My blood results from Blue Horizon ..

[Cree]

Biochemistry

CRP 0.40 <5.0 mg/L

Ferritin 21.3 20 - 150 ug/L

Thyroid Function

TSH 1.79 0.27 - 4.20 IU/L

T4 Total 85.6 64.5 - 142.0 nmol/L

Free T4 13.32 12 - 22 pmol/L

Free T3 3.56 3.1 - 6.8 pmol/L

Reverse T3* 15.0 10 - 24 ng/dL

Reverse T3 ratio L 15.45 >20 Ratio

Immunology

Anti-Thyroidperoxidase abs H 239.5 <34 kIU/L

Anti-Thyroglobulin Abs H 1663.0 <115 kU/L

Vitamins

Vitamin D (25 OH) L 40 Deficient <25 nmol/L

Insufficient 25 - 50

Consider reducing dose >175

Vitamin B12 308 Deficient <140 pmol/L

Insufficient 140 - 250

Consider reducing dose >725

Serum Folate 23.39 10.4 - 42.4 nmol/L

________________________________________________

[Cree]

Does it all look hunkydorey?

[greygoose in reply to Cree]

Nope. Your ferritin, vit D, vit B12, FT4 and FT3 are all too low. And your antibodies are high, so you have Hashi's.

You need to supplement the nutrients, and get and increase in T4/T3, whatever you're taking.

How do you feel?

[Cree in reply to greygoose]

Shall i put up what the dr's report said, he wrote a report and its all gobildygook :/ x

[greygoose in reply to Cree]

OK, let's have a look.

[Cree]

The thyroid function is currently normal. The positive thyroid antibody result, however, increases your risk of having, or developing, autoimmune thyroid disease. This represents a situation in which your body manufactures antibodies to the thyroid gland. This may lead to the development of either an underactive thyroid gland (hypothyroidism) or overactive thyroid gland (hyperthyroidism). If you believe you have symptoms of thyroid disease, it would be a good idea to discuss them with your usual doctor. Surveillance of thyroid function would be advisable usually.

The low reverse T3 ratio are unlikely to be of clinical significance. There is much controversy about the role of reverse T3 in thyroid illness. Conventional endocrinologists (hormone specialists) generally believe that knowing of the level of this substance does not influence thyroid treatment decisions. The alternative view however is that reverse T3 is effectively 'antithyroid' - T3 is the active thyroid hormone that stimulates the body's energy system (metabolism). Reverse T3 is a mirror image - it goes into cells, and instead of controlling metabolic processes it blocks the effect of T3. In this model, reverse T3 is effectively a hibernation hormone - in times of stress and chronic illness it lowers energy release from the cells - so normal thyroid levels with high reverse T3 may still result in hypothyroidism.

There is Vitamin D insufficiency. Vitamin D is manufactured in our skin as a direct result of sunlight exposure. One potential complication of prolonged Vitamin D lack is osteomalacia, a disease which causes severe structural deformities to the skeleton. Lower level Vitamin D deficiency can lead to a number of non specific symptoms, including possibly chronic fatigue (experts have for many years noted an association between sufferers of chronic fatigue syndrome or myalgic encephalitis (CFS or ME) and low blood levels of Vitamin D). It has been estimated that between 50-70% of people living in the northern Europe (where daylight length reduces your chances of receiving adequate sunlight in the winter) are deficient in this vitamin by March each year. Symptoms of vitamin D deficiency include chronic pain, weak bones, frequent infections (recent research has detected an association between vitamin D deficiency and severe pneumonia), depression and fatigue. Supplementation may be beneficial - please speak to your usual doctor about this result.

[humanbean in reply to Cree]

Is that the doctor's report from Blue Horizon? If it is I'm not totally surprised he/she toes the line with regard to your TSH, FT4 and FT3. I imagine all companies doing blood tests for the general public would stick to the same rules and guidelines as ordinary doctors do. I suspect there might be concerted attempts by the GMC or BMA or whatever to get the company put out of business if they did or said otherwise.

But the important thing is you have the numbers and reference ranges, so you have us to interpret your results for you, even if we don't have medical degrees.

I agree with all of greygoose 's comments. You have a lot of things that need raising or supplementing. I'm not sure what you take for your thyroid, or what supplements you are taking. Could you tell us, please, including brands and dosages.

You need to raise your ferritin up to about mid-range or even a tiny bit higher. For your reference range you should feel a lot better with a value of 80 - 100.

Your vitamin D needs to be closer to 100. But be aware that some people don't get on with vitamin D supplements and have to stop taking it. Under those circumstances I think you just have to rely on getting sun exposure to raise vitamin D. When supplementing vitamin D you should be taking vitamin K2 as well. Magnesium is also recommended, but avoid magnesium oxide, it is poorly absorbed.

