Muscle and joint pain which gets really bad at night? Related to hypothyroidism?

[jjyankee]

I don't have my recent test results handy but I do know my TSH is currently 11, free T3 is bottom of range, free t4 also bottom of range. I have been diagnosed with Hashi's. I am gradually increasing levo and also take a small dose of NDT for the t3 in it (I can't take Cytomel because of terrible side effects).

Being achy is nothing new but it is definitely getting worse and is now keeping me awake at night. I have joint pain, muscular pain, as well as pain from some peripheral neuropathy- I just feel like my whole body hurts. The only thing that really helps is Tramadol which I don't want to get in the habit of taking as it's an opiate.

My sister seems to think I may have also have fibromyalgia but there seems to be so many symptoms that are similar between fibro and Hashi's that it's just hard to know. Do any of you suffer from lots of pain when your in a hypothyroid state? Also, could levo be exacerbating these problems-is increased pain a side effect? For those who have Hashi's and fibro, how do you know what is causing which symptoms?

P.S- I have had tests done for: full Iron panel, Vit D, glucose, B 12, iodine, electrolytes and all the results looked good. My C -reactive protein level is high which would indicate systemic inflammation.

I really appreciate your thoughts/responses.

[SeasideSusie Remembering]

Your results may look good, but are they at optimal levels? If you post the results, with reference ranges and units of measurement, for your vitamins/minerals then members can comment.

As for your thyroid tests, you know you're undermedicated and this may be the cause of your symptoms. You need to get TSH down to around 1 or below and FT4/FT3 nearer the upper end of their ranges. The fact that you're taking some NDT may mean that FT4 will be lower than when on Levo only.

[jjyankee in reply to SeasideSusie]

The ranges are all fine- I am aware of optimal ranges for testing I have done and have a wonderful intergrative doctor who is really on top of these things. I also take supplements he's recommended (B complex, Vit D, zinc, selenium, magnesium, digestive enzymes). I do know I am still under-medicated; I am very sensitive to these meds and have to increase very slowly but I am increasing every 4-6 weeks. I guess I just wanted to know if these kinds of pain were common if one was in a hypothyroid state- Thanks so much for responding SeasideSusie

[greygoose]

Joint pain could be due to low vit D - and it could still be low, even if it's in-range. Muscle pain could be due to low zinc. Most hypos have low zinc and high copper. So, you could try taking a little zinc, and see if it helps.

[jjyankee in reply to greygoose]

Thanks @greygoose; actually I do take zinc.

[greygoose in reply to jjyankee]

Ah, ok.

[Melodica8]

Well not massively helpful but my husband has similar symptoms- he doesn’t have thyroid issues but he has had low vit d for over a year despite taking good quality supplements. He gets extremely bad pain in his legs when he’s tired, particularly at night. We have the strongest co-codomol that can be prescribed which helps. Our GP is investigating- he currently has to write a diary of when the pain occurs.

[jjyankee]

thanks Melodica8 - my D was too low a year ago but I finally got it up to the sufficient range; however, when it was in the deficient range I still didn't feel like this, but my thyroid was in better shape then too.

As I posted earlier, tramadol helps a lot but I don't want to get into the habit of taking an opiate every night. My worst pain is in my legs too- I've had RLS since I was a kid, but the pain I have now has added another level to the discomfort. I'm hoping that getting my thyroid in better shape will help some but I don't think it will ever go away completely.

I sincerely wish your husband the best- I understand how frustrated he must feel; Not being able to sleep because of pain is terrible.

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to jjyankee]

Restless legs often low magnesium

Supplementing vitamin D increases need for more magnesium

[jjyankee in reply to SlowDragon]

Yep- I take magnesium too- I’ve done my research 🙃 bern trying to sort out the restless legs for decades -

[SilverAvocado]

You are really really seriously undermedicated, so this can cause all kinds of different symptoms, particularly those that appear on all the common lists for htypothyroid. Joint pain and symptoms that are worse at night are definitely on the hypothyroid list.

As others have mentioned, its possible they're caused by other things, too. If you're having trouble raising your dose and particularly with adding T3, you probably have adrenal problems, too, so that's just one more thing to throw into the mix. This will hopefully resolve itself as your overall health improves.

With raising your thyroid hormone, all you can really do is hang in there and wait. This is always a slow process, and means you may have 6 months to a year of just waiting to see how you feel once those blood numbers are high enough. Unfortunately that means symptoms like these.

I don't know if this will affect you, but I found that when I was extremely extremely hypothyroid I didn't really have any of these more specific symptoms, it was just extreme fatigue and in bed all the time. As I started getting up and about I was aware of more specific things like joint pain, and its stopped me from doing a few things I was able to do when more sick. It can get harder in some ways before it gets better.

[SilverAvocado in reply to SilverAvocado]

The only other tip I have is that rest makes a huge difference. Make sure you're resting as much as you can, not overdoing it, and being aware that we can get pain and fatigue as 'pay back', which means it may be later in the day or even later in the week or month that the consequences happen.

This can be very different to get your head round. In our society there is a huge pressure to move and to work, and this is flipping that completely around and saying the goal is to rest. It also can be hard to get into the head space of rationing out more demanding tasks and preparing for them by resting.

[jjyankee]

Thank you so much for your thoughtful response SilverAvocado . Yes I know I'm totally undermedicated- it's a long story but I essentially had to take a short break from all medications and start again with tiny doses so I have been raising very slowly- I have also been through several med changes/combinations. I have a stack of books I've read on thyroid and adrenal treatment- at this point I may be more informed than many doctors treating thyroid- hahahaha (seriously!)

I guess the pain stuff just threw me; I've seen it mentioned in my readings, but it really hasn't been given all that much attention compared to other symptoms. I do have the severe fatigue as well.

As for adrenals- yes I did know this and my doc tested both urine and saliva for adrenals. My cortisone is in the low normal range for morning but rest of day looked okay- the supplements I take are all good for adrenal support as well as thyroid.

As for getting rest, I took an early retirement last year (I'm 61) so getting rest is definitely not an issue- I take lots of naps and basically do what I have the energy for- some days are productive, some days not so much.

At this point I feel very fortunate because I am no longer working 50-60 hours a week at a very stressful job-

Thanks again for taking the time to respond to my query.

[SilverAvocado in reply to jjyankee]

Thanks you for your kind response I'm sure you are more knowledgeable than most doctors! Good luck with finding ways to manage the pain, and I hope it clears up as you get your dose raised.

You seem very knowledgeable about treating the pain, the two things I find useful:

Epsom salt baths are great for the pain. You can buy big buckets on the Internet and take several 500g or more per bath. In shops it's priced like gold dust!

Electric heat mats you can lie on are fabulous, like a hot water bottle that never goes cold or needs refilling!

I've got restless legs, too, and use the magnesium spray on the back of my calves before bed.

I also picked up on the forum an old wive's tale that having a bar of soap in bed helps. I tried it anyway, just in case, and do think it may have helped!

I also do mindfulness, which isn't specifically for pain, but it helps with a lot of symptoms, and there's a great book, 'Mindfulness: a practical guide to relieving pain, reducing stress and restoring well-being', by Vidyamala Birch & Danny Penman. It's an introduction to mindfulness with particular emphasis on dealing with pain and illness.

[beandrummo in reply to SilverAvocado]

I will most definitely try the book, also the magnesium spray. I’m really suffering at the moment.