**Just want to put a trigger disclaimer here just in case as I do not want to upset anyone who is struggling right now. Thank you.**
"You're very selfish. You should be more like your mother; selfless and always thinking of others."
This was something my dad uttered to me during my first year of college and it has been burned into my skull since. I will spare you the details, but my parents did not understand depression despite my very emotional, explosive meltdown as a 16-year-old who equally did not understand depression, but knew the feeling of wanting to die very clearly. It seemed that between the mental hospital, years of therapy and medication that it would register to them that whatever I was dealing with was very real and would not disappear very easily. They still to this day do not truly understand the severity of depression and anxiety.
That being said, those words were a very loud wakeup call for my young self who still was struggling to grow up and be human again. It was, in a way, more painful coming from family because despite having what I felt was a gaping, open wound, I was being told I didn't have any reason to be thinking of myself. That my anger and pain was me being a petulant child that needed to be silenced even though those wounds were bigger than they could see. And it made me question my worth even more as I saw myself as an even bigger burden because I couldn't get my act together. I couldn't silence my needs and I felt wrong for ever having such thoughts.
It took me years to adapt, but I worked hard to change my mental attitude towards others. I dug deep to put others before myself; to truly see the value in listening even if I didn't feel great myself. None of this came overnight, it took many years to accomplish as I found myself slipping back into talking about myself or my issues to whoever would listen. It went against everything I learned in therapy which encouraged talking things out with ones I trusted or could understand. However, my perception was so skewed that I would often tell the wrong sorts of people and it perpetuated those feelings of worthlessness as 'friends' would leave me or worse, talk smack about how messed up I was.
It felt like nothing I ever said or did was correct. Even to this day, I feel I can not escape those feelings despite being in a much better state of mind. That despite being a source of encouragement for ones who feel down themselves feels useless. Like whatever I have done doesn't matter. To be someone who struggles with depression, it can be hard to put yourself last when you yourself feel so low. It's almost like I have conditioned myself to keep my life private and remain positive for the sake of everyone else so that selfishness doesn't creep back in.
There have been times I've built someone up for things I truly valued about them only to feel worse about it in the end. To be told you're 'too nice' felt like an insult as the tone conveyed a 'you're annoying' vibe. To feel my efforts of being the person I truly think I am outside of the depression came with similar results; that people still disliked me and found me irritating. That the struggles aren't seen and the battles I fight are subpar. That no matter what person I am that day, it's not good enough.
Some days I do feel the warmth of helping others and that alone is good enough for me. Sometimes it isn't always about how they make me feel because I know it's the right thing to do whether they like me or not. It's out of my control regardless. But some days, I look at my phone and see the lack of texts and calls (no one usually talks to me unless I make the effort first) and find myself feeling very lonely. The idea that I could disappear and no one would notice or care comes to mind very frequently. Other days, I bask in the idea that I can live peacefully alone away from all humans and be truly content.
Despite having ups and downs, I will never forget my father's words as I always strive to be selfless somehow. Even if it hurts beyond belief doing so at moments as no one cares to notice the bleeding wound I call depression.
Your post reminds me of a book I just read called “your third story”. Your first story is the one you are born into. Your second story is the one you live (largely based on lies people wrote onto you throughout life). A few lucky people write a third story where they break free from the lies. Not that i’ve accomplished that, but you may enjoy the book as much as I did
Thank you very much for your thoughtful response. That sounds like a very interesting book by the way. It's almost like starting your life over so to speak on your terms (third story aspect). I'm not there either, but perhaps one day we will
You definitely don't strike me as being selfish, Gabby.
Your comments to people struggling here have been kind, compassionate, and grounded. You deserve the same care from others.
I never know quite what to say, so I usually turn to poems to speak for me. I'm not sure how much you enjoy reading poetry, but I posted a poem by Mary Oliver several months back that I hope can bring you some comfort (or if you're already familiar with it, I apologize for the redundancy):
You're far beyond sweet John. Everything you said really means so much to me. I know that it's not easy to respond in a way we think will benefit the other person, but what you've said and shared...I can tell there is heart behind it. I think I mentioned it prior, you can not fake these sorts of things.
I really do appreciate all forms of art, so I really enjoyed that poem. It actually made me cry after I finished reading your post about it. I've never had a partner who has loved me in return, so I can't imagine having to cut ties with someone who is supposed to be your best friend. I've read a few accounts on here that have brought up similar topics and it brings me comfort to know that you can still be loved by a significant other despite being so broken. That's something I would love to experience one day.
