How much K2 daily is safe to take please?

[Delgor]

Sorry if this question has been asked before but I've not been able to find it in search. I've been taking a vit D3 (2000 iu) together with K2 (90g) capsule along with an extra 1000 iu of D3 daily for some time now but would like to up the D3 to 4000 iu. Please can you advise SeasideSusie or anyone else who may know if it would be okay to take 2 capsules of D3 (4000 iu) together with K2 (180g) daily or could this be too much K2 which incidentally has never been tested. Many thanks for any advice you can give😕

[SeasideSusie Remembering]

Delgor

As always there is conflicting suggestions when doing a Google search.

When I was looking into this I found it was said that 90-100mcg K2-MK7 is enough for up to 10,000iu D3. I no longer have my source for this information I'm afraid.

This particular blog post (long read, scroll down for this quote) is mainly about K2 and osteoporosis and says

melioguide.com/osteoporosis...

Vitamin K2 MK7 Dosage Recommendations

The 2013 study in the Netherlands discussed above (8) used a dosage of 0.18 mg/day (180 µg/day) of Vitamin K2 Mk7 supplements.

In his book, Vitamin K2: The Missing Nutrient for Heart and Bone Health, Dr. Dennis Goodman, a cardiologist in New York City, also recommends between 150 to 180 µg/day of MK-7 Vitamin K2 (16).

This article (although on a site which sells supplements) says

vitaminexpress.org/uk/how-t...

Professor Vermeer of the University of Maastricht thus recommends that people aged over 50 take a dosage of 100 to 200mcg vitamin K2 per day. The higher dosage of 200mcg is especially recommended for people who have a history of cardiovascular disease or osteoporosis in their families.

The National Instute of Health suggests 90mcg K2-MK7 for females over 19 years of age and 120mcg for males over 19 years of age (screenshot attached)

ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/V...

If your supplement is a combined D3/K2-MK7 then you have no choice but I wouldn't go more than 200mcg daily. Also, do be aware that both are fat soluble and will compete for fat for absorption in a combined supplement.

[Delgor in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thanks so much Susie for the detailed explanation and links - it's much appreciated as always!

[arTistapple in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thanks for bringing this up Delgor its made me look again at my K-Pearls. Realised I had no idea the difference between ug and mcg. As it turns out they are the same! However my K-Pearls are only 75ug and my D3 is 5,000 daily, from which I have to say I am noticing a distinct improvement in my muscle stuff and fatigue, now that I have just left my thyroid meds at 100mcg levo for about four months now. So my question is am I taking enough? Looks like from the references you have given SeasideSusie I should perhaps be taking 2 @ 75ug to match my 5,000 Vit D?? Although the reference you no longer have, works out much more closely to what I am taking?

I noticed on another post yesterday a reply from SlowDragon or maybe @Greygoose said hypothyroidism could actually be caused by low Vit D. It’s certainly been an important deficiency for me to attempt to improve.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to arTistapple]

arTistapple

So my question is am I taking enough? Looks like from the references you have given SeasideSusie I should perhaps be taking 2 @ 75ug to match my 5,000 Vit D??

Obviously this is your choice, take your personal circumstances into account.

I have always used 100mcg as my D3 dose is 5,000iu. My last two bottles have been 200mcg as I can't get my chosen brand in the lower dose now so I was taking one capsule alternate days. However, very recently I found out I had an "Osteoporotic fracture of T9 vertebrae" and you have to have osteoporosis to have an osteoporotic fracture. I had no idea I have osteoporosis, never had a Dexa scan, never broken any bone, no obvious clues that I've noticed and the ANP who I see at my surgery said I certainly don't give any visual clue (presumably she means I haven't lost height, don't stoop, etc). So now I have started to take 1 x 200mcg capsule daily - too little too late but one does what one can!

[Delgor in reply to SeasideSusie]

Sorry to hear about the fracture Susie but at least you are now on the case. I feel a bit miffed as I was referred to the hospital in 2014 as my right hip was jutting out but nobody thought to give me a bone scan even though I had had an early menopause and I was led to believe that I had adult onset scoliosis. It was only because another doctor raised the subject some years later that I had a bone scan and was also found to be deficient in vit D and I've now lost 3" in height but thankfully don't appear to be too stooped at the moment. Hope you are now fully recovered from your op!

