Is This HOCD Anymore?

[UnhappyChap]

Ok first off, I realise that this is probably reassurance seeking. Equally I realise that this is probably futile and isn't going to achieve anything, but hey, maybe this time will be different.

So story time. Apologies for the epic length, but this is something that ive not ever fully written or told anymore.

So, growing up I always liked girls, right from an early age. I even fancied one of my teachers at age seven and would kiss a photo of a girl I had home that I had a crush on.

I believe my issues with what I hope is HOCD may have started when I was about thirteen when my lesbian aunt commented saying I reminded her of her gay son. I remember that freaking me out. Also, throughout secondary school I was relentlessly bullied and called gay on a daily basis which probably didn't help.

Additionally I think more problems may have been caused for me when my first girlfriend at fourteen ghosted me after she cheated on me with another girl and realised she was a lesbian. I blamed myself for years thinking I had 'turned her'. My second girlfriend who I was with for two years and absolutely besotted with, also cheated on me - and as it later turned out, with half the gym that she worked at.

This gave me a dislike of attractive guys and 'gymbros', which was just a reflection of my shattered self-confidence. I appreciate these events aren't anything abnormal, but I never spoke with anyone about things and was really sensitive, blaming myself for everything that went wrong.

I joined the military at 17 and basically got bullied out of it. I then got severe acne that destroyed any last bit of self-confidence that I had. I would spend about half an hour a day just picking at my face which has left some scarring. Thing is, logically I know the scarring isn't that bad, but to me looking in the mirror I feel like the elephant man. Again, all this has just shattered my confidence.

I tried to initiate relationships a few times and got burned, so after a certain point, whenever I met girls who, looking back, were showing an interest, I felt like I wasn't good enough or that they were just humouring me or taking the piss.

Eventually in 2007, I met my wife after she chased after me for months and spent about eight months in a great relationship, although I still was a little concerned about getting hurt again. I worried about whether she would cheat. Whether I would get hurt again. Whether I liked her. Whether she liked me. At the same point I was in and out of a series of jobs and depressed, and also suffering from bad self-image problems. (I remember looking at my body in the bath and thinking my body was too feminine looking for instance.)

Then one day, I went to the toilet which had left blood in the pan and I began to panic, so I went into the shower to wash and 'check myself'. After touching around my bottom to check I was OK, I then has a wank which as a young guy was fairly normal.

As soon as I got out the shower though a thought popped into my head. Did touching my arse and then jerking off make me gay? I couldn't shake the thoughts and questions. I woke up the next day and went out to work and the thoughts were constantly whizzing around my head.

The first thing I did at lunch was go to a supermarket to look at the lads mags which they still used to sell back then. The week before I had brought an FHM magazine on the way to see my girlfriend on the train, so I went and brought the same magazine again and looked through it - it felt like I didn't find the women in the magazine attractive anymore and I was put into panic mode. I began checking constantly. Every woman. Every man. It felt like I found every guy attractive and that my attraction for women was waining.

That next weekend I told my girlfriend what was happening. I couldn't even look in the mirror because I thought (ironically given my self esteem) that I would find myself attractive. Every morning the thoughts and questions would start, it consumed every waking minute of every day.

Eventually after becoming a hermit for months I was going to commit suicide but as a last ditch attempt as i sat in a tree with a rope around my neck, I phoned an ambulance to take me to hospital. Long-story short the psychiatrist diagnosed with OCD. However, the SSRI medication messed my body up and I never received anything approaching CBT.

After about four or five years I eventually got to a point where I was OK to resume a normal(ish) life and until recently I was doing OK.

Here's the thing. It feels very much like I was in denial but if was in denial, why would I have told my girlfriend (who I'm still with) or my parents? My parents said they'd love and support me either way, too, so there's no family thing stopping me from being gay. I just don't want to do anything with a guy!

At one point my wife (then my girlfriend) and I broke up for a month and within a week I was already going out on dates with another girl (never did anything with her) and likewise, in the seventeen years I've been with my wife, there's been times where other women have made it known that they like me, and I them, and it was always a positive feeling even if I knew I wouldn't act on it. Come to think of it, when these other girls got boyfriends or married now even, I secretly felt a bit disappointed or jealous.

For ten years basically, until June of this year, I'd been ok. I would eye up women non-stop. I have four kids, wouldn't leave my wife alone. At times I would look back on the whole OCD episode as a being a bit surreal even and kind of laugh at myself over it. Like what the fuck was that about? But the thoughts weren't completely gone, I could just ignore them and not pay them much mind.

