It's been a rough week and I feel rubbish since last Friday when we got our negative pregnancy results on our donor egg fresh transfer.
The fresh embryo transfer was done on 5th November. It was a good-quality grade 1 / day 5 embryo (but not PGT-A tested) and a medicated protocol was used. I am taking treatment for high NK cells, and Clexane 0.40ml to reduce the risk of blood clotting. I had intralipid one week befor the transfer. On the day of the transfer, the endometrial thickness was 9.1mm (tri-laminar) and progesterone was 58.
I'm 42 and I previously had three miscarriages (all conceived naturally), still no children. I had a hysteroscopy done in February this year as polyps were suspected on an ultrasound scan. Ultimately, the hysteroscopy did not find any polyps or fibroids and it showed a clear, normal uterine cavity.
Our donor is 29 and we have used ZyMot Fertile Chip to select the best sperm as my partner has sperm DNA fragmentation issues. Three good-quality blastocysts were created in this cycle using ICSI (two grade 1 embryos and one grade 2 embryo). We also used EmbryoGlue which obviously didn't help. One embryo was transferred on 5th November and now we are left with two frosties ( day 5 & day 6) and I'm not sure what we can do to increase our chances of success.
- What have you and your clinic done differently to achieve a successful pregnancy with a frozen embryo transfer?
- What protocol worked best for you?
- If you had vaginal microbiome looked into, what screening tests have you done (apart from EMMA/ALICE) and what treatment have you taken?
- How many transfers have you had until you achieved successful pregnancy with donor eggs?
I feel stuck and lost right now as I don't know how we can move forward from here and what can be done to achieve a better outcome. I understand this is a numbers game, but I can't stop thinking that there has to be a reason for every failure. I feel like we need to try something different or do more before we proceed with the frozen embryo transfer.
Any thoughts or advice would be much appreciated.
Many thanks
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Katiluna
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I know staying positive can be tough, but please try to keep your spirits up.
Have your doctors suggested any changes to your approach? Have you made any adjustments to your diet or routine?
I’ve had two rounds using our own embryos, both medicated. The first was a fresh transfer, not long after we had a hysteroscopy, which wasn’t successful. Now, we’re in the middle of a frozen transfer, and I’m 8 weeks pregnant.
I’m 45 and was really hoping for the best. Last year, a doctor we trusted deeply shattered my hope by saying I had too many fibroids and that my uterus was too old. It was devastating, and I felt completely lost afterward. We consulted numerous doctors and clinics in our journey.
One clinic in Greece suggested several preparatory steps, such as PRP, a rejuvenation process. Ultimately, though, it comes down to how much you’re willing to endure and, unfortunately, the financial costs involved.
For our second round, we added oestrogen and aspirin and increased progesterone, made small changes to my diet, and I started drinking more hot water with ginger and lemon. We also faced a family loss during that time, which added to my worries about the outcome.
I wish there were a single protocol that worked for everyone. This journey is challenging, but don’t lose hope.
Hello Pugs079, thank you for your reply and for sharing your experience. Huge congratulations on your current pregnancy I'm glad it's worked out for you after all you have been through. I'm sorry to hear of your family loss and on the negative experience you have had with one of your consultants It must be soul destroying to hear something like that! But now you deserve to enjoy every bit of this success and treasure it after all those struggles.
I normally follow a healthy Mediterranean diet rich in fruits and veg, healthy fatty acids etc even before we embarked on this journey. But after we started trying to conceive 5 years ago, I implemented even a healthier routine- 70% organic food, introducing fermented foods, I changed my skin care to less toxic ones, no use of plastics, I exercise regularly- yoga, jogging, walking in nature, deep breathing etc. I also tried fertility reflexology, accupuncture, massage and cupping for a while. I don't smoke and I don't drink. I've used some high quality supplements esp when we were trying to conceive naturally, but that didn't really make a difference.
