Finally got a FULL 'Liver panel' done - and these are the results ....

[GavBelfast]

Blood samples taken on 29 September 2015 and at last includes an ALT value which shows an AST/ALT ratio of less then 0.5, which I guess I should he happy about. Not sure about the Albumin/Globulin ratio which I've seen other people mention - I don't really get it.

Anyway, the results are:

BILIRUBIN: 4 umol/L (normal range: 0 - 20)

ALK PHOS: 88 IU/L (40 - 129)

AST: 21 IU/L (0 - 37)

ALT: 43 IU/L (10 - 50)

CK: 66 IU/L (38 - 204)

GAMMA GT: 44 IU/L (10 - 71)

SODIUM: 143 mmol/L (135 - 145)

POTASSIUM: 5.4 mmol/L (3.5 - 5.1) *HIGH*

CHLORIDE: 98 mmol/L (98 - 107)

BICARBONATE: 16 mmol/l (22 - 29) *LOW*

UREA: 4.3 mmol/L (1.7 - 8.3)

CREATININE: 82 umol/L (66 - 112)

TOTAL PROTEIN: 73 g/L (63 - 83)

ALBUMIN: 49 g/L (34 - 50)

GLOBULIN: 24 g/L (19 - 35)

CALCIUM: 2.49 mmol/L (2.20 - 2.60)

Corrected Calcium: 2.43 mmol/L (2.20 - 2.60)

PHOSPHATE: 0.84 mmol/L (0.87 - 1.45) *LOW*

URIC ACID (Gout): 237 umol/L (266 - 474) *LOW*

RANDOM BLOOD GLUCOSE: 5.7 mmol/L (3.5 - 7.9)

FASTING BLOOD GLUCOSE: 5.7 mmol/L (3.5 – 5.8)

IRON: 19.8 umol/L (10.6 - 28.3)

T.I.B.C: 69 umol/L (41 - 77)

TRANSFERRIN SAT: 29 % (20 - 55)

TRIGLYCERIDES: 2.1 mmol/L (< 2.3)

CHOLESTEROL: 4.8 mmol/L (Optimum <5.0)

----

COMMENTS (from the lab) – Biochemistry Profile:

"A good Biochemistry Profile.

All of your results were within the normal range apart from the potassium, bicarbonate and phosphate levels. These are of no clinical significance.

The kidney and liver function is regarded as normal as are the markers for bone and muscle disease.

The calcium essential for bone strength were within the range as were the gout and diabetes results.

The triglycerides are normal. The cholesterol appears to be well controlled with statins."

What do regular (expert posters!) think? Are these the results of someone whose liver, kidney, spleen, etc, and health in general are under pressure - despite a fatty liver diagnosis three weeks ago?

With my thyroid and prolactin tests normal, I still can't account for the somewhat thinning hair on my head, face and parts of my body, nor for the apparent 'breast' enlargement, as I'm not fat, nor the oily skin, nor the various pains and aches, but my appetite has improved and I'm eating normally again.

Also, if my liver is merely fatty, how do I know that the fat s reducing or when it's gone?

Just STILL worried!

Cheers,

Gavin

[Bolly]

You already have the answer to your question from a medically trained professional who looked at the result and told you they are "good" and "normal". Have you not read those comments?

How could we, non medical non experts disagree with that!

Is there some subconscious reason why you want to be given a medical diagnosis that agrees with your "instincts" that you are sick rather than be reassured by and believe the actual scientific results that you are in fact well.

There have been one or two other over anxious people on here in the past who have been the same, convinced they are sick and the doctors have missed something when there had been no clinical evidence of anything abnormal.

So, dear still worried Gavin. Would it be fair to assume that, through life, you have always been "worried" about something, and at the moment this is what you are choosing to worry about.

[GavBelfast in reply to Bolly]

When I first took ill in August, I started to worry about my liver.

Then I got sicker at the end of August, strange visible symptoms appeared overnight, and i feared the worst.

Then I got an ultrasound, against my doctor's advice of the need for t, and it showed fatty liver. The radiologist couldn't rule-out worse.

