I was self- trying t4t3 slow release 20cmg/4mcg for about 7 weeks due to no help available Dec/Jan. First day or two did well, after that got jitters, dry eyes, tingling, some things felt okay, but my cortisol tests level was normal a.m. and pm. In middle-range.
I tried 5mcg slow realease t3 only, got jitters. I tried synthroid very short, 1 week 37.5mcg. Got a burning mouth, dry eyes.
I have had Hashimotos for 15- 20 years? Not diagnosed til 2012, I'm now older but always within normal blood range. TSH was 5.4 December 2019. But I've been 2.80-3.30 this past year after self dosing Dec/Jan.
I've had all the low thyroid symptoms, dry skin, brittle hair shedding, constipation, enlarged tongue, fatigue, sleep apnea, stopped falling asleep for a year now. I take lunesta, but wake every night 3a.m. I feel air hunger. CPAP no help.
A new GP says he will try me in 25mcg Levoxyl today, not Synthroid or levothyroxine. eople on here said for me to start at least 50mcg. Doc wants to go methodically slow because of antibodies, and because of the jitters I got on thyroid medication I self-took. Is 25 mcg really low, putting just a little T4 back? I don't know if T4 w/o T3 is going to help my symptoms. I tried Armor a bit in 2019.
Thyroid meds give me strong, side effects sadly. I know I need T3.
3.30 tsh, 1.09 t4ng/dl, t3 2.20 pg/ml, b12 721, tpo 202, tg 349 in Jan. My tpo was 177 last week...folate 14.7 ng ml, Iron 92 ug /dl iron saturation was 28%.
Do I try 25mcg t4 Levoxyl that may cause the burning mouth, etc. or ask for higher dose 50mcg- or try another doctor to get Armor. (He doesn't like it, says it can be unreliable dose wise)
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Can I ask what slow release t3 did you try? Do you think it makes a difference as it was recommended to me a whole ago but I don't know anyone who took it nor actually who does it ? I'm at a stage where I tried NDT and that worked well for a year although with jittery side effects so stopped it ..tried t4/t3 combo..no use ...tried t3 alone..no good ....I just cannot find a happy balance with anything and weight going up again... I have now also tried metavive ii both porcine and bovine ..😭
I was also on 220mg levo prior to starting ndt and when I went back to t4/ t3 combo I was on 100 levo ... t3 I take is tiromel so thought perhaps it may be worth trying armour
If taking levo gives you the jitters, it could be that you have nutritional deficiencies. So, probably, your first step should be to get your vit D, vit B12, folate and ferritin tested, and make sure they are all optimal before starting on at least 50 mcg levo. 25 mcg could make you a whole lot worse meaning that your obviously ignorant endo will conclude that you don't need it! Oh, we see all their tricks on here!
He is totally wrong in saying that you need to start low because of the antibodies. That doesn't even make any sense. What does he think the levo is going to do to the antibodies? Intoxicate them, or something? I think he's just totally out of his depth. Most of them are with thyroid, because they are so-called 'diabetes specialists' who think they can wing it with thyroid. They can't.
Greygoose, I want you to know that I can not get the picture of the "intoxicated antibodies" out of my inner eye. Here they are staggering all over the place, running into each other, swearing and cussing at the thyroid, carrying banners saying "hormones will not replace us", setting the poor thyroid on fire and general going wild......you get the picture. So I started with a good laugh early in the morning to make my day. I know this is a serious matter and your estimation of doctors is bang on (and depicts the state of our "health care"). I needed that laugh (and that picture). Have a wonderful weekend.
True. It didn't make sense, glad you wrote -what you said :). Been eating a good diet, react to rhyroid meds but..have all thyroid symptoms--recently added neuropathy in feet.(15 months of no help w/ diagnosis, makes you crazy if you don't sleep too- and sleep meds cause jitters.)
I messaged the doctor Friday to up to 50. Sunday, I'm uncertain to even do 50mcg T4- with him. I could, push for Armor 30mg- a guess. But I'm guessing, and still w/o doctor help.)
You all know what to take, ask for and lucky you don't react to it.
(My D3 was 32 in Jan., taking 50kIU/week now. B12 721. Folate and Iron are middle range. I've become- too thin. It's because I'm feeling hopeless AND- not sleeping. So doctor thinks it's intermittent hyper symptoms- and he was going to give me PTU if T4 gives me jitters, (which I won't do)..may have to pass on him, but then I'm stuck again.
Serum Iron or ferritin? If it's ferritin - iron stores - it should be more than mid-range.
Could be the low vit D causing problems.
So doctor thinks it's intermittent hyper symptoms- and he was going to give me PTU if T4 gives me jitters, (which I won't do).
I dare say you do have intermittent hyper symptoms. That would be usual with Hashi's. But, PTU is absolutely not the right thing to take because you would become very hypo, very quickly.
Yes, I agree, I wrote that at first but shortened my message; actually I used the word intermittant he didnt say that, he only said he thought I was showing hyper symptoms when trying thyroid medication which seems rediculous but I am not able to handle thyroid t3 or t4t3 without feeling anxiousness.its that intermittent cell tissue breakdown which also can give me in range or subclinical blood tests but once it dies down, like you said, I'd become more hypo.
This was a paragraph on my post. (You may not have seen-)3.30 tsh, 1.09 free t4ng/dl, free t3 2.20 pg/ml,(2-4.4) B12 721, TPO202, TG 349 in Jan. My TPO was 177 last week...Folate 14.7 ng ml, Iron 92 ug /dl (iron saturation was 28%)
Hi greygoose, it was there1.09 ft4 (.90-1.70 was range I left out) Yes- I was diagnosed hashi in 2012, I went to an endo myself. I knew something was wrong having symptoms I didn't understand for years and hair loss, fatigue, food sensitivities, but normal TSH...so after 2012 got studying it even more. Here I am now. A mess this early am 7:30 here. Trying to write doctor on line, dont know what to tell him. He hasn't seen my long note about trying 50 mg Levoxyl yet. Don't know if I should push for Armour right now or try just, Levoxyl. Something tells me I'm not converting but I have no evidence except a low range T3. I got antibodies but they aren't like 800, if I take T3 as I've said, I get anxious, it could be circadian rhythm off or cortisol- all this not knowing what's going on inside the cells. I feel ok but Im sick every day with little, sleep induced by pills. I want to be out there its sunny day, but see myself stuck getting depressed with life. 15 months ago I lived ok even with Hashi symptoms.
I don't see any indication of poor conversion. Your FT3 is low - only 8.33% through the range - because you are hypo. As I said, you are hypo when the TSH getc to 3. But, your FT4 is low, too: 23.75% through the ranges. Euthyroid would be around 50%, but hypos usually need their FT4 up in the top third of the range.
I got antibodies but they aren't like 800,
Why 800? That's not the top of the TPO range, is it? The top of the range is usually something like 38. Your TPOab are 177, so you have Hashi's. They don't have to be massively high to show you have Hashi's. They fluctuate, anyway, so you can have no idea how high they can go. And, it doesn't matter anyway. Hashi's is Hashi's, no matter what the level of the antibodies. The level doesn't indicate anything to do with the severity of the disease, just tells you it's there.
Having said all that, your TSH is low considering the levels of your Frees. So, I'm wondering if there isn't also a pituitary problem. What's the highest your TSH has ever got, compared to your frees?
5.4 tsh Dec 19' 1.31ft4 1.59ft3(1.81-4.86 was this range)After that test I had trouble falling asleep that Jan. Feeling I wasn't breathing well. Just felt weak and stressed with new neuropathy issues.
I had 3.49 in emergency room that Jan.
I've had 4.2, 4.5 or 2.99... goes a little high or lowers, depending in time of day.
In that the pituitary isn't producing enough TSH to stimulate the thyroid to make hormone. This could be for several reasons: head injury of some sort, a period of excessive bleeding, a benign tumour. Or, it could be that the hypothalamus isn't stimulating the pituitary to produce the TSH. But, in any case, if there's not enough TSH being produced, the thyroid can't make enough hormone to keep you well, even without the Hashi's.
When the problem is with the pituitary or the hypothalamus, we call it Central Hypo.
GG, good morning/ afternoon..Re: pituitary no head injuries, confused about hypothalamus to test that- but- Did you see my other Reply to you asking: highest my TSH got to Frees? TSH was 5.4 Dec 19' 1.31 FT4 /1.59FT3 (1.81-4.86 was this range)
I tried Armour 15mg for about a month in Oct/Nov before Dec. But stopped. Wish I had continued but had no doctor. After that Dec. bloodtest, my trouble started --not falling asleep in Jan. 20' as I still am not, now. It felt I wasn't breathing ok, lungs felt weak and stressed and I couldn't stand without feeling weighted down in my apartment. That symptom was a mild feet /toe tingling in May 2019. By Jan 20' my new neuropathy issues hurt my body, standing on hard floor indoors but- outside or at stores, I could stand easier-I have scoliosis another hypo symptom but wasn't botheting me. I can't- stand long, inside, like atmospheric pressure is pushing on top of me. I go outside, walk on the pavement, its better. A weird symptom Nobody understands.
I had 3.49 TSH in emergency room that Jan. 2020' to check my breathing/ lungs. My g. friend thought I had anxiety. That started sleep drugs that led to a fall on stairs and hip surgery (3 screws.) I recovered during Covid. March-July. 20'
I've had TSH 4.2, at times, then 2.99... It goes a little high or lowers, depending time of day.
(You can see I'm just not "showing" hypothyroidism, I just have Hashimotos) I got heavy symptoms for decades and got neuropathy out of the blue. Then I read: "Peripheral neuropathy may be caused by severe, long-term, untreated hypothyroidism. Although the association between hypothyroidism and peripheral neuropathy isn't fully understood, it's known that hypothyroidism can cause fluid retention resulting in swollen tissues that exert pressure on peripheral nerves." That and, other symptoms made me feel I am severe hypo. Yet meds were reacting poorly so I can't be?
I'm waiting to check a Reverse T3 test results.
The GP doctor put in my prescription for 50mcg Levoxyl yesterday, upped the 25. But said he still thought I should go slow with 25 at first.
I am afraid now to take the T4 only. I know Hashi people felt bad on it, Paul Robbinson, etc. But I felt bad, and got burning mouth, sore, dry eyes, on trying 37.5mcg Synthroid a week, and before SYN, T4T3 20mcg/4mcg compound- last Dec.
I see myself breaking/ trapped-tired of looking for help. Been living mostly lying down for 15 months. With medication, slept 3-4 hours, woke as always exactly 3a.m.
They tend not to test the hypothalamus. Even if it is the hypothalamus at fault, it can't be treated. You just have to treat the resulting hypo, as with the pituitary. Central Hypo is just treated like any other form of hypo. The difficulty is, getting it diagnosed n a medical community that is obsessed with the TSH.
Did you see my other Reply to you asking: highest my TSH got to Frees? TSH was 5.4 Dec 19' 1.31 FT4 /1.59FT3 (1.81-4.86 was this range)
Yes, I saw it. It just confirmed my suspicion that your problems are due to Central Hypo.
Nobody understands.
I don't understand, but I can imagine.
It goes a little high or lowers, depending time of day.
TSH levels always depend on the time of day. It's highest early morning, and drops throughout the morning, and is it's lowest at 12 noon. Then starts rising again. That's why we always recommend getting tested before 9 am. It drops sharply after that.
Yet meds were reacting poorly so I can't be?
Doesn't follow. To be able to benefit from exogenous hormone, all your ducks need to be in a row: optimal nutrients and cortisol.
I'm waiting to check a Reverse T3 test results.
Pointless. rT3 tests don't give you any information that you can't get elsewhere.
There are many, many causes of high rT3, but none of them have anything to do with thyroid. And that is when your FT4 is very high in range/over-range. Which isn't your case.
rT3 doesn't cause problems, anyway.
I know Hashi people felt bad on it
Not all Hashi's people. Some do very well on it. You might be one of the lucky ones. But why don't you just go back on NDT?
With medication, slept 3-4 hours, woke as always exactly 3a.m.
That sounds like adrenal fatigue. Can you get a 24 hour saliva cortisol test? Have you ever had a cortisol blood test?
Oh, yes, that's true. Difficult to sort one from the other when they're all on top of each other like that. A clearer layout would be:
7A.m. 11.5ugdl (6-18.4)
4:30pm 6.8. (2.7-10.5)
Also did ACTH test am 23 pgml (7.2-63pgml)
ACTH pm 8.3 (7.2-63pgml)
OK, so that's not exactly a 24 hour test, is it. And, your 7 am result is less than 50% when it should be nearer the top of the range. The 4.30 results is higher in range than the 7 am. So, around 10/11 pm, it could be even higher. And that would be what affects your sleep.
Cortisol is supposed to be at its highest early moring, to get you out of bed and started on your day. If the adrenals don't manage to meet their quota, they keep trying throughout the day until they do, which is likely to be at bedtime.
The medical fraternity don't recognise adrenal fatigue. They say adrenals can't get fatigued! But that is just playing with words. The fact is, they do slow down when they've been over-worked for a long time. But, for a doctor, you either have Addison's or there's nothing wrong with you! Which is rather a short-sighted view of things, but still. We sufferers know that there is something wrong with you if you don't have optimal cortisol. And, I would say your cortisol is not optimal, and that could be why you have difficulty with thyroid hormone replacement.
Ah...yes. I think this helps explain every day for years I feel calmer, good, after 6pm on. Then...I can get sleepy at 8pm..actually doze off w/o meds but wake soon after. I agree on how to space things better and, know about adrenal fatigue when books came out 22 years ago..I felt I have it. Paul Robinson took T3 to even out. I wrote him..
Even 5 mcg slow releaseT3 makes me wired..
Ps...also GG, thanks, for answering (my really long-messages!).
I'm trying to understand that too. I do produce TSH.. (I also tried NP ndt and then, tried Syn. in Aug 20'. TSH went to 2.64. FT4 was 1.26 FT3 was 2.5.
I could-take Armour- this doctor is who says its unreliable- so I asked for 50mcg of Levoxyl. But I still don't know what's better-you say I may be lucky in T4. I was wired on tt4t3- dry sore, eyes, tingling in fingers on only 20/4mcg. I doubled it sometimes took 2. I did it all wrong self dosing, tried LDN- a fiasco for me. Wired me bad.
I feel light headed, cold all the time.. My hands and lips are tingling now I'm sensitive to touching cold things, circadian, adrenals off, shaking, trembling as I type.. LOL
But body's blood tests are in range, maybe not-high. And when outside I'm better.
Ready to drive to Ca. For a doctor. But its Covid. What to do...experiment or fade away...need something to get me over the hump, too exhausted to cook, stand up inside, to blend nutrition drinks! I thought--thyroid hormones. I have only half a thyroid, as mentioned. I have all the tight stuff for hypo but..
Sorry for typos. I was a kid with a little bump my family MD felt it, sent my mom to a surgeon who of course removed it-he said he only took aittle bit, and I didn't need medication, gave me radiation for the scar? (Sure)...so decades later in 2012 an endochrine said I had only 1/2 a thyroid, (I never knew). And diagnosed me with Hashi.
Unfortunately, most doctors have never even heard of Central Hypo, which is why I said the difficulty is getting diagnosed. But, as you have Hashi's, you should be diagnosed on the basis of that alone.
Yes, I understand. on Hashis. ( on CH I am- reading about it now, there's a lot, to it. CH person has a normal thyroid otherwise, and no antibody levels, ? etc. I will read more on CH..) and I guess your view is I could try the 50mcgT4 script, or not, or get Armour or not.
Meantime..This is all about me...Thanks. How are you are doing. Your day is almost done..
Hi, GG...Regarding CH again that, you think I could have, but I have partial thyroidectomy and antibodies.. CHers don't have antibodies. I ask again because my tests are just so normal, FT3... declines:1.31 1.15, 1.09. maybe due to not eating, much not sleeping...new tests done week ago at 12:30pm
No, Central Hypo doesn't cause antibodies, but there's no reason why you can't have both Hashi's and CH.
I ask again because my tests are just so normal
Not what I call normal. A TSH over 3 is hypo. A 'normal' TSH - euthyroid - is around 1. Never over 2.
FT3... declines:1.31 1.15, 1.09. maybe due to not eating, much not sleeping...
Maybe due to many things, but the point is, whatever the levels of your Frees, your TSH should reflect them.
FreeT3 .87 (.59-1.57 ngdl)
28.57%
Freet3. 2.71 pgml (2-3.46) 42.26%
You've given me two FT3s, there. Which one is FT4?
In any case, look at the percentages through the range. Neither of those are 'normal'. Euthyroid Frees are both around the 50% mark. But, once again, the TSH should reflect those levels, and yours doesn't. Once would expect it to be higher with those Free levels.
That's what Central Hypo is:
Low TSH
Low Frees.
But, that's just my opinion. Others might disagree.
Also, I'm not doing good (yesterday or today)-I'm now reacting to sleep meds giving me extreme jitters, (mirtazapine or lunesta,). I have to stop these meds and no sleep cycle-15 months would depress anyone. I need the ER but they can't help me. This is invisible. I'm not eating a lot because too weak to get food today, cook my veggies, meat, etc. I didn't start the (50mg you said), T4 yet -being I'm so weak, not sleeping?
But I wonder if it would help to (just take, it!) Like today, now. To give me hope to get up to cook, eat. T3 helps people more quickly, its fast acting. I tried in Dec., 5mcg T3 slow release only, and- I got jittery or anxious trying it. I also have T4T3 slow release 20/4mcg I mentioned I self- tried in Dec. Got jittery, dry eyes, tingle in fingers...
What could that mean in my case? With Levoxyl T4, now, am I just doing same, w/o the added SRT3? I won't feel the T4 (whether its good, or bad reactions) for what-
days- weeks? And could it cause hyper jitters for me...
Im reading your reply now-but adding a side note from your other reply:
I hear you on your CH answer,---makes sense, I'm not as good as you are knowing thru ranges percentages that its 50% but, listening to your expertise. Innately though, I need to bec1.0 TSH "I, feel" LOL
Ok....read it. Smoother ride, You said. so I could take one now..pharmacy is across the street. Its 10:15am now- is it ok to take it now ? I have not eaten... an empty stomach.( you may be saving my life...or, I will react big time now or in a couple days...)
Took it. 10:44. You got me to make a decision, ..out of bed,.. and over to the pharmacy- grocery store acroos the street. I'm not doing Armour then. Your remarks decided me. I self- tried T3 NDT, T4T3 only short time but had such reactions! maybe you are right I don't need-to take T3 but always thought I do, because my T3 is always so low range. I also tried Synthroid twice for 8 days, 25-37.5 mcg, felt awful - got dry-sore eyes bad, got burning mouth? the second time.
Btw-- the doctor put prescription in for only 15 tablets he's implying I should divide in half take 25 not 50 but I can refill three times or I'll tell him in two weeks. He said he would test me in 4 weeks so before 6 weeks--he's actually a nice guy but we've talked about him; you made fun of his antibody remark.
We cannot know if you need T3 until your TSH comes down to at least one, if not lower. Your FT3 is low, but then so is your FT4. You cannot expect to have a high FT3 if your FT4 is low.
Just staying on Synthroid for 8 days will tell you nothing. But, it does sound like you had a reaction to the fillers in the tablet - I don't think the T4 itself would do that to you.
No, be fair, I didn't make fun of your doctor's antibody remark. I said he was wrong, because there's no reason why you shouldn't take 50 mcg just because you have antibodies. There's no connection. But, that remark does show a certain lack of knowledge where thyroid is concerned.
I understand. Truthfully...I don't feel he, or my other doctors in past or now including a functional doc., can figure me out so I feel so on my own.
GG, I feel everything right away. Even vitamins. I react to all meds. Its now almost 1 1/2hours and I feel -this. Feel a little dizzy,light headed. Some mouth sensation,burn, heart feels faster. My eyes feel dryer, and sore now. I didnt feel this at all, now I do.,.. its doing something..I know its hard- believing me. I went through these reactions before in Dec/Jan . Eyes really dried. I had to use eye drops...
It's not hard believing you, but I still think it's the fillers in the tablet, not the hormone. T4 would not give a reaction so fast. It will still probably be in your gut, not even your blood yet.
You say you react to all meds, but all tablets have fillers, so it could be those every time that you react to. Have you ever taken any sort of hormones before?
No...except experimenting those thyroid combos last Dec Jan...Tried Armour for couple weeks Nov 19' had reaction but less than this Dec
( not related to thyroid meds but functional doctor wanted me to do some bio hormones first so I tried bioidentical 100mg progesterone and a very little estridiol estrogen patch for a few weeks but stopped it when trying T4T3 in Dec in case itvinterferred)
Well, I was thinking more about tablets, than patches. Unfortunately, we can't get thyroid hormones in patches. Would save a hell of a lot of trouble if we could!
I just brought those, because u said, any sort hormones. It was so short.
So.. this dry-eye dizzy, heart race stuff, what do you think..I read how little t4 there is in these pills..and taking 25mcg does me no good, will react too.
Do I put up with really dry eyes or jitters if thatchappens again.
GG, Feels better now.. I ate a sand which and came back to the store. LOL.. hope I didnt scare you off. I talked to the pharmacist. She thought, it was my body reacting to the medication rather than necessarily to the fillers. That even though it does take time for adjustment, for the T4 to level off in the body over longer term, im still feeling it now, the T4 is still binding to receptors. not just the thyroid but other parts of the body, and if I feel it a lot, not used to it..so I could, take half for a few days and when more adjusted to it, then bump it up.
Well, there's not much there I agree with. At the time you were first complaining about side-effects, the hormone wasn't even in the body. So, unlikely to be that. And, you can't feel T4 binding to receptors. And the hormone tends to float around in the blood for quite a while before it gets around to attaching to receptors. And, it doesn't go to the thyroid. The thyroid is to make hormone, not receive it. And, you are used to T4 because your thyroid has been making some - otherwise, you'd be dead!
But, you could try taking half, see what happens. Only trouble is, that is likely to make you worse, rather than better, because the TSH will drop - it's not very high to begin with - which means that your thyroid will stop its hormone production, and you could end up with less hormone in your body rather than more. But, you could try it.
So, all in all, I don't agree with your pharmacist - they don't tend to know much about hormones, in my experience, they know about drugs. I still say it's the fillers, not the T4.