I contacted my IVF clinic which is based abroad over a week ago soon after I got the negative pregnancy result. I asked them a series of questions and asked for recommendations, what we could do differently and how we could move forward. I still didn't get any response on any of those questions and still waiting for their recommendations. All I was told was that one of their doctors had been sick and that they had too many clients! From next Monday, I'll have to push them as I'm starting to run out of patience and we want to move forward ASAP.
My recurrent miscarriage clinic refuse to make any changes on their treatment that I take for high NK cells and they insist it should stay the same.
Can I ask what a rejuvenation process entails and whether you have used a PGT-A tested embryo in your last transfer? X
sorry for what you’re going through. It’s so disheartening, especially when you feel like you’ve tried everything. I have a few suggestions you could consider.
It took us 6 rounds of ivf to get our precious embryo but our transfer worked first time. We did everything we could to give it that chance. The main things I think helped that you haven’t mentioned:
- reflexology and fertility massage. It was hugely comforting going into transfer with them telling me my uterus was warm and ready and as good as can be. Also hot water bottle the evening before transfer. Not to be underestimated if you can find a really good reflexologist. This will balance your hormones too and get you in the best position. I also have endo and my fertility massage plus castor oil treatment cleared most of my endo cysts. I felt like I was clean and ready for transfer.
- I did do the Alice Emma and had been on probiotics for 6 months prior due to a previous microbiome test with no lactobacillus. I was advised to stop taking them when I started progesterone. No harm in taking quality pre and probiotics in the lead up anyway
- my clinic wanted progesterone over 100 so I would have thought yours was a tad low. I was on 3 cyclogest rectally, 2 lubion injections, plus 5 progynova for estrogen and 1 inhixa as a blood thinner. As well as buserlin and progynova the month before. Then they added two crinone as well as my progesterone was 80 something and they wanted it higher. They checked bloods before transfer, on transfer, plus a few days after. I kept up these meds until 12 weeks pregnant, then was weaned off till 14.
- the other thing that I think hugely helped us is we’d had a lot of therapy to get us out of the dark place that this journey creates. I really believe it made a huge difference for us. No stress. Nothing but happiness and gratitude. I would meditate every evening and talk to the embryo to tell it how welcome and loved it was. Not everyone believes this stuff but I know the mental does affect the physical so did everything I could so be in a good place. We also isolated from illness and Covid.
I think that’s everything. I also have slightly raised NK cells as well as thyroid antibodies but we refused the steroids and intralipids due to lack of evidence and fear of steroid side effects. This again is why I talked to my embryo and body to encourage it to accept the pregnancy.
Hope there’s something in there that can help! If you want a more in depth look find a fertility coach like Verity Paz. Affordable consultation and they can check if any tests have been missed that you can try.
Hello Lucy, thank you for taking the time to reply and for all your suggestions. CONGRATULATIONS on your success, I'm pleased you managed to achieve a successful pregnany- an achievement you should be immensely proud of
I like your holistic approach to this journey and admire your positive outlook to it. This year when I was trying to conceive naturally, I had a combination of fertility reflexology, massage, accupuncture and cupping for a few months at a good Chinese clinic. Three weeks into this therapy, I got pregnant naturally (for the 3rd time), so I believe it must have helped to some extent. I stopped those sessions after I miscarried in July due to chromosomal abnormalitities (Trisomy 14 & Trispomy 18). I may have a few sessions before my next transfer. We'll see if that will help. I will try that tip you have suggested with the hot water bottle the evening before the transfer!
I will start taking probiotics as soon as I get a response from my clinic on their recommendations and how to plan for the next transfer. Can I ask what pre and probiotics you were taking?
I had my progesterone checked at the IVF clinic once, and that was an hour before the embryo transfer. Just before the transfer, I was informed by the embryologist that my progesterone was 58. When I asked her if that was high enough, she said anything above 30 is good!! For that transfer, I was taking Utrogestan 800mg vaginally + Utrogestan 100mg orally every day). The transfer was done on the 6th day of progesterone. For the next transfer, I will ask them to increase the dose in order to reach at least 80 (maybe include progesterone injections or gel as well). I'll see what they recommend!
