All things vitamins etc!!

[Tabitha6]

Hello, I apologise for the long post and thank you if you take the time to read..

An update from my recent posts re high T4 and low T3. Low vitamin D, B12 and folate.

My oncologist has referred me back to the endocrinologist who apparently does recommend T3 if he thinks it’s appropriate - he didn’t think I needed it when I saw him previously but my T3 was higher then. Appointment hopefully soon.

In the meantime I have new supplies to hopefully improve my conversion to T3, based on recommendations from the helpful people on this forum as follows:

Super B complex 1 tablet twice a day

Doctors Best high absorption Magnesium 100%. chelated 2 tablets twice daily - too much?

Oxford Vitality Selenium 200mcg 1 tablet daily

I use Better You Vitamin D+K2 oral spray - at present 5 sprays daily while waiting for endo advice

I also have Better You Magnesium spray (which I have been using before I bought the drs best supplement to rub in aching muscles and joints). I assume I can’t use both?

Is there anything else that might help??

I am 71 years old and since retiring I have always enjoyed the hours I work in a role that had no set hours, was just as and when I was needed and if I was available.

Just recently the company is experiencing some permanent staff shortages due to shielding etc and the “as and when” has increased considerably. The work involves quite a lot of driving and also responsibility. I am finding it very tiring and also experiencing a lot of anxiety and returning home irritable and short-tempered. I suspect it is maybe time to give up work and retire completely or at least learn to say no more often, but before I do that I want to be sure I’m on track to be the best version of this ageing me that I can be! Hence the renewed effort with vitamins etc and another go at trying to get some T3..

Thanks in advance for any thoughts or advice.

[greygoose]

Did you get your vit D, B12 and folate tested before starting supplements? What about ferritin?

Doctors Best high absorption Magnesium 100%. chelated 2 tablets twice daily - too much?

How much magnesium is in the tablets?

I use Better You Vitamin D+K2 oral spray - at present 5 sprays daily while waiting for endo advice

I very much doubt your endo would be able to advise you on vit D. They don't know much about nutrients. Far better to get your advice on here.

[Tabitha6 in reply to greygoose]

MAgnesium 200mg 48%

[greygoose in reply to Tabitha6]

So, you take 800 mg magnesium a day? That is too much. Should be about 350 to 400 mg.

Yes, you're right. I did look briefly through your past posts, but missed the nutrient levels, sorry.

[Tabitha6 in reply to greygoose]

I bought the magnesium yesterday after seeing a recommendation for it and did wonder if the dose on container was too high for me. The suggested adult dose says 2 tablets twice a day or as recommended by an informed person. You are my informed person 😊 Thank you, best to halve the dose and take 1 twice a day?

[greygoose in reply to Tabitha6]

Just to be clear: does it say that each tablet contains 200 mg? Or does it say that the recommended dose of 2x2 tablets gives you 200 mg?

[Tabitha6 in reply to greygoose]

Container says:

Serving size. 2 tablets

servings per Container 60 (contains 120 tablets)

Amount per serving % Daily Value

Magnesium 200mg 48%

(From 2000mg magnesium lysinate glycinate chelate)

Does that help? Sorry for my confusion!

[greygoose in reply to Tabitha6]

OK! so you doubled the dose! And, it's not 200 mg per tablet, it's per two tablets. So, you're only taking 400 mg, which is fine.

[Tabitha6 in reply to greygoose]

I was looking at what was written on the back of the container and not the front 🙄. I’m not concentrating well these days - maybe all these vitamins will help 😂. Thanks again.

[greygoose in reply to Tabitha6]

I'm sure they will.

[Tabitha6 in reply to greygoose]

Then I see on the front. 100mg ... 120 tablets - that’s the answer I imagine.... 🙄. I’m being dense - sorry.

[Tabitha6 in reply to greygoose]

You gave me advice a day or so ago, which was what my new vitamin regime was based on, thank you. This post was details of what I’m taking for reassurance I’ve got it right - thank you for your help.