As a for instance, in May or early June of this year, I was messing about making an AI scifi art project for Twitter and most of the time to be fair, I would just sit there making hundreds of images of good looking women with large breasts. I even made a point of deliberately making some images of handsome men to balance it out a bit because 80% of the images I had made just had women with big butts and boobs.

That said, in those years I have suffered with what I presume is a mixture of GAD and health anxieties. I would constantly be worrying about whether I had a brain tumour or that I was going blind. I had a colonoscopy because I was so worried about my guts (turns out its stress induced IBS) and I used to feel so tight chested and out of breath from anxiety that I would then become convinced that I had heart disease or something. The last worry like this that I had was insomnia which I had suffered with from August 2022 until May of 2023 - I would start worrying about not being able to sleep from midday onwards. I got so sick of it that I went for medical cannabis and starting vaping in an evening to get some sleep.

This is where the recent problems started. The cannabis helped me relax really well and helped with sleep. However, I didn't really notice at the time but the old HOCD checking had started to come back into play about a week before I had a huge relapse. I started worrying that some of the women I was looking at were too young for me, and that I was a pervert (legal age, I'm talking early 20s.) One day I started checking to see if I could find older women attractive but this just set off the HOCD checking and I started worrying that I found men attractive again. I was kind of OK with it, realising that I'd been through it all before until that evening when I vaped some cannabis.

The thought entered my head "what if OCD came back" and that was it. It was like the switch in my head had been flicked again and I was thrown back into the pit of despair. I had forgotten just how bad it could be to be honest and its really destroying me.

So here I am. In my mid thirties worrying about my sexuality. Again. I feel pathetic. And I don't really know if it is OCD this time. I've spoken with an NHS OCD specialist on the phone and she says it sounds like OCD. I'm seeing a therapist and she says it sounds like OCD. I've read and watched every bit of material about HOCD/SOOCD out there and agree that it's all very much in line with what I'm going through, but I'm still doubting what I'm going through.

Here's what my average day is like;

Wake up. Thoughts start immediately - often I'm woken from a dream where I'm ruminating or checking within the dream. I look at my wife and I worry that I don't find her attractive. I feel guilty, like I've wasted all these years of her life and I'm responsible for ruining her life.

I go out. Every single person I see I automatically check for signs of attraction. I'll see a nice looking woman and sometimes my eyes will pop out of my head like a Looney Tunes wolf, but I'll still doubt that I actually found her attractive. Likewise, I'll see an attractive guy and I feel like I find them attractive and feel pretty awful and anxious about it. But sometimes depending on how bad I'm feeling that day it will feel like every single guy is attractive. Doesn't matter if they're 18 or 98.

Initially I would imagine sexual encounters with guys to check I didn't find them appealing but now the thoughts just come on autopilot, and I'm always grossed out by it. Sometimes I'll consciously do it still though - and I've never become aroused or enjoyed the thoughts. When with my wife, I've only got to kiss her usually to become aroused, but I'm still petrified I don't find her attractive enough.

Ill spend all day if I can avoiding all contact with other humans. I've sat in the middle of nowhere for hours just trying to get a reprieve from the thoughts and feelings - not that it works as the thoughts just roll over in my mind like they're on autorepeat.

In an evening I might sit and watch porn to see if I become aroused, but no matter how much I want to look at the woman I'm constantly aware of the man in the scene out the corner of my eye and it makes me feel super uncomfortable. Then again sometimes ill force myself to look at only the guy to see if I get aroused. Never have. However, if I watch some porn with just a woman in, I'll usually become aroused. I've not watched gay porn because I'm worried ill desensitise myself to it regardless of whether I'm gay or not, the closest I got was watching an animated thumbnail and it honestly made me cringe.

If I sit and imagine sexual scenes, presuming I'm not too anxious or stressed, I can become aroused fairly easily to memories of encounters with women or imaginary scenarios with women. I've tried numerous times to check if I become aroused with thoughts of guys and never have. I usually think of women, get aroused and then think of men, which is kind of torturous really but the thoughts of guys turn me off pretty quick.

