Back again for help with recent blood results. Am i still a poor converter?

[Golli]

I am still a little confused with my most recent results ,

a recap:

My GP instructed me to reduce my Levo from 100mcg to 75mcg, back in March when he saw that my TSH was 0.13 (0.27-4.2)

I didn't want to , but was too lethargic to disagree with him. And he is only concerned about TSH, not how I'm feeling , Also T3 was only done because new member of staff took my bloods and I asked for it , they never usually do it.

With good information on this site re optimising vitamins and am now supplementing with Igennus Super B-comples. Vit D+K2 spray and Magnesium75mg spray and am noticing a general improvement. Im also on a trial Gluten free diet.

I convinced my Gp to put me back on 100mcg levo in August as I was feeling no better on 75mcg .

My most recent private bloods on 1/10/20 , show a high T4 (142% range) and very low TSH.

Do they show I'm still a poor converter to T3? (48.38 through range)

Have I got those percentages right?

I am feeling better since increase back to 100mcg , feeling a little edgy, but a little scared last week as I had some heart palpitations/ irregular heart beats, but this has subsided although I am aware of it at times.

I really want to know how I stand with conversion issues as I also got my GP to agree to give me a endo referral as I said I feel my thyroid hasn't been managed properly over the years and I feel its never balanced and I end up feeling unwell most of the time. I would hope to see a private Endo who's name was recommended from Dionne Thyroid uk list and also recommended by a member on this site. If I am definitely a low converter I would hope for a T3 trial.

My Gp would be really concerned if he saw those most recent results , with such a high T4 and low TSH,

I've listed my three previous blood results, for March June and October.

All blood tests done as advised on here .

Thank you for reading through these ramblings.

I'll be so grateful for any advice /interpretations.

1st Oct '20.(medichecks)

T4 26.2 (12-22)

T3 4.89 (3.1-6.8)

TSH 0.01 (0.27-4.2)

TGA <10 (<115)

TPO <9 (<34)

June '20 (Medichecks)

T4 18.4 (12-22)

T3 4.11 (3.1-6.8)

TSH 0.047 (0.27-4.2)

TGA >10 (<115)

TPO <9 (<34)

CRP 1.56 (<5)

Ferritin 70.4 (13-150)

Folate Serum 4.4 (3.89-19.45)

Vit B12 -actuve 52.1 (37.5-187.5)

Vit D 86.5 (509-175)

March '20 (Gp bloods)

T4 21.1 (12-22)

T3 4.9 (3.1-6.8)

TSH 0.13 (0.27-4.2)

[SeasideSusie Remembering]

Golli

1st Oct '20.(medichecks)

T4 26.2 (12-22)

T3 4.89 (3.1-6.8)

My most recent private bloods on 1/10/20 , show a high T4 (142% range) and very low TSH.

Do they show I'm still a poor converter to T3? (48.38 through range)

Have I got those percentages right?

Yes, you have those percentages right.

Am i still a poor converter?

Yes.

I would retest your nutrient levels to see how much they have improved.

If all optimal, i.e.

Vit D - 100-150nmol/L

B12 - Active B12 at least over 70, preferably 100+

Folate - Double figures if range is >3.89, if a proper range with lower and upper limits then at least half way through range

Ferritin - Half way through range

If you've reached these figures then I'd say you're looking at reducing Levo and adding some T3.

You could try supplementing with selenium as that is supposed to help T4 to T3 conversion. Look for selenium l-selenomethionine or yeast bound selenium, avoid selenite or selenate versions.

[Golli in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thank you SeasideSusie for your quick response, much appreciated.

Do you think I should stay on the 100 of levo until I see Endo , which probably won’t be for another few weeks, (yet to make appointment ) and see if he will agree to prescribe T3. ? Will my T4 keep rising without the introduction of T3?

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Golli]

Golli

Your FT4 shouldn't rise if you stay on the same dose, it would only increase if you increased your dose of Levo.

If you reduce your dose of Levo you will reduce both FT4 and FT3 levels (there wont be so much T4 to convert to T3) so you'd probably feel worse.

I'd check your nutrients now, as suggeted.

[Golli in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thank you , I’ll check nutrients first and try selenium as you suggest.

All the best to you.

[mikey_is_alive]

T3 is within range so it is converting. although a bit sluggish(a bit)

id be concerned if t4 was ok but t3 was well under range(under 3). but thats not the case

as you can see

in march your T4 was in 20's and T3 was above 4.6

in june your T4 was below 20 and so yea your T3 went below 4.5

in october your T4 was in 20's and so yea your T3 went above 4.5 again

id say conversion is not much of an issue.

your T3 is within the 20%-30% of T4 ratio. id only be concerned if your T3 was below 3 in all three test results

doing math the T4:T3 for you is M23.2% J22.3 O18.8%

however. you only jumped up to 100mcg in august and so its maybe not been 8 weeks since having the increase in T4 for your body to then react and convert it all into T3 which is why it might be too early to say this 18% latest conversion rate is of anything notable.