I used to do fertility meditation when I was trying to conceive naturally, working on positive thoughts, positive affirmations on the body, pregnancy etc. I think that contributed positively to my spiritual and mental health. But the 2nd miscarriage hit me so hard that I fell deep down into this dark hole to the point where I had to seek mental and psychological support. I think I should start practising those affirmations again and working on staying positive. XX
Thanks so much. It's not felt like a positive journey over the last 6 years but I'm in a much better place now. Like you, I would have good intentions on the affirmations etc but then major set backs and disappointments would throw me back into the dark again. Therapy was one of the best things we did as it completely changed and improved our mindset in the last year before our success, and we did in that time finally start to see some positive things happen. So I really think the mindset made a big difference. We used Norah Harding - she's specific to fertility which helped. She was so fantastic.
My reflexologist is also a fertility coach so she really understands the journey and talks to me about everything we can be doing as well. Which is so beneficial.
Pro and Probiotics - I was recommended the Bio.Me range. (Bio.Me Femme UT, and Bio.Me S. boulardii), and combined them with Bio.Me Prebio PHGG which is a powder you add to warm water (but I was advised to start this gradually as it can upset the stomach if you suddenly start taking a lot at once.) I worked with a fertility nutritionist who helped with general lifestyle factors and food to manage my endometriosis, as well as the supplements. It was quite extreme but we picked certain things to focus on rather than doing everything and having too much drastic change. Having breakfast was a big thing for me. I start my day with natural organic yogurt, with a tablespoon of ground flaxseed, I grind up organic Brazil nuts too, some raw cacao powder, blueberry powder, and honey. Such a good start to the day for my gut! it literally makes me poop every morning so I haven't had any pregnancy constipation which I know can be common. Finding little routines like that I think can help a lot. Plus making sure you're exercising a bit each day.
I have found that even when we feel like we've tried everything and we're at a loss, there can still be new things to try or stones left unturned. And we got there in the end after more than 6 years. If we knew what we know now and I'd seen my fertility coach at the beginning, the journey may not have been so long.
Best of luck to you for your future transfers! I know how hard it is to be optimistic. We were always hopeful but never expectant. It's such a difficult journey.
Many thanks for sharing all this information on diet, therapy and probiotics. I totally agree that the mindset and positivity have an impact on fertility and the body as a whole. I'm pleased your therapist Norah Harding and your fertility coach managed to get you through those tough times and provided you with the right tools that led to success. Your diet sounds really healthy, rich and well-balanced! I'm sure this journey hadn't been easy for you and that you had been through tough dark times. I'm glad that you finally got your happy ending. Enjoy every bit of it XX
JellyPenguin I’m reading through this thread and your comment has caught my eye as I also had next to no lactobacillus in my ScreenMe vaginal microbiome, not sure what test you had and if was with a similar company? I can see what you took probiotic wise, did you just follow the label instructions for everything? And did you ever retest to see if thyroid levels had come up.
Would also love to here which fertility nutritionist you saw as am look into this I has endo lap excision in April and have like diffuse adeno. I’m currently on an AIP diet (basically an extreme anti-inflammatory diet) and it improves my symptoms a lot.
Hi! Glad to hear you’re on an anti inflammatory diet. There are foods to help with the bacteria as well like cutting down on sugar and eating lots of garlic. I would roast an entire garlic whole, and have it with bread, oil and balsamic. As well as lots of natural organic yogurt. I just took the Your Daye test around January I think it was because I was getting a bit of recurring itchiness so I had a feeling something was off.
