Hi All, I have been meaning to write something on this subject for a while. I know we have some users that have visual issues and some use screen readers. So I was wondering about some of the subjects we have seen recently on posts with non text characters like lines or emojis and what people thought about them?
Generally I will just ignore the post completely as I do find them jarring and not accessible but that could just be me. But I realise for some it is not a choice and with the likes of screen reader software it will be a big challenge for them to process.
So without judging anything that has already happened I would like to take the temperature of the forum on this.
Written by
desquinn
Partner
To view profiles and participate in discussions please or .
I don’t have visual issues, so can’t comment on that front. But I think emojis are quite important to some people - they help them express themselves properly.
Sometimes emojis also help to clarify the tone of a comment. Written words can often be misconstrued, but the image helps to set the scene.
This is about their use in subjects. But I do find the emojis within conversations as sentences hard to decipher especially when they have dual meaning.
But again this is more about subject titles of posts. And if someone cannot make sense of it then it stops the post being read. Then there are people with dyslexia that it will be a barrier for.
Your first sentence there is exactly the kind that needs an emoji after it to soften the impact 🙂
I know you were talking about subject lines, but if a title has emojis in it, the post is likely to have them as well...
Guess it’s up to each user to write in the style that feels comfortable to them. It would be different for marketing material etc - absolutely needs to be accessible to all. But this is personal content.
I did not think that it did need softening at all and as I have said elsewhere there is a tendency to be seen as insincere.
Personal content or not if it stops things being accessible then we need to think about it especially as they are syndicated to the NHS fibro page.
We have as an admin team edited posts before that were all emojis or had a lot of non text characters in the subject but wanted to get some wider views on their use.
Possibly but or she range on here is more weighted towards older people but I being in It adapt to acronyms and language and use emoticons or emojis from time to tone as well and have been using them since IRC and ICQ was a thing. But I am sure you can agree that an aubergine appearing on the fibro page on NHS is not what we want 😩
Agree - definitely no aubergines!! I guess, as a journalist, I feel strongly about freedom of expression. But tricky to get the right balance for everyone.
totally agree about freedom of speech and not seeking to restrict anything within body of posts but if people are being offensive in emojis and it is reported then we would act.
I like the idea that you are a journalist, there is something quite flattering about corresponding with one.
I like the written word though have issues that make it frustrating difficult at its infuriating worst and I am always impressed by people that can rattle out unblemished words and sentences
We all have our strengths and everyone is different. Writing comes naturally to me - but speaking does not! I am terrible at communicating my feelings out loud.
You did a great job correcting your post, so as much as writing may be frustrating for you, you’re very capable.
But things can be taken the wrong way quite easily so it adds a bit of peace of mind. For both parties especially if the humour is a little tong in cheek.
as I said in another post about communication the sender can only control the intent behind what they send. The recipient can spin or take it in a completely different manner than the sender intended. Just like something can be sarcastic or sardonic or a double entendre it needs to be appreciated in context.
For me I don't think it's so much about adding the odd emoji or emoticon but more about the mind numbing numbers some people add to a post that makes my eyes water 😳😳🤣
Now if I went on to add a further 2/3 or more lines of emojis and no further text to this reply. What would be the point? In some instances IMO too many emojis do nothing to enhance a topic. I actually think it can take away from what is trying to be expressed.
I also have a problem with too many videos /YouTube been added to posts if I want that kind of interaction I pop on FB.
Sometimes you really can get too much of a good thing 😂 I just think there's a time and place for everything. We like a joke, or song here at FMAUK but we should also remember most people come here looking for help and support on many difficult issues. If they see the forum looking more like FB it may stop them from posting incase they may not be taken seriously.
So yes emojis, jokes and YouTube clips please. But I do feel they would be better used more in moderation 👍
again this is more about the use in the subject line of the post but as Dizzy is saying finding the balance is often difficult and this forum has some limits on it that get in the way of allowing more diversity of posting type. This is why we have the current limit on image posts within 24 hours for example.
If we had a fun subforum for example then moving less support oriented posts there would be ideal and help keep the balance for all.
But the main aim of this forum is to support people with fibromyalgia and specifically their queries rather than maintaining a smile or crafting support for example. A little is okay but when it diverts from the support aim of the forum then the admin team needs to intervene.
Hi sorry bananas I was a bit slow there intriguing conceptually though I had never even thought of the reality of being blind and the computer reads it so i am doing my very best to get the spelling correct its not easy honest
So this may still turn out to be gibberish to you. That was meant to be humour.
I had to wright that as was concerned about about it being taken the wrong way. and not a smiley face insight.
