My dad told me at some point that he had had headaches since childhood. He was the ‘strong, silent type’ and never complained. I just thought he was angry most of the time. So that’s basically probably why I have them. He was physically abused and that was probably what triggered his. I was going through depression when in the car accident and during the birth and some say that when physical trauma is combined with depression, it can lead to chronic pain. People told me I just needed to relax and not stress. I tried that too but it’s just more complicated than that.
I have taken Excedrin daily at times. The first headache specialist took me off of anything that could cause rebound including that. I have gotten back on it at times because it helped me to function and the headaches were worse without it, not better. I stopped taking it about a year ago when I read that too much caffeine could make anxiety worse. I’ve been on generic Esgic for twenty something years now. It also has caffeine in it so I cut the tablets up and try to not take more than a quarter at a time and a lot less at night. Sinuses were acting up lately so I’m taking Sudafed but hoping to stop taking it soon. I take generic Maxalt about four times a day. I cut them into quarters so I can take them more often. I’m on generic klonopin and have been for several years. I read that it can make anxiety worse after being on it for a while so I cut those into quarters and got down to just one piece last year and then stuff happened and I had to take two pieces but I’m gonna try to get off of it again because someone said on here said it’s a benzo and is a downer and I don’t need anything making things worse. I take it at night to sleep so I don’t know if I can get off of it or not. I also take a muscle relaxer for sleep but have been cutting them up too and trying to get off of them. My son got me some delta eight gummies for my sixtieth birthday. I tried them but they made my head feel like it was going to explode so I tried CBT and CBN gummies instead and they help with sleeping so I may be able to get off of the klonopin at least. I also take Benadryl, meclizine, melatonin, Ashwaghanda, and magnesium for sleep. Getting enough sleep is my biggest problem because of the pain and the anxiety and not getting enough sleep makes them and the depression worse so it’s kind of a vicious cycle sometimes.
Well, there’s my war and not much peace, lol. No, I haven’t read it. I did read a huge book on Russian history in high school I much prefer light reading since it’s hard to concentrate. I like fiction with happy endings that take me away from reality. I like writers with a sense of humor to lighten things up. I wrote a post where I first got on here about sci-fi/fantasy being a good distraction. I started reading Brandon Sanderson a couple of years ago and have read just about everything he’s written because I love his stuff so much. No one else seemed to have even heard of him., but books are a whole other topic and I gotta go do dishes before I can go to bed. I work tomorrow night and Friday and Saturday nights so I don’t know when I’ll be able to get back on and chat again. Thanks again for asking about things instead of making a comment and then dropping me. You make me feel seen and heard and I really need that right now.
of course you are seen and heard Mum. by the way, I stole that joke from Woody Allen. If I was a teacher, and some wiseass kid like Woody stood up to give his book report of War And Peace with a straight face and said "It's about Russia" I'd give the kid an A+...........that IS what it's about. and it's too long and too dreary. I couldn't finish it. I feel bad for people who live there. sounds like a miserable place. no wonder they all drink so much водка (vodka) anyway, it sounds like the docs couldn't figure out your headaches. that's not much help. there is something synergistic about Excedrin.
it's 250 mg aspirin, 250 of tylenol, and 65 mg of caffeine. I wouldn't worry about the caffeine. as I said, I take 4 of them at a time, and it knocks out a headache. I don't really know what a rebound headache is. I don't think I ever had one. what does that mean, precisely? 4 Excedrins for a headache equals 260 mg of caffeine. a whopping dose. but the caffein has never effected me badly. is it "effect" or "affect"? I think it's effect. the relief from a GONE headache does wonders for my anxiety. maybe I'm high on caffeine
so be it. as you said yourself, with a killer headache, one can't think or function, hardly at all. in my case, not AT all. nada. I try to eat something halfway good and substantial, and then inhale my 4 excedrins. you need SOMETHING to lose those headaches. that's gotta be a tough way to live. I don't know what Esgic is. I will look that up. try to stomach the next few working days as best as possible. Write back soon!