I used Anna Firth for nutrition who is linked to Melanie Brown. She advised on the probiotics. I think I just followed the pack instructions yes. I didn’t redo the same microbiome test because I eventually noticed the itching stopped coming back and I had the ALICE EMMA test I think around April or May, which showed my levels were on the lower end but not a major concern. So I knew what I had been doing was be working and kept doing it another couple of months until transfer. It does all take a long time to build back up. It’s not an overnight fix.
Hope that’s helpful!
You’ve also asked about thyroid. Did you mean thyroid? I have that checked every month or two and they prescribe my levothyroxine depending on those results. It’s stayed stable until I was pregnant actually when it started going up so they upped the dose. Although we’ve had some issues with our clinic they have been really good at monitoring everything like this.
Oh so sorry that’s a typo, it should say ‘did you ever retest to see if YOUR levels had come up.’ As in did you repeat the microbiome testing to check if your lactobacillus level had come up? Was the the Alice/emma you did?
Well the ALICE EMMA was about 4 or 5 months after I started probiotics following my microbiome that showed zero lactobacillus, and the ALICE EMMA test showed I still needed to make improvements but they weren't massively concerned. So that was enough for me to know that things had improved already and if I keep it up it would be even better by transfer a couple of months after. I probably would've repeated the same microbiome test otherwise. I also found my symptoms had improved too so I didn't feel the need to check again. x
Ok super, and that was with taking the Bio.Me Femme UT, the Bio.Me S. boulardii), and combined them with Bio.Me Prebio PHGG? I’ve looked these up and the first is a live bacteria for the urinary tract, the second is a yeast to help rebalance the microbiome, and the last is a prebiotic fibre. And you didn’t take any other lactobacillus (oral or vaginal)?
I hope you don’t mind my questions, I got really poor support from the acupuncturist who recommended my ScreenMe profile, she didn’t know at all what to suggest. I ended up contacting the owner of the company and managed to speak to her. The only thing she recommended was the Bio.Me Femme V…
I had a predominance of Bifidobacterium breve, looking online it says some women do just have this type. I’m still uncertain if I should actually getting just improve my Lactobacillus level
I Don’t mind the questions at all! The support for us is severely lacking! I was taking a Caneston product as well early on for a couple of weeks at a time called Canesflor but sadly they’ve discontinued it, which was crazy as it was such a good product and there isn’t a good alternative. But other company’s do similar vaginal gels you could look into. I don’t think I took anything else but diet helped as well. Natural yogurt every morning. Lots of roasted garlic. And sourdough bread. And less sugar as that helps the bad bacteria feed and thrive.
Hello Honey328, thank you for your response and for your recommendation. I will mention the endometrial scratch to the clinic and discuss it with the doctor. I'll see what they have to say about it. Having a PGT-A embryo definitely adds a lot of reassurance. Embryo quality is the most important factor in achieving a successful pregnancy. We didn't test as we only got three 5 day embryos on this cycle. Most clinics will say embryos with donor eggs are less likely to be chromosomally abnormal. But I would say some of them may have those issues, esp if your donor is not in their early twenties. Unfortunately the risk of chromosomal abnormalities increases with age and I wish my clinic had chosen a younger donor in their early 20s. XX
I had vitamin d and B12 injections every month in the run up to transfer. My little girl is 12 days old. Did the Alice, Emma, tests plus the ERA and was on steroids and blood thinners. We use prontogest for progesterone (my preference). I ate relatively well. Gentle exercise of that but I kept my mind very very busy with humanitarian efforts (outside of work) I have done all of the above on previous cycles which failed- the only difference this time I was busy with my personal projects. Test day came around rather quickly… and she was here before I knew it! Best of luck Ps: all my embryos were screened and tested. Helps in the long run..
Hello leo 1980, CONGRATULATIONS on the birth of your little girl I'm glad it worked out for you. Thank you for your suggestions and for sharing your experience. It's great that this helped you achieve a positive outcome! If you don't mind me asking, the prontogest you were taking, was that injections?