Ok..I hear what yiu re saying...I wat to stick to 50mcg... I wondered what you were going to say about what she said remember I don't know a lot here yet
Sorry,,typos. (Meant) I wanted I stick with 50mcg for the reasons you stated. So before you go to bed, thanks,... ZzzzzSleep well.I do feel, better. Just dizzy, feel the heart pumping fast and dry eyes. lol Will try to relax..
Good evening..for you. After, noon. I do like yoga. Hope to get better, and do it, even a little.I felt ok, this am. But woke be for 3am. I felt, more alive. Inside my body. Maybe it was energy. Now have racing inside chest--very, much. Short breath. (Sleep medication I take or withdrawal of one med. can be contributing a little.)
I can walk, but can't move around a lot, exercise, because I've stayed a lot in bed for a year plus.
- I know its better to take it always, same time. I took 50mcg. 4:45am. Yesterday was 10:40. I don't know yet, when to take it because my sleep is so unpredictable. (I saw some info re: TSH and T4 and T3 production tops around 3am and is lowest around 3pm in the afternoon, and taking it near these times as early, or late as can, can benifit)
Can I change time I take the T4, for right now? I follow other rules.
As far as I know, there are no rules when you should take it. Take it when it's most convenient for you. And, I really don't think it matters if you don't take it at the same time every day. Take it when you like, as long as your stomach is empty, and you can wait at least an hour before eating, etc.
What about this, racing feeling in my chest...GG. Its heavy duty. Could this be, anything else, besides fillers I would think, and something to watch for. May as well be doing straight T3, thats faster than waiting weeks for T4. (kidding but serious.) I feel ok, like I said, more awake, alert, But its just concerning.
Its evening for you again. GG, I have to say this, I felt like a real person who made a decision going to get in take the T4. Felt normal for an hour. Then the side effects. Every decision I make doesn't let up. Then, it worsens me. I took 25mcg,
Well, instead of 3am. Fell back asleep to 4:20- you said would help sleep...I took 1/2 (25mcg) bec of chest racing yesterday & thought I can take the other 25 at 3 p.m. today,?
or do 25 a few days. I don't think this- doctor can help me with this GG, he will say I'm hyper and try that medication. So I'm seeing a female doctor her blood work but she has no time for me. I'm really on my own. You help, you have a lot of followers...
Yes, you can take the other 25 mcg at 3 pm. As I said before, you can take it whenever you like, on condition that your stomach is empty, etc. A lot of people find that splitting their levo helps them a lot.
Taking 25 mcg for a few days is also an option, then going up to 50. It's all trial and error, always is.
Better add, feel very fatigued.. and body aches. I was walking early, its warm out, not eating a lot, and only 4 HR sleep. Trying to take T4 with very unoptimal body condition sleep meds, a year plus being sedentary. (But I was in shape before.) Did I mention I'm very thin, getting to store or restaurant wiuld help, too tired:?
Do be careful not to over-do things. Your T3 is too low to sustain much activity. Try eating little but often. I understand you don't want big meals, but you must eat. Can you get food or groceries delivered?
Hi, I haven't set that up, do have friend or two or one cousin who wants to bring food, but don't bother them often. Easier to get myself to pick out what I need, Hashis (all veggies fruit chicken turkey liver, etc) though cheat with turkey restaurant sandwhiches next door. healthy but gluten
Yes, I know I've tried different things I think I react and don't react to gluten and dairy I'm trying it both ways as have the past omitting or bringing back different foods. What are your thoughts about my symptoms today? Should I better stick to just 25 not 50 right?
Good morning/afternoon GG. Yiu say these are hypo symptoms how I want to believe that.
A few more days? Then what stop anyway and do what? What then..
I woke with chest pain on left side, it went away quick enough but now chest just hurts. Have some, palps. headache, aching everywhere. Mouth burning, eyes all sore swollen a bit. Just lying here really bummed. So I just wrote an update post -no reason- to keep mind off this. With two reverse T3 tests, added.
I haven't taken the T4 yet today. Its 7:30am. I was going to lay off today. Guess I'm a quitter. :(. Then I thought- write doctor, ask him for Armour. I can react to that too, if T3 bothers me. I have SRelease T3 capsules still here from trying before.
Or, I could take 50mcg T4 now again. To see if I can feel even worse!! If-- I go by what people say here to do.
With these symptoms, I read its a hyper reaction- to tell doctor, to be careful. Do I disregard? And do 50mcg. ?
..I keep fighting this body's resistance to medication ( when I was self dosing Nov/Dec/). I want to get well! When I had hope I bounced up and can move even in pain. I just needed reassurance but I have no patience if I'm guessing and harming myself.
Yiu say these are hypo symptoms how I want to believe that.
I think they are, yes. What do you think they are?
A few more days? Then what stop anyway and do what? What then..
Then increase to 50 mcg. You can't stop. You cannot live without thyroid hormone. Thyroid hormone replacement is for life.
With two reverse T3 tests, added.
Why? rT3 tests are not going to tell you anything you don't already know. They can tell you if your rT3 is high, but they can't tell you why. And, there are many, many reasons for high rT3.
Then I thought- write doctor, ask him for Armour.
Why not ask him for liquid T4, see if that is easier for you to take without the fillers that a tablet has.
With these symptoms, I read its a hyper reaction
How can you have a hyper reaction when you are so hypo? Hypo and hyper symptoms cross over, which is why we need labs to confirm.
I keep fighting this body's resistance to medication
I've never heard of anyone's body being resistant to thyroid hormone in the way you mean. Resistance to Thyroid Hormone is - apparently - a rare condition with which the hormone doesn't get into the cells, so you stay hypo. If that's what you have, then your symptoms are hypo. You could only become 'hyper' (over-medicated) if the hormone was getting into the cells. Two entirely different problems. Labs would tell you more.
But, this thread has got long and complicated, and I can no-longer find my way around it to review you labs. So, could you possibly recap for me, please. I need results and ranges for:
Reverse T3 22.6 (9.2-24.1) at 9a.m.15.5 ng/dl. At 1pm testing
Doesn't matter what time rT3 is tested. Doesn't make it any more useful. It's going to vary, anyway. But, the problem here is, that it doesn't correspond to any of your other results. When were these done? Were they done in isolation? rT3 should be tested at the same time as FT4, if you're going to do it at all. Without the FT4 results, we cannot know if it's anything to do with thyroid hormone replacement, or totally unconnected. I suspect it's totally unconnected, because I can't see any FT4 result high enough to cause that 22.6 result.
TSH 3.30. April 7
So, what time was this blood draw? And what are the FT4 and FT3 results that go with it?
All three results - four if you do rT3 - have to be looked at in connection with each other, not in isolation.
As I said before (I think) a TSH over 3 is hypo.
Different lab: 3.24 but tested it 1pm
T4 1.09 t4ng/90-1.701April
23.75% through the range - very low.
Different lab: FT4 .89 .59- (.58-1 5
) 33.7% and 1.09% !!!!!!!!!!! The variations aren't surprising given that you have Hashi's. But the 1.09% is very, very low. And, what is important is: what was the TSH level that went with that result?
T3 2.20 pg/ml. ( 2.0-4.4)
8.33% very, very low.
Different lab: FT3 2.71 (2.03-3.06
) Are you sure about that range? It's very narrow, but would make your FT3 42.68%, which is better, but still too low. What were the TSH and FT4 results that went with this result? When was it done?
B12 721,
Good.
Older: January 2020' tests:
TPO 202,
TG 349
(My TP0 is 177 now)
Doesn't matter that it's gone down - no point in even retesting - because once you have an over-range result, you have Hashi's and it doesn't go away. Antibodies fluctuate all the time, and their level is not an indication of the seriousness - or otherwise - of your disease.
Folate 14.7 ng ml, (>4.5ng/ml) Good.
Transferring 255 mg/dl
Iron 92 ug /dl
iron saturation was 28%.
I don't know anything about iron tests other than ferritin, but that iron saturation looks low. What did your doctors say about it?
(I suspect it's totally unconnected, because I can't see any FT4 result high enough to cause that 22.6 result.)
I took this test at 9am then drove to hospital and they drew blood same day. T4 was .89 T3 was 2.71 and TSH was 3:24 at about 12:30pm to be more exact. My doctors nurse called lab corp and they ADDED a rT3 test to the hospitals blood sample thinking my 9am test got lost. This many days later! They still had my blood for other tests. this she-doctor a friends referral, ran on me. I saw her hoping to get help (before my GP doctor would prescribe the T4.)
(Are you sure about this range, re t3)
I know. Its on my doctor's portal. Makes no sense. I could callvlabcorp but range for pgml has always been: 2.0-4.4 pgml
Your rT3 isn't over-range, just high in-range. But, nothing to do with thyroid. Stupid test. Did the nurse know how to interpret it when it came back? lol
And, the thing that stands out most from your labs is that your TSH readings never correspond to your Free results. So, we come back to my theory that as well as having Hashi's, you have Central Hypo. Your TSH is too low for your Free results.
And, the thing about Central Hypo is - well, two things, really - one is that TSH readings are useless for you to dose by. Just ignore them. Don't ever let doctor dose you by TSH, because that would keep you sick.
Second thing is, the pituitary, that produces TSH, also produces a lot of other hormones, which could also be low. So, seems to me that the next step in your quest for good health, should be getting a few cortisol readings. I don't know what's possible where you are, but the 24 hour cortisol saliva test would be my choice. Failing that, start with an 8 am serum cortisol test. If that's low, that could be causing problems, and could back up my theory of CH. That's what I would do, anyway.
The doctor's nurse had me do it: she said l was ok, fir pm that low, low is ok in the pm. But when she saw my p.m. test she made me go back to do the ACTH in the morning to check my am reading. and I guess she must think it's okay
Well, I would question how much she actually knows about it. My guess is, not much. But, not much you can do about it now. But, get retested from time to time, if you can.
Answer to this why bother ACTH more..I got--adrenal fatigue I know it. Cortisol spikes though at 3 am I will bet. And not show up in saliva anyway because? My tests never, prove anything so sick if them!! LoL
I just sent you a different reply before this one-- that basically said this....re your reply lol .. on the CH remarks etc. Trying to U (understand) so I feel confident taking T4. Reason being ...
ACTH is a pituitary hormone. If you have a problem with your pituitary, the ACTH could be low - like your TSH - and not stimulating the adrenals to make cortisol correctly - like your TSH is not stimulating your thyroid to make thyroid hormone. Technically, I would say it's a more informative test than the ATCH stimulation test - but perhaps it depends what you're looking for.
on the CH remarks etc. Trying to U (understand) so I feel confident taking T4. Reason being ...
Even if your main problem stems from the pituitary, you still need to take thyroid hormone replacement - that's the only treatment for hypothyroidism whatever it's cause. There is no way of treating the pituitary.
I'm trying to follow this reply a little more. I hate to have to go do a saliva test... I tried A functional doctor here...saw twice. He gave me NP to try last Aug. Didnt work-- got jitters, but my NP was recalled anyway. He wanted to work an all body approach on minerals and my gut, first, but I wanted to concentrate on thyroid. I've been through the Elimination Diet "thing" and know all about gluten free and dairy-free etc etc, and everything else you said about how not everyone needs to do it: I'm on the same page as you. I know about it all. Studying this, for years. I've tried things over the years I'm just stuck now bec not sleeping. Minor issues: hair loss, dry skin, thin, neuropathy in feet etc. Kidding its all bad lol...But I called this doctor, few weeks ago - again I was desperate...he said he wants to give me a cortrsyn ? shot in their office, then retest my blood half hour before, after it. I looked this up its a ACTH Stimulation test? Do you know that test? Doctors dont do it..anymore? Just do ACTH. Functionals do saliva. Then what ? I innately assumed my cortisol is off, have adrenal fatigue for 15 years all day cuz feel better at 6pm-10pm.....now I can't just fall asleep, get sleepy at 8pm. awake at 10 if not careful to go to bed.
doing T4 but ..waking up earlier now 2 not 3am.. mentioned chest pain, you saw that?
Well, I was just trying to see if there was something you hadn't covered.
I looked this up its a ACTH Stimulation test? Do you know that test?
I know of it. I've never had it. It's to see how your adrenals respond to stimulation. And, anything in-range will be considered perfect. It doesn't show up adrenal fatigue, only if the adrenals are capable of working.
I innately assumed my cortisol is off, have adrenal fatigue for 15 years all day cuz feel better at 6pm-10pm.....now I can't just fall asleep, get sleepy at 8pm. awake at 10 if not careful to go to bed.
That sounds like adrenal fatigue, yes. But, as your cortisol levels are not bad enough to warrant taking HydroCortisone, there's not an awful lot you can do about it, except cosset them a little. I presume you've tried things like Adrenavive?
Adrenals like lots of rest - obviously - and B vits, and lots and lots of vit C. And salt. And good protein first thing in the morning. What you need to do is raise the cortisol production in the morning, and the rest of the day will take care of itself.
mentioned chest pain, you saw that?
Yes, I saw that. Could be due to all sorts of things, not necessarily your heart. Indigestion, for example. Have you tested your stomach acid level?
Hi..just s I you know when I said "I know about it all" it meant: Im in agreement with you... on the same page not to take, that I know it all! Dont need to be told! LOL
and still want you to of course, bring up anything- because you don't know what I know
You followed it, though? I just sent a long reply (we cross paths) for you to respond... and it getting late for you.
You can tomorrow.
Q: How did you decide-- to get on T3 and off whatever you took? And why. What all did you try, before. And figured it out for yourself. How nuch do you take and what times a day...
I was meaning to ask you this if you want to tell me...
I'm still taking 75 mcg T3 only, at the moment, and I take it when I get up. And that can be just about any time! And, the reason I take it in the morning is that I have a hypothyroid dog. He has to take his levo in a divided dose - half in the morning and half in the evening. By taking it in the morning, at the same time as him, we wait out that hour together, and he doesn't have to suffer watching me eat my breakfast when he can't have his. And that's the only reason.
I had a reply to send you, a good one but something else came up, in early am reading; I wasn't sleeping, and now its stuck "in my mind".
I'm being concerned doing T4. And know it's not good being anxious- so sending this over to hear your thought.
You do, T3 instead. And I have thought, how with more and more research for us non- euthyroid people, T4 isn't the answer for artificial hormones..T4 is easier to take but is it the best option. I'm just a little hung up on it after reading the cancer link and heart link below. I'm sorry, I'm being this way it just made me feel stuck...
I've read Tania Smith's articles several times before and I casually went to;
(But, my--question is on the below-link! about how high or normal levels of T4. (high-normal Free T4 presents relatively more cancer risk than low-normal Free T4)... RT3 can also be a host in this. Thought, I have low T4 already, am CH, so need replacement; and it's almost like T3 therapy which reduces levels of T4 is a blessing in disguise therapy for noneuthyroid persons...check this link below if you can, to see what she says?
I'm a little confused, here. Are you asking a question? Or just giving information? Or is your question 'is levo the best form of thyroid hormone replacement?'
Yes, I've heard all this before. The link between rT3 and cancer. And the first thing that comes to my mind is: if doctors understood thyroid hormones better, it wouldn't be necessary to take so much T4 that it converts to excess rT3. They would prescribe T4+T3 or NDT.
Taking some levo does have advantages in that you have a back-up. Should you forget to take your T3, or run-out, or some other problem crops up, you have a store of T4 just waiting to be converted into T3.
Also, it has to be said, that although we say T4 is a storage hormone, nobody really know if it has other functions on top. A lot of speculation, but no real answers. And, a lot of people find they do need a certain level of FT4, along with their good levels of FT3, to feel well. That's not true of everybody, but it is of a lot of people.
Now, what worries me about this article, as much as I admire Tanya Smith, is that she doesn't say anything about levels of rT3 or FT4. How much is too much? When taking levo, a certain amount - about 20%, I believe - will always be converted to rT3. Is that acceptable - as far as the cancer risk goes - or not?
Also, she says nothing about all the other causes of high rT3 - which can be hard to pin down or avoid. Are they a cancer risk, too?
And, above all, is the cancer risk of people taking levo greater than those not taking it? I'm afraid I haven't read it really closely - impaired concentration at the moment - but it did raise more questions than it answered.
One of those questions being: what else are you going to do? If you are hypo, you need thyroid hormone replacement of some kind. And, not all forms suit everybody. I don't feel well if I take any levo, personally. And NDT made me very ill. But, many, many people do very well on levo. We just have to find out what's right for us.
(Even my Endocrine who diagnosed my Hashis in 2012, brought up it could cause heart problems or osteoporosis.)
Yes, but I very much doubt he was talking about the same thing! I don't suppose very many endos have read research into levo and cancer! My guess is that he was talking about levo lowering the TSH, and that he believed what a lot of doctors believe, that a low TSH causes heart problems and/or osteoporosis. It doesn't. I think that's another story entirely.
Yes, I was, asking questions. that's right. I was feeling doubtful to use T4 or increase T4. Those links were just to show you what I read- that bothered me. I got hung up and needed reassurance to feel good about what I was doing, acclimate my body to T4 but its not good for me in long run? Am I on T4 only because a doctor will prescribe it and its easier to take? I understand, your reply, its about what will work, but if there's a choice, making myself susceptible to cancer cell modification and heart problems isn't good. Makes it sound like it's a good thing she's on T3 and not others, so I should try it, first. Or be doing NDT..t4t3 and-you're lucky to take T3. Then she writes about comparing it to being in a wheelchair when doingT3 only instead of using a Cane for T4 only. Mixed messages there.
I got hung up and needed reassurance to feel good about what I was doing, acclimate my body to T4 but its not good for me in long run?
That's not what she said. She was talking about levels of FT4 high enough to cause excess rT3 - at least, that's what I understood her to be saying. Not just taking levo per se. Thousands and thousands of people take levo and do well on it, and never develop cancer.
I understand, your reply, its about what will work, but if there's a choice, making myself susceptible to cancer cell modification and heart problems isn't good.
No, you've misunderstood. It's not the fact of taking levo that causes problems, it's taking too much. And, for it to affect your heart, it would have to all convert to T3.
This myth of a low TSH causing heart and bone problems arose from doctors lack of understanding of how thyroid works. The fact is that people with Graves, who have a very, very high FT3 level - and therefore a suppressed TSH - have a greater risk of heart and bone problems. But, it is only a risk, not a certainty.
And, due to their lack of knowledge and understanding, for some reason they took the increased risk to be due to the low TSH, when in fact, the problem was the very high FT3.
Taking exogenous hormone is entirely different, and does not have the same effects. Besides, who would possibly want to take so much levo that it gave them FT3 levels similar to people with Graves? It's unthinkable.
Makes it sound like it's a good thing she's on T3 and not others, so I should try it, first.
I thought you tried it and it didn't suit you. I can't imagine you'd find a doctor willing to prescribe T3 only without having given levo a good trial first. That's not how they work.
Then she writes about comparing it to being in a wheelchair when doingT3 only instead of using a Cane for T4 only. Mixed messages there.
No, not at all. It's just that she's aware that some people - like me - can only function on T3 only. Levo makes us worse.
I think you're getting this all out of proportion. And, it's a shame that you came across Tanya Smith before you'd fully understood the basics. She's not for beginners!
Thank you for handling me on this... I don't know whats wrong with me today!! I was going to report all is good, better coping with jitters...Instead I am on a tangent I know. I've done a lot of research and of course there's things I still don't know but I can follow pretty good and I think I just got caught up in something here that I have a Q&A about, may be missing some facts and hearing others.
But to what you just said I actually do understand things she said. And understood about graves disease and taking T3 and not at all, causing heart and bone problems that is a misconception. That part doesn't bother me.
Its just about inducing normal to high T4 levels maintained by prescribing a T4 only medication to produce norm to high T4 in range. The other answers you gave me, I see what you mean. And realize I just scanned this article and didnt get the whole gist of article? ..I realize now normal or a high T4 with T4 medication doesn't mean high, high T4 and high rt3..? but I swear she said some things implying lowering T4 levels is being researched for over all better health
if you read her article on the cancer not the heart, ... I don't want to put it all here but she actually said I thought...by reducing a person to a little bit to hypothyroid state and given T3, they improved. I can't find it right now...
It also said for cancer patients:
.....Hercbergs and team’s recent preclinical study, cancer patients who were beyond all hope were able to extend their survival by significantly reducing their circulating T4 hormone and also the variable RT3 concentrations that it brings.
They replaced these hormones with synthetic T3 hormone, which provides the active form of thyroid hormone that can maintain life and health even in the absence of T4....
..... turns out that T3 and T4 have different non-genomic signaling at this cell membrane receptor that are very significant to cancer because this receptor is highly expressed in cancers, and T4 signaling more directly affects cancer proliferation rates....
This was not Hercbergs’ first clinical trial employing the alteration of thyroid hormone levels in an attempt to alter the course of cancer (Hercbergs et al, 2003).
This science holds out significant hope, raising new questions about the potential applications:
.....If this degree of life extension was achieved in people whose cancer had progressed to a desperate stage by the time it was initiated, could this T4-reducing euthyroid therapy be used to extend life even more significantly in less aggressive or less advanced cancers?
What would happen if it were initiated earlier in the course of disease, rather than as a last resort?
Could the therapy significantly reduce cancer risk before a diagnosis in people whose families or genetics reveal a vulnerability?....
I took this as she's talking about future use of T3 on people who just have a genetics accessibility to cancer which I don't always buy that you'll get cancer easier if relative has it. But later on she talks about T3 being- almost like a preventive medication if we have to take either it seems, best to take T3. do you think that's true? I know a lot of people do well on levo you said
And to answer you I don't know how I would do on T3 anymore because I'm jittery Auntie for also and I can't remember was I more jittery on t43 Ortiz free only I only did both really short time.
Yes, she did say that about cancer patients. But that was people that already had cancer. That wasn't people whose high levels of T4 caused cancer.
I'm pretty sure that nowhere did she suggest that moderate levels of FT4 cause cancer. She was talking about levels of FT4 up near the top of the range, where it starts converting to more rT3 than T3. Which is why I said that if thyroid patients were treated properly - i.e. T4+T3, either synthetic or NDT - they wouldn't need to have their FT4 that high.
I got the impression that you thought just taking levo lead to cancer, which is not what she said at all, and you were questioning whether you should take it because of that. Forgive me if I misunderstood you.
But later on she talks about T3 being- almost like a preventive medication if we have to take either it seems, best to take T3. do you think that's true?
