Tribunal charge???

[Celticmoon]

Firstly I like to say that I do not know all the details of this but I've just heard from my husband that there is a proposal that tribunals will be charged to the claimant if their claim for ESA fails!!!!!!!! From the little I know this is ...

[Celticmoon]

Oh this is the first time I've posted a question and I'd written a long account... Can anyone see the full story or is it just the first two lines, which is all I am able to see??? I do hope it hasn't got wiped...

[bluebell10 in reply to Celticmoon]

i hope not, i did read that if you tried to make a false claim from last october that you wouldn't be able to claim benefits again tho,i don't know how true it is, & sorry to tell you..it's just the 1st 2 lines i can see on yr post, oh & if you're new a very warm welcome xx

[Celticmoon in reply to bluebell10]

Thank you bluebell...

I'm not new (but thank you very much for the welcome) it's just that I rarely post... Fibro and the pain and fog that goes with it is my best friend these days and replaced my confidence.

Oh dear I spent about an hour putting together that post. Never mind it is now relaxing in the ether somewhere with the fluffies I expect. Hey ho.

Basically I was talking about how people on benefits are not in the position of being able to pay out huge legal costs so are likely to drop their case for benefit with this latest fear factor if it is implemented. There was more... but to my embarrassment now (even though it's less than 2 hours later) I'm unable to recall what I said!! Probably not that important then eh?

Right now I'm waiting (along with many others I'm sure) for my claim for ESA to be renewed. I sent in my claim in January but haven't heard anything yet... I actually paid for recorded delivery to ensure that ATOS got it all safely but when a signature was not forth-coming my husband rang them to be told that they had indeed got the form ok but that all claims go to a post box... ... ... a post box, which is only emptied once a week!!!!!!!!!!! Also letters posted there are never signed for because no one takes delivery of them... ... ... So paying for recorded delivery is yet another waste of money.

I'll remember to copy my comments and posts before I press the send button next time!!!

Wishing you well.

xx

[bluebell10 in reply to Celticmoon]

hi celticmoon,im sorry i realised a couple of minutes after my reply that i had seen u before, god im so dozy at times! also a few pages away i came across your post, so all your time hasn't been wasted yl be pleased to hear again i apologise for my lapse in concentration (im getting worse) lol i meant to of got back to you to let you know but i started reading a few posts & forgot! you know about all this atos thing, well my husband had been on incapacity for a while now then when i had to give up my job a couple of yrs ago he began to get income support for me, he was told at the jobcentre this way would be better than me putting in a claim for sick. anyway when all this changeover to e.s.a. happened he was sent a questionairre, he returned it then months later got called for medical, he was given 0 points even tho before he scored over 30! its a joke it really is, they say he's fit for work well poor man is blind in 1 eye he scored 0 for this, can't hear properly 0 & has arthritis in his spine, legs0 & has other things wrong,0 they cut his money in half,oh yes they said they hadn't recieved his questionairre back! 2 months later when we went to c.a.b. it happened to turn up on a desk in dundee! bear in mind im not getting anything either so its been a nightmare, then i recieved a esa50 ?? to fill in which i sent off in december by recorded delivery, i called atos to ask if they had it,"oh no we don't" they said but as soon as i said id sent it recorded delivery they said " just a moment" they looked on the screen & funnily enough there it was!:0. im still waiting to see whats going on though, ive been waiting almost a year for a tribunal hearing for dla too.oh god look at me rambling on like an old hen lol. but it's just so annoying when we're innocent people who did not ask to be like this & not be able to work, take care :)xx

[Celticmoon in reply to bluebell10]

Thank you for your reply Bluebell. <3 Please don't worry about not remembering me... As I say I keep a fairly low profile so wouldn't expect to be instantly recognised.

I'm so sorry to learn of the stressful & uncertain times you are having to live through right now - each day must be a struggle. I don't have anything other than gentle cyber hugs & positive thoughts to offer but think you're amazing to stay so strong throughout this.