I’m reading a book called, When the Body Says No. It talks about how stress affects our physical health. It seems to have the answer for why I have the headaches. Hoping it will tell me how to get rid of them.
I had high blood pressure for years and thought it was just an inherited trait. Then I cut back on the caffeine meds and my BP dropped too low so I stopped the BP meds and cut back on the sleep meds and it leveled out.
The extra caffeine does help initially but it takes more and more to get the same effect since I have them every day so even when I didn’t know it was affecting my BP, it wasn’t a viable option. I also have high liver levels which could either be inherited from my dad or be from taking so much Tylenol. That’s another reason to keep trying to take less.
I do get an extra caffeine boost sometimes from dark chocolate when they’re bad.
My doctor is trying to get my insurance to cover the new migraine medication called UBRELVY. He got me some samples and it helps with the really bad ones that nothing else touches.
I also take either ibuprofen or naproxen once a week for the bad ones. I can’t take them more often because they stop helping.
I love my job and the people I work with so it’s not a hardship I just don’t get enough sleep and try to make it up when I’m off and I don’t have wifi so my time on here is limited.
Thanks for the link. I’ve been using that site for years. It’s how I figured out why my BP had dropped and which meds I needed to cut back on. I go there when I hear about a new depression or headache medication so I can see what the side effects are. I go to GoodRx to see how much they would cost. The UBRELVY is about a thousand dollars even with the coupon. If insurance continues to refuse to cover it, at least I know it helps and will just have to wait for the price to go down. That’s what I had to do with the Maxalt.
Anyway, maybe I won’t need all these meds if the book actually has a way to get rid of them altogether
Aspirin, butalbital, and caffeine dosing information
Usual Adult Dose for Pain:
1 or 2 capsules orally every 4 hours as needed not to exceed 6 capsules per day
Comments:
-Due to high rate of physical dependence, the extended use BLAH BLAH F***ING blah, and a few yada yada's for good measure.
I prefer aspirin to tylenol. tylenol is crap. my Excedrins have a good dose of tylenol, but I only get the killer headaches every few days, or less. so my liver hasn't fallen out yet.
thing about aspirin is ya need to eat something fairly substantial, and as heathy as possible. a decent sandwich maybe? I know, it's hard to gag down solid food with a train stopping headache. iffin' ya don't eat, the aspirin can mess up yer guts. I guess nothing is perfect is it?
maybe your GP could write a script for Isometheptene, Dichloralphenazone and aspirin to fill at a compounding pharmacy. what I typed here is basically generic Midrin without the caffeine. AND without the acetamenohin, or tylenol.
Hi Mum! you said >>Thank you for the recommendation. I’m impressed by the level of research you’ve done for this :)<< My pleasure Ma'am! besides, I have already done most of it. I have a brother who was diagnosed with migraines, hence, my research of Midrin, the most common med for migraines. or rather it USED to be common, but the good old folk at the FDA pulled it off the market with some horse S**t reason why. so bro has a doc that writes scripts for the combination of goodies that were IN Midrin. bro now goes to a compounding pharmacy. The REAL reason the FDA pulled it is because the patent ran out. There MIGHT be some legit reason why name brand Midrin was yanked, but I have yet to hear it
I wondered about that. I looked it up to see about side effects and stuff and saw that it isn’t available except through compounding, as you recommended. It sounded like it worked really well for some people. I’ll talk to my doctor and insurance about it. Thanks for filling me in on the details
I’m very glad you had three headache free days and hope they continue
Hi Mum. yes, I should think that your insurane might be your only possible bugaboo. My brother wanted his own version, simply meaning he wanted aspirin instead of tylenol, but all the rest is the same, including caffeine. I left the caffeine out of your personal concoction of the stuff. If memory serves, your metabolism, unique to you of course, has something of an adverse reaction to caffeine. is that right?
Yes, it raises my blood pressure if I have too much. I need a little bit though to help me get going with my day and it helps take the edge off of the pain. If I’m able to do the compounding, I can have them put in a little less.