Absolutely, I wouldn't mind that at all. It is most welcomed if people desire to do so. Thank you so much for this response, John. I am glad we connected and are getting to know one another.
Thank you for understanding that my heart, however inarticulate it may be, is in the right place and squarely in your corner.
I sometimes cry when I read that Oliver poem aloud, it's so beautiful and life-affirming; it has been a lifeline more than once for me since I first found it. Thank you, too, for your compassion regarding the post about my marital situation.
I hope you will be as kind and loving to yourself as you are to others. What you do in this world matters so much, even if it doesn't feel that way to you right now. What you create matters. You matter.
I feel likewise about our connecting like this and I hope it deepens with our exchanges.
You always manage to make me smile, so thank you for that. You're very deep John and I appreciate that greatly about you already.
Yes...sometimes the smallest things can have the greatest impact on us. Who would have thought a bunch of words or even a burst of color could move people so deeply. Absolutely, no one here is unscathed by pain so I am glad I got to understand you a bit better.
Thank you very much, I will certainly do my best to continue doing so. I am sure with time, things will make more sense too. Yes, me too
I must echo MrMonk quite loudly: I would notice your absence and I would care.
I've come to enjoy seeing your responses on our pm. I'm still getting to know you, it's true, but I'm enjoying that very much. I WANT to know this Black_Cat_Girl so much better! I hope she lets me continue to talk with her and that she allows me to learn more about who she is and what she likes and doesn't like and where she's going...because she's interesting and worth knowing and listening to...at least,...she is to me!!!
It distresses me to hear what has been said to my friend, to hear about your pain. I want to make it go away...please tell me how to help do that...how can I help? Even a tiny bit? Or a huge bit would be wonderful but I'm not that powerful. I'll do most anything to ease such a terrible pain as you describe in a friend of mine. A beginning friendship to be sure, but still, a friendship. After all, isn't that part of what friends do for each other? Of course it is. In my book it is. So tell me what I can do to help and I'll do it. My friend. 🌿🌸🌞💐🌱😋❤️💝🤩😘💓🌺🙏🍂☺️💜💓 Tons of Hugs and Love and Blessings
You're too kind BonnieSue! Thank you for responding to me through here and in the chat (even though I feel I have not been able to do you justice on the level of care you've given!).
Likewise actually! I am trying my best to read as many posts as possible and at times, I really struggle on how to respond because so many people echo my exact thoughts. But I am glad you feel this way as I would also like to understand you better too!
No one likes to see ones they care about in pain, so I really understand that need to be there for others. I wish I knew what would help me in those moments, but honestly, just the fact that people respond here and can resonate so deeply is often enough. I know I am not alone, but to have someone actually attest to similar feelings goes beyond simply feeling alone. It's confirming I am not crazy or too sensitive or off the rails so to speak. And while I know people don't really know me that well, I don't plan on hiding anything as I truly want to be in a better spot.
So thank you for taking the time to respond in such a heartfelt way and being, from what I can see, a genuinely beautiful person.
Hello Black_Cat_Girl. Your post has me in tears. I cannot believe your father said those words to you. I can only imagine how deeply that hurt.
Forgive me for my long reply.
As you said, in therapy we are told how badly we need to focus on ourselves and our mental well being. This is a very very difficult thing for me to do. I went through a friend breakup and afterwards, my friend went on social media to post badly about me and blamed her own negative traits on me, saying I made her the way she is. The post shocked me and I vowed to make myself as selfless as possible. I had never been super selfish but I was so scared of making someone a worse person that I took it to the extreme. I made no time for myself and constantly did everything for others. My friends, family, even strangers, I was constantly doing everything for everyone else and I would shame myself if I felt bad for or thought of myself for even a moment. So I formed this habit of putting myself as the very least of my priorities. I remember instances where I would tell my friend “yes omg your boyfriend problems do matter! (Which they do) Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise!” While I’d be telling myself “don’t be sad that grandma passed away. Some people don’t get to know their grandparents and there are starving families out there. Be thankful for what you have”.
I truly TRULY believe my decision to do that is what has led me to be in the severe state of anxiety that I find myself living in daily. Something my mom is constantly telling me is “Lia you have got to focus on you and take care of you right now.” My reply is always “I can’t do that or else I will become selfish”. Well when I replied the same thing to my therapist when she looked at me and said “Lia you need to realize that you’re showing no one love by doing things for only them and not for yourself. I love you begins with I.” When she said that, I almost broke down.