Not necessarily. I think that in an ideal world, we should be allowed to take what suits us best - people that self-treat already do that. Taking T3 only would not suit everybody, far from it. And some do better on synthetic than NDT. So, people should not be forced into an ill-fitting box by doctors that believe that one-size-fits-all, because it doesn't.
But, I don't think you should be scared of taking levo.
You will see this tomorrow...Yes, I was kind of thinking that. Thinking, normal or high levels of T4 using T4 medication could be unhealty-people talk about always raising their T4 level doses more to feel better but it doesn't work. But those people need something else, I assume. But I guess high is ok if in range and they feel, ok. I'll try, not to be scared taking Levo.
Thing is today..I'm nervous. Good, yesterday evening after we talked. Felt good going to grocery shop, get out. Today right now my eyes really hurt. Heck, I was up at 3am. I took T4 earlier. At 7 30am. Day before 10:30. Trying to understand why I feel so bad after one day good. Reactions to medication with eyes hurting. This feels really, bad today. Can changing my dosage cause this? 2 days 50, 3 days 25, now 2 days 50mcg.
I remember you said Levo is a smoother ride than taking T3 or both, Yesterday feeling good in the evening thought it would last today.
I felt together last night, first in a long time increasing from 25 back to 50. I just feel, jittery and achey and I keep thinking. I'm doing it wrong or, I can't tolerate T4 either? What are signs of not tolerating T4?
Can changing my dosage cause this? 2 days 50, 3 days 25, now 2 days 50mcg.
I don't know if it caused it, but it won't help to keep changing. In your place, I would have stayed on the 25 longer. But, now that you're on 50, try and stick to it for six weeks.
What are signs of not tolerating T4?
What did you feel.
It's not so much what I felt, as what I didn't feel: I didn't feel well. But, there were no specific symptoms. I explain all about that on my profile.
Also what did NDT feel like for you?
Oh, sick, sick, sick. Put on so much weight! But, once again, all that is on my profile.
people talk about always raising their T4 level doses more to feel better but it doesn't work.
It works up to a certain point. Provided you can convert that T4 to T3. But, you reach a point when the T4 converts to more rT3 than T3. At that point, what people need is T3 added to their levo.
Oh, sick, sick, sick. Put on so much weight! But, once again, all that is on my profile.
Hi...GG. So.. A bit ago I read your profile again, I had read it before but I but now knowing you, picked up details because I have less brain fog this a.m. I was too miserable yesterday and my car was knocking turning the wheel, had a pinion rack problem I found out, $1200 one place said at 6pm., and I can't drive it, it will break! But I bravely drove it to a little body shop, the owner was still there and he told me I could drive on it. And, he said it would cost $600-700 big difference and there was not a rush to fix it just get back to him. It scared my cousin he wanted to leave the car at the expensive shop because they told him it would break down. So it was a terrible day. I ate a cold chicken bean and rice bowl from Chipotle fast food restaurant; talked to my cousin again on the phone. He's down the street, my only real relative here in St Louis now. The rest are dispersed in California Florida Texas. And I haven't taken my T4 yet today. Ironically if I take it early am I feel miserable. But Tuesday when I took 50 not 25 at 9:40am. I felt- just- good afternoon and evening! My brain fog was gone. I got groceries and cooked veggies but the weird symptom (I can't stand inside but outside of here stand ok feel normal. ) I was in shape, exercised. Always slender? A Hypo who did not gain weight-maybe when 20, several pounds sure. Now I'm a "bag of bones wrapped in loose skin." lol That's your line on your profile. I really wanted to just quit this type of life yesterday driving to the shop I couldn't stand it anymore, I was so miserable, my eyes hurt so much, everyone walking around me being normal. And I'm aching painfully inside without relief for months and months 24/7. Covid makes this unbearable, I couldn't stand thinking to take any more T4. I ate my rice bowl, I talked to my cousin on cell, I went to bed totally exhausted- took Lunesta 2 mg and slept I think, from 11 to 4 something. That's just exhaustion, I lucked out. I normally sleep 3 hours on medication nothing more. I wake up eyes open exactly at 2-3am never 4.
Getting back to you-- your profile! Sorry.... well, I know about HGH, I was taking it for quite awhile, easier to get here or its just the supplement form not the injectable kind. And it's interesting how you went on to Armor and it worked quite a while then not and then you tried Thai NDT...then did the T3
And a lot of it.
Taking 100mcg and 20 mcg T3 at first time getting T3 from a doctor-- was that really twice a day? No wonder you wanted to bring your T4 down when you felt it was doing you no good if you were taking 200 + 40.
And all those doctors you saw and operations. 2? And hospital stays. I know about those back flies! A friend had them, I stayed at his condo when I first got pins and needles in my feet from being hypo, I felt is why. 2018, I bought a brick 1932 English Tudor house I couldn't stand in that either! So I finally sold it Jan 2020, the same month I had stopped sleeping. So 14 months now. I told you I broke my hip (on this friend's stairs.) 3 screws put in March. 2020.
Btw, yesterday? I was just hung up on Tania's stuff you straightened me out some. I was introvertimg, not on cancer or heart problems as much as taking T4 the wrong thing to get worse instead of better when I could have picked, risked, something else. I was looking too closely at wrong-information, there wasn't enough data there I needed. Like watching a sequel movie without seeing the first movie to follow it totally. But I still feel today, hesitant about taking T4 only. I always have except that Tuesday night was the best I felt in 7 days so I was getting confidence. T4 is hardly in my system but should be now 8 days. Also I saw my hair its worse than it was a week ago, brittle and scalp showing even more. I'm afraid I'm going to really mess up my body. Not be able to stand, take care of myself. Debating to drag myself to a GP endochrine $2,000.00 concierge doctor who takes insurance. A free meet and greet- he could give me a good referral or just look me over and if he is that good maybe? No.. I'm tired of the doctors here. Use that money for a functional doctor, just can't find even a naturpath or acupuncturist that sounds good.
Sorry to hear about your car. It's a bugger, isn't it!
I still think you're over-reacting to T4. It may not do you much good, in the long-run, but I doubt it will do you any harm.
Lots of hypos lose weight, we don't all put it on. Being thin can be as much of a hypo symptom as being fat! Except it isn't usually fat, it's water retention.
8 days is but the blink of an eye in thyroid terms. You have to wait at least two weeks before you can expect to feel much in the way of benefits.
What you were taking wasn't realy HGH. That doesn't come in tablets. It either comes in powder form that you have to mix with water and inject - that's the Chinese (or is it Russian? I forget) version. Or it's already a liquuid ready for injection. And, it has to be refrigerated at all times in its liquid state. But, they do sell pills that are supposed to 'support' the pituitary so that it produces more HGH. I tried two types, but neither of them worked.
Why do you want a functional doctor? I mean, I know they sound good, in theory. But, from all I've read on here, they really have no greater knowledge of thyroid than ordinary doctors. But they do have a lot of weird - and sometimes dangerous - ideas on the subject. I would never trust my thyroid with one of them! Even If I had a thyroid. lol Same goes of naturopaths.
And, acupuncture, whilst being a wonderful thing, cannot help your thyroid. Tried that, too. It only gives temporary relief from aches and pains.
No, if I had thousands to spend on a doctor, I'd go for an anti-aging doctor. Despite the stupid name, they do know their hormones!!!
I have been loosing weight since 2006 though. Loosing a lot, since 2018.My stomach bloats like a balloon..since 2001 probably. Looks really funny with thin. If I eat more carbohydrates fatty food, it really does get big and then goes down in the morning. Right now eating same food almost every day so shop same.
You are thinking I can wait weeks. I can't it's like Paul Robinson said, sometimes you have to get well faster than later because it's an emergency at least that's why he wrote his Patients Manual that I was going to get on Amazon to check out.
I can't move much in here and have to. You get to sleep. So-- fortunate! That makes 100% difference in a life. Makes you, live it. Not being stuck.
I could put up easily with neropathy. or Hashis and pain, now if I could have a normal waking day and any, sleep cycle too. Human beings are foolish most times, they have to experience everything in life, in order to understand it. I really do Now understand it. I know you understand a lot- too.
You are thinking I can wait weeks. I can't it's like Paul Robinson said, sometimes you have to get well faster than later because it's an emergency
Yes, but did he tell you how? Because with hormone, nothing moves fast. That's the question. We'd all like to get well fast!
As you have Hashi's, you've probably had it for a lot longer than you think. It takes time to even notice that there's something not quite right. It's insidious. It creeps up on us when we're not looking. And, your levels have probably been going up an down for a long time, but the andrenals have been taking up the slack. So, I'm not in the least surprised that you've been losing weight since 2006.
Morning/afternoon, GG..It seems others say you can't take
levo under tongue...or crush. I was watching a video on it, had pros and cons- I realize it's not a liquid like tirosint-sol. Shaws here wrote someone Dr.s say molecules too big. So to chew and dissolve is not- ok? A few others on healthunlocked said they chewed it and dissolve it in water and their levels were fine. Was thinking to try under tongue to avoid gut issues. might-- make me feel better, more absorption, more medication.
Yesterday I divided dose. Took less- 25mcg not feeling good, but took other 25 at 2:40... felt extreme exhaustion, aching, in my knees and back, aching everywhere. I had gone out was just driving and walking a bit in stores. Ate a little before, not hungry. Very depressed. Felt so terrible physically.. Turkey sandwich, bean soup at home. To bed, took med, 9:30 pm but couldn't fall asleep for hour. Lot of weird dreams..can't move. In bed 7:30am
I would agree that you can't take levo under the tongue. All that happens is it dissolves in your saliva and you swallow it. It doesn't go directly into the blood. But, in any case, it wouldn't do you any good if it did, because levo is attached to a sodium molecule to make it into a tablet, and you need the stomach acid to dissolve that sodium and free the hormone. Have we already discussed stomach acid?
I think you're probably lucky to fall asleep within an hour. For a lot of people, it takes longer than that. I like to watch a little TV before trying to sleep, because it gives me something to think about whilst I lie there, waiting for sleep. Or, if it's something boring, it sends me to sleep quicker.
Well, it's the sleep medication.. I can't go to sleep at all, (I've discussed my sudden sleep problem? Jan 2020, now 14 mo. the major thing making this so hard, not the neuropathy or Hashimotos, those are not great either. and...needing two molars on bottom replaced a dentist pulled in Oct. To chew easier would be good too ) I hope to be like you again as I did the same with the TV.. this medication knocks you out a few minutes after taking it but not last night.
Trouble sleeping is a hypo symptom. It should get better as your thyroid hormone levels rise. But, you've only been on it for such a short time, it's not surprising you haven't felt any improvements yet.
Know what you mean about the teeth, though! I've got very few left. At least you have better solutions for teeth in the US than we do in Europe. Things are improving here, but too late for me! Most of mine crumbled away a long time ago! Yes, it would be so good to be able to chew!
I wish-- you could get here, just for some implants! or a bridge but implants sound best, for you... Mexico has very affordable places that help you get there from Ca.
I have put off going to the dentist because of meds and hashi. Stressful. I have to go, to save more bone loss in lower. Plus it wrinkles face I see.. LoL
So you didn't say anything about all the aching. It is worse then I felt when experimenting t4t3SR? Some things are different, it's hard to compare with experiment with t4 synthroid. maybe I am less "hyper"(adrenals problem)
Can't tell if medications; neuropathy and sleep, cover effects. But I was on them before starting Levoxyl.
These symptoms of aching, not being able to move as I did 9 days ago: do some feel this awful? The pharmacist said she hadn't heard this from anyone. I know people don't feel better for a long time that's different. I'm trying to see if I can't tolerate this medicine some can't -you can't. How long did you wait still taking T4? Your symptoms?
Read this a lot: Doctors think everything is arthritis but then person is ok going off of T4. I can't get worse.. in 4 weeks to try something else.
I live in France. That's a long way from Mexico! And, I've sworn never to set foot in another airport! I've seen enough of them in my life, and I just can't face it anymore. Besides, at 76, does it really matter about my teeth! I probably won't be using them for much longer! lol
So you didn't say anything about all the aching. It is worse then I felt when experimenting t4t3SR? Some things are different, it's hard to compare with experiment with t4 synthroid. maybe I am less "hyper"(adrenals problem)
There's not much I can say, is there. Pain is all part and parcel of low T3. And, symptoms can vary a lot - sometimes it's here, sometimes it's there - symptoms come and go.
Have you ever had zinc tested? It's difficult to get nutrients tested in France, so I decided to take a chance and supplement zinc, having heard that hypos are often low in zinc. I was taking 4+ Ibuprofen a day at that point. Taking the zinc was like switching a blazing light off and finding yourself in the blessed dark. The muscle pain stopped almost over-night. And has never really come back - apart from my back! I haven't taken a single Ibuprofen since. That may not be your solution, but perhaps worth a try. But, I would advise getting zinc and copper tested first.
You are in no way hyper. Not sure why you said that. To be hyper, you would have to have your FT3 well over-range, and that's not your case.
How long did you wait still taking T4? Your symptoms?
I can't tell you anymore than that which has been covered in my profile. I put it all down there.
Doctors think everything is arthritis
Doctors, I find, have no imagination. Whether that's just the sort of person that is attracted to medicine, or whether they have it knocked out of them in med school, along with their empathy, I don't know. But, all joint pain is arthritis, all weight-gain is over-eating, all stomach troubles are high stomach acid, etc. etc. etc. They are entirely blinkered and incapable of thinking out of the box. They are like electric trains, chugging along the same tracks, incapable of diviating in any way. Or too scared to. Which is why we have to learn about our disease from free-thinkers and take charge of our own health.
in 4 weeks to try something else.
Ndt or t4 with t3...
That would be a bit short-sighted. It's going to take a lot longer than four weeks to know whether or not T4 suits you. At least six weeks to feel the full benefits of the dose you're on, then another six weeks after an increase, and so it goes on. The early days are often hard, but impatience gets you nowhere where thyroid is concerned. Hopping from one form of thyroid hormone replacement to another, without giving any of them time to prove their worth, will just keep you sick. Of course, it's up to you, but, just giving you my advice: stick with it for at least a year. You may feel ill, but you could feel worse.
(I understand...about the teeth, or air ports! Didn't expect you to go to Mexico. lol But- you are a young, 76. You can enjoy and chew, ok. Sounds like you are, good there. And you will be good. I feel, that.. you are enjoying things. A lot of people are having as good a life as need be, like a good friend of mine at 82... Others I see 85 others at 90-95! They live out in Ca. Where I usually am. I see them at the gym. My mom is 90 lives in Ca. now. I'm stuck in St.Louis. But we all, my mom, grew up here.)
I was, going to get Paul's Patient Manuel from Amazon. It does cover all forms of T medications,
t4, t3t4, t3,ndt
Thoughts on this book? His books and doing the circadian rythym, to help my adrenals. I know even without tests I have adrenal from stress and cortisol problems. When I say I feel hyper and put it in quotes I mean adrenal problems, so you know.jittery...that rush in chest constantly and antsy. You explained it that I'm not hyper but could have intermittant hormone release of cell breakdown with hashis. .
You could indeed have intermittent rises in thyroid hormones, but, basically, you are hypo.
I don't have any thoughts on Paul's book. I've never read it because I've never felt it concerned me. The circadian rythym is not the treatment I need. I need to take all my T3 at the same time, to flood the receptors. Spacing out my dose just doesn't work for me. But, read it, see what you can learn from it. You never know.
Also, I like what you say, about flooding the receptors also. I could ( I read Dr. John Lowe's articles and some patient studies. He took his T3 one dose. I even checked out Wilsons T3 theory with temperature. But too chicken to try it.
From your other reply; I hear what you're saying about zinc. It's helped you? I've been taking it, 30 mg also selenium, magnesium, vitamin C 1000, some days a multi vitamin or multi mineral...
GG, this week, if I sounded impatient or complaining? I hope not- It's other things that are going on, with this, too. So, I want to be standing. Not in bed another year, like this past year. At my age, I can't wait years. Or a couple years! Wanted to be more proactive, get- help. But a couple years...I am seeing that may be my fate. So many years, I should have taken notice. Year after year, I did notice many, things but kept thinking-- I would be ok. Felt rubbish, Saw a doctor, no help, got frustrated again, gave up. Always working on, diet at least and exercise, then broke down to go get Armour from doctor I could get give it, I was- fairly ok, on it, and one day I woke and felt great. And you were not around, to tell me not to stop.Don't know if I would be ok on it now, but also had a specially good diet veggies, meat and juicing celery etc. I was sleeping then. I still have a bunch of tablets 15 mg. From Nov 2019?? too old?
No, not to old. But, I wouldn't advise changing at this point. It will be a set-back if you do, because you will just confuse your body.
So, why did you stop the NDT, anyway? Because you felt good? Did you think you were cured?
Surely you must have read on here that we don't recommend multi-vits or minerals. These things should not all be taken together like that. Taking vit C with vit B12 will affect the efficacy of the B12. Taking zinc and magnesium together will block both. And, taking iron with anything other nutrient except vit C will cancel them all out. There are so many little things like that to observe in supplementing to assure maximum absorption. Doubtful you'll be getting any benefit from these multis. Plus the fact that they usually use the cheapest and least absorbable forms of the nutrient. They are not for people who have real deficiencies, they are just a money trap for the Worried Well. Waste of money!
Hi...yes I take seperate and got Pure Encapsulations Brand all my supps. , its excellent here in USA. hypoallergenic capsules one ingredient plant cellulose. No. Mag sterate, etc in capsules. Take B's seperate oh, does have c and d, a, in it though. but take d and c separate anyway. Don't take mineral supp. that much and do seperate mag etc... Will check this out, and understand what you are saying.
This is what I usually reply to people taking multis:
* If your multi contains iron, it will block the absorption of all the vitamins - you won't absorb a single one! Iron should be taken at least two hours away from any other supplement except vit C, which is necessary to aid absorption of iron, and protect the stomach.
* If your multi also contains calcium, the iron and calcium will bind together and you won't be able to absorb either of them.
* Multi's often contain things you shouldn't take or don't need : calcium, iodine, copper. These things should be tested before supplementing.
* Multi's often contain the cheapest, least absorbable form of the supplement : magnesium oxide, instead of magnesium citrate or one of the other good forms; cyanocobalamin instead of methylcobalamin; folic acid instead of methylfolate; etc. etc. etc. This is especially true of supermarket multis.
* Multi's do not contain enough of anything to help a true deficiency, even if you could absorb them.
* When taking several supplements, you should start them individually at two weekly intervals, not all at once as you would with a multi. Because, if you start them all at once, and something doesn't agree with you, you won't know which one it is and you'll be back to square one.
* Most supplements should be taken at least two hours away from thyroid hormone, but some - iron, vit D, magnesium and calcium (should you really need to take it) should be taken at least four hours away from thyroid hormone.
*Vit C should be taken 2 hours away from B12 because it affects how the body uses B12.
*Never take magnesium/zinc/calcium at the same time as they affect the absorption of each other.
*Take zinc and copper separately as zinc affects the absorption of copper.
*Vits A/D/E/K are all fat soluble vitamins, and if taken together can compete for the source of fat. They are best taken away from each other.
* The magnesium you take - and just about everybody needs to take it - should be chosen according to what you want it to do:
Magnesium citrate: mild laxative, best for constipation.
Magnesium taurate: best for cardiovascular health.
Magnesium malate: best for fatigue – helps make ATP energy.
Magnesium glycinate: most bioavailable and absorbable form, non-laxative.
Magnesium chloride: for detoxing the cells and tissues, aids kidney function and can boost a sluggish metabolism.
Magnesium carbonate: good for people suffering with indigestion and acid reflux as it contains antacid properties.
Worst forms of magnesium: oxide, sulphate, glutamate and aspartate.
With a multivitamin, you are just throwing your money down the drain, at best, and doing actual harm at worst. Far better to get tested for vit D, vit B12, folate and ferritin, and build up your supplementation program based on the results. A vitamin or a mineral is only going to help you if you need it, anyway. More of something you don’t need is not better, it's either pointless or even dangerous, as with iodine, calcium, iron or vit D.
Thank you for the vitamins info I understand about the vitamins. Have read about this ages ago, but don't have it all down. You put it together.
Its 8am. Been up since 2. I had chest pain, pressure. very...Depressed. Not sleeping more, but even less. I hate, this not sleeping for so long when I did so, easily.
I don't know what I'm doing, my hair long, still mostly brown, now its really so- thin, barely- covers my scalp, makes one pigtail that's barely anything and is falling out again now?with this T4. ..and my fingers are tingling.. don't know what else is wrong because I've been in bed all yesterday, but iced my aches. Don't want to take the T4 and don't know what can add or subtract to this scenario.
I should get up- go... yesterday I didn't eat after fruit for breakfast. At least had meat/bean soup late. Thats not good- I know. I'm sorry, I am so-undone.
Hair-loss due to levo is because the levo encourages testosterone to convert to Dihydrotestosterone (DHT). This should only be a temporary effect. But, to try and counter it, you could try take Evening Primrose Oil and Borage oil.
Don't want to take the T4 and don't know what can add or subtract to this scenario.
Nothing. There is nothing you can do except be patient and look after yourself. These things take time.
Sending you another message, you are sleeping well now. I didn't know Levo does that, not so good, in my case... I was already too high in that. Primrose didnt work last time but appreciate idea. Could see.
I most certainly am not sleeping well, now! lol I'm wide awake. Just given the dog his nightly levo and tried to persuade him to go out for a pee. But, he wasn't having any of it! He's got the most extraordinary bladder! (Sorry if that's TMI lol)
So, you already had high levels of DHT before starting levo? Why was it tested? It's not something that normally gets tested.
(I ...hope you maybe did a Happy Mothers day?I wrote this yesterday afternoon, to answer a Q, but I got too- carried away. I wasn't going to send it, but I'm feeling so rubbish, feel like pouring out. )
To answer your Q, I stopped the Armour trial, because I hadn't felt so good on it, and prior to that day, was just very dull, achy, jitters etc. So cut in 1/2 helped. But better than I feel now. I still wasn't sold then on taking a synthetic hormone replacing my own. After being diagnosed with mild neuropathy in my feet I diagnosed myself. Not good. I thought I better try Armor.(t4,t3,etc natural ndt) A Ca. Endocrine, said tests were in range but she thought I could try the thyroid medication to see, but wasn't giving Armour, only Tirosent.)