Vitamin B12 - the Japanese apparently consider deficiency to start at levels below 500. The Pernicious Anaemia Society recommends a level of 1000. B12 isn't poisonous and excess supplementing will get excreted in urine. Lots of people have levels higher than that when they supplement B12.

Folate - your level is not bad at all. But if people supplement B12 they should also supplement with the other B vitamins to keep all the levels in balance. It is allegedly not a good idea to be high in one B vitamin and low in the rest. So buy a good B Complex, and take 1 a day.

I'll write more tomorrow. It's very late. Good night.

[Cree in reply to humanbean]

Hi Humanbean, yes that's the report from the Blue Horizon Dr. I take Spa Tone iron supplement but obviously need to take a higher dose. I'll Need to look into appropriate supplememts, just don't know What's the best kind to buy. Also do I need to ask Dr to add T3 or anything??

[humanbean in reply to Cree]

Starting with ferritin/iron :

I get the impression that Spatone works for a relatively small number of people. It has 5mcg elemental iron per sachet which is a very small dose, even if you absorb it well.

There are lots of different iron supplements, which different people tolerate to different levels. The ones that the NHS prescribes are given on this link :

evidence.nhs.uk/formulary/b...

The amount of elemental iron is just another name for the content of ferrous iron.

If you want to try any of the iron supplements listed on that link they are available from pharmacies without a prescription, if you avoid Boots (they insist on a prescription).

Avoid ferrous sulfate. Very, very few people tolerate it. The NHS loves it because it is very cheap.

The one I took myself is ferrous fumarate 210mg, one tablet three times per day. It cost about £5 per box of 84 the last time I bought them from Tesco or Lloyds Pharmacies.

The ones I've bought looked like this :

waltonpharmacy.co.uk/images...

or

images-eu.ssl-images-amazon...

but no doubt there are lots of other brands.

If you want to try something non-prescription then many people do well on iron bisglycinate or ferrous bisglycinate, also known as Gentle Iron. It can be bought from Amazon.

There are other forms of iron as well, known as ferritin or heme/haem supplements. They are apparently very well tolerated but are more expensive than the ones I've discussed above. Admin, helvella , has written a document about iron which is well worth reading :

dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u...

Anyone taking iron should take it at least 4 hours away from thyroid meds. Each dose should be taken with 500mg - 1000mg Vitamin C to help absorption.

If taking more than one dose of iron, build up dose over a few days, don't leap into taking maximum dose all in one go, to find out how well you tolerate it.

[humanbean in reply to Cree]

Vitamin D : Take about 5000 iU vitamin D per day. You need to take vitamin K2 with each dose of vitamin D. Magnesium supplements are also helpful with vitamin D. Personally I take 300mg magnesium citrate just before bed - it makes people sleepy, but there are lots of different kinds of magnesium supplements, including oral sprays, skin sprays, and also epsom salts which should be chucked in the bath.

Vitamin B12 - the most popular supplements of this are methylcobalamin in 1000mcg or 5000mcg doses. Popular brands are Jarrow Formulas and Solgar. Stick the tablets under the tongue and let them dissolve slowly, don't suck or chew. This is supposed to maximise absorption.

B Complex - it is best to take a B Complex with supplements of B12. The best ones include B vitamins in an already activated form which the body can absorb more easily. Personally I take Thorne Reasearch Basic B Complex, one a day, which includes methylfolate. It works for me, but there are loads more available with equally good ingredients.

[Cree in reply to humanbean]

Thanks very much for these, I'll get online tonight and buy them. I just bought 2 more boxes of Spa Tone last week too :/ I'm getting excited at the idea of actually feeling a bit better after all the supplements start to work

[humanbean in reply to Cree]

I would use up the Spatone. And when you buy anything for the first time buy a small amount. You never know what might not agree with you.

[humanbean in reply to Cree]

And don't forget that, particularly in the case of iron and vitamin D, they can both be dangerous in overdose. So regular testing is necessary to prevent over-dosing yourself.

The problem is that many of us don't absorb supplements or nutrients from food very well. So raising poor levels of ferritin or iron, for example, could take anything from 3 months up to 2 years up to never. So you also need to test to have some idea of how fast you absorb.

There are some extremely expensive iron supplements that apparently raise ferritin very quickly called Proferrin. I've never tried it, and it can only be imported from the US.

The only way I managed to raise my ferritin up to optimal was by giving up gluten, even though I do not have coeliac disease.

[Cree in reply to humanbean]

I take 100mc levothyroxine. If i raise the dose at all I start to feel hyper

[greygoose in reply to Cree]

I agree with everything humanbean says.

[humanbean in reply to greygoose]

[108Optimist]

Why did you get tested?

It's not hunky dory.

Take the results to your normal doc and the report. See what your doc offers and let us know.