Peace and good health to you you made me smile good word that is Gibberish
My punctuation probably wont help either and hear is a big Kiss X
Quick edit there was a smiley face missing from other message
I personally don't feel the need to have them in the subject header.
I also don't mind the odd one here and there in the actual post. I use them myself at times😊
But with out offending anyone at all when I say I don't see the need for lines of them at the end of a post. Sometimes upto 3 or 4 lines of the things. And that becomes for me personally even more annoying when a person may write just a few words, for example. Hello how are you. Then goes on to post lines and lines of emojis. But each to there own I guess but not for me sorry.
I understand the rationale but it does not achieve that aim on a mobile. It requires a screen of about 600 pixels so a pc or tablet is required.
My post was not just about emojis but all non text characters. The purpose of the subject is to give people an idea of what the post is about. When it does not do that then it is failing in its purpose.
As a blind person members can put up as many as they like...I can't see them anyway. Seems only sighted people have a problem with them. I don't know any software which can read them.
But I was taught to read and write using words to express what I wanted to say.. If you need to use silly little faces instead of words then I will ignore that post and move on as it will be pointless trying to understand
this is not just about emojis but non text characters as well. A subject to a post is designed to give people reading a clue as to what the post is about. We also have people with dyslexia, vision issues and perhaps as people have highlighted that some may be emoji challenged
Got to agree though that the written word is important and very useful and been about for a while for the express purpose of communicating
Its nice to make a title a bit of a head line rather than just a written line and dyslexic people often struggle with jumping line when reading, so clarifying lines I find helpful.
Having been on accessibility courses and consulting my dyslexic subject expert i.e. my other half I found that this would be challenging for a lot of people. Also on a phone it looks a lot worse than you perhaps intended.
Particularly on the phone it makes all the lines more erratic and of course some people with visual issues may be using larger text sizes so your nice two lines may not be what others see.
I can appreciate that but you are able to participate within the forum posts without issue. When ever we consider items such as this and discuss whats best for the forum we often end up with a compromise.
As i said it is done solely for the presentation for me visual balance and your information that it is all about the screen one views it on was very useful as I said previously.
I would add I have. only ever seen it on a wide screen yet i can visualise just how compromised my visual balancing may well be when viewed on a phone I did thank you for the information ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Hi there, Just in case you you missed reading the start of the thread for some reason. I hope this helps with understanding what desquinn is referring to
Hi All, I have been meaning to write something on this subject for a while. I know we have some users that have visual issues and some use screen readers. So I was wondering about some of the subjects we have seen recently on posts with non text characters like lines or emojis and what people thought about them?
I understand that emoji's for a subject line can cause problems. To be honest, I think they are used, on the whole instead of words in a body of text a little too often. The ideal would be to use them as short hand in personal texts and messages. I'm not sure they work on a forum like this. I can't see the emoji's clearly and coupled with unconventional spelling, some messages are lost to me because I don't understand them.
Exactly while i understand desquinn is questioning there use only in the header. I do agree with you when used too frequently across the many posts it can become difficult to understand xx
I think emojis used in moderation are acceptable, and if chosen carefully can express a feeling.
What I don’t like is when there are rows and rows of them, it kind of defeats the purpose.
If I see a post with a subject header with mainly emojis, I usually skip it as it is generally a post between friends, and not generally a post of someone looking for support.
Take care everyone.
GP 😊😊.
I generally sign off with happy faces, but if appropriate sometimes I use 😢.
I think balance is key here not too much of one and not too little of another
thought about doing a poll but the polls on here are a bit inflexible. However, I wanted to get some views first of all. We have been planning to do a microsoft forms survey of the forum for a bit but have a few things going on at the moment
I think this discussion has brought a few unknowns to the surface and to the attention of of the general users of the forum. I would like to see if there is more to be aware of.
Again this is not about getting rid of emojis on the forum or limiting them in the body of posts. Its about emojis and non text characters being overused or misused in the subjects / titles of posts.
Really it is about making subjects descriptive so that people can know what a post is about before opening it.
No emojis in titles seems like a good idea to me. 🙂
Perhaps a guideline that emoji should come at the end of a sentence in a post, would help?
Some posts have quite a few and I’m guilty of this at times, so you could suggest say, three emojis per post. This would make it easier for people with screen readers and dyslexia and still allow people emotional expression, when they need it.
Unless they form a pictorial pattern, I don’t read strings of emojis, as they take too much brain energy to decipher.
Just wondering, if adding the emoji emotion in brackets, where it is essential to give context, might be helpful. Aubergines, aside! 🙈 (speak no evil).
I’m retiring to a safe distance now, please be kind.
