Work Capability Hearing - why won't they understand this is endo??

[luthien]

Ahh, OMG just received a letter from work to attend a Capability Hearing

It's because I've had five instances totalling 10 days over the past four months self certified. So annoying. HR haven't even logged them correctly;

5 days for a bacterial chest infection (last week) - had doc apt and antibiotics - logged as a cold

1 day early December for recovery from lap - I was signed off for 2 weeks but needed an extra day - logged as headache

1 day late December for endo period pains - logged as cold

1 day Jan for endo period pains - logged as gynae

2 days Feb for endo period pains - logged as headache

I'm so annoyed. Occupational Health even sent them a letter to say that I may be able to manage with normal pain relief but there may be instances where I will need to be off work. The letter for the hearing says they've attached the following to take into consideration; well that's just my sick days. They haven't used the OH letter.

My manager hasn't even talked to me about it.

What can I do?

I have made a note myself of my periods and when I was off, can I take that in? Should I also challenge what they've logged my days as? Should I take in my copy of the OH letter? I'm on antibiotics for my chest infection so it's clearly not a cold (that's viral) - should I take that in too? Can I ask as a compromise about working from home? Other people do it in our team.

Would it be worth having a discussion with my specialist / GP? As I'm worried work won't care about appointments or endo, unless they have proof. I'm worried that they'll put me on 6 months of no sick leave, well I can't do that; I'm due for a second lap (work knows) and I get endo symptoms during my period.

[Starry]

So sorry you are going through all this stress xx

Perhaps work are angling as you say if they know further surgery is due. Yes all your ideas sound like good ones to me, especially a formal letter from specialists or gp about the severity of your endo and how long you've had it (think equality act disability discrimination criteria) and do get the record of your sickness causes accurately documented particularly where its endo related xx

Try to step back and think of it as a HR process. Requesting 'reasonable adjustments' sounds like it may be worthwhile you should have a good case if it's established practice in the team.

Aside from a phased return I negotiated to reduce my hours to have Wednesday off as a mid week recovery day and I work from home on a Friday most weeks. It is working well and I doubt I'd have been able to return to work were that not made possible.

Big big hugs. Some employers are just rubbish at this stuff and others just hard-nosed.

Just a thought if your immune system is low have you tried Culturelle pro Biotic? It's meant to be specifically an immune system boosting strain and has been medically researched thoroughly. I genuinely think it has helped me after my post surgery complications so may be something to try?

Xx

[luthien in reply to Starry]

Thanks sooo much for your reply!

Glad to know it's not just me that gets annoyed with processes. I'll probably have to book an appointment with my specialist to look at a formal letter; I won't have time to ask him to get that sorted. I could try. I'm not sure whether to wait for the results of the hearing? Usually by then they won't consider extra evidence so perhaps I should have that sorted asap to present at the hearing.

It's on behalf of my manager from HR and my manager hasn't even spoke to me about recovery after my lap, or how it's going or how I am after my recent chest infection

I shall have a look at Culturelle pro biotics, never thought of it before, thanks

[Mswa in reply to Starry]

Wanted to add also that I had a lap sept and have had lots infections and illnesses since, think it takes our bodies a while to recover.

Probiotics, antioxidants and a good multi vitamin xx

[Netti451]

Hi. I work in HR in the steel industry who defo dont understand endo! However lots of big burley men take time off for the smallest thing and its my job to make sure their absence is managed.

Take with you a copy of all sick papers submitted and all occ health reports.

Also take with you any gp and/or consultant letters.

All of these absences are for the same ongoing condition.

Ask why they havent been logged accurately. Tell them their failure to di so is causing you distress.

Dependant on the severity of your symptoms it may count as a disability if it has a "prologues effect on your ability to perform day to day tasks" under the equality act employers need to make reasonable adjustments for people who a tribunal judge may consider to be disabled under the act.

This should include adjusting disciplinary policies around sickness to take into account linked events due to same condition.