It's totally disgusting that you were told your form hadn't arrived... But then, after revealing you had paid for a recorded service it magically materialised!! This hardly encourages you to trust in what ATOS say & certainly makes me wonder why they feel the constant need (apparently) to try to deny or twist straight facts. Surely if they were trustworthy this just wouldn't be necessary? Every account I read where there has been any sort of deception draws a picture of a dishonest, unfair & corrupt system. I'm glad they're going but wonder if future assessments will have the transparency everyone needs. IF they did it would be so refreshing & I'd have so much more respect for a system that was fair & applied the same rules to all. At least then we would know where we all stand.

For your husband to score 0 points sounds totally wrong - they really should be made to support their findings in an open report, which CLEARLY & without jargon explains how they award points, or not...

To be made to feel like a criminal, or at least a second class citizen for claiming, is wrong... Personally I'd LOVE to go back to my old job, to be fit enough to work would be ace but the reality is that I (& many others) have to deal with all the nasty symptoms of this illness & the side effects of the meds that come with it!! Why would anyone CHOOSE to be like this?? If I could have one wish granted it would be to start LIVING again... I'm sure you feel the same.

Every good wish to you & your husband... I hope you get the support you so obviously deserve.

Wishing you well. xxx

[bluebell10 in reply to Celticmoon]

hi thanks for your reply. yes thats exactly how i feel..like a scrounger, as you say we would not choose to be like this & have all this pain.i would love to be able to go back to my job & i worked as long as i possibly could, perhaps too long as my pain etc started long before i had to give up work but i had no option as i could barely walk.as for atos i do not trust them at all now thank you im sure,i really hope that things get sorted out soon for everyone, wish you well too xx

[tramelia in reply to Celticmoon]

Hi Celticmoon. I too sent my application to Atos by recorded delivery and found out exactly what you have. On top of that, it got lost, after about 8 weeks of the Post office searching and Atos searching, they said it had obviously got lost somewhere and that I would need to re-send it, they also were insinuating that I had never sent it, but I did of course have my proof of sending it recording delivery. It just before I was going to send them another copy, that I got a phone call to say that they had found it. Please, I wonder if you could answer a question for me. You say that this was a claim for an ESA renewal, and that you sent it in January. My ESA is up at the end of the year and I will have to re-apply, which would be like yourself, a renewal. My question is, if you don't mind me asking, is that since you re-applied in January, do you still continue to get paid, or have they stopped the money. My best wishes are with you for a happy outcome to this, and I hope you hear soon.

Take care, Tracy

[Celticmoon in reply to tramelia]

Thank you for your lovely reply Tracy

I'm happy to be completely open and to answer any questions. Yes, I've continued to be paid... I have been claiming since my cancer in 2001 so was originally on incapacity benefit, transferring to ESA 18 months ago when I was first assessed for that by filling in the ESA50. I am currently in the support group so therefore not on the yearly rule of contribution based claimants so my benefit is set to continue should I be successful in maintaining my position in the support group. I do not know, however, if I lose that position and end up in the WRAG if I would continue to be paid at all or if, having had benefit for years, it would simply stop... That's what I mean about knowing where you are - you simply don't and I'm always afraid to ask as I don't ever like raising anything with them. Last time when I was assessed I was put into the WRAG but asked them to reconsider saying I was going to appeal. The decision maker then reconsidered and placed me into the support group but I didn't ever get the back payment from when they reduced my money... Again I didn't like to raise this with them as I'm so terrified of losing the benefit I do have. I'm sure that if you complain etc your name becomes "highlighted" and not in a good way!!!

I'm appalled at your story about the "loss" of your form... It certainly pays to use a recorded service in view of this even if you never get that signature I suppose. I wonder if an ordinary "proof of posting" would suffice...??? The onus is all on the claimant with apparently no responsibility to be shared by ATOS or DWP. It's fine for them to lose it but woe betide you if you are a day late with it!!!! I always take a copy of it before I send if off but cannot begin to imagine writing all that out again so soon - I've already decided that next time I'm doing the online version that I've seen mentioned on here.