This Dr. B, a more expensive, functional medicine doctor sat behind his computer for 3 visits and didn't give much direction what we could do, just asked questions. My visit with him several years ago, were better; with exams. But I got a Armour prescription only after second refill had to go in for consult. Then I did this different diet, and I started to feel better and stopped the Armour, it hadn't felt right and I needed a doctor to supervise. I recall feeling not so good, after I stopped but I didn't know what I know now, or I would have given it more time.
I got sleepless, then broke the hip 2-3 months later, end March, luckily a small incision and 3 screws. After, I tried looking for doctors while at the Friendship Village retirement rehab, place, an- alone, time besides during Covid.
In April, May 20' I only found one doctor taking New patients. He looked like he was 24, also a sleep doctor. He helped with a CPAP since I did a sleep study for apnea in Feb.(after which I ended up in the ER, I felt so dizzy and bad) He gave me sleep medicine, and tried me on Gabapentin for neuropathy that felt worse. A sleep problem could also be my nose, or breathing- related so I saw an ENT who explained that I had narrow air passageway..nostril area that a nose operation possibly, could help. I passed for now.
Dr. C said unfortunately he couldn't prescribe, with my thyroid, in- range T4 T3 TSH TPO up, when I tested. Saw a Endocrine, her tests came back in range, nothing she could do, and said to seek counseling. And I tried functional doctors in between trying regular doctors and last Nov.2020-trying thyroid meds. I worsened; but was better after hip surgery than I am now, risking this trying, but didn't know what to give myself. Still don't.
I saw a Dr. Yu once and spent $800 on tests hair, food sensitivities, and supplements but didn't return. He did Meridians..lol.
A functional, Doctor "S" had given me the NP. He was less expensive and also first wanted to work on minerals and gut issues and go slow. And then do thyroid. I asked for thyroid, first.) Gave me NP to try instead of Armour but NP was discontinued. I was jittery on it.
This other functional MD Dr. W, gave me the sex hormones bioidentical estrodial and progesterone in Oct. to help my body get more in balance since I wasn't "handling" NP NDT. It helped my skin and sleeping? But I stopped it after a few weeks because he gave me a prescription for the T4T3SR when I asked for it. I tried, without seeing him, for 7+ weeks. Stopped the other hormones when starting t4t3, but was told I didn't have to-stop. I thought they might interfere.
Now, I feel I maybe should have just continued with the bioidentical hormones to balence me or see, these months, to see how I felt.
So, just doing T4 again- now only alone, this extra suffering? lately.. more than I was before...
I know how I sound- impatient and indecisive, complaining- I hope not..!
You are of much help.
With 4 other problems at once and a GP is just, giving me just another prescription but this time T4. his choice, not from any testing of me further like cortisol etc. And, a starter dose. He doesn't know how to dose, me. I don't feel any confidence or direction with that and I know I agreed to this 10 days ago.
I saw my hair was coming out-it was already over doing that these months because of dht yes, imbalance for a long time.
My fingers were tingling, numbing when I was warming some food last night
I got your note. About hair fall testosterone- I will read it again. But I have too much testosterone, from signs I have.
I know wrong medication can cause this much stuff, too...will see how I get thru this night. I know you're trying to get me to smile. We can't be sure, with me.
(I feel T4 is just Big Pharma, may be so, especially now for me.. I only mean. Like my meds with side effects. Doctors cannot explain me . I'm not the norm and you may think I can apply the rules of waiting, I understand that so...much.
I know that T4 is a hormone. But it has plenty fillers and theT4 is synthetic, just a tiny amount in the tablets. And this Levoxyl or Synthroid T4 is the "new kid,' not for everyone.
The not knowing if T4 is ok for me, or being used by my body, to get T3 to cells drives me batty only when feeling- this bad, jitters... sleeping very little now.
I did not have symptoms like you. I read your profile, much more vague, all the ones on here. You were eight years old and needed --thyroid help not given. You tried things, they helped, had ups with downs. Now you can handle T3.
Someone asked me today if I was sure I was really hypothyroid and said other things too. Made me consider a bit. Not saying I'm not hypothyroid here, just will explain later.
I have Hashimotos. And I do- understand, what you've said.
All the people here are needing thyroid medication. Having some problems but also, already on- a medication.
(I know my anxiety could also be from hypothyroidism.)
Its ok...be exasperated with me, ha ha. but it feels not right, you are in France, sleep well.....
Still not asleep! lol It's 11h45 here, so not too late. I'm usually in bed before that, but - for various reasons - I had a nap this afternoon, so not too sleepy now.
Thank you for the Mothers Day wishes, but it isn't Mothers Day here. Ours is always on the last Sunday in May, so the 30th this year.
Even though I'm awake, I'm not firing on all cylenders, so shall put off replying to you until tomorrow. Think I'll go to bed now, and watch a DVD.
I Took the 50mcg. I Was not going to. Got some feedback...That the body will fall back if I stop, and come back later to start something "else." Better to switch or add. I knew that--but needed to hear it to sink in...
I can for my own peace, stay with this medication, at 50, but if I keep deteriorating, I know switching isn't good but it's better than getting off? I'm afraid, I might do that.
I could try Armor the remainder time before a blood test is that okay... Armour: 15mg =25mcg +5mcg T3.
30Mcg is 50 plus 10mcg T3.
T3 =? How much of Levo 4x5?
Armour is 15mg 30 or 60..
I took compounded T4 with slow release T3 before. Have it here, 20/4mcg. I also have 5mcg T3SR here.
Slow release isn't really good? People feel different about it I know. It doesn't flood the receptors stays in gut to slow the release?
Just- talking.... trying to smile over here... I think, ahead only because helps me get thru it.
I could try Armor the remainder time before a blood test is that okay... Armour: 15mg =25mcg +5mcg T3.
Nope. That is very much NOT alright. No point in testing if you haven't been on the same type of thyroid hormone replacement, the same brand and the same dose for six weeks straight. You would just be wasting the time you've already been on levo. Switching now is not going to make you get better faster, it's going to set you back and confuse your body. It would be very ill advised.
We've had people on here that do that sort of thing, and it rarely goes well for them.
T3 =? How much of Levo 4x5?
There's no such thing as an exact equivalent. It all depends how well you convert. And, we have no idea how well you convert yet. That's one of the reasons for staying you levo longer: to find out how well you convert.
Slow release isn't really good? People feel different about it I know. It doesn't flood the receptors stays in gut to slow the release?
I have never tried it. Like everything else, it suits some people, not others. Depends on your gut motility. And, as that often changes with hypos, you can never be sure quite how much T3 you're going to get. It's a bit of a lucky dip, really. We've seen people on here that hardly absorb any at all.
I have B-12, 761? Was over 1000 when had a B12 shot. Trying to synopsis, were digging but its in front of me. You can't see me, just my typing what I feel . Being honest, not impatient. You said, I would lose the time, twelve days now, compared to staying on this 6 weeks then months to feel bad then starting all over on a T3 medication converting over. You said it suits a lot of people I understand that but I am really feeling sick today and yes hyper or high level pain and did ignore, stay calm, came out to the store and one. other chore. A person shouldn't feel this sick, nauseous, headachy now, 24/7, all the time, 4 days more. N I break. I stuck out the first 5 6 days. handling it but not as bad, as now. Chest tightness is back, breathless, hot then cold, aching ok -thats all fine, but this is terrific, jittery ill, non stop. So I was saying, something is wrong, ( when I said not right). I don't know if my night medications interfere like Gabapentin or the Lunesta? But it doesn't feel like tolerance, anytime soon. Drs. telling me that there's nothing they can do for me like this one I just saw I have to give more blood tests to but he won't take me, I him a note.
Hi...you were up? now asleep...Sorry. My last message was unclear.
I was trying to erase part of it but it g it automatically sent.
I don't get B12 shots. Had a couple with a Functional doctor I saw, we were taking about neuropathy issues and low B12 Months ago..it helped me feel calm I remember. I get jittery with B supplements.
Pardon? What does that mean?
I just meant going from T4 and 'starting over" with T4 T3 or NDT having to go slow convert your visage over. Easier to start on it then do that.
Or are you saying that it's the levo doing this to you? They do sound like hypo symptoms.
Yes!.... I am saying the levo, (T4) is giving me these symptoms. These are not my hypo symptoms. Have you been drinking ever just driving the hypo symptoms? I did not have these until the day I started medication April 29. First it was sore dry eyes, burning mouth, chest pressure and breathing pain, and still have the please a little especially today I had but that was the first five or six days and now this is worse I don't get a break it's agony. Today I ran back and forth taking something to a doctor office and forgetting it and that gave me some exercise and at 3 p.m. I felt 10 minutes of relief. sudden like a drop in levels inside my body. Before
PI was feeling pretty good except of course having all these hypo symptoms LOL but I did not feel like this this is Agony. I feel very ill, jitters, I told you, built up jitters, body shaking inside, or outside now at night, its 24/7. Especially after 2-3 hrs from taking the tablet starts jittery shaking feeling you cant calm down. I stay calm but its there, headachy which I never am headachy, in body pain 24/7 and today nausea all day.
So, when did you last have your B12 measured? Maybe it's time to do it again.
All this talk about things making you 'jittery', that sounds very much like a cortisol problem.
I just meant going from T4 and 'starting over" with T4 T3 or NDT
But, it's not 'starting over', it's carrying on. You don't go back to a low dose. When you add in T3 you add in 5 mcg to your existing dose of levo, and then start slowly increasing the T3.
having to go slow convert your visage over.
Well, of course you have to go slow. You have to go slow with all of it. There's no way round it. But, with NDT, you can increase every two weeks for a while.
But, you got me again! What does 'visage' mean?
Easier to start on it then do that.
Not really, no.
I am saying the levo, (T4) is giving me these symptoms.
No, T4 is a hormone. Hormones don't cause symptoms. The fillers in the tablets do, but not the T4 itself. However, it's not unusual, when starting levo, to find that hypo symptoms get worse - or even that you develop new symptoms. These go as the dose gets higher.
People who find they are unsuited to levo don't get specific symptoms like that, it's just that they feel vaguely unwell when taking it. Nothing you can put your finger on, but you just feel better without it.
But, if you're convinced it's the T4, what do you suggest doing about it? NDT contains T4, so it's likely that you won't support that, either. Are you thinking about going onto T3 only?
I re- read your last message.4/20 B was 721. I don't know how I responded last night, I can't see it here, but you can look at this updating; I took the 50mcg T4 8:30 am- I didn't know what else to do...
Again, 2 1/2 hrs later got bad nausea..can't eat much, awful feeling inside and vague, yes, like you mentioned one feels. Like not feeling well. Trembling feeling still. I want to jump out of my skin. (I'll say that instead of jitters.) I got feeling hot, for one moment, usually chills.
I don't know, GG...woke up, pelvic bones, back sore, knees sore, but thats ok. then took a pill. Writing a different doctor who did blood work, wish she hadn't, tests are strange she took 3 B tests, B12, Homocysteine, MMA. Shes a pediatrician too! Kids tests. Did a lot for Graves antibodies, an LCMS tg test it was in range- instead of doing a my Tg test, and mine is 349. Ah, well. She was another great referral. Who will give Armour, etc.
Need to stay calm. Feel very empty of hope again- plus, sick. ouch!
Do I contact GP, and...? Tell him I feel bad. That I took 50 instead of 25 as he prescribed? (1/2 a tablet.) I did mention wanting to try the 50, he wrote: I still think we should take this slowly adding a low dose Levoxyl first and then increasing depending on the response.--
What can I tell him? Don't want him to think I'm not following him. Or- cut off his help or giving t3, or even Armour maybe later.
You asked, what alternatives did I think to do now? I don't know, today. I tried recalling the NDT somewhat, it could, cause the trembling, feeling unwell, also.? Same with T3, I only tried slow release. I know I didn't feel as bad back when doing them. I was in better shape.
( question- for tomorrow: can I skip a day to get any- relief? )Or, I can't think doing 25mcg would make this a different outcome, but I did 25 last Thurs., then took 2nd half later. Felt bad after days end so did no more splits. (experimenting)
Unfortunately, GG, if I didnt feel this now I'd be emotionally good. I can't describe. Very-uncomfortable. But I've never felt so sick. operations or sickness were not like this.
That was a year ago. A lot can happen in a year and it could very well have dropped again. I take it you only had one B12 injection? If you have trouble absorbing/storing B12 then it will have dropped. B12 is so terribly important, you really, really ought to get it tested again, now.
Trembling feeling still. I want to jump out of my skin. (I'll say that instead of jitters.)
Doesn't matter what you call it, it still sounds like an adrenal problem.
Writing a different doctor who did blood work, wish she hadn't, tests are strange she took 3 B tests, B12, Homocysteine, MMA.
Why do you wish she hadn't? She was testing for Pernicious Anemia. Do you have the results of those tests?
Do I contact GP, and...? Tell him I feel bad. That I took 50 instead of 25 as he prescribed? (1/2 a tablet.) I did mention wanting to try the 50, he wrote: I still think we should take this slowly adding a low dose Levoxyl first and then increasing depending on the response.--
I don't really think he knows enough about thyroid to be able to help you. Yes, you should take it slowly, of course you should. But, there's such a thing as TOO slowly. Starting at 50 mcg is taking it slowly, starting at 25 mcg is too slowly because of the reasons I explained before. But, you didn't really stay on 25 mcg long enough to know howyou felt on it, did you.
can I skip a day to get any- relief?
I don't know what to reply to that. I can't really see the point. I don't even know if it would give you any relief. I suppose you could take 50 mcg on alternate days, which would work out the same as taking 25 a day, but would that be of any advantage? You'd have to try it to see.
Sorry, B12 was April 20 20 last month. It was 1103 Jan 13 after a shot in Oct and Dec. It was 633 all 2019.
I meant I wish I hadn't started with the she-doctor or her Lab. But she would give Armour. She's very young, a pediatrician, has triplets, referred by friend, as good w/ adults, thyroid. I have a lot of Mix-Ups with her after one visit, testing the rt3 test twice, communications, not getting back to me after tests, long story.
Other tests she did: Graves testing antibodies? I didn't think I needed? but- ok. I just ask for Tg and TP0.
MMA? it says online, is for new born screening for B12, and Homocystein; testing child hood disorder for B12 so I thought shed a pediatrician... But she made it sound like they were for my neuropathy? I didnt care about neuropathy. Just thyroid right now.
So this checks for P. Anemia?
Methlylmalonic Acid 86 nmol/L 0-378
Homocystein 8.1 0-17.2
Thyroid Stim Immunoglogin <0.10 0-.55
Thyrotropin Rec A b <1.10. 0- 1.75
Thyroglobulin (LCMS) 3.4ngmL (1.5-3.5)
(My Jan. 2020 Tg test by GP (its always-high) was 349 <.4IU/ml.
Are LCMS- thyroglobulin tests a different methodology ? (I looked it up online):
Her tests: T3 was 2.71 (2.3-3.46) a very narrow range, and free T4 was .87(.58-1.57) TSH was 3.24 but at 1pm on 4/20/20. You saw these,
but I cleared up some confusion and just sent the results for my test on April 7th. 7a.m.--my GP did-same month.
Sorry, B12 was April 20 20 last month. It was 1103 Jan 13 after a shot in Oct and Dec. It was 633 all 2019.
You mean April 20 2021?
Of course it was high after a shot, that's normal. But, it won't stay at that level, so that is totally irrelevant.
MMA? it says online, is for new born screening for B12, and Homocystein; testing child hood disorder for B12 so I thought shed a pediatrician... But she made it sound like they were for my neuropathy? I didnt care about neuropathy. Just thyroid right now.
Well, you should care about neuropathy!!! It's caused by nerves being destroyed by low B12. She was testing you for Pernicious Anemia, which is a right and proper thing to do for someone with hypothyroidism - especially if they have Hashi's, because PA is autoimmune, too.
(My Jan. 2020 Tg test by GP (its always-high) was 349 <.4IU/ml.
Do you mean Tg antibodies? Although 0.41 would be awfully low for the top of the range.
LoL. Typing is not like talking, so I could clarify myself :)I do realize that, about high B 12 after a shot, it doesnt count. I retested soon as I could. I didn't mean I don't care about neuropathy, I care, am taking care of, just wanted her to do tests for thyroid. Tg tests are different with her lab. My Tg AB test was 349,its range is: less than or, < .4 iu/ml is ok bit not higher for that lab test. Thus, my TG antibodies are high. Her test unlike all my endocrines or doctor's usual TG testing, was a whole different range. 1.5-3.5 and I was ok, for her test called LC/MS-MS abbreviation: but its still a Thyroglob. test but different. Confusing. I'll try to ask her if she answers, or ask my GP. I don't know if the she doctor was testing me for anemia as you said, because she implied it was for, and along with the B12 but more ways to test for B12 deficiency related to my neuropathy. Tests all have several things they can be used for like I found out about child disease, using MMA test for that also
I understand. I was reading things regarding studies of women with higher antibodies having more hypo symptoms, than those with lower antibodies and having less symptoms; yet their TSH was the same and in range. Article was for undetected thyroid function. I sent link, don't know if you wanted to look.
...hypothyroidism that could not be diagnosed reliably with screening TSH alone. (Subclinical)
In summary, we document that an exaggerated TRH response indeed occurs in many subjects with a normal biochemistry, the giveaway being a high-normal TSH and a low-normal or even low FT4. We also suggest that the notion of an early “sub-biochemical” state of hypothyroidism may be plausible and needs further study.
Even though the TRH test is seldom used in clinical practice at present, a larger prospective study is in order. Until then, physicians may once again need access to TRH for diagnostic use.
TRH - Thyrotropin Releasing Hormone. This is a hypothalamus hormone which stimulates the pituitary to release thyrotropin - aka TSH.
This test used to be done as part of an investigation into Central Hypothyroidism. I believe they stopped doing it as it carries certain risks.
The hypothalamus releases TRH to stimulate the pituitary to release TSH. If the fault lies with the pituitary, it won't respond to TRH stimulation. But, if it does respond, then they know that the fault lies with the hypothalamus.
Thank you for the link about antibodies. I've only glanced through it, but I didn't get the impression that they were saying it was the antibodies causing the increase in symptoms. It was just the disease itself. The antibodies are not the disease. You can have hashi's without ever having high levels of antibodies. When they talked about 'high' and 'low' levels, I think they were talking about in or over-range antibodies, not how high they were over the top of the range.
Ok ...hard to tell when reading that, could be that,. Makes sense.
(Also, thanks about P Anemia, but I just thought, she would test my B12 first to see first, if I was- deficient. and then move further, do more, B12 tests. (insurance only pays so many B tests.) Is she trying to be more thourough eg. or, is it really necessarry..)
Hi.... sleep good.You've been real support. You know, that..
(I was really praying to not feel sick, and took a shower finally.) I felt this fresh surge type feeling like medication gives if it starts working. After I got out, my whole body got weighted down(weights on top of me) and back ached so it didn't hold me standing up. I have some curvature, but it didn't affect me before. Exercised. Its too soon to feel dosage change of 50 to 25. Did the body expect a bigger replacement, thus undermedicated? I could dress, get in car, get food. I can't think, how to do this tomorrow myself, (actually got quite scared.)
Bad time to handle reactions and, get used to T4, (long half life.)Today I had to look at the fact I was producing quite a bit of thyroid hormone on my own. Didn't understand I'd get, all the effects. Didnt choose to go slow do sex hormones first. You say Im hypo. Im hashi, hypo symptoms. It's doubt, because I don't know whats happening inside and this neuropathy, no-sleep, spine, thing, interferes with this.
But you weren't producing quite a bit of thyroid hormone on your own! Your FT4 was only 23.75% through the range! FT3 a lot lower. That's a long way off euthyroid, and certainly not enough for a hypo! And, you are hypo. It's not me that says it, it's your blood test results.
You have Hashi's, so it's perfectly normal to have fluctuating results but that does NOT mean that your thyroid suddenly starts producing more, it just means that the immune system has prodded it a bit and killed a few cells.
Typos bad! lolshivering in spring...Good, have a drink...I realize it's not good to switch back and forth between 25 and 50 I have heard every word you have ever said I am just not wishing to stay low dose below the starting dose.
I really don't know what to answer. It's something ony you can decide because only you know how you feel. But, obviously 50 isn't working. So perhaps go down to 25 and stick with it for a few weeks, and see how you get on. Or, try the alternating 50 one day, nothing the next. It adds up to the same thing, but will give you that day of respite you wanted. Try it and see if it works out the way you want. But, weeks rather than days, because changing dose too often just isn't good for you.
Hi GG, I was hoping yesterday would be ok. Did 25 mcg. Second day. Had back aching- not standing up well, extremely jittery; I had to go walk a lot outside. I was just lying down. Too weak to cook. Food sensitivities cause sinus so limit choices, just in case..Trying, to eat.
I had chest pain and a burning feeling in chest, burning on tongue, gums, headache. Last night a filmy feeling over one eye last night, was weird, I hope its just dryness from this. Used drops.
Isn't it true that taking low dose T4 is, or can be less than what (my) thyroid is producing so it also causes these worsening symptoms? Until proper dosage is reached which could be a while, weeks, months.
Just telling you my symptoms, I can't think straight now and feel very sick. I didn't take T4...? too sick. I need an objective thought of what to do. I will email symptoms to the doctor now, or call too. I need to suggest something else, also or he will just stop. I won't get an adrenal test from him. Should I suggest Armor? A different T4 probably will do nothing better.
Isn't it true that taking low dose T4 is, or can be less than what (my) thyroid is producing so it also causes these worsening symptoms? Until proper dosage is reached which could be a while, weeks, months.
Yes, I told you that. But, going up to 50 mcg should be enough to equal things out, even if you're going to need a higher dose eventually - which could, effectively, take months.
But, if you're having trouble tolerating the levo itself, there doesn't seem to be much option other than taking 25 mcg, until your body gets used to it.
A different T4 probably will do nothing better.
It would be a good idea to at least try a different brand of levo, one with different fillers, to see if it is the fillers that are affecting you. Telling him that it's the T4 itself probably will get your levo stopped with no alternative. But, you could try asking for liquid levo. Or Tirosint, which has the least fillers.
I was going to say, Tirosent or liquid. But, didn't think it would matter. ( I tried Synthroid 2 short trys 2nd try got burning mouth like now, but worse. First I did T4 in a Tt4T3 cap 20/4. It was clean, from a compound pharmacy. And had a similar reaction.
