Firstly, apologies for the long post but I need help on a place I have never been to before and I am now there and have no idea what to do
Here are my latest results including two previous ones which might give some of the more experienced members more insight or see a pattern as to what is going on because I don't!!!
Some of the regulars might remember that I have been suffering from the most severe and debilitating anxiety hyper symptoms since October. My T4 dose at that time was 150mcg and my bloods kept showing my T4 constantly over range. Despite dropping every 2-3 weeks by 25mcg increments I still had classic hyper symptoms and lost over a stone in weight. I have now been on 75mcg for a month which seems to have levelled out my T4 and is in line with my current weight.
Even though this has dropped dramatically to within range from 28.20, alas my T3 has also dropped, too far in my mind. Have copied my GP and Endo with my results but to be honest I don't bank on hearing anything back from either of them as I provided them with my very high cortisol level results about a week ago and have heard nothing back since...so in effect it feels like they most probably don't give a sh** about me, just like most of the others
Is this most likely a typical Hashi's pattern because for the last 10yrs up to last September I had been on 150mcg with no problems or fluctuations?
Had a Genova saliva cortisol test recently and my results are scary but my nutritionist said she had seen the same high levels in others. I had high anxiety the day of the sample taking and it took me over half an hour to fill sample 1 and 2 because my mouth was so dry. With the anxiety in mind I can only assume it had something to do with my high levels? I was slightly over the time on the first 2 samples but Genova said that wouldn't have made much difference. The report with the results also says that my results ( don't want to type it all here as my post is long enough) MAY be due to stress, anxiety, smoking and hypoglycaemia which I do experience if I haven't eaten for a while and the anxiety I had been having causes me nausea so that did in fact prevent me from eating properly.
As I said earlier I have recently started working with a nutritionist. I had a load load of bloods done and they go off to some fancy lab which then produces a minefield of test results and my nutritionist then builds a diet specifically for me around those results (which I have). I started a 2 day detox on the 16th and for the next two weeks I am on a strict metabolic balance die, eating 3 meals a day with brekkies before 10am and two other meals 5hrs apart, all items weighed. The detox days left me feeling "feek and weeble" and still feeling like that 3 days into my diet, but apparently it's normal. I also have to have a tsp of apple cider vinegar with each meal to help with digestion. Still getting the anxiety and palps too, although no where near as bad
The reason I mentioned the above is that I don't know whether it's my new diet that is now making me feel hypo or the low T3.
I was wondering whether to take 75/100 Levo alternate days to see if that will notch up my T3 a little bit without sending my T4 over again. Need advice please as I am now touching on areas that I have never been to before and have no idea what to do. I have purchased a reverse T3 test from Genova but wanted to hold off doing it until I got the above results back, is it now worth me getting that checked as well?
Jennie xx
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Jefner
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I think you should do the RT3 as that can stop t3 getting to the cells.
High cortisol inhibits t4 converting to ft3 and that is the active hormone which you need a good level of.
You also need to address your extremely high cortisol levels.
I am using holy basil at the moment.
I don't know how much it costs to see your nutritionist but whatever she is getting you to eat won't bring down your high cortisol. It won't also bring your ft3 up.
yeah Clutter said that my T3 might drop when I lowered my T4 but it took about 3 months to get my Levo right again because of the loss of weight (which I didn't know about until my Endo told me). All the nasty hyper symptoms were the icing on the cake and crashed my adrenals. Last year was bad anyway with depression and stuff and then in the autumn I started to go hyper.
It's a metabolic balance course for 3 months, everything starts in the gut so that has to be put right first. She has quite a bit of experience with autoimmune problems. Have been reading up only this afternoon about cortisol affecting T4 - T3 levels. Will get the rt3 test done now but if it shows I am not converting well enough, what do I do? Try for some T3 from my doc?
siberian ginseng is also good apparently which my nutritionist will be adding to my diet soon I hope, along with some probiotics. How long have you been taking the basil and noticed any difference yet?
Jefner,
The drop in meds is indicated in a higher TSH. Latest results show T4 now within range but T3 is under range. T3 is the important active hormone and an insufficiency could make you feel very unwell.