The thing is, I get that everything I've written so far is like yeah this is OCD, whatever, but I just can't get over how real it feels when you worry about being attracted to guys. It feels real. Like completely. But my body doesn't react to it other than pangs of extreme anxiety. I know OCD is all about the 'what ifs' but I honestly worry that a lifetime of being with women has 'conditioned me' to react to women despite maybe not being straight. I know that sounds ridiculous maybe, but there it is.

Honestly I've been so depressed these last few months. I have a young family that I love so much. I have a wife that I would do anything to stay with, I love her so much honestly, she's amazing. I told her about whatever this is I'm going through the other month and she's pretty supportive. I can't stop crying when I think of losing her and my attraction to women in general. It feels like I'm losing who I am and that I haven't known who I was all this time. I feel like a horrible fraud.

Genuinely been considering packing survival gear and living a life as a hermit in a forest somewhere, knowing full well it will probably mean death. I'm prepared for that eventuality to be honest. But I can't deal with the pain of having to tell everyone that i love that I'm just this fraud who's been lying to everyone all this time.

My therapist isn't much use tbh, just keeps giving me books to read. What do I do? I'd appreciate any advice.

[TrueBlue23]

I can't give you any advice but I do sympathise with how you're feeling. I hope someone on here can give you the help or reassurance that you need. The human mind is very complex, and it sounds to me like you are an over thinker, which I understand is a common trait in people with OCD .

I am struggling with ROCD at the moment and feel the need to confess past Indiscretions to my partner who I'm marrying very soon, so I relate to the pangs of anxiety that wash over you from time to time.

It sounds like you've been through a lot in your life and your wife has supported you every step of the way, so take heart in that and know that you have the support to get through this stage in your life. I wish you the best.

[SCC1]

I agree with you that you are looking at guys to see if you have a feeling about them, and I think you are right about it being OCD because you are not aroused by other guys. I think if you were gay, there would be some "proof", such as arousal taking place.

It's possible the OCD could be making you think you need to see if you are attracted to guys by "giving" you intrusive thoughts that really are questionable to you, so you feel the need to check this out-and repeatedly; it has become an everyday "habit" and happens much of the day, so IMO, I would think it is OCD. The thoughts never stop and are happening sometimes with every person you see. If it weren't OCD, I don't think you would question so many people. You might be fine with only questioning a small amount of people, those who you may really find attractive. Then your natural instinct would take over. If you genuinely liked guys, you might feel more aroused and then it would be highly possible that you are gay. But, also, you would have probably known your true feelings sometime ago, therefore you would not be questioning as much as you have been.

Sometimes we can be exposed to things in our lives that bring on thoughts (your aunt making the comment; your experiences with girls hurting you) that normally we would not think. If those things keep repeating themselves or are really impactful at the time, they can become part of who we are without our consent.

I really believe though, that your thoughts are intrusive and only caused by OCD. Just my opinion though.

[avoidingthebadthings]

Wow, that's a really painful OCD cycle that you are in the midst of. The anxiety is running out of hand. I would think the best bet would be to try a different med from the SSRI that didn't work.

Everyone reacts differently to the SSRIs and SNRIs, so it's worth seeing how your body does on a different one. When I've been spiraling like you are now, the most helpful thing is to find a medication that makes the wheels in your brain much quieter and slower.

I really hope the mental health people will be able to provide medication. Your brain doesn't have the patience for books right now. Hang in there!

[UnhappyChap in reply to avoidingthebadthings]

I'm trying to hang in there, but I'm feel absolutely shattered if I'm honest. The only thing that distracts me from it is the thought of just being alone somewhere on a mountain or something. I can't go on like this.

[Natureloverpeace]

Reassurance seeking in OCD can be a vicious trap. The more reassurance we seek, the less assured we feel. We can get to the point where we rely on others to ease our doubts instead of trusting ourselves. We can get then start to believe that our obsessional fears are grounded in reality. Excessive reassurance seeking is a mental compulsion that feeds the OCD cycle.

[UnhappyChap in reply to Natureloverpeace]

What do I do though when I'm already convinced these fears are true? I get that reassurance is a trap, every article and study on OCD says this, but i don't know if I can get through the day without relying on compulsions. It's the only thing that gives me even a shread of hope that this isn't real.

[IStillHaveHope in reply to UnhappyChap]

Hello. I replied to your original post but thought I might add something here as well. It's important to find a therapist who specializes in OCD since they can help you with your compulsion. Usually, at first, you won't stop the compulsion but delay it. I have a problem with checking things too. The first thing I was taught was to delay it, even for like 10 seconds, and then gradually stretch that out. 10 seconds became 30, then a minute, then 10, 20, an hour, etc. Eventually I would go days without checking and then often forget about it.