So, I've been gradually completing a journey here - a lot of it out of my own pocket. Some blood tests related to the liver, taken by my doctor last Wednesday, are not back yet.

Numerous posters over the weeks, months and indeed years have aired their fears here to seek reassurance, solace or just empathy from others who know more, or who are just in or have been in the "same boat", so I make no apology for doing the same and posting updates.

Cheers,

Gavin.

[MisterX in reply to GavBelfast]

That's actually a little unkind Gavin and probably not really worthy of you. Through all of your posts although you've been unduly anxious given the complete lack of evidence you've normally managed to retain a sense of perspective that it might be you rather than a liver problem. With good reason.

For one thing Bolly is making a perfectly reasonable point given that the ALL the evidence from the beginning has overwhelmingly been that you don't have a liver problem so whether you like it or not you do come across as someone desperate to find a problem when there isn't one.

Secondly she would have been one of the people reading every single post you've written and thinking how she could assist. The only reason you've seen fewer posts from her is because I covered most of the material in my replies and one of the reasons (good or bad) that I make an effort to reply is because reading her posts and replies was tremendously helpful to me when I first started here.

It sounds like you think that by going off and getting the ultrasound you've somehow scored one over your GP - for whom you appear to have very little trust.

When you got the ultrasound your doctor had already ruled out worse. As far as I can tell you're the only one to whom the fact that you had a fatty liver is a surprise. It was completely predictable, didn't need an ultrasound to confirm it nor to guide treatment of it - which is to do what you'd already been advised to do. So knowing it was there hasn't actually helped has it? It's made literally no difference to any advice you've received. So you can decide if you spent your money well. It certainly didn't reassure you and it made no difference to diagnosis or treatment.

Today's results are absolutely normal. You can post normal results until the cows come home - or all the dead horses come back to life - but on what planet is anyone here going to say that normal results mean anything other than normal liver function?

Anyway obviously and yet again (how many times is this now?) I'm very pleased your results are normal. I wasn't intending to post given that as I said before I'm not adding anything other than to repeat what I've said many times before, but you've always come across as a perfectly pleasant person with a reasonable sense of humour. With that in mind and on reflection I'm sure you'll agree that your posts overwhelmingly support the twin conclusions that you....

i) Are given to anxiousness.

ii) Don't have a liver problem,

Anyway I think that's it for me, top game by Japan - who have been really fun to watch. Have a good day. Keep your chin up.

I still recommend Netflix by the way. You need a more worthwhile hobby than trying to conjure up cirrhosis from normal liver function results.

Cheers.

PS - No more drinking.

[GavBelfast in reply to MisterX]

Thank you, Mister X, and hello again.

I have not sought to hide any of my serious anxiety issues, even posting the medication I am taking and as background to my liver concerns.

I must admit that I found Bolly's post in response to these test results more than a little patronizing, and that's probably why I posted the response that I did.

I don't feel that I "got one over on my GP", a GP with whom I have a very good doctor-patient relationship, merely that getting the ultrasound done privately, at my own expense, was vindicated when the GP could easily have referred me for one himself, which would also have been better because a doctor would have directly reviewed the results.

The GP concerned HAS taken my concerns more seriously since, which is why I had all of those vials of blood taken last week. I do know that one of them was for Hepatitis.

I'll report the outcome of those here when I get them.

In the meantime, I'm feeling a bit better, eating better and have put-on a few pounds of weight again, so making progress I'd say - and without alcohol.

Take care, Mister X.

Gavin.

[MisterX in reply to GavBelfast]

For what clinical purpose should your doctor have ordered an ultrasound?

[GavBelfast in reply to MisterX]

Because several liver function tests had been 'off' for several months, because I had been honest about my heavy drinking over the summer, because I was feeling ill, losing weight, and displaying other signs and symptoms.

I've read far and wide on this and other forums about liver health and plenty of people in similar situations have been referred for ultrasounds or even to see specialists.

Anyway, it's all in the past now.

[MisterX in reply to GavBelfast]

That's not a clinical purpose.

Person sees doctor with a slight bump in blood tests following admitted heavy drinking the correct thing to do is to advise stop drinking and re-test blood after a few weeks.