[arTistapple in reply to SeasideSusie]

OK so your K2 was already higher than mine @100 mcg, so I think I will double my K2 to 150mcg. It will still be less than you but between both recommendations. I have no sign of any osteoporosis either but I am clearly unable to sustain my D levels without supplementation. One of my biggest problems are my muscles which are off course almost as important as bones, to hold the structure of the body together. I am beginning to feel like I will soon be rattling with all my supplements but definitely no adverse effects. As I say I feel better at the moment than in quite some time.

In fact an odd thing I have noticed is that when I am not doing so well, I immediately return to taking it all very hard. However luckily there seems to be less of that and now I have spotted it, that also makes me a bit less hard on myself.

Thank you for all the help over the months. My GP did tell me I had a deficiency in Vit D and then did nothing about it. It was not until reading your posts on the forum that I had any idea of the critical need for VitD, the quality and amount necessary and the very important need for K2.

[Fruitandnutcase]

Are you testing your D3 levels regularly. My osteoporosis nurse told me I couldn’t ‘overdose’ but even then I test regularly , I wouldn’t want my D3 to be off the scale.

[arTistapple in reply to Fruitandnutcase]

Yes it was tested about two months ago and had halved over a period of about three months of sporadic use to about one quarter of recommended level. It had only ever reached half of the recommended level. I will be testing it again before I embark on T3 in approx another month or six weeks. Some other tweaks and support to do first. VitD has been my most obvious and persistent deficiency. Oddly there was quite a discrepancy between the GP test and Medichecks. Medichecks level had not got as low as the GPs. So something else to take into consideration.

I must say I do feel much better than I have felt in a very long time but as I can’t convert, I want to see how far decent Vit D levels could be helpful. However my biggie that stops me doing very much is - muscles (very much including heart) - where off course the GP sees no connection.

Thanks for reading my contribution/question.

[Fruitandnutcase in reply to arTistapple]

Do you take magnesium? I’ve found that helpful for muscle aches. At the moment I’m using BetterYou muscle spray and gel plus I like a nice soak in a bath with magnesium flakes. I also take a daily magnesium capsule.

[arTistapple in reply to Fruitandnutcase]

In the past I have used sprays but I don’t like the texture. Unfortunately I still can’t get in or out of a bath (have not been able to do that for six or seven years). I started using Magnesium Citrate for constipation which in fact has been demonstrably better for relaxation as well as the constipation and recently reintroduced one magnesium 200 mg per day. Whilst I have all the aches and muscle stuff you can think of, my main source of difficulty (and somehow I do forget, it’s been with me so long) is my heart. It seems it is distinctly affected by my hypothyroidism of very long standing. I am presently aiming still for T3.

[Sneedle in reply to arTistapple]

Hi ArTistapple,

For what it's worth I took (by accident) 12 000 iu vit D daily between November last year and March. On testing in March my vit D was only 80. No prior testing.

I then dropped it to 5000 daily and the test in June was 106.

A nutritionist I see said she never gets hers above 80 with supplementing.

So I guess for some people it's hard to raise and keep there.

BTW no obvious problems with taking the high amount!

Cheers

[arTistapple in reply to Sneedle]

That’s interesting Sneedle. I have spent most of my life indoors. I wonder if I might have ‘turned off’ my ability to create my own Vit D or at least down graded it. Strangely it’s amazing what behavioural habits you take in by osmosis. My Mother had freckles and never went outside as she swore they made her repulsive. (INMO I call her a ‘functioning hypothyroid’ but never diagnosed). I think I have just followed suit, even although I have no freckles! So I will keep in mind this difficulty with keeping Vit D levels up and pay it even more attention as it does seem to be helping.

[Delgor in reply to arTistapple]

Sorry for butting in Art but there's no doubt in my mind that I have always been a summer person and have always said that sunshine and warmth energises me even though others have said it's psychological. I love nothing more than gardening when the weather is warm and can don suntop and shorts and like you have felt a lot better recently which I definitely attribute to the weather. Unfortunately, for various reasons we haven't been abroad for 4 years which was always a really good boost and I believe I am right in saying that the thyroid has to work harder in winter just to keep us warm, plus sunshine helps to balance our hormones.