I remember about 50mcg, but I read even 50mcg may be inadaquate substitute (causing me to worsen more,as I can't tolerate taking it so to- increase.) Others just have the symptoms, aching, nausea, fatigue, and increase. I saw the examples.
Anything here you could "guess at" looks ok? Or not. For adrenals.
Cortisol. AM. 11.5 ug dl. 6.0-18.4
Cortisol. PM. 6.8. ug dl 2.7-10.5
ACTH. AM 23. 7.2-63 (10-60)
ACTH. PM. 8.3. 7.2-63 pm actually online, it says range drops to below 20 for 4pm. And below 10, or 5 at time falling asleep.
A functional doctor I mentioned- wanted to test adrenal but give me a cortrosyn shot(the ACTH stim) and you answered that it won't do much for adrenal fatigue checking... so I can't even go to him don't feel certain about spending more money there..
Does T3 added, like 2.5 mcg to start; could it help me in this case? I know we don't add things now- but could it.
Did you think it was silly to write the GP today to switch me to Armour?
I tried 1/4 grain 15mg. In 2019 a few weeks. If I felt jittery I recall, I divided it in half. I could remind him I was on it.
I still have Armor left, quite a bit but its dated Nov 2019? Is that Too old? (lol) but serious.
I'm reaching for straws. I started T4 because it was available, had to do something, even prayed for a little bit of Tolerance. I know I'm capable of living outside of this room not--be
adding on, symptoms.
Muscles near my mouth, (right side) mouth feels drooping- like some kind of muscle loss? Have you ever heard of this one-?
Sorry I am again,really undone, my dear. Could not think, eat, or stop painful stuff.. So took a days, break. Can't guess yet what to do tomorrow. I - took 2mg, mirtazapine, at 4am to sleep- It doesn't work anymore but it calms.
Well, that's pretty low, for a start. Less than mid-range. Early morning it should be up the top of the range. So, your adrenals are not happy.
Does T3 added, like 2.5 mcg to start; could it help me in this case? I know we don't add things now- but could it.
It depends. We don't yet know how well you convert. If you're a poor converter, then yes, it will help. But, if you're managing to convert T4 to an adequate amount of T3, then it wouldn't. With T3, you need just the right amount, more isn't better.
Did you think it was silly to write the GP today to switch me to Armour?
I don't think it was silly, no. But... changing at this point? I don't know.
I tried 1/4 grain 15mg. In 2019 a few weeks. If I felt jittery I recall, I divided it in half. I could remind him I was on it.
You stayed on a starter dose for too long. With NDT, we increase by 1/4 every two weeks. Once again, it was the problem of being on too low a dose causing you to go more hypo.
I still have Armor left, quite a bit but its dated Nov 2019? Is that Too old? (lol) but serious.
If it's been stored properly, it should be ok.
Muscles near my mouth, (right side) mouth feels drooping- like some kind of muscle loss? Have you ever heard of this one-?
No, I've never heard of that. But, of course, we do lose muscle-tone when we're hypo.
....I meant, so I could actually take the armor? Will I know if it's no good? I kept it in a plastic bag in my bedroom with some other medication. It may have been in my car for a very short while when I was going to rehab
You could try it, but as you don't know what effect it's supposed to have, you won't know if that's what it's doing - in other words, you won't know if it's lost its potency, or what. It would be much better if you could start your NDT journey with fresh NDT, and keep this old one to try later.
Also, how would I get onto it if I do this? Stop T4 wait a couple days or just start and take15mg? Or example take T4 25mg with (1/2 or full) 15mg.
If I can get a new prescription should I just get 15 mg or the 30 mg. That's what the pharmacist has right now is 30 but just wondered what those you think is best eg., 2 weeks then take two or. Then 2 weeks.. until? what amount?
Just make a straight swop: 25 mcg on Monday, say, then Tuesday take 15 mg NDT. You don't need to let the T4 get out of your system because NDT has T4 anyway.
I took the Armor I have here. It was definitely potent. I didn't wait till Tuesday. lol (kidding)
I felt ok, good, almost immediately. 1 hr..then 2 hrs., 4, 6. No muscle aches. Jitteriness, but not as much from the armor as from my sleep medication and my anxiety from not sleeping and taking it. I could pinpoint it, and feel the difference. The additional T3. It feels different than my first try.
I have more....(knew I have to wait and see before writing too much..!)
After sending your message had a bit if reaction.. felt like a wave coming on, as when you hit the ocean. Chest constriction, pain, adrenal rush, felt kinda sick to stomache wondered if the med was bad? stronger now, naw impossible. (already forgot what I felt, with this brain fog because it passed) I went for a slow walk for about 1 1/2 hours at 5 to sort it out. Feeling like I'm on speed, with slight tingling/numbness in fingers, more energy than I've had in 12 months. Not ..sleepy.
I had a strong reaction after 4 PM yesterday..What if I cut the tablet in half, (it's a really small round tablet) Try that (a few days or longer?)
I can't recall when I started taking half, the 15mg Armour tablet but it felt ok, not hypo, and kept me taking it longer. (That was my first try of thyroid meds- Oct/Nov to Dec 2019.) I started am elimination diet, fixed more and ate more then, eliminating gluten and dairy, etc. juicing celery, veggies. I woke up one morning feeling better, and thought it was the juicing and diet doing it. Stopped taking the Armour (can explain later)
I didn't know if that was ok :? and had to take something by 9:30am at least. I had divided it, took half but then just took the other half minus a little bit, unfortunately. (lol)Can you say anything about my reaction/ symptoms I wrote?
right now., some nausea, speedy, tense- will eat. It is kind of, concerning. Do you think the Armour is ok?
(I'm looking into getting a new script but don't know how soon-
( May 26th -( appt w/ doctor who gives Armour, but that's awhile.) I could ask my GP. Tell him, I took the Armour and why -he could react strangely.
No, I can't say anything about your reactions because it's not the sort of thing I had. As I explained before, when taking levo, which wasn't right for me, I didn't have a reaction to it, as such. I just felt awful all the time - much worse than when I started on it, and I started putting on weight like mad. But, it didn't make me nauseous or jitterly or anything like that you could put your finger on. It's was just constant misery. Which is why I feel that it's the fillers you're reacting to rather than the hormone itself.
Do you think the Armour is ok?
There won't be anything wrong with the Armour, except loss of potency.
low cortisol... names some of my symptoms. I read it a long time ago...
I totally understand about your symptoms. But even better now. I just thought, what others might have had. I did try that compounded T4 minus excess fillers, and reacted to that. Should have done the half.
Tomorrow..
Just to help instruct me, how many days you think on 1/2 approx.? then raise and do 15mg for two weeks, not 30. Just 15 for two weeks. Is that good, enough production for my thyroid?
What indicates adding T4 to NDT?
Could I need more possibly if T3 is too much?
It's nice to make it simple with just Armour, but it sounds like it sometimes doesn't work that way hearing from others.
Regarding time I take it: I have to take Armour the same time, with the T3 added now, correct? So I can take it when I wake up (3 or 4am) if that helps with T3 peaks or cortisol leveling, thus help sleeping longer? But, then, I would want to take it later if I slept more. You do T3 early a.m.
Just to help instruct me, how many days you think on 1/2 approx.?
I would say two weeks.
Is that good, enough production for my thyroid?
Not quite sure what you mean, there.
What indicates adding T4 to NDT?
Good question. But, in your case, I would say 'nothing'. Given that you react to levo.
Could I need more possibly if T3 is too much?
Some people do need more T4 if their FT4 goes very low. But, it wouldn't be becaqus the T3 is too much. There's not very much T3 in NDT.
Regarding time I take it: I have to take Armour the same time, with the T3 added now, correct?
I'm not convinced that you need to take it at exactly the same time every day. But, taking it in the night at 3/4 am is what a lot of people do, and they find that quite acceptable.
You do T3 early a.m.
Me? ha ha! I don't do anything early. I take my T3 when I get up, but that can be anything between 4 am to 1 pm! My sleep is not well regulated.
it wasn't the diet but it was helping, to feel better?
Armor was the first or only thyroid medication I felt like taking. I was half decided on medication back then, it was wholly my idea, so I never had doctor-help on the whole subject, they didn't support me to help my symptoms so- I didn't have info like I do now and I wouldn't have stopped. I hadn't felt good, until that last day. Who knows how I would have been the next, day and next. Wish I'd continued to find out. But no-doctor. I was looking to retry, find someone, Then I got into this mess. Last winter was again, me trying things. Now T4 alone. And today has been- ugh.
Feeling sick, nausea, and nervousness. lol. Don't want to eat. Up/ down.
(Is that good, enough production for my thyroid? )
I meant: is 1/2 of of 15mg sufficient replacement, or- doing anything? And you said 2 weeks on half 15.
is 1/2 of of 15mg sufficient replacement, or- doing anything? And you said 2 weeks on half 15.
Impossible to know how much hormone your thyroid actually makes, so can answer that question. But, whether it's enough of not, it's best to increase very slowly to let your body get used to it.
GGI Hope, you slept well. I wake at 3am so I took half 15mg at 3:30am today trying a different time ... hitting the T3 peak at 3/4am. Help w/ cortisol. I saw these graphs for tsh t3, t4, cortisol and cortisol is highest when I took the T4- for me not so good. I did write the GP after hrs., 5pm to get a script for Armour.. tomorrow?
12 hrs is amazing...! Un-believable.:)See what happens tonight...lol
You are right...it I don't understand it,
If what time its taken doesn't matter than how is it the time if its just one dosing...wait, can I answer that? lol. (the graphs I sent you, did u just click at them? I know you already know them , they are just simple lines.)
T4 graph is flat. With T3 it must matter, a person has to figure out if their body can use it at the supposed 3 a.m. peak of T3 or, they just take it in the morning sometime or they take it in the evening when it most metabolize better for some? I dunno..
And, how are they supposed to work that out? I've never actually heard anyone say they feel better taking it at this time or that time, except some people feel better taking their T4 before bed, rather than in the morning.
Hope you slept just as well tonight...good night, its late here. I went and got my Armour prescription at 7 p.m. The GP put it in late but he put it in. Glad to have it. But Only 30 tablets. I asked for 60. Less expensive. I will think how to do this because I can't stay on 15 mg for 4 weeks. That's when he would recheck levels. He doesn't know how to dose Armor.
Functional doctor directions are: usual dose for thyroid is 1-4 grains a day some patients may need a very tiny dose such as 1/4 grain per day therefore it requires the dose be individualized start and gradually build up til person starts feeling better golden principal start low and go slow, take one tablet once a day for one week to see how you feel if no improvement is noticed go to two tabs once a day for one week if there is no improvement 3 tabs once a day for one week.. 4 tabs...then no more!maintain it that level until you come back for a recheck don't go beyond 4 tabs. One grain thyroid...
Says to take iron, mag, cal 4 hrs away from food but can together! ?
Well, you can't together. Iron needs to be taken entirely on its own - apart from vit C - because it affects the absorption of everything enlse.
And, surely, it's 4 hours away from thyroid hormone, not food.
But, why would you want to take calcium, anyway? It's very rare to be deficient in calcium in the western world. And, you should certainly be tested first to make sure you absolutely need it, because calcium supplements are dreadful things.
I agree that one should start low and increase slowly on ANY hormone, not just thyroid hormones, but what you're suggesting above is much too fast. Especially if testing after only four weeks. There's a strong possibility, with that protocol, of rapidly over-shooting your sweet-spot and becoming over-medicated. Sheer insanity, I call it!
And, if one tablet is 1 grain, then that's increase by far too much in one go!
Not exactly what he said lol. I have a sheet of instructions I was trying to dictate what it said. 1 tab is 1/4 grain 15mg. His instructions are take one 1 tab increases every week if....if no improvement and taking basal temperature and pulse. basal temperature, will increase with proper medicating to get it normal body temp. Mine was 95-96.8 etc im always chilled even now.When he talked to me he said leave it at whatever I feel good then we will test...probay 6-8 weeks I can't remember now. I was trying NP.
I'm not taking calcium or iron just mag. His sheet says its ok to take those 3 together-I don't. I think im very low range in Cal. now...but not taking it. Could eat cheese or drink milk if I stop being dairy free. It may bother me some.
Ok. So, should I take each (2 wks) 30/ then 45mg before blood test? Or stay 15 if I feel good? Can it be possible I only need 15 mg? Func. doc sheet says some my need only a tiny dose.
My living conditions need help, so I need my energy, and not be under medicated. Can I learn from a 4 wk blood test? 6 is better, yes. I was on levo 15 days, T4 is part of this, though I know- its not giving a true test.
I took 2 hour walk thinking, after the pharmacy at 8pm. I always feel better at 6 pm. with Armour I was, wired or tense after 4pm. I go through the morning feeling good right now, then jitters on the armor. I'm starting to think the variable is this lunesta sleep medication Caused jitters prior. I need to find another. Very difficult to do.
I have apt with she doctor next Wednesday I can get armor prescription for 30mg and cut in half to do increases.
( GP may be slow increasing.)
But-reason I'm thinking about this is
This new Armour tab,at first felt nothing. Now feel it- its smoother. I can feel medication. Its like a high I don't want wearing off. You said 30mg is the starting dose. Im only 15. I could...write GP's nurse today
and tell her I made mistake I was taking starting dose of 30mg not 15mg. Just thought I was on lowest dose until I looked. Old bottle! lol. It will make me look stupid. lol
But, Is that crazy? I can cut them in half. I thought of it yesterday but thought, no. im not used to the 15. but that was the old medication and this is different. it feels really good. I will wait to see if it's the T3 kicking me even so- if I take 15mg more later, should, I? If I feel good but come down- wired slugged after 4, does that mean I'm under medicated or could it be something else? Either way thats why people dose 2x a day.
PsThe private MD I got the old armor from did--- give me 30 mg actually....
I was taking it then. Following month I decided to cut back to 15 I just do my notes on office notes- maybe why I didnt feel as good back then- didn't feel bad but just not great like now.
So, should I take each (2 wks) 30/ then 45mg before blood test? Or stay 15 if I feel good?
You should wait two weeks between each increase.
Stop increasing - or lengthen the gap - if you start to feel good.
When you find a dose you feel good on, stay on it for six weeks before testing.
Func. doc sheet says some my need only a tiny dose.
It is highly unlikely that you will only need a small dose. A normally functioning thyroid makes about 100 mcg T4 and 20 mcg a day. But hypos need more exogenous hormone because not all of it is going to get absorbed. 15 mg NDT is nowhere near 100/20. As I've said before, functional doctors tend to have some very strange ideas about thyroid.
Can I learn from a 4 wk blood test?
No.
You said 30mg is the starting dose. Im only 15.
Did I? Not sure I did. I would have suggested starting on 15 mcg for someone starting from scratch. Perhaps I said that because you'd already been on levo.
Either way thats why people dose 2x a day.
People dose twice a day because they feel better doing it that way. But, not everybody does. Some people only take it once a day. You have to find out by trail and error, what suits you best.
If I feel good but come down- wired slugged after 4, does that mean I'm under medicated or could it be something else?
It certainly could be 'something else', yes. But, the only way to know if it's due to being under-medicated is to increase the dose - but stick to the protocol: increase once every two weeks.
I didn't answer because I didn't have an answer. Personally, given the problems you've been having, now you're on 15 I would say stay on 15 for the full two weeks. For one thing, it's not good to keep changing - and you've done a lot of changing since you started taking hormone. And, secondly, you need to give your body time to adapt. It's probably been without adequate thyroid hormone for a long time. There's a lot of adaptation that needs to go on before you can increase. You know what they say: more haste, less speed!
I understand. ....;\)I also feel its eating this up. And needs a little more to equalize myself. I guess I feel the T3? Maybe? It's like a 'clean' feeling. Is it like watering a wilted flower?
I've heard that, but just never felt it.
It was getting more hormone with levoxyl taking the 50. Going up now down again.
30 divided would be 15 x2 wish I could get that. But that was the thought. Do 30. The nurse isn't in on Wed. I was going to talk to her.
I could wait or try another tablet? Either tonight or...two tomorrow.
Or do as you say, wait.
At least- a week anyway.
But you re saying, not, if I feel good.
I feel good- but very very edgy, throat is burning, every day...fir last 21 days dragging since starting oy relief was starting 15mg old armour but itceas brief relief, etc. like a low dose maybe. Anyway, I just Tom a tab.
It was getting more hormone with levoxyl taking the 50. Going up now down again.
You were getting more t4, certainly. But, T4 is the storage hormone, not the same as T3, which is active.
The nurse isn't in on Wed. I was going to talk to her.
Do you really think the nurse would know anything about it?
But you re saying, not, if I feel good.
What??? Not what? Increase? You're hardly likely to feel good on 15 mg. We were talking about three grains when I said 'stop when you feel good'. Somewhere, between, say, 1.5 and 3 grains you'll probably feel your best, but until then, you kee increase by 15 mg every two weeks. Don't stop at 15 mg. Let's be realistic about this. lol
You obviously feel better than you have recently, but not 'good' in that you should stop at 15 mg. I'm getting worried now that you haven't understood anything I've said!
Who wrote this??
Tanya Smith, probably. I don't know. There's no name.
Its my thinking out loud in part sentences I think. 1)when I said I was getting more Levoxyl at 50mg I just meant more hormone 2 convert to T3 also but now I'm getting the T3 straight so even 15 mg isn't equaling the level and probably why you thought I could start on 30 and don't forget I was taking stuff before now. So I'm used to it a lot of stuff!2) when I said I was going to talk to the nurse oh, yes! She was more on the band wagon than the g p and she tested my ACTH and wanted me to see a sign Roy doctor irregardless of what the GPS said that I didn't need hormones because my tests were all normal so I can talk to her or go in and possibly get her to prescribe this it's not like a hypnotic drug that's the only thing she can prescribe or she can relay to the doctor without me getting in between3) I just meant, if I feel good at 15mg, youbsaid, don't increase for a couple of weeks, is all. I didn't mean I'd stop there and don't go to 1-2 grains or wherever I level at period...
Sorry I was dictating typos. I meant s the nurse told me to go see a endocrinologist and get more treated. She is a special type nurse just like a doctor degrees more I think?
1)when I said I was getting more Levoxyl at 50mg I just meant more hormone 2 convert to T3 also but now I'm getting the T3 straight so even 15 mg isn't equaling the level and probably why you thought I could start on 30 and don't forget I was taking stuff before now.
OK, but you have no way of knowing how much you are converting to T3 - it won't be more than abut 30% at best - so you can't know how much hormone you have. I thought you could start on 30 mg because your body is used to exogenous hormone. I wasn't making a comparison between T3 and T4.
3) I just meant, if I feel good at 15mg, youbsaid, don't increase for a couple of weeks, is all.
I said don't ever increase more than 15 mg every two weeks, whether you feel good or not.
3) I just meant, if I feel good at 15mg, youbsaid, don't increase for a couple of weeks, is all.
I said don't ever increase more than 15 mg every two weeks, whether you feel good or not.
Yes...I got that, ( understood you) I left out dont increase for 2 weeks but then if not improving do 1/4 grain. Or....stay there awhile if doing good...
Well.. Ok. Its bed time!! For you..and doggie too. Hope he go pees ok..:)So if anything happens to me, lol..I'll let you know taking that second tablet
makes 30 today, after all the advice of my mentor, I just got too curious. I've been on 15 mg 5 days so I thought I could chance it with the new pill not my old ones
Well...im just trying the 30mg. when my body just now was dragging ...I thought why not try the extrac15mg dose, to see, if 30 is too much. See how I react. You said that was the only way to be able to tell. And, wait to talk to the nurse/ doctor, or make any decisions... I have these tablets here and maybe we'll know more tomorrow?
Trial and error is the only way to find what's right for you. But, it has to be within the protocol. And, the protocol is you don't change more than once in two weeks. You can't keep going up and down in dosage. You'll never get anywhere like that. You're on 15 mg now. You really should stay on it for two weeks. Let your body settle down a bit.
Hmmmmm. Like I did the last 16 days onevo T4 only when I wanted Armour? Dr. Da ID no....now yes cause i pushed it and he didnt feel bad, I got to theses past 2 plus weeks, for nothing! I know. You always say one have to try it to find out and I tried T4 and I quit early, after 2 weeks, because I felt I found out enough, having taken at before now also, all my self-trys
This is the message I sent 51 min ago. I said 'Tom a tab ' That was supposed to be: I took a tablet....(15mg) I know, it's not good, but I'm in a tight spot I have to get myself on a dosage that is halfway decent to give me a little energy and if I'm dragging on the lowest dose I won't function here and be able to care for myself. I'm not functioning well, right now it's very hard. I'm trying not to risk too much and listening to your good advice I just thought tonight I could see how my body reacts to dividing a dose and upping it 1/4 grain
I went to see the nurse practiomer this a.m. she is much of the same mindset as the GP but nice, and put in the script for the 30mg tab so that's there. I put it in hold. At least now I have both 15 or 30mg. And could titrate to 30 or then 45. Shecput in my lab tests for later; they do 6 weeks she said. The Dr. doing 4 is unusual probably because, I wanted to just check sooner, or she said he's trying to check my antibodies because he knows I'm in range and I don't think he knows that this is not going to really affect, my anybodies.
You were right about my taking an extra tablet last night, I can't tell anything really from just one. I'd have to do much more and it probably didn't help me feel as good today. I didn't sleep a lot, but had much on my mind. But had energy to do laundry finally.
Good morning GG, its night here had sore mouth early today but not too bad, but tonight around 10pm bad mouth burning, eyes started burning. I took some B's early today. Had zinc after dinner. Doing the necessary supplements so im not low.
Could be the new tooth paste or the zinc and hope its not the Armour.Wondering if too low a dose causes this mouth burning and dry eyes? Last time I felt it like this was in Jan. after a week when I took 25mcg Synthroid only and then I think, had 5mcg.SR T3 with it- I woke up at night with a burning mouth for the first time. I don't think it's ever gone totally away since then. I asked about it back in January, and several people said it sounded like I was on too low a a dose of medication and were symptoms of under medicated.
I don't know about that.
I was also stressed today. Jitters from adrenals or, sleep meds. I know/read about burning mouth syndrome etc.)