>>maybe your GP could write a script for Isometheptene, Dichloralphenazone and aspirin to fill at a compounding pharmacy. what I typed here is basically generic Midrin without the caffeine. AND without the acetamenohin, or tylenol<<
Yes, I thought I said all that. turns out I was right. first time for everything
I hope the book offers something helpful that you haven't already thought of or tried on your own. maybe it will! also, ice packs can really help. there's ice packs of every variety. I use one behind my neck, another one on my forehead, and even a frozen sinus mask that has eye holes, and a hole for the shnoz, so ya can breathe. the downside is, I am only able to use all that stuff I I plan to lay down for an hour or more. being at work may be too much trouble for ice packs. as I said, I hope your book is helpful! how are you feeling today, by the way? today for me? no headaches so far
Ice packs are my constant companion I’ve even made my own and pouches for them to fit in. I sit with one on the back of my head in the occipital region where my pain radiates from. I move it to the top of my head if that doesn’t calm it down enough and when I’m lying down, it’s on the top and side of my head. I take one to work and use it there since I’m sitting most of the night. It thaws out towards the end of my shift and I have to wait until I get home to get another so the morning and the drive home is rough. I even use one while driving on trips to see my kids.
Thanks for sharing this tip with me. I like trying non medicinal remedies as much as possible
Glad you were having a headache free day yesterday. Hope the same is true today
Day 3 with no headaches. lucky me huh? it's mostly the heat here in Phoenix. and to my benefit, we have LONG summers. From late April thru most of October. The other 6 months are of course Gorgeous, weather-wise. flowers blooming, lovely weather, etc..AND unbelievably horrible allergies for me. Many Dumdums who live here (mostly transplants) prattle about the citrus trees wreaking havoc with their allergies. WRONG. it's the real desert trees blowing pollen all over hell's half acre. people can be quite silly. anyway, I was born here. I can even stand the outdoor heat in the dead of summer, provided I stay in the shade. it's the ultraviolet that is my enemy. my family DNA has a history of skin cancer. I've had enough Big Macs carved out of me to serve ghastly sandwich's for a 6 hour shift at the drive thru at Mickey D's. "ya want fries with that?"
I didn’t know Arizona had an allergy season. I’m sorry it’s such a long one and that it affects you so badly. Half a year is an incredibly long time when it’s so hard on you. Since we’re into May and you’re still having those horrible headaches, do they continue all year just not as frequent during the summer season?
The skin cancer thing sounds like a nightmare.That’s a lot of meat. Do you still get it now or was that before you started avoiding the sun?
>>I didn’t know Arizona had an allergy season. I’m sorry it’s such a long one and that it affects you so badly. Half a year is an incredibly long time when it’s so hard on you<<
Well, there's an allergy season for me. not sure about anyone else. and it's almost June. allergies gradually going away and a lot less headaches in the summer, meaning from now until Thanksgiving
>>The skin cancer thing sounds like a nightmare.That’s a lot of meat. Do you still get it now or was that before you started avoiding the sun?<<
most of the damage is from 20 or 30 years ago. my most recent excision was a couple years ago. I'm sure there'll be more
as for staying out of the sun, it is not always avoidable. if I am ABLE to stay in the shade? I do! it just seems like a good idea, that's all
Mum, am happy to know you are already an ice pack enthusiast. I should have sussed that in the first place. It's also cool that can use them at work. that likely comes in right handy. I hope you are having a headache free day
I'm glad you understand where I'm coming from and took the meaning of my words as they were said. Thank you ❤I'm happy that things have started going their way for you and your children.
Everyone has their own pattern of healing and if this is theirs, you are doing the right thing to support them. They too, seem to come back to you which is good.
I'm sorry if I said anything offensive in my post. It was unintentional, but still, maybe a dumb thing to say. in the UK, Mum is a nickname like we use Mom here in the US. and however you mesnt "mam" was not offensive in the least. so, as I say, correcting you was likely pretty lame. I'm sorry about that!
She is my elder so I didn't want to call her by her name which is why I used the term 'mam'. It was out of pure respect and had nothing else to do. I'm glad you realised.
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it’s actually given me a lot of hope and good advice. Seeing things from that perspective is something I needed. 
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