Hi there Rosey, I hope your doing ok and having no bother with those nasty shingles 😬
I agree about the moji that's how I tend to use them I think they are more understandable in relation to what's been said if put at the end of a sentence Imo.
To be honest I never knew when whole lines of them are strung together they are meant to actually form some sort of text lol too many together make my eyes twiz. Maybe that's why I'm dizzy 😂
Hi Momo, lovely to hear from you, how are you doing?
No bother with pesky shingles since Jan/Feb, thankfully. Unfortunately, my asthma has kicked off big time with high tree pollen and humidity, so on the dreaded prednisone and having to nebulise, but very grateful that I’m otherwise ok. 🙂 (smile)
Emoji can be such a help at times, but too many and the brain switches off - I can see how that might make your head spin!
I'm happy enough with the odd emoji, but hundreds of them embedded in the text are off putting to say the least! There are so many nowadays, but I'm happiest using just a few, to emphasise a point, especially where I've mucked up!
Cheers, Midori
I completely ignore these type of posts as i prefer to read letters, but im not against one or two emoji's per post but more than that is overkill and pointless so i just scroll past them
Me? I just posted some emojis on the back of harleyquin1 post I shall delete it if it’s caused offence
desquinnPartnerVolunteerFMAUK Trustee• in reply to
If you follow the post it would be similar to be replying with something like blah blah blah blah
As is it would not make sense and could be taken as insulting since we are talking about whether it is easy to communicate and have highlighted done if the difficulties and you have just done something that flies in the face of the spirit of the conversion.
Thank you Des. Guess I was very surprised to find the subject we have been disscussing ignored.
I have yet to meet a screen reader that reads whatever those little things are. They read text that is there function. It is hard enough to keep up sometimes as they read every word yet a sighted person reads just every 4th word.
Mine will also give a short audio description of a picture ie tree, people, laughing but that's limited.
"Hello I have yet to meet a screen reader that reads whatever those little things are. They read text that is there function. It is hard enough to keep up sometimes as they read every word yet a sighted person reads just every 4th word."
That was really informative thank you. X
Though not sure that sighted people only read every 4th word. I read every word perhaps that,s a word blindness thing.
I use the description word blindness as i think its an informative and pretty sounding description of the issue.
I really don,t like the look of or sound of the modern word Dyslexia and its hard to spell.
My son has dyslexia, and dyspraxia, I have discalculia and dyspraxia. I agree, it can cause difficulties, especially as most folk with these conditions are highly intelligent.
Hi am not sure what " discalculia and dyspraxia" are I will Google it.
It is also true that dyslexia, that ugly word all of them are ugly words, so I will stick with word blindness.
It is true to say that people wit word blindness percentage have a higher I.Q. Thought I think the jury is out as to weather its genetic or because we have to work harder in this world, that is dominated and driven by and we are therefor judged by the written word.
Dycalculia is the number version of Dyslexia. I can calculate in my head but not easily on paper.
Dyspraxia is extreme clumsiness, knocking into stuff, tripping over your own feet all the time, turning and knocking something off a table, etc. it's partly to do with spacial awareness, and can happen if you have a fault in your sight which results in monocular vision, which is why, now I only have one working eye that I don't drive any more.
Thanks for explanation. It must of been frustrating a growing up when other people can do that numbers thing so simply and you cant get it but don,t know why that how I found it with the written word Bl---y irritating. I was luck though as had a great Teacher who simply encouraged me to wright as I would speak, do my best with the spelling and missing words but what wrote was normally comprehensible and she thought interesting or amusing.
Sorry to hear about your vision that,s a harsh reality. I have 2 Granddaughters that have a very rare condition were the fibres that attach the lenses to the muscles are breaking so their lenses are loose, they in fact don,t sit over the centre of the eye anymore, if they did they would remove them.
So they have some brilliant glasses that work for them.
Hope your son dose not suffer to much anxiety from his issues.
It's just a polite conversation and exchange of views. There's no competition. I think everyone's a winner. I'm learning a lot of stuff I never knew before about how blind people read posts etc. 😊
I think the “win” is in raising awareness on both sides. Which this debate has done.
Emoji users now know that it can be frustrating for the visually impaired. And the visually impaired now know that emoji users don’t mean to be annoying!
So if emoji users try to accommodate this in their posts by using them sparingly, not in strings, and not in titles, this would (I think) be appreciated by the visually impaired.
And if the visually impaired could help us by pointing out when things are unclear or unhelpful - and be understanding when we get it wrong - that would be great.
This goes back to the “balance” you flagged earlier.