You could start supplementing with vit d and actually your ferretin is very low so an iron supplement.

There's hea ps more to say but that is the basics along with what goose told you.

[Cree in reply to 108Optimist]

My hair falls out, my skin hurts and gets "swollen", I've got cellulite thsts working it's way down my legs at an awful rate, I get tired and so on but gp and enfo said it wasn't my thyroid and wouldn't prescribe me armour or t3. I bought T3 off the internet but got advised on here to get bloods taken privately. I'm on 100 mc levo and feel hyper with slight raise of dose. I've been taking liquid iron for months but still low. In going to see gp and ask to see a new enfo or I'll start self medicating t3 to see if I can feel better

[greygoose in reply to Cree]

Doctors only look at the TSH - they have no idea what the other things are! And your TSH is ok. They don't know anything about symptoms, either. And they refuse to believe that antibodies cause symptoms - which they do! So, that's why they won't treat you.

By the way, that's BS about being at risk of devolping autoimmune hypothyroidism, etc, Your antibodies are very, high, and your FT3 is very low, you HAVE autoimmune hypothyroidism.

100 mcg levo is just a starter dose. So, either increase that, or start the T3 - I would be more inclined to try raising my T4, first. It might be all you need. But, at the moment, your T4 is too low to see how you're converting. Plus, the advantage of being well on just T4 is that you keep doctors on your side - they don't like prescribing T3. But you do need to increase your levo by 25 mcg - not more than that!

[Cree in reply to greygoose]

I used to be on 200mc but over time I've had to decrease 25mc at a time as bloods were high. I need to see gp and ask for another endo and meantime look into getting suppliments?

[greygoose in reply to Cree]

You mean your FT3 was high? That's the only reason to reduce - unless you have hyper symptoms.

By 'look into getting supplements' do you mean getting tested? Because that's the way to do it - get your vit D, vit B12, folate and ferritin tested and go from there. Don't just buy a multivit in the supermarket!

[Cree in reply to greygoose]

Don't know what was high but said my results were high so was to reduce my dose. I assumed gp's knew what they were doing. By looking into getting supplements I mean read up on the best brands

[greygoose in reply to Cree]

ah, ok, but you will get tested, first, won't you?

No, doctors do not know what they're doing. We have to be very careful with following their instructions.

[Cree in reply to greygoose]

I've also had waves of anxiety regularly for about a year. Severe butterflies in my tummy for no apparent reason.

[greygoose in reply to Cree]

The reason is probably low T3.

[SlowDragon Administrator]

Would suggest you really need to get your Vit D, ferratin, B12 and folate levels improved first so that thyroid hormones can actually begin to work well. You may then find Levo works ok, but probably will also need slight increase.

You have high antibodies, which means Hashimoto's. Adopting a 100% gluten free diet can often really improve symptoms. Loads of info on here about this. It does need to be absolutely 100% to work though.

Good idea to ask GP to do blood test to see if you are coeliac first, before going gluten free.

[Cree in reply to SlowDragon]

What's the best suppliments for these vits etc?

[108Optimist]

Well obv there is something going on with your thyroid. An ultrasound can reveal damage if it's hashi's. Are you in uk? ? How can they possibly not acknowledge your antibodies? Havethey seen those results? Get a new doc and endo or5be prepared like a lot of us, to read all the books and self medicate and self test. Grrrrrr

Do you have digestive symptoms? You might not be absorbing iron, or maybe like me you can have a bacterial overgrowth. AND bacteria fave food is iron 😯😯

Work to optimal ranges

Tsh 0.3-2.5

Ft3 4.5-6.5

Ft4 17-25

I don't know enough about revt3 to say anything x

[Cree in reply to 108Optimist]

My voice has been croaky for 4 months now, I wondered if it might be my thyroid I'm going to make an appointment with and ask to be referred to another endo.

[108Optimist in reply to Cree]

Yes hoarse voice is symptom. If you stop to notice it might feel as if someone is strangling you too! !

[Cree in reply to 108Optimist]

Oh yes in in Britain and no digestive issues. Does a blood test reveal bacterial levels?

[108Optimist in reply to Cree]

In uk I'm not sure how easy it will be to get new endo bUT you can request second opinion do it that way? Make a new post perhaps others have done it. Bacteria better to see in stool sample or breath test. However if you don't have ibs symptoms or constipation or diarrhea then maybe no point.

[Cree]

I'm sooo fecked off, I've been in and out of gp surgery for 2yrs saying my thyroid was still dodgy even on 100mc levo! I'll phone tmrw but it'll be a couple of weeks until I get gp of my choice but when I see him I'm going to go mental! Cheers for the advice

[Cree]

I've ordered all the supplements that I need. Do i stagger them to begin with or do I just start them all at the full dose?