Vitamin K2 experience anybody?

HI all. This may be old hat to many, but I've just run into a reference to vitamin K2 which talks about its helping issues to do with calcium and cholesterol handling, and other processes.

Pardon if I've not got it exactly right as I only skimmed what was fairly basic information - but there seems to be a suggestion that it's also helpful with some of the metabolic and inflammatory issues which may underly Parkinson's disease and the like. It's supposed to greatly enhance the benefit of/ability to use vitamin D when taken with it - the two are seemingly often paired. Some mutterings about its helping adrenal function too?

Which pricked up my ears since that sort of combination of effects rings bells in that these are all factors which tend to surface in and around hypothyroidism.

A quick dig suggests that there's a vitamin K1 which helps with blood clotting, and a synthetic K3 which some don't recommend. K2 is the interesting one.

It seems not to be the easiest to source - either naturally or as a supplement. Butter oil (from grass fed cows) and fermented cod liver oil are listed as two. Also free range grass fed eggs. Green vegetables also, but in lower quantities. Also a not very nice tasting traditional fermented soya food from Japan.

There are some supplements, but they seem expensive and not that easily sourced. There may be a risk of getting passed of the apparently wrong K3/synthetic type too.

Experience anybody?

ian

14 Replies

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  • Hi Yes this info is on the WEB, however any K can be extremely dangerous as it effects the clotting. Calcium must always be in range as an electrolyte, there is a specific blood test for calcium. if taking D, the calcium must be in range as it can make the calcium go too high. I cannot take D any more for this reason , as too dangerous although I have extremely low vit D in my body. With a clotting problem one has to carefully watch the amount of any vit K in the diet.I hope this is some help.

    Best wishes,

    Jackie

  • I read about Vit K2 and found Gouda cheese was a good way of getting it:

    I now get Gouda, not my favourite but then health is more important than taste and I'm getting used to it. It's also a natural way of getting the vitamin.

    thehealthyhomeeconomist.com...

  • A few yrs ago, I threw out some old red, nursing medical books dating c. 50's. They were lecture notes. There were many chapters prescribing vit K and the great results they got from that. Funnily enough at that time they were not sure how it did it, but went by symptoms and results from sick patients.

    I think as it cant be patented or made money from etc. its not promoted by the medical profession and the EU seem to make sure supplements and vitamins cant be prescribed or developed these days.

  • Natto! The not very nice tasting traditional fermented soya food from Japan. It's an acquired taste, but I have three pots in the freezer. Just needs soy sauce, mustard & rice to make it palatable.

    It's no worse that blue cheese. (which I love; maybe that explains something)

  • Ta girls. It sounds like it's stick to the cheese, butter, eggs and plenty of green veggies. Interesting that it's Gouda - must be something specific about the fermentation reaction(?)/bugs that make that specific cheese that makes the K2.

    Re. the commercial interest. AS ever it sounds like folk wisdom had a pretty good handle on it. It's interesting too that it may tie in with some of the recent research findings (reported in our local paper anyway) to the effect that animal fats (e.g. the butter, eggs and cheese mentioned above) have been getting a bad press, and that lo and behold it now seems we badly need them.

    The fact is mind you that there has long been a faction that said 'how come if fats are so bad for us????? ... while pointing to the excellent health of several native populations known for eating large quantities of animal fats.

    It's very possible that we're doing harm to ourselves by eating these awful spreads sold in place of butter and drinking skimmed milk products with the good stripped out that trumpet their low cholesterol.

    My wife tends to break veins in her fingers, and K1 seems to increase the risk of it happening in here case - so it does need watching.

    Peculiarly enough I've come to find myself drawn to Gouda cheese, spinach and the like and most of the - somehow feeling well immediately after eating it. Not so sure about the natto :) - that was the word I couldn't remember. With the opposite effect in the case of stuff like the aforesaid margarines, most processed foods and so on.

    I've posted before on personal experience that (as widely taught by many traditions) suggests that a very large part of both illness and health is to do with mind - with what health status we decide to adopt. (the rationale is that by 'hypnotising' ourselves/getting the message through to the higher/deeper levels of mind we get all our faculties aligned and start to create/deliver the reality.

    This potentially plays out in many ways at many levels - not just in the physical/biological/dietary sense that conventional medicine would recognise. We can hold a conscious view that we e.g. don't like fat, or become 'afraid' of it - and as a result decide to eat low cholesterol foods. We can also if we manage the self hypnosis that leads to fear (patterns of behaviour become subconscious over time = hypnosis anyway) on the issue find ourselves deciding that we don't like a given food anyway - even if it's one we need.

    With growing consciousness and awareness (and greater openness) I seem to have found myself realising that if we can be mindful enough of what our body is telling us we can be very clearly guided by how it responds. It's not just a matter of waiting for overt physical effects to manifest - it's energetic in nature, and immediate. I seem to experience improved or reduced energy and/or feelings of wellbeing or the opposite immediately after eating) a given food.