The mental rumination is a bit trickier for me. What I've been trying to do when the OCD thoughts come up is agree with them. I'll have a thought like, "If you don't check this then it could start a fire and people would die!" I'll respond with (a bit sarcastically), "Yeah you're probably right. Maybe I'll kill thousands.". What it is supposed to do is train your brain that this isn't a serious thought. Other people respond with, "Thanks for your input OCD." or "Maybe. Maybe not." or something along those lines. From what I've learned you can train yourself to relax when these thoughts come. After a while your brain learns that these are not a big deal and they'll show up less and less.

Like I said though, an OCD therapist can help you learn these skills.

I really hope you find some relief from this, I truly do. God bless you my friend.

[Natureloverpeace]

I’m sorry you’re struggling, OCD can be tormenting. I understand feeling like you have to do the compulsions since they provide temporary relief even though you know in the long run that they make the OCD stronger. Feelings can be very powerful but they aren’t facts. Making decisions based on feelings alone can get us into trouble. You mentioned the NHS. I know a couple of people who couldn’t get effective OCD treatment through them. One of them ended up getting treatment through NOCD and is doing really well. It’s all done through a virtual platform. You can check them out at treatmyocd.com. to see if that would be of interest to you. They provide a free 15 minute phone consultation to see if they can meet your needs. The IOCDF has livestreams every Tuesday and Wednesday that are helpful although they don’t replace therapy. They are recorded if you can’t catch them live. You can learn about those at iocdf.org. Click on Recovery and Support, then click on Peace of Mind Virtual Community. It’s scary to let go of compulsions at first but the freedom from OCD makes it worth it.

[Eli_E]

I'm so sorry you are going through this. I have HOCD and it sucks because like you said- it feels so real and it can just feel like its ripping everything that you are away from you. I am on a low dose of an SSRI and while that helped me get my body out of constant fight or flight mode, it was finding a therapist that fit me that has made all the difference. It sounds like yours doesn't feel like a good fit so if you are able to try out someone else, I definitely would. I had to try a few out too to find one who specialized in ocd and who I just felt comfotable with. Its been a long road, and I'm still figuring out how to manage everything, but I'm slowly realizing I can handle whatever my ocd-filled brain throws at me. Wishing you the best.

[IStillHaveHope]

Hello. First off I'm really sorry you're having a difficult time right now. I really am. I know how hard OCD can be and understand every feeling and thought you've said.

Secondly I'm not doctor, but that definitely sounds like OCD. The constant thoughts, rumination, checking. All hallmarks of classic OCD. OCD tends to latch onto what we value, so from that I can deduce that you're probably a very loving and dutiful husband and father. From your post, you sound like someone who values their wife and children greatly. I read a long time ago that OCD isn't a "thinking" problem, but a "feeling" problem. The context of the thoughts doesn't really matter. It's the associated feeling that causes distress. If we didn't care about the thoughts it wouldn't bother us to have them all the time.

A couple of questions. Does your therapist specialize in OCD? I'm not from the UK (which I'm assuming that's where you are) so I don't know how hard it is to find an OCD therapist but it's important to find someone who knows how to treat OCD. They can help you develop skills to deal with the intrusive thoughts. Exposure and Response Prevention (ERP) therapy is the standard for treating OCD, but there is also Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) and Acceptance Commitment Therapy (ACT). I have taken both CBT and ACT and they have been helpful. Unfortunately I have not been able to find an ERP therapist who will accept new patients or insurance so I haven't tried that yet.

Also, medicine is useful for a lot of people. It isn't a "happy" pill or anything. It just makes the OCD thoughts more "quiet" so you can approach them with a therapy technique. It can take some time to find one that works for you though and there is an adjustment time that can be difficult.

Also, I don't know if you'll find this useful, but I put together a post a while back for those who are starting out. I tried to put together what I learned on my OCD journey to help others. Maybe you might find something in there useful?

healthunlocked.com/my-ocd/p...

Lastly, know that you are not alone, weird, or broken. I know it can feel that way sometimes but there are literally millions of people who have the same issue. We know what you are going through and have extreme empathy for you. The good news is that there are thousands of people who want to (and can) help. You just need to ask.

I truly hope you find the peace you deserve my friend. God bless you.