Yes - it’s the progesterone in oil shots that is administered intramuscularly ie just above your bum cheek. It’s a bit painful and a tad more expensive. My levels are generally low so it was either 1 prontogest daily or 2 lubion daily - I opted for the prontogest.
My husband if he is home or one of the other vets if I am at work! I did try myself but I made such a mess, blood was pouring into my trainers! And I don’t think any of the medication went in!
When hubby and I do it - we make an event. I have a hot water bottle on my bum. Candles lit…it’s usually before bedtime.. so I can sleep straight after if I needed too. I have seen you tube videos of woman doing it themselves so it is possible.
Ah waw, quite an event 😀It may be a bit challenging for someone to administer it themselves! At least you got your husband or a collegue who help you with that. It takes some pressure off xx
I had a procedure where by the doctors isolated the platlets from lots of blood they took from me. A week later the platlets were injected into my endometrial lining to thicken it before the transfer. I also had acupuncture before and after transfer.
We used donor eggs. I had a hysteroscopy too. I was also out on injections to up my progesterone after transfer as it plummeted.
I had a miscarriage 3 years previous and my egg quality and amount was poor.
This was our first transfer… our baby girl is nearly 6 months old now! I believe the procedures and drugs helped us get success first time xx
Hello Goldy23, thank you for your response and huge congratulations on the birth of your little girl That's amazing! Can I ask how old your donor was and whether you had the embryo PGT-A tested? XX
Hello Beclp, thanks very much for your reply and for sharing your experience. I'll check out that probiotic you mentioned. I'm pleased it helped you achieve a positive outcome after a long tough journey. That's quite an achievement if the egg was taken out at 43.5 Well done you 💪XX
I recently had a medicated FET the day before transfer they tested my progesterone level it was 59 so they told me to take an extra shot of lubion a day. If your progesterone level is below 100 then they increase your progesterone medication. This is a trial that they started doing a few months ago and so far they are getting more positive results than before. It does make me wonder as I had a medicated FET earlier in the year with them which resulted in a miscarriage at 7 weeks they didn't test my progesterone then and was on a lower dose.
Hello StarsAllAround, congratulations on your current pregnancy and thank you for your reply x. I did think my progesterone levels were on the low side. I was prescribed 800 mg vaginal Utrogestan and 100 mg oral Utrogestan. On the day of the transfer, progesterone level was 58 nmol/L and the clinic said anything above 30 is good. On the 10th day post trasfer, I retested the progesterone level and it went down to 34 nmol/L. At that point, I was still taking my progesterone doses. For the next transfer (natural FET), I asked the clinic to prescribe Cyclogest and Lubion injections as vaginal Utrogestan has caused itching and irritation which still hasn't gone away. I'm waiting for their response on that.
May I ask what doses of progesterone you have been taking on your current pregnancy with a medicated FET?
I'm currently on 400mg cyclogest vaginally evey 8 hours (so 3 times a day) and Lubion 25mg every 12 hours (so twice a day). Your body will only absorb the progesterone you need any excess is secreted in urine so it's impossible to overdose on it. Push for them to give you extra. When I look back at all my failed transfers I was always on a much lower dose of progesterone and my levels were never checked so now I do wonder if that was the reason for them failing 🤔 I am also taking prognova and clexane but I've taken these on other cycles.
That's a good amount of progesterone! Next time, I'll definitely take more, and I will push the clinic to prescribe Lubion injections as well. At least if the next transfer failed, I wouldn't blame it on the progesterone levels... Yes, progesterone may have played a role in the failure of your previous transfer. I would question that too as you had success with the last transfer for which you're taking loads of progesterone! Wishing you a healthy and smooth pregnancy.
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I'm glad it's worked out for you after all you have been through. I'm sorry to hear of your family loss and on the negative experience you have had with one of your consultants 
It must be soul destroying to hear something like that! But now you deserve to enjoy every bit of this success and treasure it after all those struggles.
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