[humanbean]

Oxford Vitality Selenium 200mcg 1 tablet daily

Personal anecdote : I took 200mcg selenium per day for quite a while but evntually I realised that I felt better on the days I didn't take it. I stopped taking the selenium altogether for a month or two then restarted at 100mcg per day. This has worked fine for me ever since.

You might find this article useful :

restartmed.com/selenium-tox...

[Tabitha6 in reply to humanbean]

Thank you - good advice.

[SlowDragon Administrator]

Results from 10 days ago

Ferritin 94.86. (13-150)

Folate 4.89. (3.89-26.80)

B12 307 (197-771)

Thyroglobulin 0.4

Vitamin D not back yet.

Have you had vitamin D result?

Ferritin is good

Folate and B12 are low

supplement a good quality daily vitamin B complex, one with folate in (not folic acid) may be beneficial.

This can help keep all B vitamins in balance and will help improve B12 levels too

Difference between folate and folic acid

chriskresser.com/folate-vs-...

B vitamins best taken after breakfast

Igennus Super B is good quality and cheap vitamin B complex. Contains folate. Full dose is two tablets per day. Many/most people may only need one tablet per day. Certainly only start on one per day (or even half tablet per day for first couple of weeks)

Or Thorne Basic B or jarrow B-right are other options that contain folate, but both are large capsules

If you are taking vitamin B complex, or any supplements containing biotin, remember to stop these 7 days before ALL blood tests, as biotin can falsely affect test results

endo.confex.com/endo/2016en...

endocrinenews.endocrine.org...

Low B12 symptoms

b12deficiency.info/signs-an...

Might want to consider taking a B12 supplement and a B Complex (to balance all the B vitamins) initially for first 2-4 months, then once your serum B12 is over 500 (or Active B12 level has reached 70), stop the B12 and just carry on with the B Complex.

B12 sublingual lozenges

cytoplan.co.uk/vitamins/vit...

[Tabitha6 in reply to SlowDragon]

Thank you. Vitamin D 48 <30 deficient, 30-50 insufficiency likely may require replacement.

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Tabitha6]

Vitamin D - Presumably that’s 48nmol

How long had you been taking 5000iu before you did test?

GP will often only prescribe to bring levels to 50nmol.

Some areas will prescribe to bring levels to 75nmol

leedsformulary.nhs.uk/docs/...

GP should advise on self supplementing if over 50nmol, but under 75nmol (but they rarely do)

mm.wirral.nhs.uk/document_u...

improving vitamin D to around 80nmol or 100nmol by self supplementing may be better

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/218...

vitamindsociety.org/pdf/Vit...

Once you Improve level, very likely you will need on going maintenance dose to keep it there.

Test twice yearly via vitamindtest.org.uk

Vitamin D mouth spray by Better You is very effective as it avoids poor gut function. There’s a version made that also contains vitamin K2 Mk7

It’s trial and error what dose we need,

Calculator for working out dose you may need to bring level to 40ng/ml = 100nmol

grassrootshealth.net/projec...

Government recommends everyone supplement October to April

gov.uk/government/news/phe-...

With your Vit D, are you also taking it's important cofactors - magnesium and Vit K2-MK7?

Magnesium best taken in the afternoon or evening, but must be four hours away from levothyroxine

betterbones.com/bone-nutrit...

medicalnewstoday.com/articl...

livescience.com/61866-magne...

sciencedaily.com/releases/2...

Vitamin K2 mk7

betterbones.com/bone-nutrit...

healthline.com/nutrition/vi...

[Mickeydooley in reply to SlowDragon]

I’ve just seen the end of this answer re taking magnesium 4 hours away from levo. Didn’t know this before and I was taking magnesium 2 hours prior to levo. Can you tell me what effect that would have? My last FT3 and FT4 results were surprisingly low. Is that the reason? I got results of a dxa scan today and have been told that my bones are not as dense as others of my age. Would taking magnesium four hours away from levo help in any way?