They can still give formal warnings but should allow for more instances than your average joe.

I.e. if your policy is 2 periods of absence in 6 months then you would expect the grace of 3 or 4 periods before a warning is issued.

You can ask for flex around working from home if you are well enough to actually work properly and not so sick you cant achieve anything- this will be their concern. Occ health should be able to include a recommendation in their report.

Get a copy of your absence policy and sick pay entitlements - make sure you know your rights and comply with obligations on you as employee. Make sure they comply with theirs.

Do you have a trade union rep or colleague who can accompany you?

Join union if you have one.

You need to make your employer understand the severity of your condition.

Hope this helps.

[luthien in reply to Netti451]

Hi thanks for your reply. It's good to have someone from HR mention what's needed.

I have my Occupational Health letter, it doesn't state work from home but I think when it was written the main consideration was that my endo is taken into account. I have asked my specialist via his secretary to summarise my issues, lap, diagnosis, outcome and future treatment, hopefully they'll come back with something.

I definitely want to challenge it being logged incorrectly - that won't help them see a pattern so it needs to be sorted.

I am part of the Union and have a rep here, whom I've kept up to date with on-goings; she will be attending.

We shall see how it all goes

[AmyMillie]

Hi farahziya

Sorry you’re having so many problems with your insensitive employer.

I have my first lap coming up soon and I’m conerned that my employer is also going to be difficult. Obviously I’ll get a sick note to sign me off after surgery, but my concern is what I’ll do if I have ongoing problems even after my lap. My boyfriend, family, friends and employer all seem to think that it will “cure” me and I won’t have any problems again 🙈

Sorry if this is a really stupid question, but how did you get your occupational health letter? Who would I request this from? It sounds much better than a standard sick note!

Good luck with the hearing xx

[luthien in reply to AmyMillie]

Hey glad to know it's not just me that worries!!

Yeah I hate that people think it's a cure; it's so annoying. I've printed off the Endometriosis in the Workplace Leaflet found under endometriosis-uk.org/public... I've given it to my manager but I will take it into my hearing to make a point that in there it says it is an ongoing condition.

Occupational Health: I talked to my manager and said I'd like a consultation with OH and they speak to HR who organises a call back. It's annoying because there's no way you can do it through work yourself. You can go independent but it's best to use the one work has linked to them because they'll understand work procedures and processes. You get all call to chat generally and book an actual call where a Doctor / Consultant will go through all your symptoms / time off / considerations etc and write a final report from a medical basis - usually a 30 min call - work should allow that so book a meeting room. You can opt to see the report before it gets sent to your workplace (I said I'd like to see it at the same time), you get via a secure email. I've found it useful and I'll bring it up in my hearing as it states I "may need time off work when symptoms are bad".

No questions are stupid!!

[AmyMillie in reply to luthien]

Thanks so much!

Good luck with everything xx

[Mswa]

As a manager, for anyone that meets the threshold in our policy which is not dissimilar to yours, we need to instigate a stage 1 sickness absence meeting with HR and may have referred to OH already by this point.

The purpose of this meeting is often misunderstood, to an employee it feels like a negative process, to me as a manager it is about understanding why the individual has been unwell and identifying what support or reasonable adjustments (is applicable) are required to support them to be able to work. However I am mindful that this is my perception only and this will differ across companies.

Having endo myself and experiencing increased sickness absence post lap I instigated this process myself to get the support I needed.

Make sure you let them know what helps you to manage your condition.

Depending on the severity your diagnosis may fit the DDA in which case you can request reasonable adjustments, however they don’t have to agree them.

I would absolutely correct the sickness record, as you want it to be accurate.

I am assuming endo does not impact on your capability to undertake your role but it does impact at times on your ability to remain in work. You could ask for flexible working - if each month there are 1-2 days you know you will need to be off due to endo, you could request you make these up over the calendar month or ?? Or wfh if you are able to effectively work on these days (they would want to know though why you can’t go into work but can work from home) or reduce your hours to allow for two days off a month and average it out?