Many members function better with a TSH of around 1.0 and T4 & T3 in the upper third of range..
TPOAb are very high and need to be reduced. Many members have found a gluten free diet helps to reduce thyroid antibodies and so inflammation.
Ferritin & B12 are good although many members advocate a B12 level of 1000.
Imbalanced thyroid hormones, stress, anxiety, smoking and hypoglycaemia will all stress the adrenals glands and compromise cortisol levels.
Your high levels indicate too much adrenal activity which will eventually deplete leaving insufficient levels and other sex hormones to compensate.
Hypoglycaemia is a symptom of adrenal fatigue as cortisol helps to balance blood sugar levels. A detox that leaves you feeling "feel and feeble" can not be good for either the adrenals or thyroid hormone synthesis.
Eating regular meals with protein , healthy fats and low GI carbs will help adrenal function. ACV is good with your meals as will help to aid digestion & so absorb nutrients..
Your nutritionist needs to have a knowledge of thyroid disorders and especially Hashiomotos Auto immune Disease to treat you properly.
Supplementing 100 mcg Selenium will not only help to reduce thyroid antibodies but aid T4 to T3 conversion so increasing the T3 level..
Some people will only do well on T4 when T3 is added as another thyroid hormone replacement.
This following link explains the importance of vitamins and where they may be obtained. This forum is supported by the charity ThyroidUK. You do not have to join the charity to benefit from this forum but by doing so you will be supporting the charity and also entitled to various discounts when buying supplements, as detailed in the link below.
Disclaimer: I am not a medical professional and this information is not intended to be a substitute for medical guidance from your own doctor. Please check with your personal physician before applying any of these suggestions.
Hi flower, I am on vitamin D supps and have been for a while along with K2. My selenium levels have also been checked and are over range.
Can't get my head around how the TSH works as regards results. Don't understand why it has got up when I have reduced my Levo. Understand T4 and T3 but TSH I just can't get my head around how it works. What does it mean then when TSH rises?
The detox is part of the metabolic balancing help I am getting. It's a case of starting everything again from scratch in my gut. I am currently eating better than I have for a long time because I have 3 good meals a day, each one at a certain time of day and each one is high in protein with veg/fruit/salads/nuts & seeds to prevent sugar levels spiking. I always have my seeds for breakfast because of the selenium and magnesium content. I am not getting as hypoglycaemic as I was too :). I am laying the foundations over the next 14 days before moving onto the next phase to get my gut back working as it should be as I have also had digestive problems due to all the anxiety of overmedicating. I have been gluten free since the beginning of January and my antibodies had a huge drop between December and January although recent bloods shows a slight increase
Yes, she has lots of experience in the autoimmune field
Your eating plan sounds good as protein is so important with every meal.
Until your sugar levels stabilises it is important not to get hungry or you are stressing the adrenals further. I snack on Pulsin protein bars or Pulsing Pea Protein mixed with rice/almond milk in between meals.
You can also add this to g/f porridge or a pancakes which I eat for breakfast.
You may find find once your adrenals are in better health your thyroid meds work better as a high cortisol levels can inhibit thyroid function by decreasing TSH, lowering thyroid production & increasing T4-RT3 conversion.
Stress can result from psychological, physiological and/or physical, nutritional, and environmental reasons and it is important to address these and remove what you can from your life. I practice lots of mediation and yoga.
If you feel heavy after eating protein you could try Betaine HCL with Pepsin to help digestion (instead of the ACV). Don't use if you have stomach ulcers or are using PPI's. - see link below
Waking between 1-4pm is caused by the liver lacking glycogen reserves required for conversion by the adrenals to keep blood glucose levels balanced throughout the night. Snacking on a g/f whole grain cracker & peanut butter before bed will help to balance sugar levels.
Disclaimer: I am not a medical professional and this information is not intended to be a substitute for medical guidance from your own doctor. Please check with your personal physician before applying any of these suggestions.
thank you flower. Being the first week on my new diet I have had a couple of moments of going hypoglycaemic and I just have a tiny piece of sheep's cheese to take the edge off. Initial part of this metabolic balance is re-tuning my stomach with more nutritious foods and the right ones. I am a bugger for carbs, ate too much bread and didn't realise that it was also high in sugar and causing my spikes.
