Severe sickness on day 3 of armour?

I took my first dose of armour on thurs morning 1/4 grain broken down from a 2 grain pill. Another dose on Friday morning. Have felt really tired. Woke up at 5am with an extremely dry mouth which developed into severe stomach cramps close to the pain of contractions and severe nausea. White as a sheet and extremely weak. A few visits to the little girls room. It did finally pass. My concern is was it the armour? I'm not sure whether to take it today or not?

42 Replies

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  • Where you only taking 1/4 dose per day - equal to 50mcg of levo? What was your dose of levo.

    If you've had a reaction to Armour, if you try this (I have read about this procedure) take 1 antihistamine tablet 1 hour before your next dose. If you have no reaction after you take Armour you are allergic to something in it and will have to change maybe to Nature-throid which is hypoallergenic.

  • I was on 75mcg of levo. I haven't been taking it alongside no, just the armour. If it was a reaction to the armour would it happen day 1 as opposed to day 3? The last time I took a dose was

  • Contd. was Friday at 5am. Just wondering whether it could be armour or just a stomach bug? I've looked at side effects and they say diarrhoea and stomach cramps but not nausea. P.s. I'm not a sickly kind of person normally.

  • Could it be due to something else (virus?) and not connected to Armour. Could it be Armour beginning to build up? Could it be due to the lower dose, i.e. 50mcg instead of 75mcg?

  • I don't know. Yes it could be a bug as my partner and son hD a similar bug but that was two weeks ago. I'm really hoping it's not the armour as I want it to work. Should I take half a grain instead of a quarter today or miss a dose completely. So confused

  • It is difficult as you don't know for sure which caused the problem.

    Normally, if on levothyroxine you just switch over to the equivalent NDT i.e. as 2 grains is equal in effect to about 200mcg of levo, 75mcg of levo would mean about 2/3rds of a half of the 2 grains. If after, say a week, you could increase to half tablet bearing in mind I am not medically qualified. I hope you feel better and not too nervous about taking Armour again. Also take a record of your pulse and temp several times a day.

  • I feel cold but in my opinion given my fitness my pulse is too high. It's 80 where I think it should be nearer 60. I have noticed before I switched to armour I'm more physically aware of my heartbeat but I'm not having palpitations. Anxiety has crept back in though and brain fog/tiredness

  • I had that sensation initially when on NDT but it did settle down. It might be the T3 within it raises your pulse slightly but it should settle within a few hours I think. Also I think it's the sensation of being aware of your pulse that's a bit strange. They say a 'normal' pulse is between 60 and 100 and you say it's not palpitations, which is good.

  • Just one more thing sorry, is it ok that I've stored the cut up pills in foil? And should I stick with a quarter grain until the seven days are up or switch to half?

  • I think it is o.k. to store the pills in foil.

    If the 75mcg levo you took and you were still not well I would take the 1/2 gr of the 2gr Armour tablet which would be equivalent to 100mcg levo. Take note of how you feel, i.e. too hot, sweats, palps, reduce down next day or miss next day's dose. I think you'll be o.k. After two weeks increase your dose again and so on till you feel good.

  • Thanks Shaws. I'm praying it was just a bug. As I've missed this mornings dose should I skip altogether today do you think or take a half grain at 3 when my stomach will be fully empty. I promise this the last time I hassle you 😄

  • Yes, I think that will be o.k. rather than miss a dose altogether as yesterday's dose might have been a bit small.

    No hassle at all :) someone will always answer.

  • It was just a bug thankfully. Thanks again for your support x

  • That's a big relief for you. It will be good when you begin to feel really well again. In case you've not read this to try to get the best out of your meds:-

    STICKING WITH TOO LOW A DOSE. For a myriad of reasons, this happens often for those on NDT or even T3-only and will make you feel even more hypo due to feedback loop suppression. Have one of these been true of you?

    a) being held on a starting dose longer than two weeks (such as one grain, 1 1/2 grains or less)

    b) being bound by the directives of a TSH-obsessed doctor. The TSH lab test only keeps you sick.

    c) failing to get a raise of desiccated thyroid until the “next labwork”, which can be weeks and months away

    d) following an inaccurate Synthroid-to-Armour type conversion equivalence chart.

    e) being afraid to go higher!

    stopthethyroidmadness.com/m...

  • I was gobsmacked when a) the Endo said my next blood test will be in 4 months time! (I'll go under my own steam after 6/8 weeks on maybe 1 and a half to 2 grains depending on symptoms. B) I could go straight in yo 2 grains the next day!

