A few more questions.........(Adrenals ???)

[Fox123]

I posted on here a couple of months ago and received some great replies that really helped. However, can I pose some more questions please? I am now on 2.25 grains of Naturethroid and have been for two weeks now ( I built up slowly over the past 6 weeks) . After initially feeling quite good,the past few days, I have been experiencing extreme fatigue again plus other symptoms like those experienced when I was under-medicated ( itchiness, joint pain, hair loss). I'm also getting raised pulse ( 104) in the evening. During the day, my blood pressure is fine ( in the green on my machine- 120 over 80 this morning with a pulse of 78- but my body feels like it's almost "trembling", deep inside ) I am not particularly fit at the moment ( I always have been an active outdoor worker) due to the fatigue caused by under medication. I felt fine last night, even though I could feel my heart beating quite strongly. Should I be concerned? Would it be safe to increase the NDT- and indeed, does it sound necessary? Am I being impatient and does it take longer for NDT to make a difference? Could it be an adrenal problem? I've never had adrenal check. Do I have to get Doc to do it or can Blue Horizon do that too? Sorry for so many questions, but I have no faith in doctors any more.

These are my bloods (Blue Horizon) from mid February;-

Biochemistry HbA1c-(IFCC) 35 20 - 42 mmol/mol CRP 0.50 <5.0 mg/L Ferritin 148.1 20 - 150 ug/L Magnesium 0.99 0.6 - 1.0 mmol/L

Hormones Insulin 30.8 0 - 88(Fasting) pmol/L

Thyroid Function TSH L 0.11 0.27 - 4.20 mIU/L T4 Total 119.0 64.5 - 142.0 nmol/L Free T4 19.88 12 - 22 pmol/L Free T3 4.48 3.1 - 6.8 pmol/L Reverse T3* 24.0 10 - 24 ng/dL Reverse T3 ratio L 12.15 Normal >15 Ratio Borderline 12-15 Low <12

Immunology Anti-Thyroidperoxidase abs H 38.6 <34 kIU/L Anti-Thyroglobulin Abs 24.9 <115 kU/L

Vitamins Vitamin D (25 OH) 51 Deficient <25 nmol/L Insufficient 25 - 50 Consider reducing dose >175

Vitamin B12 405 Deficient <140 pmol/L Insufficient 140 - 250 Consider reducing dose >725 Serum Folate 12.66 8.83 - 60.8 nmol/L

Thanks in advance.

[Clutter]

Fox123,

How much Levothyroxine were you taking prior to switching to NDT?

[Fox123 in reply to Clutter]

Clutter, I was on 150 mcg of Levothyroxine

[SeasideSusie Remembering]

Fox123 Have you done anything about supplementing to optimise your vitamins and minerals as suggested in your previous thread (ferritin is fine)?

Also, are you addressing the Hashi's as suggested?

[Fox123 in reply to SeasideSusie]

Hi Seaside Susie, Yes, I have upped my vit D supplement and added B12 and B complex. I have been gluten free and processed sugar free for the last 6 months now. I must admit I haven't added a magnesium or selenium supplement. It's a minefield out there and difficult to know what is good- I have been following a "diet" which is really just an extremely healthy eating plan ie, no gluten, no processed sugar, organic meat & dairy and plenty of vegetables ( organic where poss) . I do have 95% dark chocolate (50g daily) but presumably that wont supplement magnesium enough?

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Fox123]

Fox123 I don't know how much magnesium is in dark chocolate but the recommended amount (which most supplements contain) is around 300-400mg daily. I honestly don't know if magnesium through chocolate is considered an acceptable way to supplement magnesium as an important co-factor of D3.

Is your D3 supplement 5000iu daily? And your B12 1000mcg daily?

Selenium helps with conversion of T4 to T3 as well as helping reduce antibodies.

[Skyebeardie]

I'm interested in how fast you got to 2.25 grains. I started on 1 grain about 8 weeks ago and have got up to 2 only in the last day or so. I've found it incredibly up and down. Did you raise .25 every couple of weeks? I am still not optimal but getting there and religious about supplements. Good luck anyway, it's just good to hear someone on the same road.

[Fox123 in reply to Skyebeardie]

Hi Skebeardie, I was advised by Clutter (admin) the following;-

If you don't feel well on Levothyroxine then it may be worth trying NDT. You will need to transition over a few weeks. 150mcg Levothyroxine is equivalent to 2.25 grains NDT. You can reduce Levothyroxine dose by 75mcg and add 1 grain NDT. 2 weeks later you could reduce by another 75mcg and add another grain NDT. 2 weeks later add 1/4 grain NDT.

This is what I have done. I was originally on 150mcg of Levothyroxine.

[pinkjess17]

I would be very careful as your adrenals look low, inner trembling a dead give away and raised pulse. If they are struggling now I would cut back and look into adrenal support before it gets worse.

[Fox123 in reply to pinkjess17]

Thank you, pinkjess17, how do I go about getting adrenal support without going to doc please? I really couldn't face an inquisition at the surgery.