Wishing you well. xx

[tramelia in reply to Celticmoon]

Hi again Celticmoon, Thank you so much for your kind reply. I was so sorry to read about your constant on going health problems. I am very grateful for you letting me know that your money has not stopped since re-applying for ESA. Like yourself, I was first on Incapacity Benefit, then applied for ESA, which as I told you they lost, then found.

Because apart from my Fibromyalgia I also have severe Depression and Anxiety, my husband has to deal with Atos and DWP, and like yourself, we will only contact either of them if we really have to. I sincerely hope that when you get your reply, it will be a good one and you will be left in the Support Group. One other question if you don't mind (sorry to be a pain), but I had heard rumours that now when they send you the ESA 50 to fill in, they only give you 4 weeks to fill it in instead of 5, do you know if this is correct?

Anyway, please take good care of yourself.

All the best Tracy x

[Celticmoon in reply to tramelia]

Hi there Tramelia...

Thank you for your kind wishes, all I can do is wait & hope. My GP & oncologist have been totally supportive, filling in the back page for me (p20 I think) so I'm hoping that counts for something.

As I said I'm very happy to try & help but am not aware of any rule changes about the length of time given to complete the form - I've always felt they don't give you enough time!!!! Perhaps ask the question in this forum as I'm sure others will have more information than I do, especially admin...

With every good wish

CM xxx

[Shazzzy]

Sorry celticmoon can only see first couple of lines.

[Celticmoon in reply to Shazzzy]

Oh dear - my inexperience at posting I'm afraid...

My post was asking if anyone had heard about the recent proposals to charge claimants for their tribunal cases. Evidently this may cost thousands but is, I feel, essentially an effective way of getting people (who genuinely deserve benefit) to drop their claim in the face of having to pay a huge legal bill if they lose their hearing. Evidently this is due to the vast increase of tribunals, which are costing many thousands of pounds. However, the blame (as I see it) is not the claimant's but the woefully inadequate claim processes in place at present, perhaps if the ESA50 form asked the right questions in the first place that may be a help...

xx

[Shazzzy]

That is a very scary thought celticmoon, I truly hope it does not happen, a lot of people will be left in a desperate state if it does.

[Celticmoon]

Thank you for your reply Shazzzy - it is a very alarming prospect and makes me wonder just what other plans are afoot to make our already difficult lives just that bit more so. xx

[TheAuthor]

Hi Celticmoon

I sincerely hope that you are feeling as well as you possibly can be today? I have not heard of anything of this nature being implemented, and I cannot see how it could possibly work? I have pasted you a link for the NHS Choices website ESA section and there is no mention of it on this:

nhs.uk/CarersDirect/moneyan...

I genuinely hope that you find the link useful.

Take care

Ken x

[Celticmoon in reply to TheAuthor]

Thank you very much for the information Ken, I'll read that with interest.

My husband tells me this proposal is in it's infancy... Therefore I don't think there has been much publicity around it. My concern is that IF this was ever implemented it would surely have the desired effect of targeting many ESA claimants, who by their very nature are not in a position to afford even a portion of the high legal costs just to simply be given a fair hearing...

While I share your feelings & also have doubts of it being a "workable" system I have had just enough dealings with the system to grow increasingly more wary of it. What I once would have believed impossible is now a fully accepted method of twisting facts to suit a particular outcome.

Many years ago (when I was a school leaver & saving to start training for nursing) I worked for the DWP... I initially worked in various sections of the Unemployment Benefit Office, taking claims etc, ending up in my last 2 years in the Fraud Team. Although this job was just a "filler" I felt at the time there was complete transparency & that all claims were fairly considered. In other words the rules were clear, concise & straightforward - words I feel cannot be applied to the claim process now...

I have another question about the claim process too but will post that separately so as not to confuse two issues.

Thanks again for your help. xx

[solowheelie]

I have heard of this suggestion too re ESA tribunals - i don't remember where though

[Celticmoon in reply to solowheelie]

Thanks for your reply Solowheelie - it's interesting to know someone else has seen this... I hope it soon proves an unworkable proposal & comes to nothing because the alternative is a very worrying prospect!