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Mickeydooley]

Best to take magnesium supplements in afternoon or evening (Depending if you take levothyroxine at bedtime or morning)

[Mickeydooley in reply to SlowDragon]

I take my levo at bedtime (about 11.30) and was taking magnesium about 9.30 as I was told it might help me sleep if I took it in the evening. Does it affect absorption of the levo? Does it negate the effects of the magnesium? Would it have made a difference to BMD? Sorry for all the questions. I was a bit shocked to find that my bones are osteopenic.

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Mickeydooley]

So you need to take magnesium four hours minimum before levothyroxine

It might be affecting absorption of levothyroxine

Or you may just need more levothyroxine, or be poor converter of levothyroxine to Ft3

Low Ft3 is extremely common on just levothyroxine, especially if Vitamin levels are low

Low Ft3 can contribute to osteoporosis

Most medics only understand/recognise high Ft4 or over medicated on levothyroxine as cause of osteoporosis

Osteoporosis

thyroidpatients.ca/2018/07/...

[Mickeydooley in reply to SlowDragon]

One more question please. I take t3 in the afternoon. Does the four hour rule apply to it too?

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Mickeydooley]

Personally yes I avoid magnesium for four hours minimum before taking T3 (Taking T3 at 7am, 3pm and 11pm......magnesium at 7pm)

Do you normally split your T3 dose

[Mickeydooley in reply to SlowDragon]

Thanks. Yes I split my t3 dose. I take 10mcg about 4am and then second 10mcg at 3 or 4pm. (In addition to magnesium I take vit D and k2 spray, zinc and selenium). It’s so hard to keep everything apart and away from food and drink! 😩

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Mickeydooley]

Ever tried splitting 2nd dose into 5mcg at 3pm and 5mcg at 11pm

Obviously need to split this way on day before blood test for last small T3 dose to be max of 12 hours before test

[Mickeydooley in reply to SlowDragon]

No I haven’t. I used to take both 10mcg t3 along with levo about 3am but changed it to take levo at bedtime and 10mcg t3 at 3am and then second dose 3pm thinking it was better to split levo and t3 and spacing it all out a bit more. When I do testing I still leave 24 hours prior for levo and adjust t3 dose (10mcg) to 12 hours prior to test. What is the benefit of dividing the second dose again? I assumed it would be best to test more or less with the same regime as I usually carry out. Even with taking meds this way my FT4 was only 4% through range and t3 only 29% through range.

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Mickeydooley]

How much levothyroxine are you currently taking?

3 doses T3 at 8 hour gaps may give smoother levels

[Mickeydooley in reply to SlowDragon]

75mcg daily but have recently started to take 100mcg Friday and Saturday following my last test results. I find it very hard to take so many doses as I’m a grazer (not much of an appetite and find it hard to eat much at one sitting). Trying to take levo four hours before my breakfast (I usually take yoghurt or kefir with breakfast) means I need to take it at night. Then finding times to take the t3 away from food and drink (and supplements!) is difficult for me.

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Mickeydooley]

So you don’t need to wait four hours after taking T3

So levothyroxine at bedtime is easier to avoid calcium rich foods at breakfast

T3 at bedtime alongside levothyroxine obviously easy

T3 at 6am of 7am and breakfast an hour or so after is fine

Most Vitamins after breakfast

T3 at 3pm approx

Magnesium later around 7pm

[Mickeydooley in reply to SlowDragon]

Thank you! I’ll try that. Thanks for your patience. Much appreciated.

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Mickeydooley]

I cut my 20mcg tablet up to roughly 10mcg at 7am

5mcg at 3pm and 5mcg at 11pm

[Mickeydooley in reply to SlowDragon]

👍

[Tabitha6 in reply to SlowDragon]

Very helpful as always. Thank you.