[pinkjess17 in reply to Fox123]

Fox123 you would probably be best doing a saliva test first, then supplement when cortisol is low.

Adrenal cortex or the whole glandular may help, but some people are sensitive to adrenaline in the whole glandular. Here's a good one:

the-natural-choice.co.uk/Ad...

Your free and total t4 is quite high for someone on NDT, showing poor conversion likely coming from under performing adrenal function.

[Fox123 in reply to pinkjess17]

Thanks, the blood test was done prior to my starting NDT. I was feeling so bad on levo that I decided to take the plunge and have a full thyroid check with Blue Horizon. I published them on here a couple of months back and received lots of great advice on how to start on NDT. 🙂

[Skyebeardie]

Hi Fox123 I stopped 175 levo (I was just awful) and started NDT. Should probably have done as you did but too late now. I do take adreno max and other herbal cortisol supplements for my adrenals and my trembling has really gone away now after about a month of taking them. It's a hell of a ride. Also feel better on nature throid than thyroid S.

[UrsaP in reply to Skyebeardie]

Hi Skyebeardie just reading this thread, and seeing you say you stopped levo. If it was not doing you any good - and more so, if it was going you harm...causing you more problems than it was worth - as it was with me, is it worth considering reporting it? I think there is a Yellow Card you can fill in online to report it. I stopped T4 about 9/10 years ago because i was unable to convert and became T4 toxic. I've only just heard about this 'yellow card' thing and am thinking to report it myself, despite the time lapse, as if we do, it may stop all these 'spokespeople' trying to stop T3 etc, saying things like 'the vast majority do ok on t4'. (Only because the gp's ignore us when we tell them we are not getting on with it! )

[Skyebeardie in reply to UrsaP]

I'll look up the yellow card. I was on levo for about 5 years. I was initially improved but for at least 3 years went downhill. I knew nothing about this thread, or hashimoto's or anything. My GP and 2 endo's sent me away as normal bloods but probably CFS! I discovered on this thread I a poor converter and have hashimoto's. Levo was making me sicker.

[UrsaP in reply to Skyebeardie]

Skyebeardie I was undiagnosed for well over a decade, even though gp sent me straight to specialist with goitre. Specialist (and his cronies!) couldn't make minds up if was/wasn't something?? Isn't that even more likely Hashi's - unfortunately 35+years ago I knew nothing thyroid, never mind Hashi's, but looking back, surely specialist knew? Took over a decade to get a positive for HypoT. Given T4 - spent 20yrs + trying to make it work - just got more and more toxic and ill. Eventually, after seeing another Endo, who did give me a small amount of t3, and it helped a bit, but far from optimal, went to see Dr P. (about 7 yrs ago) Adrenals were struggling, and once got them back on track ended up on t3 only. Made such a difference. Any life event which depleted adrenals, has a knock on effect even now, but I have a better idea as to what to do about it.

I was told depressed, lifestyle tired and al manner of things along the way, insinuations of being couch potato, needing more exercise, hypochondriac and even now, fighting for son who is struggling, getting insinuations of 'Munchausens'... Was told CFS by gp one time, so asked wasn't it connected to thyroid, told no, so asked what caused it then. They didn't know. So I said, as most people who have thyroid conditions end up with CFS isn't it likely that they are going to be connected in some way? HIs response - he had this theory that it was to do with part of the brain....??????

His theory, as a non-sufferer was obviously more important than mine, after all, I've only been living with it most of my life! And obviously he was not going to allow me to join the dots! What would I know!

Only found this forum this Jan, even though been onto TUK many times over the years, so glad I did...invaluable info and support.

I'm going to try to fill in a yellow card, even if outdated, still valid! And Gp's aren't going to do it for us!

[Skyebeardie in reply to UrsaP]

It's just a nightmare, so glad we both found the forum. Today I may not be great but I have options, expert experience in here, hope and most of all people who bloody understand!

[UrsaP in reply to Skyebeardie]

It is just the fact that we know that we are not alone that gives us hope! And some strength to hold onto some positivity, and keep going forward to find the answers. They are out there somewhere. All the best. Skyebeardie

[Venicefan]

I had the inner trembling and adrenal symptoms and 2 endos tested my cortisol and said it was normal because it was not low. When I had the saliva cortisol test through the private dr it turned out I had high cortisol and low DHEA. You really do need to get tested before you supplement.

[Elainemawby]

Hi. This is what has happened to me. You need to check adrenal function before supplementing as high/low cortisol can have similar symptoms. I used the Blue Horizon 4 point saliva test and found cortisol was sky high in the morning then crashed at midday. My functional doctor told me ndt can stimulate your adrenals to produce adrenaline which I think is my case. I had to back down my dose of ndt to one grain split into 3 doses which helped.

[Fox123]

Thank you everyone. Very helpful as always. I'll get tested with Blue Horizon. Xx

[Fox123 in reply to Fox123]

How fortunate that Blue Horizon have an "April Adrenal" offer on! Also an Easter 20- ie 20% off all tests for the Easter weekend!