..

many people have found that food and drink actually cause issues that counter-act the absorbtion into cells.

things like chlorine and flouride are direct competitor to the iodine reactivity. thus having chlorinated chicken, or swallowing mouth wash can then cause your t3 to bind to other chemicals and not be useful. thus not absorb into organs. many other food items can mess with it too.

maybe absorbtion/utilisation is the problem

as it seems your blood has the hormones. but obviously your organs are not using it. if still lathargic, which means it doesnt mater how much you push into your system if your organs are not taking it.

what you will find is that an overdose of T4 can actually give you symptoms of hyperthyroidism. which is the palpitations and feeling edgy.

..

the lathery is a sign your body is not getting hormones. but this can be not due to not having hormones in blood. but in not absorbing them

EG like diabetes. body doesnt absorb sugars. so no matter how much sugar you put in your not going to fix it. which is why insulin is used as the catalyst to get your body to absorb sugar.

if only they done research on any mechanism that can aid absorbing t3 like insulin aids absorbing sugar. then things will be better for everyone

[Golli in reply to mikey_is_alive]

Thank you Mikey for all the information which I’m going to digest. I’m going to get my vitamin levels checked again to see if things have improved and it was 6 weeks since I had my thyroid bloods last checked so maybe I’ll leave 8 weeks before getting checked again to see how T3 is doing. I’ll start selenium supplement to see if it improves things as recommended by Seaside Susie.

By the way , I’ve had Radioactive Iodine treatment in 2008 and a lot of sufferers eventually become poor converters after RAI.

[tattybogle in reply to Golli]

You might find this interesting on the subject of T4/T3 ratios in healthy people.... it's from thyroidpatients .ca (Canada) and there are several more related articles on there. I found it very enlightening, and now understand that it's perfectly possible that T4/T3 ratios that are often said to be normal may not have been normal for some of us.. it seems plenty of healthy people have equal or even greater amounts of T3 to T4. The idea of a 'normal' ratio for T4/T3 is as incorrect as most of the other 'normal' ranges thyroid patients must learn to beware of .

Look at the graph for '% T3 secretion from thyroid gland from Pilo's 1990 study' towards the end of the article .....

thyroidpatients.ca/2020/05/...

[Golli in reply to tattybogle]

Thank you tattybogle for that very interesting article on the very complex issue of Ft4-F t3 conversion.

What’ is evident, is how the ratios are highly individualistic and depend on a huge set/range of circumstances , of that individual .

As I’ve had RAI in 2008 , I’m hoping , when I make appointment with Endo, that he is well informed on the subject and , can make an improvement to my health by his decisions on how to manage treatment . As for GP having any knowledge of this subject.....well.....I despair!

[tattybogle in reply to Golli]

It's a shame none of us had the foresight to find out what our own ratio's were when we were well......... but i don't think i knew what a thyroid did when mine was working. If i was in charge we'd all get a full TSH/FT4/FT3 done every 10 yrs or so as part of normal health checks, I'm sure it would save the NHS money in the long run, and we'd learn lots about 'normal'

[Golli in reply to tattybogle]

I think you should be in charge! Go for it! 😉😀

[tattybogle in reply to Golli]

Be careful what you wish for i also think electricity should be rationed unless it comes from a wind mill or a solar panel, nobody should be allowed to fly anywhere unless it's to hospital in a helicopter, and everyone must spend a year on the road as a motorcyclist before they are allowed to drive a car !! Oh yes , i nearly forgot ..... everyone on the planet who has a tap supplying clean water in their house will have it removed, and is now to start carrying water in from a stand pipe in the street, and everyone who does not have a tap supplying clean water can now have one.

And no one is allowed to leave any more junk in space.

I think that's all ..... for now

[Golli in reply to tattybogle]

🤣🤣🤣

Actually I tend to agree with all those wishes - Mankind needs a wake up call. Our planet is being destroyed......... second thoughts, I’d keep the tap supplying water..,...only if it’s clean. 😉

[tattybogle in reply to Golli]

Oh alright then , i'll let all the thyroid patient's keep their taps then.. bout time we got some perks .

[mikey_is_alive in reply to tattybogle]

yep i think people should get a full MOT on their blood work every 10 years even when well.

these days 'free at the point of need' means you really gotta push and pressure doctors to convince them of the need, before they will admit there is a need to then help.

im pretty sure if they made testing for everything happen 5x more often then the cost of sch will be 5x less

its like the first ever covid test equipment was expensive but now they expand testing each test is coming down in price.

same will be for all tests.

healthcare should be the new economic boost government should support

[Golli]

Well, we don’t know anything until we are forced to find out why we are feeling so bad and don’t seem to be getting anywhere by Gp treatment, it’s only then , when the penny drops and we realise they don’t have a clue ( apologies to the very few who do) , then we seek answers. It feels quite a burden now that I have to plod my way through trying to comprehend what’s going on with this complicated disease. , and so many people aren’t able to do so.

Anyway, we’ll keep striving.

All best to you.