  • Before the blood tests were introduced along with levothyroxine, people were diagnosed on clinical symptoms alone (which all medical students were trained to recognise) and given NDT, gradually increased till patient was well. No blood tests only on how the patients' metabolism responded to the dose and they felt good again.

  • Quick update as I'm now day 5 away from levothyroxine and I've started back with panic attacks (only a couple admittedly) I'm going to jump to one grain split into two doses. Woke at 3am feeling my old friend Mr anxiety/witching hour wake up return. I've taken a dose at 4am which calmed me down. The second reason was that STTM states a starting dose would be 1grain with an increase after 2 weeks of 1/2 grain increments. I would've thought that as T3 has a short life I would know fairly quickly when it gets too much or am I being thick? Anyway I'm freezing and achy with a higher pulse that seems to slow also after dosing. Im most definitely more hypo than anywhere near hyper! P.s. Brain fog is causing me to keep questioning even my own theory but staying on a 1/4 or a half isn't good. She (STTM) also states that you shouldn't rely on the conversion tables. Yee gods it's like wading through mud 😝😝😝😝

  • It is difficult I know and we are apt to rush too much and have to be patient. Forget about T3 having a short life, in fact it's job is to get into each and every receptor cell (we have billions). Thereafter it's effect continues between 1 and 3 days so - first it is potent and is the active hormone. T4 is inactive and is supposed to convert to T3 too but doesn't always do so efficiently.

    T3's job is to saturate each cell so that it can begin to work. That's why Dr Lowe's patients only took 1 dose of either NDT or T3 daily. I follow his protocol and am well (T3 only). He says splitting doses is not scientific but everyone can choose what they want to do.

    Before blood tests came in along with levo, patients were treated on their clinical symptoms alone, given NDT till they were well - it must be gradual. So the best test is how the patient 'feels' not the blood test results as doctors mistakenly believe.

  • I took a half at 4am as I said I'm wondering whether to just take the other half now and chew it as I've had a tea and a coffee with cream? I believe if you chew it it doesn't matter if you have it with food. Pretty desperate as I've got a day with an active 2 year old to get through. "Heyulp" not sure I can cope with stiff neck/arms and feeling poo for another 8 hours!,

  • No, Jody, you cannot take any thyroid medication with food. Your stomach has to be empty as food prevents the uptake of your medication.

    If you have eaten the minimum is 2 hours either side of taking hormones. If you've had a meal with fat it is even longer.

    I am also not sure about crushing/chewing tablets at all as they are made to dissolve in the stomach. That's why we take them with 1 glass of water. Desperate people do desperate things :)

  • Very good advice indeed. I think I'm going to opt for 1 grain tomorrow in one dose as taking my iron after that is easier than if I dose twice on a day and I think the iron is crucial to NDT being successful. I checked with Endo and they still insist 2 grains is my dose. However I'm going to space it over the next six weeks I think unless I feel truly dreadful. I can only assume that given my age/ lifestyle my little ticker could take it x

  • Iron has to be taken 4 hours apart from thyroid medications. I take all supplements/meds 4 hours apart, just in case any can interfere. No-one can possibly state the dose which will suit a person until they actually feel well when they reach a certain point. Our bodies are all different and therefore doses will probably be as well. There is good info on this link re Armour (or NDT).

    web.archive.org/web/2010103...

  • Duly read. Interesting discussions. Especially the worry that some Endos have (not mine he's wanting me to jump straight in at 2 grains) about the. t3 peaking too much and causing heart problems which he says is unfounded. I'm assuming my fitness level (I do HIIT training) would help my heart adjust to any so called peaks. Fascinating stuff Shaws. Cheers

  • Hi Jody. My pulse goes to 80 and over when I'm hypo too. It happened when I was on 1 grain

  • Tell me about it! I could hear my heart beat when I lay down at night. We are panicked into feeling ifyou are overdosed you will get palps when actually that's going to happen when you're undermedicated. So you start low get palps them worry you're overdosing and lower or give up!

  • Yep!! I think for some people who are hypo, their heart beats faster, because it's having to work harder due to lack of thyroid hormones. Before meds, I always had low blood pressure but 80/90 pulse. I know they say to 100 is normal but when mines over 80 I get palps and it's not nice, as you know.

    On the right thyroid meds my pulse is 60-80 and no palps.