I go to bed far too late (normally around 1-2am) but that's how my body clock has been for years thanks to the menopause. I would normally sleep all the way through but the last couple of weeks I tend to wake up 3-4hrs later for some reason. I now know it's because of my high cortisol levels.
Can't have eggs for breakfast at the moment, it's not on my diet plan for brekkie choices. Trying foods I have never tried before including sheep's yoghurt which I would love for breakfast but as it's calcium and I am not an early riser I can't have it at the moment unless I set my alarm to take my meds really early and then go back to sleep.
When I move onto the next phase which is called the relaxed phase and I can reintroduce more foods especially good fats, I wanted to buy some protein bars to nibble on but all the ones I see in the shops are too high in sugar and fats
• in reply to
Jefner,
TSH is produced by the pituitary & tells the thyroid gland to secrete more hormone (T4).
T4 travels in the blood stream to peripheral tissues and gets converted into T3.
Therefore when T4 & T3 levels are low , TSH will rise to encourage the thyroid gland to produce more hormone..
T3 then has to get inside your cells to bind onto the nuclear receptor and become active.
This is a simplified version of the sequence of events and there are many hindrances along the way.
Starting with your adrenal health is an excellent start in recuperating good thyroid hormone synthesis.
Also ensure iron and all nutrients are optimal.
Flower
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Disclaimer: I am not a medical professional and this information is not intended to be a substitute for medical guidance from your own doctor. Please check with your personal physician before applying any of these suggestions.
A reverse T3 test can be useful but it is difficult getting anyone to interpret it.
It is immensely complicated as all sex hormones have to be considered in combination with symptoms and doctors don't usually consider those..! ! ! ...
High cortisol will inhibit the 5-deiodinase enzyme (type 1) reducing the amount of converted T3. The T4 is then converted in RT3 via 5-deiodinase enzyme (type 3).
There is research into RT3 continuing even after cortisol has been balanced, as the T3 and RT3 ratio imbalance can inhibit the 5-deiodinase enzyme (type1) so not allowing normal T3 conversion.
Usual causes of high RT3 are adrenal fatigue/exhaustion, hypoglycaemia, nutritional deficiencies, low sex hormones. Also inflammation (high thyroid antibody count), dieting, nutrient deficiencies such as selenium, zinc, Vit B6 & Vit B12, Vit D, Vit E, iron & iodine, low testerorone, low human growth hormone, insulin, free radical overload and toxic metal exposure.
All these are usually completely overlooked by GP's and endos.
If I were you I would concentrate on healing adrenals, reducing high TPOAB's and review in 6 months time.
Flower
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Disclaimer: I am not a medical professional and this information is not intended to be a substitute for medical guidance from your own doctor. Please check with your personal physician before applying any of these suggestions.
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• in reply to
Jefner,
Adequate Vit D and fish oils (omega 3) have been shown to reduce inflammation.
I supplement Curcumin and Resveratrol which has had good results..
Disclaimer: I am not a medical professional and this information is not intended to be a substitute for medical guidance from your own doctor. Please check with your personal physician before applying any of these suggestions.
will be having my Fish Oil and Omega 3 supps again soon but not in the first phase where I am at the moment. What strength do you take for the Curcumin and Resveratrol?
if I get mine done, and readings come back high due to storing it and not being active. How is it corrected? And what does it mean if the levels come back low?
Low RT3 is normal as we have a need for a little to balance high T3 levels.
High RT3 is addressed with T3 thyroid hormone replacement but needs very careful assessment as causes are multifactorial.
If you want to go down this road you will need to get all sex hormones tested and an endo who understands deiodinase behaviour.
RT3 is a symptom rather than a cause so the underlying cause needs to be addressed first.
The Curcumin & Reserveratrol supplement I take is organised by my nutritionist and are the main components of an anti inflammatory combination. Your practitioner should know of equivalent available products.
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