Wishing you well. xx

[Mdaisy]

Hello Celticmoon,

I think as you say it has been proposed which may or may not happen as nothing has been confirmed as yet. The Benefits & Work say it was leaked to the Guardian, links below;

benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/...

theguardian.com/politics/20...

I signed the Justice for All campaign last year against Legal Aid reform as many benefit claimants used this to get legal help including myself, however I never heard how it progressed.

Thank You for mentioning this to the community.

To All : I totally understand how people are feeling towards the Government however please remember we have guidelines about politics as we've had very heated discussions which have disrupted the community in the past

If you want to keep up to date, you can join the Benefits & Work newsletter for free

Hope this helps

Emma

FibroAction Administrator

[Celticmoon in reply to Mdaisy]

Thank you for this information Emma, it's very kind of you to share this.

I hope I haven't breached any guide lines...? I tried very hard to remain apolitical with this and hope that aim was achieved. In my original post, which went missing I made a point re this - I really don't know why it was wiped when I pressed the send button!!

I have joined the benefits and work newsletter thank you - it's a very useful resource.

Thanks again. CM.

[fenbadger in reply to Celticmoon]

Hi Celticmoon

I saw Emma's post and campaign too. Signed up to the newsletter some time ago. The tribunal thing has been in the air for some time. It's just a matter of time. I may be unkind thinking it's a way of stopping people standing up for their rights. All my assets went years ago and I'm on benefit with no prospect of doing a tribunal if I needed. It's part and parcel of legal aid attack which once were a lynch pin of British, culture. EVERYONE got justice, now it's only the rich again. Did I see something in the budget programs about it?

A general point. I only saw the top 2 lines, too, and regularly accidentally wipe a post before hitting "send". So yes, copy to a temporary word document is a good idea. I now also date and scan anything I send in the post. There is this silly propensity to deny the correspondence. Utilities are good at it too. I thin you're ok on guidelines. Emma is a better judge. You arte allowed to express opinion provided it's not malicious or offensive or uses offensive language. I see one of the purpose o HU sites is to be able to let off 2 kinds of steam, and if you need a cry on someone's shoulder or a rant you need the freedom to do so. The other kind of steam is the loopy games we sometimes play. I love the distraction and endorphins. There's no minimum requirement to appear on the board. That is an agenda you set. Gentle hugs xx

[spiro]

Just a thought, but often these bright ideas come from some right-wing think tank & never go any further. Hopefully this is just another of those.

[fenbadger in reply to spiro]

Sadly, I fear you're wrong.

[Mdaisy]

Hello CM,

Thank You for mentioning the online way to download ESA forms onto your computer to type answers in. I certainly used this method due to wrist pain. It crops up in the community every now and then, as it is so much easier.

To All: For those who need links there are depending on which form you need;

ESA: gov.uk/government/uploads/s...

ESA50:

google.co.uk/search?q=esa+o...

When using this method please remember when you print it before sending to sign & date the declaration by hand otherwise it cannot be processed.

CM, you haven't broken any guidelines as it is important to take about benefits, just a little reminder as I know how people are feeling. As you say how this may be another thing for people claiming to worry about, yet more pressure.

As you have also mentioned money spent on tribunals has increased apparently, well also mentioned if the first assessment was done correctly so many wouldn't be appealing! Hence the War on Welfare petition about the WCA should be replaced with a better system for people with Chronic illnesses & the Terminally ill.

Let's hope we hear no more about it!

Sending Best Wishes

Emma

FibroAction Administrator

[Celticmoon in reply to Mdaisy]

Thank you Emma.

I've saved the link for the online form... I have a feeling it will come in very handy.

Warm Wishes

CM xx

[tramelia]

Hi Celticmoon

Thank you so much for sharing your situation with me, I am truly grateful. Regarding time limit for filling in the form, I will take your advice and ask an administrator.

Thanks again and take very good care.

Very best wishes trammel x

[Celticmoon in reply to tramelia]

No problem.

Warmest Wishes xx