IF No drinking ---> Normal results then there is only one logical conclusion (hint - it's not that there is suddenly so much damage that normal liver enzymes indicate dysfunction :))

Getting an ultrasound and discovering fatty liver in those circumstances is as pointless as getting brain scans and referring to a neurologist to investigate any headaches you might have had the morning after every drinking binge.

So vindicated in the sense that it made no difference to diagnosis, no difference to what you needed to do. No difference at all really. Not sure how that works.

Anyway, still not helping - nothing I've had to say has changed for well over a month so I'll stop there.

Have a good weekend.

Cheers.

[GavBelfast in reply to MisterX]

There was NO mention of "fatty liver" until I'd had the ultrasound! So, I'd say that was diagnostic.

Please don't think that I haven't learnt from you or taken notice of what you've been saying over the past few weeks - I have. But, when hyper-anxious, it's often hard to see the wood for the trees.

Enjoy your weekend, including the rugby - if you can. that is!

Cheers,

Gavin.

[MisterX in reply to GavBelfast]

Except your doctor already knew you might have fat infiltration of the liver and the ultrasound would make no difference to the course of action to be followed. It's a bit like showing someone a floorpan of their own house.

I'm replying not because I wish to argue the point with you but for the benefit of anyone else who reads this thread....

Drinking too much alcohol causes fat infiltration of the liver. It is a given (as it is when people consume an unhealthy diet have too little exercise).

Where alcohol is suspected the correct thing for a doctor to do is to retest blood a few weeks later after a period of abstinence to ensure liver function is unimpaired.

Since the fatty infiltration will reverse in the absence of alcohol and with the adoption of a healthier lifestyle there is no reason whatsoever for a doctor to order an ultrasound merely to confirm that someone drinking too much has some fat infiltration of the liver. It is as pointless as performing a brain scan for every person who has a headache after a night of heavy drinking. It comes with the territory. Should results not improve then the doctor would either suspect that the patient is still drinking or that there is another cause - in which case an ultrasound may be entirely appropriate.

If the cause of the problem is alcohol then ending the excessive consumption of alcohol will end the problem.

Anyway, there it is.

And Australia won. What sort of a world is this?

Cheers.

[MisterX in reply to MisterX]

PS - In relation to Bolly's post above...

You do realise that (to summarise this thread) you're asking......

"Do these perfectly normal blood test results indicate someone whose liver, kidney, spleen, etc, and health in general are under pressure"

You might want to reread her post in light of that - I think sh'e being friendly is trying to cajole you into thinking about it. She's a woman so she can't be patronising......

Matronising perhaps but then who doesn't like that

Cheers.

Australia. I'm still upset. Still on the plus side I might be turning Japanese.

[GavBelfast in reply to MisterX]

If it's any consolation, I generally think international sports tournaments are the poorer for the hosts going-out early, especially with a "dead-rubber" to play before they finally exit.

That said, it is nice to see the smile wiped-off the arrogant Sir Clive Woodward's face - though I do recall wanting them to win in 2003 as Australia are insufferable in victory, too!

You could always adopt Ireland - they're in with the best chance they've ever had, though I fear they will come-up just short.

Japan it is, then!

Gavin.

[GavBelfast in reply to MisterX]

I tried to reply in this regard a bit earlier so hopefully will have better luck this time.

You know much much more about the liver, liver disease and all things liver-related than I ever will.

Now, I am a grown-up and supposedly quite intelligent but, until two months ago, I never thought of my liver being harmed by the amount of alcohol I was regularly putting-away, and I had honestly never heard of the term "fatty liver" or knew that fat could infiltrate the liver due to excessive alcohol intake or other causes.

When I saw different doctors in August and early September, none of them mentioned it. Nor did the doctor in the hospital when I was there for a few days.

It was only when I came here and to another forum that I heard the term, and started to think about it and investigate, and, feeling unwell, arranged the ultrasound.

Only when I showed my regular GP the brief report from the radiologist did the term "fatty liver" start to enter our discourse, and has done in our subsequent consultations.