    It's interesting territory, because while of course dietary deficiencies and excesses (especially on top of other illness/imbalance) of course make life much tougher for the organism and may trigger latent physical responses like food allergies or pre-existing tendencies - it's also the case that problems like these (including stuff like chronic fatigue, hypothyroidism etc) seem likely to quite a large degree be the result of a decision to 'get sick'. (pardon any offence to those fed up with the depression diagnosis, but there's a difference between a throw away version to cover a doc's ass and one that leads to working with mind as well as the physical side)

    Even if an issue is not entirely mind based, it seems likely that we may worsen and/or not heal as a result of our becoming identified with the belief that we are sick. Personal experience suggests that it's to quite a degree possible to move ourselves on to a healing trajectory by believing it into existence.

    Thought and desire by the way are not the same as belief....

    Interesting example. How is it that my blood pressure responds instantly when I place blood pressure pill on my tongue? Before it's even had time to be swallowed, never mind absorbed?

    Oopps. There I go again rabbiting on and floating stuff from the fringes. It's worth having a look at though - the whole field of mind and energy medicine (which of course has long been in existence in the East, but is now developing in the West too) adds lots to more conventional approaches.

    Signs are that there are whole energy systems that western science doesn't recognise, at least not in mainstream terms. There is lots of research out there that has identified its effects though...

    ian

  • Typo 2nd paragraph above: 'to the effect that the animal fats (e.g. the butter, eggs and cheese mentioned above) that have been getting a bad press are in fact (in presumably reasonable quantities?) good for us - and that lo and behold it now seems we badly need them.

    ian

  • I can't locate the article but I've been using K2 for over a year with my vitamin D. I remember reading that overdosing is not really a problem. And speaking of cheeses, many can contain K2 but only if it is incorporated, so, many will also not contain K2. I will try to find the article as these new findings make K2 sound very, very beneficial.

  • Didn't someone post about a week ago that Brie cheese and chicken liver pate was full of Vit K2? Health Plus do Vit K2 supplement (vegan), but unfortunately I cannot remember where I got them.

  • I saw a mention somewhere of Brie as being high in K2 as well. Mmmmmm

    ian

  • Just in case anyone is interested, the US vitamin brand Twinlab do a combined vitamin D + K2 product called D Dots +K2. Tiny tablets for taking sublingually.

    They are available in the UK, although rather expensive. I'm giving an Amazon link here amzn.to/15QKQ2W for ease of viewing the product, but I expect they're available elsewhere.

  • All the info you need is is Kate Rheume-Bleau's book K2 and the Calcium paradox. You can go onto Amazon and read some of the pages before you buy it. It's very very interesting.

  • Those sound like good options. Thank you both

    ian

  • K2 is supposed to make sure that calcium ends up in your bones, not your arteries. So in many ways it is essential for people with heart problems (although some other meds might need to be increased to compensate). The cardio I saw this week seemed to think it was a good idea to take it. Mind you, he also said that beta blockers would probably make me feel worse and might trigger my asthma again, and that it me he was treating, not my GP, so I shouldn't worry about spending the NHS's money.

  • That ties in with what i saw too Angel.

    It's useful to get an establishment endorsement for something - not always meaningful especially in terms of total health effect, but its usually based on a clear statement of at least one biological activity of a compound.

    It's interesting too (that as I experienced) that hypothyroidism can be linked with a tendency to inappropriate blood clotting. I wonder if K might not be a factor in this too?

    The fact that the naturally occurring sources of it (grass fed butter, milk, eggs, fermented cod liver oil, certain fresh green vegetables and the like) are largely excluded by the highly processed and equally the low fat diets that many are de facto (if not intentionally) on might well suggest that it's important to health, and that low intake might in some way be linked to so many of the chronic 'modern' conditions we seem now to be experiencing.

    Some seem to avoid K2 because it can affect other bodily processes, but that could be an indication of its relevance for those that need it too. I'm going to try stepping up my intake in the hope that it might help my blood pressure and general health.

    I take beta blockers because the blood pressure is very responsive to even low stress levels - adrenaline or similar seems to be in the middle of the issue and they block it somewhat. (as well as thyroid metabolism to a degree it seems too) Nothing other blood pressure pill that's been tried gives control.

    I seem to find that dialling in to exactly the correct dosage is absolutely critical. That too much leaves me feeling hypo and dead beat, that too little doesn't control the blood pressure. There's a band of about 1mg (1/4 tablet) that is the difference between decent blood pressure and feeling normal - with the above symptoms depending on which direction the dose is wrong otherwise. The effect has been stable for several years now - even though my blood pressure situation has been slowly improving.

    I've found that physicians are not aware of this, and that they tend to be very heavy handed in prescribing the things. Which isn't good, because I'm a firm believer that (quite apart from the unnecessary suffering) when the body is telling us it doesn't like something that it behoves us to listen. That pushing on regardless may well be harmful.....

    ian

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