I'm afraid I don't know anything about burning mouth syndrome. I've never heard of it as an under-medicated symptom - although, you will of course be under-medicated - but only as a symptom of low nutrients - especially vit D. Have you had your vit D tested?
That doesn't sound like a very high dose. But, I'm no expert in vit D. I would suggest you read through some of SeasideSusie 's replies to find more informtion on doses.
32 sounds rather low, but it does depend on the range - please, always give ranges with results, because they vary from country to country, and lab to lab.
Are you taking magnesium with your vit D? Because it needs magnesium to work properly. You should also be taking vit K2-MK7 with vit D.
What you eat has little to do with it. It's what you absorb that counts. And hypos tend to absorb very little, due to low stomach acid. That's why we all take supplements.
If you're taking extra vit D, then you need extra vit K2 - not K1, K2. They are different.
I will work on proper vitamins, combo. They just never made a big difference before. Did not increase my D3 but still trying. I chewed the tablet today. It took 9 hours to work past few days.
The ither old medication worked differently, always felt it after a couple hours at most.
Iv' e heard people who have had off batches of medication and told the pharmacist...
Sorry. The new script of Armour, not the old 15mg script I started with using 8 days ago. Tom the old ones 5 days...they worked fine. These new ones work but differently. Take aot longer seems like to go thru system. Thats why I chewed one today.
But, they're not supposed to work instantly. It's not aspirin. First of all, it has to get out of the stomach, into the gut; from the gut to the blood; and then it travels round in the blood - for quite a while, sometimes - before it gets taken up into the cells. 9 hours to work would seem like a miracle to me!!! More like 9 months.
No..lol thats not what I meant by "works" sorry. Its my thinking and thing in partial sentences again. I just meant that I felt a little of the effects of the T3 probably, and some calm, and energy to move, not the whole workings of this tablet or the weeks it takes to affect my system. I could daily have a little energy to do things is all I meant there was an immediate feeling better when I started and continued daily with the older medication
OK, well, perhaps that's more likely when you first start, because your body is so starved of thyroid hormone. But the effect doesn't last as your body gets more used to it.
Well, I thought that too, but still feel something and-aches and pains more. This its hard to observe easily due to extraneous medications But with all the odd variables ( sleep medications)similar I slept past 3am. Went to bed late but still- got past 3 to 5:15. So maybe got close to 5 hours sleep. Surprised me.
Q: How can I wait to increase after testing blood in the 6 week period, as another member mentions, if in 2 weeks I raise to 30mg?
Sorry, didn't read exactly what that other member said, so no context. Difficult to answer questions without context. Perhaps she thought you were still on levo.
With NDT, you can increase by 1/4 grain every two weeks until you reach 1 grain, then hold for six weeks and retest. That is the protocol.
GG, Ok, that I get. But do I not test blood at all until I reach a 1 grain dose...60mg in first 6 weeks but then hold 60mg for another 6 weeks? Thats the protocal, only to test blood at 12 weeks after I start Armour? Thats whats confusing. What if I don't go- to 1 grain. Like an example, I raise to 30mg and stay there 2 more weeks or longer.. I have to test somewhere if I'm not raising exactly every two weeks. Some people stop before. Do they wait 6 weeks from an increase from say,15 to 30 or 30 or 45? Or can they test in six weeks from just starting Armour. I may not be expressing this well.
I have to test somewhere if I'm not raising exactly every two weeks.
There's no point in testing anything in less that six weeks, because it will not have been fully synthesised by your body, and will therefore not give you accurate results. If you decide you want to stop at 30 mg, wait six weeks to test anyway - of course you don't have to go up to 1 whole grain if you feel good before that, but no point in testing before the six weeks on a steady dose are up.
No six weeks from the start of Armour, no. That would not give you accurate results. It needs to be six weeks from the start of the dose at which you stop increasing. Whatever that is.
Hi GG, hope your evening went well.. and the doggie is good. I'm still hanging in with 15 mg. Had some rough days, jitters mostly, very low mood. I tried one day with 30 2x15- not so good, with this tremor stuff. Last night I got Organic India Holy Basil at local grocery store (its on Amazon too) Took one, felt it right away. Adaptogen. I used to drink their basil tea a lot. Going to use it. Have to handle these jitters probably on my own. I took 1300mg capsule of Evening prime rose/GLA oil, and may wait on taking the EPO, try one at a time- its good for dht effects of levo, I know But I tried it long ago for hormone balance, and hair. Will see if helps with stress for taking Armour.
Be very careful with Holy Basil. I know it's an adaptogen, but I don't think the holy basil knows that! Adaptogens are supposed to balance hormones, but they rarely do. Holy Basil has a tendency to lower cortisol, even if it doesn't need lowering. It's really not a good idea to take it without getting a 24 hour saliva cortisol test first.
Also, you shouldn't start more than one new thing at a time. Leave about two weeks in between starting new things.
I understand, I read that too, and was considering it, Then read elsewhere it could help adrenal fatigue/and, high cortisol at night- I'm almost certain I have, from years of stress before I stopped sleeping, was worst, and this whole year. It or also Ashwaganda- Isabelle Wentz. But you're right. I have tried to find a saliva test place.
I had to do something yesterday, I was really loosing it with jitters constantly now. At least it helped my mood, greatly after taking it last night and today it was helpful. So...
(Saw the she doctor too yesterday-who ran all that blood work, because I had an appt to. She explained her tests and had misunderstood my concerns on some she did. Thought I was worried about neuropathy, and other, and why she did more B tests. And, I didn't bother asking her for an Armour script to keep extra on hand, like I had planned!(I wanted to be prepared if I needed it. )
Let's just say it's 'supposed' to help with adrenal fatigue. But, if it lowers cortisol that is already low, then it won't help at all.
If your cortisol is high at night, you need to know what it's like in the morning. Odds are it's really low in the morning, so, once again, taking Holy Basil at night won't help and could make it worse. If your cortisol is low in the morning and high at night, the thing to do is try and raise it in the morning, and then the night-time level will take care of itself.
I read this link below trying to check out blurry vision. I have been having it for awhile now and it seems to be getting worse. I've never had problems with my eyes except when doing thyroid medication.
And now its. been watering eyes, want to rub, don't/they are sore, dry probably. I know you think this is a reaction but I had it on the levo in a different sort of way, my eyesight wasn't blurred it was okay. I also had pain in chest today like heat, and palpitations or fluttering. It's been a pretty miserable, scary day. Like I needed the ER. They won't help this.
This condo makes it worse for stress, can't stand well inside my own place. I do better outside or at the store. Strange, but how it is. (I do have feet neuropathy but its tolerable, but kitchen floor and carpet areas in 2nd level bldg. cause pain pushing me down, so I lie down in-between. ( I know this situation is stressful for trying out thyroid medication but trying to get well)
I read the replies in the link below, have no idea if I'm under dosed, or jittery because I'm not accepting the medication. Don't know if I'm having hypo symptoms and hyper sensations. BP 114 , 117/69/78
Temp 97.6 felt hot for a bit now chills, but lying still not moving.
I'm still on 15mg. I can get the 30mg tablet sitting at pharmacy but I don't think I'll tolerate it. I tried (2) 15 mg other day.
That was seven years ago. Our collective experience and thinking has moved on since then. You can't judge cortisol status by one reading. And, you don't even have a nighttime reading. 4.30 pm is not a night reading. And, it's not even that high, anyway. You need more comprehensive information before you can decide what to do about your adrenals.
I read the replies in the link below, have no idea if I'm under dosed, or jittery because I'm not accepting the medication.
What do you mean by 'not accepting the medication? That sounds a bit weird. Of course you're under-medicated. You're hardly taking any thyroid hormone at all.
Its 2am. I woke early. I'm not being clear. Or we're just misunderstanding each other. I do, know, that post was a 8 yr ago, response. I have others that used this for adrenal help, spoke about the one test on file, a mouse study 20 yrs ago and they hadn't seen anyone with hypothyroidism having lowered t4 or problem with basil, but they did- inform this. Do you know of some that had problems?( I didn't take it yesterday anyway).I know-- I'm on a low dose, we've discussed that a lot, the point was I can't raise it...I can try...to double again, today or go get 30mg pill but- I don't have adrenal help here. I'm considered normal. And if I found a saliva test ( I haven't) that showed me low at night when I wake up, like now, which "feels" like a spike, or increases one should get at 6am-8am - then? I can't take adrenal support. I'd need a functional doctor if I am that bad to give me something,... medication, etc. which you said, is a last resort. I also have stuffy nose/ sinus. It used to not bother me I would fall asleep, but now for15 mo. I don't fall asleep. I'm stuck on lunesta sleep med, to sleep that I could stop taking- now and, not sleep at all and I may react with withdrawals like stopping the mirtazapine, I wrote I've stopped.( It may cause this -shaking.)
I'm in a pickle...much depressed, as I want this to work; but so de-energised to cook shop, eat, that's a problem too. And I just noticed these little red hard bumps scattered on fore arms and thighs, lying here tonight that itch if I touch. lol. Not a lot and far apart. I thought it was a bite but then looked on other forearm, then legs...
feel the sore feet from pins/ needles just lying here so don't wish to stand.
So-I don't know if I should take the
Armour 15mg right now, or get the 30mg at 9am., or just Take this day off. Yesterday I was just- ill. Ate small, Its the end of my rope but, holding on.
Well, I must confess, I do find you very hard to understand at times... most of the time. Never really sure what you're saying, so just answer what I think you're asking and hope for the best.
Do you know of some that had problems?
With Holy Basil? Yes. SeasideSusie
I don't have adrenal help here. I'm considered normal.
Yes, with the results I saw, you would be considered normal. Your early morning test was lowish, but not low enough to warrant Hydrocortisone, if that's it that's what you mean by 'medication' (it's a hormone) but that really is a last resort. It's not a good or easy thing to take. If taken wrong it can shut your adrenals down permenantly. And, it causes massive water retention.
And, I certainly - personally - wouldn't trust a 'functional' doctor with my adenals! They have such strange ideas. We read about them all the time on here. It's quite frightening, sometimes.
So, you need to help your adrenals yourself: lots of B vits, lots and lots of vit C, plenty of salt, good protein as soon as you get up in the morning - take your thyroid hormone later, but eat first. Forget adaptogens because at the moment, you don't really know what you're dealing with, as far as your adrenals are concerned.
or just Take this day off.
No, you can't do that. You can do that sort of thing on levo only. But, on NDT, as it contains T3, you need to take the same dose every day without fail if you want it to do anything for you. Chopping and changing and taking days off just isn't an option with NDT.
Sorry for all the misunderstandings, but I am trying.
Its ok.. 👍 if I'm not understood, I will communicate more.. I realize its bad to stop a day. I didn't take it yet at 3:45 like I have been.. Can I wait til 9- to get the double 30mg and take that - (you read what I said about that.) What about the vision problems worsening greatly, and skin bumps, itching,...? Signs of a sensitivity reaction is what I meant. Can that dissapate or is it telling me something?
I checked Seaside Susie all her posts so if you have one you want me to read you could give me the link. But that's one person. Reason I'm asking is I could try one H. Basil capsule because I just don't want to take any- medication if these jitters continue, I'm trying to stop the medication, the mirtazapine might calm the Jitters but then I'll be hooked again.. And since I must continue NDT. I just don't want to harm myself further, that's why I give you physical details. Keep in mind I really have- no doctor who will help.
I have an endo apt. next Friday, who the GP's nurse referred, But she may be not thourough either, like the others I've gone to so far, I am trying to find someone.
What about the vision problems worsening greatly, and skin bumps, itching,...? Signs of a sensitivity reaction is what I meant. Can that dissapate or is it telling me something?
It probably is telling you something. But, I've no idea what.
Keep in mind I really have- no doctor who will help.
None of us have! We may have doctors, some of us - not me - but I doubt they help much. In fact, in my experience, they just make things worse! I'm sure that if I'd never seen a doctor in my life, I'd be better off - healthwise - today than I am. I've never seen a doctor that didn't make me worse in some way. I hate the lot of them!
I checked Seaside Susie all her posts so if you have one you want me to read you could give me the link.
Not one in particular, no. It's just that she says over and over again, that Holy Basil will reduce your cortisol whether you need it reduced or not. Frankly, I think that adaptogens, and their supposed balancing act, are a myth. Yes they will raise or reduce hormones, but not according to your needs. Their effects just seem to be random. I've tried several and they all make me feel worse rather than better. I haven't had blood tests to see exactly what they did, but they didn't do what I wanted them to, that's for sure. I now avoid them like the plague.
Take Holy Basil if it makes you feel better. But, be aware that that could change at any time, because you're just stumbling around in the dark, no even knowing what you want to achieve, let alone how to do it.
I understand. I may hold off then with the HB.What about the 30mg waiting to dose and raising when I feel so bad?
This not sleeping is getting seriously rediculous and nit helping my thyroid. Its 4,:30am
I did take one1300mg prim rose oil capsule Thurs. also. Won't do that again! That may have caused a reaction. ( I'm just trying for relief, risking a try.)
I had a bit of nausia and other effects cant recall. Short-term memory is gone LOL I was just reading about that taking too much T3 causes short-term memory to disappear"High T3 Levels affect Memory, Language, and Math Ability – Tired Thyroid: Fact or Fiction?" tiredthyroid.com/blog/2012/...
Been on 15mg, 2 weeks. 2 days I tried the 30mg taking 2 from my old bottle and new bottle of 15mg ndt. Felt the hyper feeling.
Right now...I feel better than I was feeling( didn't take dose at 3:45am.) I'm not saying that is a good thing - just stating.
At 9am can buy the 30m..(pharmacy hrs.) Thats late to dose.
I don't even want to take it or buy it today. Terrible feeling to try this hard to get Armour then feel so bad after I felt fairly good 3 days on old bottle. From the T3? But it did make me energized, though nervous as time went.
I hate that web site!!! Nowhere do they say what exactly they consider to be a 'high' dose of T3. I take 75 mcg - at the most, I took 225 a day! - I do not consider it has affected any part of my brain, ever. I've always been good a language, and terrible at maths. Still am, and I expect I always will be. Nothing to do with the T3. What they are describing are actually hypo symptoms, I would say.
OK, so you're going to say that they mean too much T3 for the individual. Well, that could be. But, you are only taking 2.25 mcg. What are the chances that that would be too much for anyone? Pretty low, I would say.
Been on 15mg, 2 weeks. 2 days I tried the 30mg taking 2 from my old bottle and new bottle of 15mg ndt. Felt the hyper feeling.
Trying the higher dose for just one day is hardly going to tell you anything. What exactly is this 'hyper feeling', anyway?
Well, you've been on 15 mg long enough to increase if you wish. If you don't want to do it right now, that's OK too.
At 9am can buy the 30m..(pharmacy hrs.) Thats late to dose.
It doesn't matter that it's late. Better than not taking it at all.
You are so fortunate...you can take the T3 so easily. You figured it out what you need and its so easy now fir you. I wish. I'm going to raise...but I am having eye problems and the memory is- out the door this week- and terrible jitters. And right now this hour im enjoying less jitters.
Not that fortunate! It took me over ten years to find out what I needed. Ten years of my life that I'll never get back. Ten years around the time I was finishing work and retiring, and hoping to spend more time travelling and writing, etc. But the reality was that I couldn't even face my own retirement party, I felt so ill. So, no, sorry, I don't consder myself to be in the least bit 'fortunate'.
You are correct. I understand truely. I read your profile and still said you are fortunate but I understand it's all in a person's own reality and losses. It has to be. We are very much in the same way. I've had it worst since 2007 but also sudden symptoms since 1986, 1995-1997, then all the hashimotos symptoms but I was road traveling summers, many years, interviewing people in small towns across US, and writing for future books, which I can't do or put together now. I had a self employed photography business, I kept up, and- terrible 2-3 days sinus inflamations, since in bed fasting almost every month, the hair loss, fatigue, anxiety, yet was always slender w/ normal tsh, no one said anything, I had maybe 5 physicals in my life. I was healthy but with these disabling symptoms, since 86 and 95-97, I just- crashed at least a year or more with fatigue, anxiety, got thinner, couldn't work anymore, couldn't sleep, tried regular/ natural doctors, vitamins, tinctures, but recovered while 4 mo. in Australia and 2 months in Florida. Then it got worse after 2007.-2012. And here I am wishing I could recover this worst bout, and admire, that you have. To me, you're fortunate you found something. And I know it was more. than just- ten years for you.
I hope my other message didn't drag on you. I was in my car.
I'm still now staying away from my apartment, to be calmer, w/o that discomfort, after I took the 30mg. I was ok until 3.75 hours, and have the shaking inside and faster racing feeling, is what I again, meant by saying hyper ( and we surmise is adrenal.)
Yes, exactly. Why, I said surmise. I was trying to write a short note, to say good night to you, I had more but saved my thoughts...because its bed time there, and I wanted to tell you first off, I was interested in your telling me what yiu did today, and you were away, I saw, for 6 months, prior to writing with you.
I wanted to tell you, you can private message me, any time. (pm, if thats what they call it here?) I don't know if you do that, just telling you, please feel free as I'm interested in things you tell me of yourself, or, if only relating experiences, good or bad that you don't need to say on a post. I know you have a lot of comunication here...
Yes, it's bedtime. But, strange as it may seem, I'm waiting for the dog to wake up. Right now, he's alseep half in and half out of my bedroom, so I can't shut the door. But, usually, about this time, he wakes up and comes into my office to sleep on his bed in here. Then, I can shut the door and go to bed! lol
Last night I was having a very strong reaction with runny eyes, tingling ears, face mouth, other syuff can't recall, before going to bed. I took an antihistomine I already had here I recalled I used for a sleep medication hydroxyzine 25mg. It did alliviate pretty quickly. ( Shaw- UK member said to take one before taking Armour and if it helps then something in Armour (filler etc) is causing a reaction.healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
Today after medicating at 4:30am I felt ok even 4 hours later not jittery. I still have hydroxyzine an anti anxiety also, in me probably. And also still have the small red bumps but no worse. I had yougurt banana drink with a little whey protein, not much, and thought yougurt is high histamine and wanted to see hoping I would be ok as I always have yougurt even though lately I've been going dairy free. Well I reacted strongly in about 30 minutes. Seems I developed a histamine problem I never had. I was fine with dairy. Not lactose intolerant. I just cut it out to clean up diet in case, while doing medication.
My hope was I could come to tolerate the Armour- there is no NDT here to switch to. And doing a compounded NDT is expensive and variable. Also I could be intolerant of Levo or T3 etc.
This was online mind you there were many others not just this account.
Oh, please!!! Unecessary thyroid medication? Who the hell has that?!? It is so so difficult to get a diagnosis it is highly unlikely that anybody is taking 'unnecessary thyroid medication'!!! They hand out antidepressants - which are far more dangerous - like sweeties! But with thyroid medication - underactive thyroid being the likely cause of any depression - they treat it as if is was pure gold from their own personel reserves! This idea of 'Unnecessary thyroid medication' is just a doctor-generated ruse to get more people of it! And, it makes me very, very cross!
The histamine thing is just nature's way of telling you there's some sort of filler in the tablets that isn't agreeing with you - which is what I've been saying right from the start.
I meant to send the Wentz link I was looking at the other one...lol I knew you would hate it. :)Anyway, what do you think...about the rest of what I wrote. I don't have any choice here except a compounded NDT.
I wrote I wanted to try to stick with Armor, but now that I'm reacting and can't eat other food that has nothing to do with the armor fillers does it? I should be able to eat the yogurt I would think? Is this possibly temporary?
I don't see what the yoghurt has to do with the Armour. Why should you be able to eat yoghurt? There can be several things that you react to, one doesn't rule out the other. I'm sorry, I'm not following your logic at all.
It could very well be temporary, yes. Once you get onto a decent dose of thyroid hormones, it could very well go away.
NP was recalled. I will check but I think it's still gone and the others, WP are gone or there were reactions to it too.. I tried NP August 2020, my 15.g was recalled. It was a minor thing but I didn't like it much, who knows now. It has one less filler. It made me jittery too I know that. Armour is really the best NDT here. Wentz, Dr. Amy Meyers etc...the official sites discuss our options now.
Ok, about the yougurt, I wrote that I was eating it fine. Its a high histamine food. I take Armour. Armour can lower something in the body, it starts with a "D" can't find it now. (Don't laugh.) ....it basically said it could lower the balance, and raise histamine in the body. I have to find it.
You're reading my mind I was going to say, for you it's Erfa? No one would know of that here, unless they were on your forum probably.
Ok....heres the "thing" I read,
"that not only do thyroid meds (synthetic thyroxine) raise histamine levels, they also lower diamine oxidase and monoamine oxidase, the enzymes responsible for metabolising histamine and tyramine (respectively).
Circulating levels of 5-hydroxytryptamine (5HT), histamine, monoamine oxidase (MAO), histaminase, tri-iodothyronine (T3) and thyroxine (T4) were studied in L-thyroxine and carbimazole treated rats. Increased concentrations of 5-HT, histamine,...."
"Effect of L-thyroxine and carbimazole on blood levels of biogenic amines in rat - PubMed" pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/790...
Also:
"Thyroxine-induced supersensitivity to histamine and norepinephrine activation of cardiac phosphorylasea - ScienceDirect" sciencedirect.com/science/a...
OK, so just stop eating yoghurt. I don't see what else you can do. You need the thyroid hormones, you can't live without them. You can live without yoghurt.
I totally get what youre saying. I'm just -getting (fearful) of making myself worse (and worse. adding on symptoms.) I'm doing best I can.I'm sticking to it. T4T3 to help this poor gland...but it keeps retaliating. I was hoping I just need now to restimulate receptors like you said, maybe -they've just been "dead" for so long. I thought taking an antihistamine last night and having it work, I could use that until my body gets more used to the Armor as I get to optimal dosage. Anotger member brought that up.
I guess I got nervous after eating yogurt and having anxiety, burning mouth and eyes stinging and face tingling again right then because I felt better before eating the yogurt does this mean I cut out those foods now- Ive developed an intolerance to them now- is my real question.
.I'm sticking to it. T4T3 to help this poor gland..
You're not helping the thyroid at all. Thyroid hormone replacement has no effect on the thyroid itself, it's not going to make it better.
but it keeps retaliating.
What? Of course it doesn't. It's not doing anything at all. I don't think you've fully grasped the concept of thyroid hormone replacement. What that does is replace the hormone your thyroid can no-longer make to keep you alive. It doesn't cure anything. It doesn't have any effect on your thyroid at all, and your thyroid doesn't in any way affect your thyroid hormone replacement.