So what I’m saying about myself, and it may be different for you, is that me sitting here and helping others, jumping at every opportunity to do something for someone else, is coming from the wrong motives. I am not helping others because I love them and want to help. I am helping others because it is the way that I cope with my past “selfishness”, and by helping others think I’m also helping myself, my status, who others perceive me as. I am almost using my good deeds as a way of getting revenge on my ex best friend. That was a hard pill to swallow.
Let me just say that I would much rather help 1 person with the correct motives than 1000 without the correct motives. So, and while it is extremely difficult, I am turning people down now in an effort to focus more on my mental health and getting better.
I don’t think you were selfish when you wanted to talk about your problems to whoever would listen. I think it’s more that you didn’t have some of the most important people in your life (your parents) to listen to you, so you looked for that satisfaction in others. You’re also trying to understand your depression and what your body is going through and honestly, it seems a lot easier to do that by talking and venting out loud to someone than it is through journaling and meditation, even though it really is not. Lastly, I feel that oftentimes, by talking to others, we are trying to make light of our situation. For example, I’ll tell my therapist “I had 3 panic attacks on Wednesday. I know I’m so dramatic haha” and I’ll realize how much I’m trying to lighten up an problem that practically had me paralyzed. Why am I sitting here making light of my debilitating panic attacks? Because it’s easier to discuss and work through? Because right now I understand they’re not life threatening like I thought the were in that moment? Well what’s that doing for me? Absolutely nothing.
In order to work through our problems we must remember them in the true raw state we experience them in. But our minds and bodies don’t want to do that so we end up telling and talking everyone about it in an effort to keep in the shallower waters and not have to move to the deep end with them. I think this is a time where you need to focus on yourself by yourself and your support team.
You are forming an incredible story of a survivor who has lived with depression for so long, didn’t understand what was going on, dealt family that wouldn’t listen or attempt to understand, tried to be selfless by constantly focusing on others...but it can’t end there. Think about how much more of an impact you can make on others after you’ve spent some time working on yourself. You won’t have to look to your good deeds for validation, but you’ll truly understand your value, and even when you’re not able to get the outcome you wanted by helping someone, you’ll still feel fulfilled in knowing you did everything you could. We cannot help or teach others to value themselves or move beyond their problems if we do not know how to value ourselves or move beyond our problems. Right now, there is only a limit to how much we can help people because were unable to go beyond what we ourselves couldn’t do for ourselves.
Take this time to focus on you. You are not selfish for doing so. Don’t ever tell yourself that. Look for productive ways to do so as well. I hardly open up to anyone about my anxiety because are they going to help me through it? No. I have myself and a support system to do that for me.
Do not let “I learned to be selfless but I’m still feeling horrible and my problems aren’t addressed” be your story. You are not selfish and you will overcome this but you have got to focus on you right now. As hard as it’s going to be, you’ve got to try to do it.
~Lia
You must be the female version of me. You almost explained my life to a tee. I hope you find peace. 🤗
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Haha, really? I oddly love when that happens. You must be a very sensitive man, I've seen the way you've posted to others and read a few of your own posts. I appreciate how you continue being a sweet person despite the pain. Same to you
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Thank you for your kind words. They have lifted my spirits. 🤗
I felt that, I've always thought that I can handle terrible comments from people despite describing myself as a sensitive person, yeah handling it is not that easy at least for me but I did pass through it but when those comments comes from a family or friends or relatives it makes it ten times worst and painful because of all people those people were the ones you've always thought you could count on or would understand or support/comfort you no matter what. So it makes it more hurtful when it comes to them and not just from a stranger or acquaintance. I also felt that of being alone and waiting for calls or messages that doesn't came. But from your post what confuses me is that someone calling you selfish or believing you're selfish which isn't true well at least from what i have seen through you, i know i dont know you well but those comment of yours did helped me/and other people, you lifted my mood from my last post even though you can't do it to yourself, and that makes you not selfish, you still support other people. I support you and ready anytime to give comfort, we're all gonna fight through this
Oh yes, it definitely is more painful from family and friends, you're right. Yup, you feel betrayed somehow because you relied on the ones you saw as your lifeline. And to your point, something my sister and others would harp on me about was to 'trust others' which is very hard to do when said family members have said or done things that make you lose trust in them. I've been trying to accept that while I know my family loves me, they simply do not understand my struggles and I may not have close bonds with them because of it. Even when my sister was home recently for a few months, she made a comment that sounded like it was directed towards me. She had said that sometimes people avoid others because they remind them too much of themselves. We are very similar in a lot of respects, so it pained me as it made me realize her coping mechanism is to avoid me for her own sanity.