  • I got really ill on dessicated thyroid..Erfa and Armour, both flared up my Hashimoto's badly.

  • Thankfully it turned out to be a bug and not the armour so I shan't be chucking the towel in just yet x

  • I am having the same thing as you. I've starter taking Thiroyd from Greater Pharma 6 days ago and started with half a grain in the morning and a quarter in the afternoon. I then had an evening of anxiety so switched down to a quarter in the morning and a quarter in the afternoon but I feel really nauseous with it and I'm sure its the tablets. The only other thing I've added is selenium 200. all other vitamins I've been taking for 2 years. Not sure whether to stop and give up or to up my dose and see if that helps?

    Its all very confusing!!

  • Honestly? I'd up your dose as I've jumped to a full grain this morning and feel peaceful. No more obvious heartbeat. Didn't bother splitting the dose as its too faffy. What amount of T4 did you used to take or is this your first medication? How's your heart health in general?

  • Just a thought if you're still cold and anxious I think maybe step it up, if you're hot and anxious then step it down. Temperature is key to knowing whether it's working. Anxiety is horrible. It makes you question everything......

  • Hi, Thanks for the reply. I was on 100 mcg of levo - recently upped as my TSH had risen to 3.6 from 0.24 where I was happy. I think I'm going to try half a grain am and half pm and see what happens. I'm still cold and anxious rather than not and still have hypo symptoms. My temp this morning was 35.5 so still a bit cold. I will let you know what happen - watch this space..... x x x

  • I was on 75mcg levo and my Endo prescribed 2 grains and he's adament I could go straight in on that. I however took the advice to go slow at quarter grain first but after 3 days felt awful. I then swiftly moved within two days from a half and now one grain. My peace as I call it is coming back. If you read Dr Lowes take on it he feels Endos (not mine obvs) can be overly cautious with T3 worried it might cause heart issues to which he states is poop. If you hover too low for too long you're going to suffer unnecessarily I think. Who told you to take it so slow?

  • I'm doing this on my own so getting advice but not with an Endo. Sttm website suggest starting at a low dose and working up. Today I have taken half a grain this morning and half a grain this after noon - I am feeling wired but ok so far. x x

  • Wired is different to anxious I think

  • How did you get on overnight, did you sleep ok? Any improvement x??

  • Hi, Feeling much better today, slept ok although I was really cold. waking temp was 35.6 I have found that If I take the half grain with water instead of sublingually under my tongue then I don't feel so ill and I think the wired feeling is from the T3 as my body is still getting used to it. Other than that I have far more energy and generally feeling like I will be able to go back to work soon and be a productive person! Its such a mine field, 2 days ago I was ready to throw in the towel and go back to the dreaded levo! Thanks so much for the support, its really tough having to try and do this alone x x x

  • Like I said I was on 75 levo but my t3 has dropped rather than climbed so maybe the Endo was happy for me to go straight to 2 grains for that reason? Im still just taking 1 grain morning only. Can't wait to get to the 2 grain dose and fighting all my instincts not to do so..... I believe its 1-3 days to feel the therapeutic effect so you'll probably have a better day today. I'm day 3 and feel like I'm getting close to "normal" as in anxiety but sliding backwards in tiredness. But that's due to one grain only being half my optimum dose xx keep me informed on how you go. If I can help I will

  • Are you in the uk? I'd love to get an Endo to help me but the last one I saw - 3rd from the same NHS team actually said to me " so many women leave my practice with the same symptoms as you, however, we cant blame all our symptoms of thyroid now can we?" with a really patronising smile!!! I could have punched him. What I wanted to say was, well your a really crap endo and your not listening to your patients or treating them properly but I smiled and left and never went back!!

  • I complained for 10 years plus at my GP. Only one locum thought my results were not quite right. He of course was temporary. Another said. What do you want me to do? As I sat and sobbed. Another said of my constipation, just take more laxatives! Ah gee thanks! Another said I'm premenopausal (just had a baby). Yes I'm in chester in the UK. Where are you?

  • I'm in Haslemere in surrey. The NDT is definitely causing a bit of a tummy upset today but im hoping that this will settle down. Did your do the same for you at the start of when you upped your dose?

    xx

  • Can you be more specific if it's not too personal? I.e is it nausea tummy pain or rushing to the loo? I've struggled over the last few days cos I've got a bug. Chesty, sore throat but also off my food a bit (not like me) and pains in my stomach with the occasional wave of nausea. Who knows? It is hormones after all ........

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