Results on NDT

[Shonnyuk]

Hi everyone.

I have been on NDT now for a littleover a year. I have been OK at 2.5 grains, but recently started feeling very tired. It could be stress (a lot on my shoulders) but I thought I'd better rule out undermedication.

I have no hyper symptoms at all.

I also supplement vit d, omega 3, b12, iron, selenium, zinc, biotin, evening primrose oil.

Here are my results.

Do you think I should reduce? I know TSH will be suppressed and t4 lower on ndt... but am concerned my t3 maybe too high?

Also test was 8am fasting, 24 hours after last dose.

Many thanks

[Anthea55]

Just a quick reply because you mention biotin. Biotin is fine, but recent posts on here have shown that it can upset the thyroid blood tests, so I suggest that you stop taking it for 2 or 3 days before your blood tests, then start again after the tests.

Can't find the posts about it at present, maybe someone else can.

[Rapunzel in reply to Anthea55]

Here it is Shonnyuk

articles.mercola.com/sites/...

Top spot Anthea55 two heads + the original article's poster are better than one

[Shonnyuk]

Thank you both! I'll have a look.

Just wondering can anyone advise on dose? Should I stay as I am?

[waltermelondria]

check that microcrystalline cellulose is not your filler. Cellulose may bind to thyroid hormone and can render it unuseable. we had to remove it from my sons NDT and have replaced it with organic white rice flour which seems to be fine.

[Anthea55 in reply to waltermelondria]

That's really interesting, watermelondria.

I'd never heard of microcrystalline cellulose, so googled for it. This link says more.

integrativeholistichealth.o...

It's in both Armour and Nature-throid, but doesn't seem to be in WP Thyroid.

Do you think we are all sensitive to it, or just some of us?

[waltermelondria in reply to Anthea55]

there's always a canary in the coal mine and my son is probably it. Microcrystalline cellulose has been found, in autopsies of" over the counter" drug addicts, to create systemic granulations - a condition called agiocentric systemic granulomatosis. Of course these addicts don't know they have it, and like sarcoidosis, systemic granulations make you very unwell, and sarcoid is very hard to diagnose. Did the drug addiction kill them or the granulations? I'd prefer not to risk it....

[helvella Administrator in reply to waltermelondria]

What I found was this:

Our investigation disclosed that in all 3 cases patients surreptitiously injected crushed oral prescription medication.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/201...

That is, abusers who were injecting oral medicines.

Have you got anything that says the same about microcrystalline cellulose taken as intended - orally?

[waltermelondria in reply to helvella]

anything that is ingested can persorb through the gut lining (Ray Peat) leaky gut which is common amongst the hypothyroid population may make this worse. In my sons case granulations could be seen on his abdomen. When the cellulose was removed not only did the granulations disappear, over time, but we were also able to reduce his thyroid medication by a whole grain - from 3.5 grains to 2.5 grains, with exactly the same blood test results afterwards. But as I say, canary in the coal mine he is, having been born with completely no thyroid gland.

[hels333 in reply to waltermelondria]

I had been on Westthroid, then Naturethroid for some 8 years, when I realised I still wasn't optimally treated, despite taking 3 to 3.5 grains daily, and I still had a lot of symptoms.

I researched microcrystalline cellulose and found WP Thyoid doesn't contain this filler.

When I switched to WP Thyroid, I found my symptoms much improved, and it feels like the meds are working much better for me.

It may be that some are more sensitive than others to M. cellulose. I for one do much better on meds that don't contain that filler.

It might be worth Shonnyuk trying WP Thyroid. Good luck.

[Hiddledumpling]

Hi,have you tried taking your temprature ,first thing in the morning ,just as you wake ,before you get out of bed .If your temprature is lower than normal ,then you may need to up your dose .Try taking your temp every morning for a week .The Stop the Thyroid Madness book has very good advice ,regarding body temprature and how to regulate your dose .Hope this helps

[Shonnyuk]

Hi... thanks for replies. I will look into what fillers they contain.

I do my rising temperature and pulse regularly. They stay stable at 36.6, and around 70 pulse.

[fibrolinda]

Have you checked your adrenals? I would start high dose vitamin c with the iron anyway which will help adrenal and add a good multi b to 'even out' the b vitamins. T3 is high but in range and as you dont feel over medicated I wouldn't reduce. My absolutely amateur opinion only 🙂

T4 is low though, kind of surprised its so low on NDT? Hopefully a wise one will advise on that soon.

[Shonnyuk]

Thanks for all your comments.

I think I'm going to remain on 2.5 as I don't feel hyper and I know on 2grains I felt symptoms return very quickly.

I might look into WP once these run out.

I'd expect the t4 to be low on ndt.. I just concentrate on t3 levels.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I wrong here ! :).

[Eddie83]

NDT contains T3:T4 at a 1:4 ratio. That sometimes results in this situation, where FT3 is high and FT4 is low. Were I in your position, I would lower NDT a little (say, to 2 grains) and add in a good (GF) brand of T4. This is assuming, of course, that you are on a good supplement program in which you are getting the minerals (especially) that contribute to good T4->T3 conversion. If your conversion is poor, then adding in T4 could cause unwelcome symptoms.

As I learned from personal experience, there is a downside to driving FT3 close to, or slightly over, top of range. You might not feel hyper in the classical sense, but on the other hand, you might feel improvement if you bring your T3 dosage down enough to eliminate near-range-top symptoms like excessive bowel motility.

[Shonnyuk]

Hi

Many thanks for your reply.

I actually decided to reduce dose to 2.25 grains. At 2 grains my ft3 was 4.3, so a little low.

I supplement selenium200mg to help conversion.

Does this seem reasonable ?

[Carew in reply to Shonnyuk]

I hope that is 200 micrograms of Selenium!