The comment about me being selfish was from my father many years ago. I have heard it a few times from a handful of people growing up, but more recently, a friend said I was being self-centered because I wasn't giving enough of my time to others. I am sure that triggered these feelings as it made me question myself again. I spoke to a much closer friend about it and they reassured me that they are very wrong, so who knows.
But I am glad what I have been able to say is helping you! That truly means a lot and while I am quite new, I would love to get to know you better if that's possible. I'll gladly support you too, that's what this is all about. Thank you so much for your lovely response.
I try not to even bring up how I'm feeling anymore. I just assume if anyone asks, it's the usual being polite day filler that everyone says and nobody means so I respond accordingly.
That's what I do as well. Especially with family as everyone else seems to be dealing with greater problems, so I just keep my mouth shut and try to convey as much positivity as possible.
It’s always about others and how I can better manage situations.
I feel it
Every good wish to you 🌻 x
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Thank you for sharing this with me. It's the same boat with me too, just started therapy again for the first time in years. I hope it has been serving you well and giving you the help you need. Absolutely, I agree. We just have to learn how to adapt properly, but we'll get there. Likewise
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It does help to know we are not alone...it is tough.
Personally...I think validation of your own pain is critical. Your feeling broken from not being acknowledged and told your selfish by the one person in the world you look to for comfort and understanding,...a parent. The hardest thing for any of us with this disease is to understand it ourselves, that unless you have depression....you really can't understand it. So looking for others who don't have the disease to validate us usually doesn't work out so well.
The empathy you can share with others who have the disease comes from understanding it from your own experience. You don't have to be disingenuous at all, you can be honest, say that you empathize because you suffer too. I know I would appreciate that, and learning to live with this disease and not be in denial, know that life is possible, that we can be happy at times, and that this is chemical, it's not our fault, we accept we have no control over some things in our lives.....I think we can all find a way, but it's a lot of work.
Happy birthday by the way....and hope you had a great day.....
I just read your post. Wow. I felt like you were describing me, though I'm not as good a writer. I would have noticed you in a fraction of a heart beat. I certainly would have noticed your absence after knowing you for short while. Of your comments in your post I knew another like you. I met him in elementary school and up to high school. He lost his way and passed away in our junior year in high school. I wish I could have written what you wrote and given it to him back then. We all would have been kindred spirits and life long friends struggling through life with this depression. Right now I can only say that your post reminded me of him again and I feel whole again. I hope it last. Thank you.
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Wow...this is so touching. Thank you so much for this. It always breaks my heart when I read responses like this as many people feel the need to stay silent about the pain and we often do not find the support we need until later in life. But I am glad it has given you some sense of comfort to know others can follow a similar path. It's what I hope I can do here with my experiences as so many have been able to provide for me already. I feel so honored to be able to help you in such a way; it's an absolute pleasure.
I can definitely relate to your words "I look at my phone and see the lack of texts and calls (no one usually talks to me unless I make the effort first) and find myself feeling very lonely." I am tremendously dishearted that this has happened to you. I also struggle with my outward persona compared to who I am when I am home. I am not the nicest person at times and it can be hard to live with me because I always feel like when I put others first that they sometimes take advantage of me so then I have to go on "turbo annoying" mode and make it hard because I feel like I am not getting what I need in return. It is very challenging indeed.
You're so sweet...seriously. I've seen how you respond to others here and I see a very loving person. While you may see a certain side to yourself, remember that we are ALL guilty of having that 'ugly' version of ourselves we don't want others to see. It doesn't discount all the GOOD qualities you have. Some people choose to only see the bad, not the good. That is something I know I struggle with at times (seeing the good in others), but it's a work in progress. We can change and it's possible to continue improving.
It really upsets me that you deal with this too. It's such an awful feeling. My sister often gets mad at me and says 'so many people love you' but I find that hard to believe without action. How am I supposed to know when no one reaches out to me? Seems so easy for everyone else. But that also angers her, so I try my best not to say anything anymore (what's the point).
Anyway, I am sorry you feel like you're putting out more than you receive. It can be a painful reminder for us that we need to lower our expectations of others. Some people simply can not give the way we do and that can be a hard pill to swallow. But if you ever feel low and need someone to talk to, I am always here. Thank you for your response.
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