I was hoping I just need now to restimulate receptors like you said, maybe -they've just been "dead" for so long.
They haven't been 'dead', they've been switched off. But, the longer they've been switched off, the longer it's going to take to switch them on again. It certainly isn't going to happen in a couple of weeks. And, it certainly isn't going to happen on the tiny dose you're taking. At the moment, you probably aren't even taking enough to replace the small amount your thyroid was managing to make before you started replacement hormone, but starting the replacement hormone has shut down your thyroid so it isn't making any at all, right now. So, what has happened, basically, is that you've had a reduction in your available thyroid hormone. And, that lower level is just about able to keep the essentials - like heart, lungs and brain - going. It certainly isn't about to start switching on non-essentail receptors.
I thought taking an antihistamine last night and having it work, I could use that until my body gets more used to the Armor as I get to optimal dosage.
Ok..I was joking when I said, I was trying to help this poor gland and its retaliating: that was a joke...but since you took it literally..thats fine, I still got information. Same with "dead" I did mean turned off, Switched Off I couldn't think of the term so put dead in quotes... (Kinda like in the movies "slitting someone throat" is killing the guy but the person who doesn't do these metaphors says: why would I slit their throat? Sorry, that was in Guardians of the Galaxy movie here .)
Ok. So...I had, the concept but its good, you tell me again. Because--I hate (half joking) hearing my body is operating on less hormone therefore less T3, than it was before. That sucks. I know it but it does bother me. Shutting it down to get a synthetic replacement? Seems too weird. (...by retaliating, I meant my body, actually, and metaphorically, my throid, won't accept the medications, just meant, I'm sensitive to everything. Next time I'll just say that. ) Sorry, my humor doesn't travel cross typing or countries, but my humor is off, anyway.
I was getting to your reply about the yogurt; to clear that up on the other reply. I didn't have a bad reaction to the yogurt that is what I was trying to tell you. Suddenly now today, I'm reacting to it and the only thing I've done different is taking the Armor these weeks...con't..
I know it but it does bother me. Shutting it down to get a synthetic replacement? Seems too weird.
Not to me it doesn't. It's the ony way to do it. You could, of course, start on a higher dose, but given your history, that might not have been an option for you.
Why does everyone get hung up on the word 'synthetic'. It's exactly the same chemical structure as the hormone made by your body. Besides, you're not taking synthetic, you're taking NDT.
Sorry, my humor doesn't travel cross typing or countries
I don't know about that. But jokes tend to be more obvious on here. There was nothing obvious about your jokes, I'm afraid.
I didn't have a bad reaction to the yogurt that is what I was trying to tell you. Suddenly now today, I'm reacting to it and the only thing I've done different is taking the Armor these weeks...con't..
But, I cannot see any way that taking Armour would affect how you react to yoghurt. That just doesn't make sense. Or was that a joke?
'Sorry, my humor doesn't travel cross typing or countries'
I don't know about that. But jokes tend to be more obvious on here. There was nothing obvious about your jokes, I'm afraid.
I'm working on the yogurt replylol..but I had to answer this.. that's what I meant, my– humor doesn't "travel well,"
you have to see my facial expressions, and know me, that's why I said also: it's"off" ...I sometimes have dry humor, or cynical...so, its not always- obvious, its how I say it, not how its typed..and, as you say, maybe not like others on here. ( so, wish you could hear my voice and see my smile)
I find you funny.... And cynical...and all, the emotions. :)So to summarize,
Not to me it doesn't. It's the ony way to do it. You could, of course, start on a higher dose, but given your history, that might not have been an option for you.
I meant its weird we have to shut down the thyroid for us whom it still works well enough and go through the pain of increasing dosages and getting used to them rather than just being able to supplement some extra. Shutting down something to me is not good I'd rather build up what I had and I'm talking theoretically. Paul Robinson mentioned that in the future we might have a contraption on people that would just dose them at the bio- times just like a thyroid does. Like: Synthetic hearts? synthetic thyroids..
Why does everyone get hung up on the word 'synthetic'. It's exactly the same chemical structure as the hormone made by your body. Besides, you're not taking synthetic, you're taking NDT. They get hung up for this very reason they want things to be natural the way the body is now
What. I meant was: any, replacement seems weird. NDT, or levo, or T3, is replacing my -thyroid hormones, shutting off my- thyroid, I understand it for people who don't have a working thyroid at all. Theoretically speaking; It should be 'added to,' if its missing, like supplements add to our own production...why its not that way I don't understand, guess all science medicine has, is we have to shut it down fully to make any replacement.
...rather than just being able to supplement some extra.
Well, it's not done deliberately! That's just the way the body works. You can't just supplement extra, because when you take extra thyroid hormone, the pituitary senses it, reduces TSH, and without TSH, the thyroid won't make hormone.
What Paul Robinson is suggesting won't change that. The reaction will still be the same.
Theoretically speaking; It should be 'added to...
Well, as I explained above, it just doesn't work that way. And, even if you have a thyroid that is still making a little bit of hormone, if it's not making enough, then you have to take over with thyroid hormone replacement - or be very ill. Sick thyroids just get sicker - with Hashi's they continue to be attacked and get smaller and smaller until they die. Are you suggesting we should wait until the thyroid is dead before starting thyroid hormone replacement? You'd be very, very ill by that point. Might not recover - or not completely, anyway. No, that's just the way it is, and at this point in medical history, we can't do it any other way.
Well...ok. sigh... I think you were just reading my mind. I was ready to write to your other reply about: stop eating yogurt because I have to take the medication:
I was smiling and thinking Its not the yogurt I was concerned with today, it was the observation that I had to take an anti histamine last night to ease the symptoms, and then I read about thyroid medication increasing histamine. And then I tried to eat something with histamine and suddenly unable to tolerate it, just now, today. So like I said earlier I just seem to be making my body worse and worse adding symptoms not lessening them at all yet.
So I feel inept, its not clear cut what I need. But here you just said, I do need it, because it will be destroyed...
Not surprising it's not lessening your symptoms yet. You're only on a tiny dose. It takes time: time to keep increasing your dose til you get to the right dose, times for your body to process and use the hormone you're giving it and repair all the damage that's been done and switch receptors back on, etc.
But, no, it's not making your body worse. You're not taking anything unnatural, just replacing what your body can no-longer make enough of on its own. It's hormones, not a drug.
It is- making my symptoms- worse so body feels worse off today..Taking it. So in observing this, Shutting it down more is adding-hypo syptoms, and feels like it. Histamine intolerance, more pain, jitters, anxiety etc. ... when I stay calm, I'm still here shaking in my boots what do I do take more meds to counteract it? :)Just stating what its doing...
You said this the other day:
Not sleeping is not good for anything, but your thyroid is out of the equation, now. Nothing is ever going to help it again....
does that mean..what you' re saying here in a nicer way. lol.......
So I'm just guessing.
Boy... I have little faith. Full of red little dots on my body and other- new reactions. Can't do this.
But be happy I'm stopping it from being destroyed...(humor mixed with sadness)
It's really not unusual to have an increase in symptoms on starting thyroid hormone replacement, or even developing new ones. It should all sort itself out as your dose increases.
Not sleeping is not good for anything, but your thyroid is out of the equation, now. Nothing is ever going to help it again....
does that mean..what you' re saying here in a nicer way. lol.......
Yes. There was never anything you could do to help it, anyway.
Evening, GG, I was feeling ok, Sunday evening, after getting your last your replies, thanks for those. I felt good later evening.
Not sure what's happening now, though. I took anti -histamine hydroxydine - at 2:30am. I woke earlier than my usual 3:30-4am (had a bug reaction on eye from a walk late Sun.) I took it at bedtime Sat for eyes and any Armour reactions to sooth them and was ok Sun. Ate yogurt monday one more try and seemed ok but not today just in case.
This afternoon now I'm shaking, very -anxious, touching anything cold from fridge stings my fingers, hands, getting chills, went outside a moment, felt too warm, needed AC, then got very chilled, again. Feel pretty sick, nauseous, no appetite, but ate some, extremely- fatigued, very, shakey, tremors, some heart palps. This doesn't seem like normal (feel worse) symptoms. I had to leave apartment sit in car or into store, feeling too shakey, sick.
I wonder if the nausea could be due to low stomach acid. Hypos often have low stomach acid, and when acid is low, the food isn't digested properly and ferments in the stomach. That can cause all sorts of symptoms, including nausea and lack of appetite.
Well, I don't know. if suddey now could be.. but I also feel sick, I'm getting real warm then cold. Its not hot out. Cloudy. My eyes and face feel weird, sting. Feels like an allergic reaction or flu without cold symptoms, but I never had flu! Just guessing.I shouldnt be out but too nervous to lie still. Its a reaction to something- I did eat, but feels funny in stomache now too, had bites of chicken, veggies.
I will try baking soda...GG. But...I think there is more going on than just stomach acid here! I'm feeling too sick: eyes, face head, dizziness, had that rash..(.its not -worse.)Same little red bumps a few on each thigh and forearm. Really-- dizzy too. This is the worst ever...lol trying to
laugh.Do you think its the Armour or both A. and sleep medication reacting..
No, I don't think it's the Armour. I've never heard of anybody reacting to Armour in that way. I don't know about the sleep medication, though. Sounds to me like you have some sort of bug.
I don't know if it's any consolation, but in my experience, people with severe symptoms always think there's 'more going on'. And, there rarely is.
That helps to hear that... Cuz this felt like I had to go Emergency...if it got worse...I just can't figure why all these. different reactions. A bug would be nicer than Covid. Stomache is lesser of symptoms.. I've stayed pretty isolated...but did eat this burrito with pork nut that was last wed? that maybe wasn't good...and the meat was sitting out awhile...I hope u r right...
I don't know if it's any consolation, but in my experience, people with severe symptoms always think there's 'more going on'. And, there rarely is.
That really helped last night..I'm still here.lol
I hardly slept. Woke at 1:30..don't think I slept more, 2 1/2 hrs. But took 30mg be for 4am and kept busy reading until felt better around 7am and ok this morning. It seemed like a bad hay fevor, type of reactions but I've never had hay fever so I'm guessing and I searched and read some of the posts which gave me the similarity of of symptoms.
Taking the hydroxyzine anti histamine the other 2 nights to see if I had reactions to Armour, I think I reacted to that too.
I drank a little baking soda in water after we talked and that handled the stomache nausea.
You are still up! yes, I totally understand that but I was doing it to check for other things I have handled in the past, and just wanted to see if it helped last night and it did. Also thank you for your support yesterday that was really, really rough. ( I didn't know what was going to happen today.) I have a question (for tomorrow..) Youre sleeping ... or resting,I hope.I am wondering today, because of all this extreme of a little better then its all down like you said it can be; and worse too...is it wrong to increase some before 2 weeks? If I'm having these hypo symptoms, and if I can tolerate it now, I understand I need to go slow but I can feel when it starts getting bad and felt good the day I did doses around 10:30-11am. If I took half a 15mg or 1/4 grain more, is that Only wondering because I'm so low dose and really felt the effects today being "calmer" in the morning but need this so I can sleep more also possibly.
It is really, really not recommended to increase faster than 1/4 grain every two weeks. I know it feels like you need more - and you do need more! - but your body needs time to adjust to what you've just given it before you give it more. This 'wisdom' comes from thousands of people taking NDT over more than 100 years. So, I think we ought to listen to them.
Yes..ok. I wrote more to you while you were responding to me...:)How about a week to 10 days....lol. I really hear you, about the two weeks though. I'm just having issues getting anything done. (I had to turn around and come home)
What I was trying to ask which was not clear, if I take a small dose at 10:30 11 a.m. besides my 30mg at 4am, is that pushing too much. since it hasn't been two weeks but only five days.I dont think I'll only need 30 mg to handle this but I've seen some people only taking that, but as you said that's such a little amount. I recognize I have sensitivity and some people start at 1 grain
GG, Later afternoon yesterday I was very fatigued, and had very- heavy chest feeling, tightness after only going to grocery store. It was a lot.
I took my 30mg at 2:15am, and wanted to try a seperate dose at 7:15am before eating. Its only been a week on 30mg from the 15mg. My years of symptoms; everything we've discussed, I can only judge I'm not at optimum on 15 or 30mg.- soan increase now, instead of waiting a week could help worsening chest tightness, fatigue, and sleep or make things not- good.
Different doctors suggest 1-2 weeks before increasing 1/4 grain. But I know you're against that, others are also. I feel calmer now today, 8 hrs. after my 2nd 15mg dose but it doesn't mean I will remain so.But it has helped me get thru the afternoon jitters and fatigue I have, without this later dose. Doubting my decision is what makes me very-nervous- uncomfortable.
I just saw a new lady endocrinologist I waited 2 months to see but knew what the outcome would be and it was. She was referred by my GP nurse and, wanted me to stay on 30 mg., 45 was way too much, and so 30mg for 6 to 8 weeks. Then test it. I did explain a bit what I was doing, but she's going by the book and even explained what Hashis was, and that my symptoms could be caused from something else not hypothyroidism. I stopped her from explaining- everything. They think we don't know anything even when I tell them what I've researched, and that there are different views. And why I came to meet her to find out hers.
everything we've discussed, I can only judge I'm not at optimum on 15 or 30mg.- soan increase now, instead of waiting a week could help worsening chest tightness, fatigue, and sleep or make things not- good.
Well, of course you're not on an optimum dose! You cannot possibly hope to be on an optimum dose after only three weeks of taking the hormone. It can take people years to find their optimal dose. BUT increasing too quickly can send you right back to the beginning and having to start all over again.
Doubting my decision is what makes me very-nervous- uncomfortable.
Well, it's early days, so you might just get away with it. But it's not something to get into the habit of doing! The higher the dose gets, the slower you should go. It is so so easy to miss your sweet-spot.
she's going by the book
I don't know what book that is - it's not one I've ever read! lol Or, she's just got confused - they do get confused very easily. It's six weeks between increases for levo only. Two weeks for T3 and NDT. That's because on T4 only, you're entirely dependant on conversion, and that's the time it takes to reach maximum conversion - and TSH adjustment - for each dose increase. It's really not necessary to wait six weeks between each increase in for T3/NDT. Only when you get to 1 whole grain. Then you hold for six weeks and increase.
I've heard some terrible things about the average US endo. Sounds like this one is true to type. I don't know how any of you survive!
Hello GG, I want to tell you only good news results. But I did the 45 mg. 2 days, 30mg at 3:30 am and 15mg at 7,:30am. and had worsened sore eyes/dizzy, and sick, Sat. And good all Fri. But I had a normal temperature for once for 2 days. 98.8 or 98.6 and was very warm not cold, yet- my BP measured very low. Sleeping still only few hours.
I went back Sun, to the 30mg I did a week. I write you I increased to 45 early, because of chest tightness, hurting, on 30mg. The chest at least, stopped hurting, for the 2 days.
At 30mg yesterday my BP was really- low. 94-95 then later104/60-64/ or 85-78 pulse. I was still very dizzy couldn't get up/ go out. I was still hot/warm, with normal temperature.
Today I'm back to feeling cold. I waited 3 hours, to 6:30am to take the Armour. I felt better not being sick, not dizzy for that 3 hrs so I put off feeling bad again.
1 hr later felt dizziness head pressure anxiousness and very cold; body temperature, 96, low BP 102 and pulse 60.
Something kicks in at 2 hrs. Could it be the small dose of T3? It only lasts a while. Thats why I tried the extra 15mg at 7:30am and it made things calmer all day Friday. But worsened me Sat.
Could I be observing anyT3 helping me feel better? Its a shorter lived thing but I feel calmness not jitteriness. Then it worsens again and I get the dizzy/anxious. I'm confused about T4 if it helps to smooth the T3 or I'm showing reaction to T4 build up. Adding the extra 15mg felt good at first plus increased body temp even if not feeling as good second day. And chest wasn't hurting.
What can I say. You know you aren't doing yourself any favours chopping and changing like that, all you're doing is making the healing process longer.
Low temperatures and low BP are hypo symptoms. Obviously you are still hypo because you're only taking a small dose. Blood pressure should rise with the increase in dose. But, some people find their temperature never gets back to normal, even when they're optimal dosed. Their thermostat is definitively broken.
Could it be the small dose of T3?
It could be, yes.
I'm confused about T4 if it helps to smooth the T3
I'm afraid I have no idea about that. It must do for some people, but we're all different.
or I'm showing reaction to T4 build up
I doubt your T4 has built up very much with the low dose you're on.
I really would advise you to wait at least another week before increasing your dose again. But, when you do increase, stick with it! Don't chop and change.
GG I haven't. written. But I've stuck to my dose of 30mg which I totally understand is necessary and I'm over two weeks now. But having awful feelings internally, burning in eyes and for awhile now have added puffiness, or bags under each eye- it looks like fluid is being held there under the skin, and that concerns me since it could be allergic reaction but also kidney symptom as my right side under rib cage is aching the last few days. Much anxiety, from the medication, I worry what to do. Yesterday I got a b12 shot. My last b12 before medication, April 20 was 721. No range given. Maybe that was not good to do, but in Nov. a shot did calm me. Today I have mixed effects, nausea, dizzy- now calming me, too. I just didnt say, why I was feeling rushed with dosing myself, I'm not at all anymore- I've been scared I couldn't take care of myself here. I'm barely cooking and eating. I didn't want to be more hypo. I'm reacting with new symptoms and miserable on thyroid, more than I was before and just seem to be worsening 61/2 weeks 45 days now on thyroid medications. And its hard for you to advise this.I found a saliva testing kit from a Pharmacy but it will take 2 weeks, dont know if I have that. I feel allergic or its a sensitivity to Armour, each day feel fearful taking it. But feel trapped and was hoping its just temporary sensitivity . Its not good to stop but have no one to go to for support. Don't see any-alternatives.
There's an allergist private MD who does thyroid too- I've seen him-
I almost want to run over to see him before he leaves at 4pm. Don't know if looking at me, he could tell anything my rash is now not really visible. My eyes he could, see. He's the one that gave me NP NDT to try last Aug.
Ps. (I feel sad I'm having to even tell you all this) that I'm very, weak, hardly sleeping and having chills. Then I turn AC back on, as I get warm, but feel cold inside. I feel suffocating, not hot. Outside heat doesn't bother me as much as it was. )
Don't feel sad. That's what this forum is for. But, to me, you just sound hypo. It's all very familier. It will get better with time. But, you must stop pannicking with every symptom. It doesn't help.
I wish you were right, and it will get better in time. And, I am panicking now. Can I tell you why..? Because I don't just, feel-really bad, that would be easier, I have pain tolerance. But I've expressed that I cant live here in my place and you may not be recognizing my other symptoms. I've said, I can't stand up. Do -anything without heavy pain.
My neuropathy, scoliosis, and mainly- not sleeping is a huge issue if you're not considering this. Anyone would panic, weakened by no sleep 1 1/2 yrs and then try to start thyroid ndt, really exhausted. & instead of slight relief, getting more pain. My gosh. (Picture no sleeping. Not able to keep steady at a sink. Sick to your stomache.)
I dont think I am able to increase. It really bothered me to increase the time I tried to. And that was last weekend.People I talk to feel good in some small way at very least, then may feel hypo again and they increase they don't just feel bad. And worse and worse when they increase. I didn't feel good on 30 at all- yet. That was sad.
Can you really know this for certain whats going on with me?
I said my eyes were really dry, burning up, I don't want to loose any eye sight. I skipped one day after trying 15mg more last weekend. Yesterday I took 15mg, because the thursday 30mg dose hurt all day so much. I've had to skip a couple days not together, I mean, but to let things cool down. I read that on the tpauk.com if feel t3 build up to much.
But I've expressed that I cant live here in my place and you may not be recognizing my other symptoms.
You're right, I don't recognise that as a hypo symptom. That doesn't sound like a symptom of anything I know - except that you don't like where you live. But, I don't know what you can do about that, except move. I don't think that has anything to do with hypothyroidism.
I've said, I can't stand up. Do -anything without heavy pain.
Those could most definitely be hypo symptoms.
I dont think I am able to increase. It really bothered me to increase the time I tried to. And that was last weekend.
Ah, I'm sorry, I thought you'd been on that dose for two weeks. So, it's not time to increase.
People I talk to feel good in some small way at very least, then may feel hypo again and they increase they don't just feel bad.
But everyone's different. Don't compare yourself to other people. It depends how long you've been hypo and all sorts of other things.
Can you really know this for certain whats going on with me?
Of course I can't!!! I'm just trying my best to help. I'm not a doctor, but it sounds like doctors aren't doing a great job of helping you, either! So, why would I be able to?!?
I said my eyes were really dry, burning up, I don't want to loose any eye sight.
Sounds like you have Sjogren's. Have you see a professional about your eyes? I really can't imagine that the NDT has anything to do with it. Why would thyroid hormone make you lose your sight?
I skipped one day after trying 15mg more last weekend. Yesterday I took 15mg, because the thursday 30mg dose hurt all day so much. I've had to skip a couple days not together, I mean, but to let things cool down.
OK, well, I cannot imagine that that is going to do you any good at all. You can get away with that sort of thing with levo, because it's a storage hormone. But not T3. If you want T3 to do anything for you, you need to take a steady dose every single day or the body just isn't going to recognise it.
I read that on the tpauk.com if feel t3 build up to much.
Sounds like rubbish to me. How in god's name can the T3 'build up too much'? It can't. T3 doesn't do that. And, certainly not on just 4.5 mcg.
So, what do they think is your problem on tpauk.com?
Message got sent before I finished.. I can't live in my place, I meant, I can't do everyday things here because I have so much pain standing up, and it's an enigma no one, doctors, can figure it out yet so I am better outside or at stores but not in many apartment I've tried to and some houses I'm okay but I sold my house because I couldn't walk on that floor in an old house either and that started in 2019 and before that I was fine walking on hard floors Etc so also, the other symptoms I've got make it hard doing everyday things like showering cooking eating in here. I do want to move but I think I need to figure this out because I could just get another place and have the same problem only hear it's really bad on the second floor. Next thing. Yes, I have been on 30 mg 2 weeks, I meant, I tried 45 mg for two days after a week on 30, couldn't do it, or thought I couldn't because I had it in my mind I shouldn't after what you said. I'll send the tpauk.com link, to you, it wasn't saying to sip days UT was talking about increasing.., you cancer what you think. Regarding my eyes, I never, had any dry eyes or mouth burn with my Hashimoto s symptoms until-I experimented 7-8 wks, taking thyroid meds TT4T3 or t3 or levo last Dec. Now I have something and I hope it resolves, and not now Sojogrens, because I'm on thyroid meds once again....con't.