It is a bit of a know win though as what is for the best who knows I dont, I just need to be able to express what I is feeling I hope I got that right perhaps maybe ummmmmmmm, 😀¯\_(ツ)_/¯😀
I see this discussion as a win no matter what as peoples views are sought, the conversation takes place and views are exchanged so that all are represented.
Ultimately the admin team will look at what is best for the forum on the information that is in this discussion, accessibility knowledge and what compromise may work for all.
Again the forum is here for support and words are enough to make that happen and if other things get in the way of overtake other things then they would be moderated.
I find them really frustrating in the subject line of a post.
I also hate to see rows and rows of emojis in the subject of a post. I just don't see any need for them, and I find them really off putting, and they actually hurt my eyes.
In my last job I went in many awareness courses and learnt so much about what for a visually handicapped person can be a stumbling block to understanding what is written. An example is that even the colour of the background or print makes such a difference. If there are too many emojis, especially if they are strung together it is as though there is a complete blank in the sentence. This could make a sentence incomprehensible or cause misunderstandings.
Perhaps the compromise could be no emojis in the title of a post and emojis only at the end of a sentence. I think that might work for everyone.
I know in one of the book forums I am a member of we are asked to post a description of any pictures we put on so everyone can fully engage with the post as the screen reader see the picture as a blank.
I have to admit if I am doing an email to a friend I might use one or two so I'm not against them. It would just be nice to think that everyone in the forum can understand each post.x
Your point about images is one that we share here as well and have been asking people to put context on image posts for a while and stepped this up a bit more recently.
Don't worry if it is something you have never come across before you weren't to know. Years back I used to be a volunteer on a Talking newspaper and with my last job I represented my charity on different panels and meetings. When the council were going to make any changes or start new ways of people accessing their services we would discuss these things and there would be a person from an organisation helping the visually handicapped there. I was also on courses with visually handicapped people and two of my friends had visual handicaps. I learnt from them what helped them and what they found difficult so it is easier for me to understand the post by desquinn .x
Hi I like that attitude as the Handicapped word is not pleasant to hear. Bit like the dyslexia, word for me,
I do find the word Blind a very harsh way of expressing that reality as someone that is not. I find it difficult to use it makes me flinch internally perhaps that is solely because it is a very scary scenario for sighted people.
Its a little like wanting to assist someone in a wheel chair, without wanting to offend.
Don't be afraid...being blind has never stopped me doing anything I want. Like any disabled person we find another way of doing the things we want to do. Unconventional maybe but normal to us.
And always offer help rather than assume. Don't be offended if a person says no thank you
I am me first blind second. Just like everyone on this forum who has or connected with fibro.
Hi I just got to love you. I do know what you mean about the fear of intruding I generally try and overcome it. A little fearless in that way, but do suffer the turmoil inside.
It is strange though not knowing about something that is dramatically affecting how what one is writing is being perceived. I do feel a good bit wiser for this post
I have 2 Granddaughters that have some very rare, serious and on going and developing visual problems.
Thought they are both doing very well at the moment, better than expected in reality. I do fear for the long term outlook as the doctors say the intention at present is to keep them seeing.
Peace and sunny days to you Harley X
We do have one member on the forum who makes posts and comments with text and also a great deal of emojis, they are a very empathetic, kind, understanding and caring person ☺️my concern with this subject is that maybe a sensitive person like this would be "put off" and lost from the forum? No?
desquinnPartnerVolunteerFMAUK Trustee• in reply to
Hidden I have made this clear from the start that it is not just about emojis but non text characters. Also it is about the subject line and for the benefit of all with the forum.
I also wanted this to be a discussion about what is best for the forum so that all views can be considered and to try and find the best fit.
It's been a really interesting and imformative discussion and it's nice that we get to see everyone's different opinions! Thanks for bringing the subject up everyone's views are important on a forum such as this! Please take care.
So you write your subject as you would normally with all its smiley things etc then I pop up with my label and you write it out again for me to understand?
These seems to be a fairly recent fashion to add all the pictures.
From my own point if you write in words then my reader can read. Add whatever at end which doesn't interfere with the meaning of the subject matter.
Yes I've heard. Your subject tells me Painting by numbers so I ignore the post and move on. But if you posted those same words with little pics in between words or instead I wouldn't have a clue.
That's what I'm saying. Subject title in words only.
This thread has really bought out lots of information and expressions of views
Content on HealthUnlocked does not replace the relationship between you and doctors or other healthcare professionals nor the advice you receive from them.
Never delay seeking advice or dialling emergency services because of something that you have read on HealthUnlocked.
Why I love this site
A work in progress
Dear DC........
ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!