Let us know how you get on, when is it?

[luthien in reply to Mswa]

Thanks, it's good to hear from a manager

I'm concerned because my manager that's at the meeting hasn't actually been in herself (long term sick) during the time I went for my lap and the subsequent months of recovery; a catch up was held when I came back after my lap with another manager, he was really helpful and supportive. But since my normal manager has been back nothing has been said, even though I've been really open about how I'm feeling, how the condition affects me she's not had a catch up to find out how things are or what they can do to help - then this letter comes through, she's still not talking to me, even about the fact that the meeting is in place.

Flexible working; good idea, ours is meant to be just that so I can ask. I'll add that to the idea of working from home if my symptoms aren't too bad. Regarding the working from home rather than coming into work on my manageable days; it's accidents and being comfortable, I can sit at my desk at home, have my feet up, have a hot water bottle, and can go to the bathroom every 30 mins to change as it get's really heavy, I also take the bus in and walk so on those days I get really dizzy - I've fainted at the bus stop and then came into work - manager didn't even bat an eyelid at that even though I'd been taken to A&E and advised to rest at home - she said I look fine.

I think I'll be fine, I'm just worried, but they've done lots of things incorrect; not recognised I have a condition, not recognised it is long term, not taken the endometriosis guide advice on varying symptoms from person to person and may require time off / additional support, not taken the OH advice into consideration, recorded my sick days incorrectly, not had regular catch-ups to see what can be done / how the company can help. There are others in our team that have conditions that do work from home and that have regular meetings, perhaps mine was overlooked as my manager has been off with her own issues during the time I've had difficulties.

It's on Monday, woke up with a headache this morning so I think I was worrying about it while I slept

[Mswa in reply to luthien]

I know it’s hard but try not to worry, I always tell people that they can bring someone to accompany them if they wish, so this may be a helpful option to you?

If it’s with HR they should advise your manager of what is required, see this as your opportunity to correct their assumptions and to work out a way forward for both parties.

Let us know how you get on and best of luck xxx

[luthien in reply to Mswa]

Just had my hearing, OMG that was stressful and I got upset and cried

I mentioned that my sick days hadn't been recorded properly, they'll fix that. I should in the future call in HR, and then email / text my manager so she knows the reason I'm off and check they are recording it correctly. Well that's a start

Working from home or flexible working or working up the hours; they can't see how that can be done considering I'd be ill, I stated that it's the travelling in and back home that will cause the most problem and the fact that I can't get comfortable at work etc, even that I know my cycles and it's like 1 day a month, so I can plan my workload accordingly. I'm hoping they don't do another no sick days for 6 months because that'll aggravate things even more resulting in sick days, plus I can't guarantee that. The last 6 month one resulted in surgery for excision of endo.

They seem to think it'll all be manageable after ops and I will be back in as normal. Which clearly isn't the case.

On the upside they have said they fully support my position within the team and have no issues with my workload / objectives. So that's good. Hopefully that means they'll want to keep me.

Just go to wait for the results from the hearing

[Mswa in reply to luthien]

Sorry for late reply, sounds like a mixed bag but sounds like HR have some understanding and positive that they are pleased with your work/performance.

[Lyn84]

I had to have a meeting with my manager in november for the same reason i had previously had to give letters of the drs and prove my admission to hospital as before my diagnosis i was pretty much accused of it being all in my head until i had my diagnosis in febuary my work can deal with it if my time off is plan in advance for my lap wasnt an issue they just cant cope with any unexpected time off my manager actually said to me since i spoke to you and one of the other girls in november about being off sick so much neither of you have been off sick i thought what planet are you on if you think that we just havnt needed to be off sick unexpectidly

[luthien in reply to Lyn84]

aww noo

glad it's not just me though.