I can't live in my place, I meant, I can't do everyday things here because I have so much pain standing up
OK, well, that could still be due to your thyroid. Lots of people have problems standing and walking. I found CBD oil helped a lot with that.
I meant, I tried 45 mg for two days after a week on 30, couldn't do it, or thought I couldn't because I had it in my mind I shouldn't after what you said.
Well, you were right! You shouldn't have done it. You're just prolonging yur healing by chopping and changing like that.
Regarding my eyes, I never, had any dry eyes or mouth burn with my Hashimoto s symptoms until-I experimented 7-8 wks, taking thyroid meds TT4T3 or t3 or levo last Dec.
I think I must have said before somewhere on here, that that doesn't prove a thing! I does not mean that the thyroid hormone replacement is to blame. It's perfectly 'normal' to find we have new symptoms/allergies/aches and pains when starting THR.
not now Sojogrens, because I'm on thyroid meds once again...
Not sure what you're actually saying, here, because this sentence doesn't makes sence, but if you do have Sjogren's, thyroid hormone replacement is not going to get rid of it, it's a seperate autoimmune disease.
Well, I've started reading this thing from TPAUK and was brought up short by this:
5) The most biologically effective way to take the Erfa Thyroid is by placing the tablet between your gums and cheek. This way, it is absorbed directly by the tiny capillaries that line your mouth
That is just not true. The thyroid hormone molecules are far too large to pass the mucus membrane. You just suck it til it melts and then end up swallowing it anyway!
Swallowing also brings stomach acid into contact with the Calcitonin in NDT
It's highly unlikely that there is any calcitonin in NDT. The thyroid doesn't make huge amounts, and what there is probably doesn't survive the pill-making process, anyway. I know people go on and on about NDT containing all the hormones the thyroid makes, T2 and T1 etc. But the thyroid only makes miniscule amounts of these two, because most of it comes from conversion. It's not even certain that they serve any useful purpose, anyway, they're just by-products of the recycling process for iodine. If the tablets contained them in any measurabel quantities, it would be mentioned on the label.
I do not entirely agree with their instructions on increasing - but, then, I would not have told anyone to start on half a grain.
I can't see anywhere where it says about stopping and starting if the T3 is 'building up'.
Its after "Three weeks" ...I'll look tomorrow and send...you were up a bit ago? lol. I am going to bed now. trying to get sleep somehow...I only get 3 hrs no matter when I take meds to fall asleep.I understand people have trouble walking and will reply tomorrow. Also yes... I've tried cbd; it doesn't work for me, I really tried to use it. Different kinds of it, and brands, for sleep, but it didn't help that or anything else. One kind helped me fall asleep, a short while, then all of it did the opposite, kept me awake.
Tonight, I spoke too soon about my dose increase.
9:04am I took the 45mg
12:16 Chest pain and constructing tightness. It subsided some at 2:45, but was there all day. At 4:30pm I crashed, my chest got very heavy, had some nausea, head achy. By 5:13 chest pain was bad- breathless. That lessened at 7:20pm thankfully. I feel pressure, and breathing faster. But sleepy at least.
2 1/2 hrs each time, I felt this.
I don't know when I'll try to dose tomorrow. Usually I do 3:30 am but was late today deciding whether to start 45mg.
While I was feeling this chest pain this afternoon early evening I thought I'd have to stop doing 45mg. Now that I don't feel it I want to chance trying again tomorrow but it was scary. If its adrenal, I may be just stressing my body with thyroid hormones if I don't handle cortisol first- if its low. But I sense my saliva test would not be, extraordinary. I could be very wrong. But my other cortisol tests am pm and ACTH am/pm were all in range- at least says I have, cortisol showing up.
If its adrenal, I may be just stressing my body with thyroid hormones if I don't handle cortisol first
There are other schools of thought:
a) that taking T3 will, of itself, redress your adrenals
b) that you can address the adrenals at the same time as taking thyroid hormone.
You are stressing your body by keep chopping and changing your dose.
my other cortisol tests am pm and ACTH am/pm were all in range
Doesn't mean they were optimal. They could have been too low in range. But, no hope of finding those results in this thread now. It's got far too complicated to find anything.
The morning results are a bit on the low side, but nothing drastic. I very much doubt that is your problem. But, it wouldn't hurt to take some sort of adrenal support - but be very, very careful which one you take! You want what we call a glandular, not a glorified multi-vit with adaptogens.
About the CBD oil. I'm very surprised that it didn't help. It did wonders for my attaxia. So - no offence - but I can't help wondering if you took enough of it, or took it correctly. Please forgive the following questions:
* did you start on a low dose and work up slowly?
* did you take it several times a day - CBD leaves the body after two hours?
* did you shake the bottle vigourously before measuring your dose?
* did you empty the dropper back into the bottle before screwing the top back on?
* did you take it at least two hours away from all other medications and supplements - four hours away from anything that reacts to grapefruit?
Regarding CBD, I took it to help sleep last spring,/summer, did it low dose, the shaking, dropper, etc. but I did not dose all day. I did not continue because it has a weird effect on me.
My problem is not the actual- standing. My legs are still fairly strong from all my past years exercise, walking a lot and gym. In the house I bought, I fought against a weighted down feeling when I entered it or stood in the kitchen or any wood floor room. I can't explain this phenomenon. But living there I got pins and needles in toes at first -then it got worse. I still feel the pressure pushing me down like a big weight is on top of me in this place now too. I can do simple exercise or balance on one leg, etc. Not doing it though, because I'm frail, thin right now. The scoliosis, hips out of alignment, could be making it hard to stand even though that didn't affect me, before this house.
I hope t3 can re-address adrenals
or addressing adrenals while taking NDT also. Many have the adaptogens, ashwaganda, herbs, etc. that you don't like. This adrenal supplement was given to me last summer by a private doctor. Made me jittery, I only took one. Can you name any, maybe from Amazon or ingredients from one you know.
The scoliosis, hips out of alignment, could be making it hard to stand even though that didn't affect me, before this house.
You should see a chyropractor, they can realign your hips.
That multi is rubbish, like all multis are. They're not actually designed to help anyone, just to make as much money for the manufacturer as possible.
Just taking one or three B vits is not going to help because the Bs all work together and need to be kept balanced. You would be far better off with a good B complex.
You do need magnesium, but 50 mg is not going to get you very far, you need more like 350-400 mg.
Rhodiola and tyrosine are unlikely to help adrenals.
The lyophilisised adrenal tissue is probably what you want, but it would be better to take it seperately, not in a multi.
It's not a good idea to get supplement advice from doctors because they don't know any more about it than the average man in the street. They don't study nutrition in med school.
"How to Treat Using Natural Thyroid Extract | TPAUK" tpauk.com/main/article/how-... # 14, 15 talks about adrenals. Then, further down (after Day 8 and Three Weeks,in bold type,) she says some things regarding what I was trying to express without you knowing it. I was just thinking it and typing.Today I took an extra 15 mg tablet w/30mg and felt ok the first 2-3 hrs. Then had sudden major chest pain, tightness, much dizziness, a little nauseous for a bit.
And just waited. Still feel chest pain, its a bit less, and tightness, and breathless. I could stand up for a short while better.
The T3 gave me energy on 15mg but none really on the 30mg increase. I was just starting to feel really- bad.
This reaction "seemed" extreme, like a stessor on the heart. I realize my body isn't used to it. TSH will be suppressed further, I realized too. And dosing up is important. I hope taking it tomorrow is ok.
(I'm watching my rash dots too, they almost started showing up again, a bit. Very strange.)
Hi GG,...I'm always glad when you can write more than short replys, if u have the time because I like, re I can clarify the context- the typing I sent I knew, didnt convey what I meant, it not same as talking. What I meant, Context
Ps. Im going to get the 30mg tablet to see if it makes a difference just by being a different tablet from a different batch then the 15 mg tablets I got 2 weeks ago. It shouldn't make a BIT of difference it's all armor but I'm trying to change a variable LOL I even thought the pharmacy's supplier may have goofed up because the new 15mg pills I received I didn't feel as well, as the old ones made me feel good. And the old ones were a year old -but I'm not taking them..
Ps. Im going to get the 30mg tablet to see if it makes a difference just by being a different tablet from a different batch then the 15 mg tablets I got 2 weeks ago. It shouldn't make a BIT of difference it's all armor but I'm trying to change a variable LOL I even thought the pharmacy's supplier may have goofed up because the new 15mg pills I received I didn't feel as well, as the old ones made me feel good. And the old ones were a year old -but I'm not taking them..
! I'm sure that if I'd never seen a doctor in my life, I'd be better off - healthwise - today than I am. I've never seen a doctor that didn't make me worse in some way.
Ps she didn't say to stay on for six weeks, said to check with NDT people how it goes, but what ever dose I am on, do I have to wait 6 weeks? Thats whats confusing. If I'm raising the dosage- before any tests (being on Armour.) Such as 30mg or 45..Do I just stay on 30...
You won't get a true idea of how your body reacts, anyway, because your poor body is all shaken up with all these changes you've been making. It needs a little stability before you can know how well it can handle an increase.
" Doesn't matter what you call it, it still sounds like an adrenal problem..."
if it is-adrenal, what needs to be done?( I'm in range. ACTH, Cortisol am pm tests.) Do I see someone else? since doctors here, aren't figuring this out with my adrenal or one will think I'm hyper, etc. Do I go see a private functional MD? Will I take hydrocortisone shots? Just asking. I don't know what is needed.
"I don't really think he knows enough..
...Yes, you should take it slowly... you didn't really stay on 25 mcg long to know..."
Ok. I understand. Just a bit stuck. Try 25 or skip a day and do 50. I'm still nauseous feel ugh, and checked side effects. There can be nausea on any levo /or my Levoxyl. (Or it was the 4 tangerines I had last night. Ha). But, I'm trying to think what to say to this GP doctor: reaction to ingredients, not levo, as you said. Or may also be t4. Oh dear. Any, suggestions. I still need to tell him, he's the only doctor prescribing thyroid hormone, did you mean I have to find another- doctor? (I'm trying to) but still have to communicate with him now. see what he'll do or say?
Depends what the problem is. High or low? And, when?
When did you have your adrenals tested?
Do I see someone else?
Well, if you can find someone else. But, I understand how difficult that is.
Do I go see a private functional MD?
That wouldn't be my first choice. They don't tend to know any more about thyroid than any other doctor, but they do have some very funny ideas.
Will I take hydrocortisone shots?
HC comes in tablets, not shots, and should be a very last resort. Very, very low cortisol.
Try 25 or skip a day and do 50.
Comes to the same thing, as T4 is basically a storage hormone. Doctors have been known to force their patients to take it all just once a week! That's not a good idea, though.
checked side effects
The side effects you see listed on the PIL of a packet of T4 tend to be due to taking too much or too little. Not really side-effects of the T4.
But, I'm trying to think what to say to this GP doctor
Just tell him the truth. Tell him your symptoms. Ask if he can suggest a different solution.
Hope you'll be, Sleeping Well, your doogie too.. (if you saw my message I hope my questions or thoughts don't exasperate you -I know I'm frazzled, repeating) zzzZ
Just having another read through last night's post. Not a lot I can say about it, actually:
but didn't know what to give myself. Still don't.
I would say you're doing the right thing by starting on levo. Many, many people do very well on levo only. But, even if you don't, you will have learnt something.
A functional, Doctor "S" had given me the NP. He was less expensive and also first wanted to work on minerals and gut issues and go slow. And then do thyroid.
Well, I would have said he was right. If you have gut issues, you'll have difficulty absorbing the exogenous hormone. And, if you have low nutrients, it won't 'work', anyway.
Stopped the other hormones when starting t4t3, but was told I didn't have to-stop. I thought they might interfere.
Why would they? Your body naturally has all those hormones in it. And levo might work better for you if your other hormones are optimal.
I know how I sound- impatient and indecisive, complaining- I hope not..!
Well, you certainly sound impatient! Which I can understand. But, there are no short-cuts where hormones are concerned.
I saw my hair was coming out-it was already over doing that these months because of dht yes, imbalance for a long time.
But, how do you know it was dht causing your hair-loss? You didn't explain that. It could have just been because you were hypo - it's one of the major symptoms of hypothyroidism.
My fingers were tingling, numbing when I was warming some food last night
Low B vits?
I know wrong medication can cause this much stuff, too.
What do you mean by 'wrong' medication?
I feel T4 is just Big Pharma, may be so, especially now for me.. I only mean. Like my meds with side effects.
Not sure what you're saying, here. Levo is a bioidentical thyroid hormone, T4. That means it has exactly the same chemical composition as the hormone made by your thyroid. The fact that it is synthetic is neither here nor there. Lots of hormones we supplement with are synthetic.
I know that T4 is a hormone. But it has plenty fillers and theT4 is synthetic, just a tiny amount in the tablets.
Of course it has fillers. You can't make a tablet without fillers. T3 also has fillers, as does NDT - yes, we call it 'natural' but it's not as 'natural' as all that!
As for there just being a tiny amount in the tablets... There's the amount marked on the packet. If it says 25 mcg, then there is 25 mcg T4 in each tablet. There has to be. So, that really isn't any sort of an argument against them. If you want more, you take a larger tablet, simple as that.
And this Levoxyl or Synthroid T4 is the "new kid,' not for everyone.
T4 is T4, no matter what the brand name. It's the active ingredient in the pill and does not change from brand to brand. The fillers can change, though. That's why it's important to try different makes to find which one suits you best.
Of course it's not for everyone, nothing is. But, it suits a hell of a lot of people. It's just we oddballs that congregate on here. We are not representative of the thyroid public at large.
The not knowing if T4 is ok for me, or being used by my body, to get T3 to cells drives me batty
I don't suppose much is getting into your cells right now. For a start, you're only on a silly little dose. And, secondly, you've hardly been on for five minutes - in thyroid terms. It take time.
Now you can handle T3.
I imagine I always could. I just wasn't given the chance. I had to fight to get it.
All the people here are needing thyroid medication. Having some problems but also, already on- a medication.
Not everyone, no. A lot of people on here are fighting to get a diagnosis/be prescribed.
(I know my anxiety could also be from hypothyroidism.)
I would say it's almost certainly from hypothyroidism. That's another one of the major symptoms.
but it feels not right,
What doesn't feel right? Hypothyroidism doesn't feel right, that's for sure!!!
...So answering two of you replies here, saliva test I could go get. But im exhausted and unable to do much and doctors dont do it. I could order it but, what will it help me do after, say im low at what 6am? Or high when I wake at 2-3am? Your info what to take to help is good...havent done Adrenavive? Tried a adrenal support supplement made me solo jittery! Called Physica- Adrenal LF has adrenal tissue 250mg bovinevin it! Some B's Mag, Potassium, and herbs...tried once awhile back and bovine integers with throid med no?Stomache acid I think ok....no pros but constipation. but foods, veggies and bean soup help. Could have a weak place in esophagus, but didnt run a gut Dr. run an endoscopy down it long story -had an unnecessary CT scan in ER: thought, I was blocked up constipated, last summer healing my hip- it was the food at rehab, eating just meat, few veggies. I wasn't!
Other message you sent said I have to take hormone replacement no matter what. That's because you think. I'm hypo
Ok....them if we go with this hypothesis that I've been hypo with normal range T4 and T3 never going low that means my half thyroid is producing these hormones and the T3 but I'm having all these side effects and no doctor will ever find it due to ch, or adrenal fatigue which they don't believe in so? I'm just going to self dose here and assume I have hypothyroidism. Since I exercised ate really well, and got worse trying thyroid meds but also LDN especially didnt work....is that what yiu re saying? If so I need to replace the thyroid hormone before the diet stuff I mean I'll eat real well but I need to what? Wait and wait to adjust a dose and be miserable with the side effects I'll try to stay calm and keep taking it when do I increase this 50? Been lying still all morning in bed working- that gives me less jitters, dizziness dry eyes mouth burn can that go away with more meds? What if I only need 50
How will I know?
Blood tests you will say. And then more tests..lol
Called Physica- Adrenal LF has adrenal tissue 250mg bovinevin it! Some B's Mag, Potassium, and herbs...tried once awhile back and bovine integers with throid med no?
Not quite sure what you're saying here. Are you saying that all those things were in the adrenal support? Not good. If a supplement has more than one ingredient, be very, very wary. These multi-type things will almost invariably contain something you should avoid or something you react to. Keep it simple, that's the golden rule for supplements. Herbs are very iffy, because some of them can have the opposite effect to the one you want.
Take a B comlex, with nothing but Bs. Take magnesium and potassium seperately. There are rules for taking supplements, when and how, if you want maximum absorption. And never take anything at the same time as your levo.
Stomache acid I think ok....no pros but constipation.
Constipation can be caused by low stomach acid. Try the home test at the end of this article:
Other message you sent said I have to take hormone replacement no matter what. That's because you think. I'm hypo
Well, yes. Your labs are saying you're hypo. And, you have Hashi's, so things can only get worse without thyroid hormone replacement, not better. Eventually, you thyroid will be completely destroyed and you will be entirely reliant on exogenous hormone.
Ok....them if we go with this hypothesis that I've been hypo with normal range T4 and T3 never going low that means my half thyroid is producing these hormones and the T3
But, your FT4 and FT3 ARE low, as I keep telling you. And we can have no idea how much of your thyroid is still capable of producing hormone. But, even the bit that is still capable is not working to full capacity because it's not getting stimulated by the appropriate amount of TSH.
no doctor will ever find it due to ch
That's sort of true, because doctors only tend to look at the TSH, and outside Europe, they have no idea that you are hypo when your TSH reaches 3, because it's still within the range. It's the range at fault as much as the doctors.
But, eventually, your Free levels will fall below range, and then they will have to take notice.
I'm just going to self dose here and assume I have hypothyroidism.
You don't have to assume, you do have it.
when do I increase this 50?
Depends when you feel up to it. Somewhere between 6 and 12 weeks on the same dose.
What if I only need 50
That would be very unsual. The average dose is around 150 mcg. Only a small minority need just 50.
How will I know?
Blood tests you will say. And then more tests..lol
Look, I'm sorry, but I didn't make the rules. That's just the way it is. I'm just trying to explain the best way to progress.
Thanks Allie ....I think I am going to try armour .... my vitamin levels weren't free so I have worked on them but still no difference after few months... my ferritin is actually quite high.over 300 so definitely no lack of iron ..🙄 just fed up....
I understand very much how you feel. But to me you are very fortunate. You are able to tolerate levo and get some- relief. Or get relief with jitters! I haven't had any relief yet, even tried LDN and really reacted to it even though everyone says there's no side effects from low dose Naltrexone. After my self trial of thyro meds, I've wished to drive to another state for any good Doctor care.
I hope, you can take Armour. Have you read (UK) Paul Robinson's books....Recovering with T3 is one, there's 3 books he wrote. You can also contact him for coaching on taking T3 or Tt4T3.
I didn't get any relief from levo ...waa on it soo many years and felt awful ..pains in legs / joints ...lethargic almost the time ..swelling ...and weight gain ..it was only when I moved up to North wales a new doctor said to Me.. you clearly do not convert T4. This was the first time I'd ever heard anything like this ...she mentioned t3 ..again never heard about it ...as all I ever did was listen to docs saying you need to increase levo even though I'd sit there practically tears saying it's not helping me... and I didn't even know what else was out there at the time...so after this doc told me and sent me to a new endo ..who did new blood tests and confirmed hashimoto... she would not prescribe t3 as they only continued giving it to patients already on it. My doc went mad and sent me another one in a different county but same story. She actually mentioned NDT to Me ...I started doing research and eventually sourced ndt. The first one I tried did not work ..Thyroid.. then went onto TR Man and it was like magic ..pains went ..I wasn't tired or constantly yawning and I lost about 30lbs in weight ..over a long period of time... but then after a year it all stopped and symptoms came back ..I had increased ndt to 4 tabs a day spaced but wasn't good so eventually I stopped. My vitamins weren't great but I did rectify them and still didn't work..and the ndt dried up ..so now in the situation of the what the heck do I do next... I was contemplating trying LDN 🤔
TR Man ? (I am in the states.) Curious. Were you hypothyroid? Or diagnosed with Hashimoto s when this all started,? What is your tsh, t3, t4, antibodies when they put you on medication.
Do you realise you've posted this reply 5 times?!? lol I think you should delete the four I haven't responded to because this thread is already much too long. Don't know what happens when threads get too long, but I'm willing to bet something will!
The scoliosis, hips out of alignment, could be making it hard to stand even though that didn't affect me, before this house.
Have you tried going to a chiropractor for all of that? I saw one a couple of times, and his hands worked magic!
Are the floors in your place uneven? I lived in a flat in Paris for a couple of years, where all the floors in all the rooms sloped down towards the middle of the room. I didn't notice it at first, but did find it increasingly difficult to walk. In the end, I was creeping round the outside edges of the rooms, terrified that I was going to end up in the flat below!
You most certainly shouldn't be exercising the state you're in! Nothing more than gentle walking.
That's a very weird supplement. You'd be better off taking a full B complex - no point in taking just one or three B vits, they all work together, so you need the full compliment. And, magnesium, of course, is good for all sorts of things. Although 50 mg isn't going to do much for you. You need more like 350 to 400 mg.
Doubtful rhodiola or tyrosine are going to do much for your adrenals. But the lyophilised bovine tissue is more like what you want. But, take them all separately, You can't expect to get much joy out of anything when it's all stuffed into a single pill. Multis are always, always a bad idea - and certainly a waste of money.
I don't know if there is an actual limit for replies on a thread but, as the number increase, so it takes longer and longer for anyone to download and view the thread. As it has been going on for over two motnhs, those involved are ending up simplying churning the thread - downloading 340+ replies, reading and, maybe, adding their comments. But just doing that again and again.
For that reason, I shall close this thread to replies.
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Where on range should I be please?
When taking T3 should FT4 levels still be in optimal range 
Should I switch to T3 only?
Taking 25mcg levo once a week