The GP was also more proactive last week after he had read a report that a doctor in the hospital had written when I went there for a check-up - he's the doctor who oddly spoke of a "touch of hepatitis" - and ordered several blood tests - the nurse took six vials of blood from me last Wednesday. The GP said he expected the tests to be negative, but wanted to rule everything liver-related out.

Nite-nite!

Gavin.

[ballie52]

Gav looking through these results tell you exactly as the report says a healthy liver with some fat...this is all good news ...start to work on a healthy diet and if you have gained a wee bit of weight then try and get it off..I'm sure if you try a change of diet with exercise then even the fatty liver will also improve...no need to worry it a looks good..I'm no expert but these results look good to me! XX

[CaptM]

Let me just say one thing looking at those results. I wish they were mine. !!! They look perfectly normal. So many people have fatty liver these days due to poor diet and too much drink. Your ggt, alt and ast are all great. I'd now just forget about any liver issues. You're fine looking at the results. Now go enjoy your day and don't worry.

I just had my gallbladder out and blood tests wed evening to see where I'm at now. All my results were good except ggt was 159 at last check. Let's see if gallbladder removal has helped.

Regards

[GavBelfast in reply to CaptM]

Thanks Captm,

One of my problems that I think the poster called Bolly identified about me early on is that I have health anxiety, and it tends to be hard to out back into the box when it has got out. With this, it has got very real, especially as anxiety was eventually contributing to the heavy drinking.

I haven't shown these results to my doctor, as I had them done privately, but he had already looked at full blood count, liver function test and clotting test and said they were not the results of someone with sort of serious liver disease.

It's just that neither her nor I, nor any other doctor I spoke to since the summer, had ever mentioned "fatty liver" or fat on the liver until I got the ultrasound on 10 September that showed it. It was in places like this forum that I read about it and educated myself about it.

Now that I haven't been drinking, and been eating well and normally, and trying to get some exercise, I'm keen to know that the fatty liver is going away. I asked the doctor about this, and he said that it going away could be shown in blood tests, but I suspect I will want to arrange another ultrasound in a month or two to actually see that it is going away or has gone away.

Cheers,

Gavin.

[Bolly in reply to GavBelfast]

There is a professional organisation called EASL (European Association for the Study of the Liver) whose members are medical professionals. They meet at regular conferences and publish treatment guidelines for the different liver diseases. Then doctors and hepatologists follow these guidelines. The newest published treatment for NAFLD or fatty liver is here easl.eu/discover/news/new-s.... Published in April this year.

Those of us who have regular monitoring via scans for our liver are typically on 6 month scans. That's deemed sufficient by the doctors to pick up changes. I would say anything more frequent than that won't show a significant difference to the ultrasound you had recently and won't put your mind at rest. Give it 6 months following the published self help guidelines and then if you are still anxious, get another ultrasound done then.

[briccolone]

the fact that that your GGT is completely normal just one month afer complete doom would suggest your liver is absolutely fine...good luck

[Hidden]

Those are very nice blood results 😅😅😅😅😅 I would like those myself xxxx try not to worry - honestly - you may feel like something isn't 100% but those blood test results and comments are not suggesting anything is wrong and I would expect at least a few to be 'out of range' xxxx just for a bit of context - my hubby (classed as 'well') has at least 4x your alp/alt and his gamma gt is nearly 400 xx

[GavBelfast in reply to Hidden]

Hi, Robswife, and thanks. I guess I would prefer if the ALT and Gamma GT figures were a bit lower, but they're all normal now, so I can't complain. My energy levels are better, I don't feel sick or have a poor appetite any more, and have put some weight back on (so am, strictly-speaking) overweight again - probably too many sweets! I still have achy joints, but not as bad as they were. The only thing that doesn't seem to be right is the less dense hair on my head, hair and body, but I'm trying not to fret about it. I also have some outstanding blood tests at the doc's, but they said they would phone me if there was a problems, and I haven't heard anything from them so far.

The question is: have your hubby's enzymes levelled-off, or are they - better still - on the way down. Hope so!

Good luck!

Gavin.