It was interesting to hear from Fruitandnutcase that her osteoporosis nurse told her that we couldn't overdose on vit D - I'm not certain about that so will have to investigate further. This certainly did turn into an interesting post for both of us😊🤗

[arTistapple in reply to Delgor]

Think it was me butting in on your post! I do prefer warm weather but I also have a problem when weather is too hot! I have definitely been energised recently -though I have so much to catch up on indoors, I still fall into my old ways. However yes it’s definitely been a useful post for both of us.

[Delgor in reply to arTistapple]

You were definitely not butting in on my post - you were asking questions because of the post I raised (have done the same myself) and that is the wonderful thing about this forum as we are all learning from each other. I don't think you are alone in not liking weather that is too hot - we are all different as to what temperature suits us best. ~Take Care~

[Sneedle in reply to arTistapple]

The nutritionist reckoned her vit D-raising 'difficulty' was genetic (she gad identified a certain gene or genes apparently), but either way it's good to keep an eye on - it's easily forgotten for me somehow.Oh and the same nutritionist told me I only needed to take my vit K two times a week (so 100mcg twice a week) while I was on the 12 000 iu of vit D.

But that was me!

I'm glad to hear you're benefiting from your vitamin D.

[arTistapple in reply to Sneedle]

I think there could be something in the genetic thing too. I have always thought that about hypothyroidism. Both branches of my family come from big historical ‘famine’ areas. One branch from Ireland and one from the area in Scotland which has certainly the highest number of hypothyroids in the UK. Maybe the Vit D thing has something to do with that too. Certainly not much sunshine in either of those areas, low temperatures etc. Any McHow, I am finding I have picked up a lot since properly taking my Vit D supplement. Steady use of my levo @ 100 mcg. Good weather and my wonderful (although not so wonderful at first due to my obstinacy) CPAP machine, I at last seem to be feeling better. I know I keep saying it but thank you Jaydee1507 for my wonderful talking to - and long may it last.

You would think from the ravings above that I am ‘cured’. Unfortunately not. All my signs and symptoms remain. It’s mainly I have some welcome energy back, I am sleeping better, I am managing to get my house a bit sorted, slowly. It just feels like a bit of life in my life has returned.

[Delgor in reply to Fruitandnutcase]

Hi Fruitandnutcase

I've been taking 3000 iu of Vit D for some years which has kept me at the 100 mark in range. However, I do have osteoporosis and have never really had any help from the GP on this and my last bone scan wasn't at all good so I was put back on Alendronic Acid weekly. I also started taking the K2 after reading about it on this forum although when I phoned the ROS for advice they said there wasn't any evidence that K2 did anything and so didn't recommend! I would be very interested to hear what other supplements you might be taking for bone health if you have a minute.

[Fruitandnutcase in reply to Delgor]

No, when I spoke to my osteoporosis nurse she didn’t even seem to have heard of Vitamin K! I didn’t let that put me off though. That was the person who told me I couldn’t overdose on vitamin D. I’m sure you could though.

Anyway, at the moment I’m taking K2 Mk-7 100ug

Magnesium Citrate 150mg from Magnesium Citrate buffered 500mg - whatever that means.

I used to take Future You Magnesium + The + was B6 which I didn’t really want it was Magnesium Lactate 574.9mg Of which Magnesium 56.25

Boron 3mg

Calcium - from Atlantic seaweed - the dose is two capsules a day but I only take one just to top up on my dietary calcium. It also has 72 trace minerals - can’t remember what they are. The calcium I was prescribed upset my gut - this is fine.

Vitamin D3 - 1000IU - 3000IU depending on my levels. I need to take it all year sun exposure doesn’t seem to work for me. I also eat a lot of foods that contain vitamin D3.

I also take one capsule of Omega 3 algae oil /DHA

Ive been totally GF since I was diagnose with a second autoimmune condition 12 years ago. I don’t eat a lot of dairy produce - I eat mostly chicken, fish, pork, lamb, the occasional steak but not a lot of red meat really, eggs, unsalted nuts and seeds. I don’t eat junk food or have fizzy drinks, just water or weak decaffeinated tea / coffee, maybe a very odd glass of red wine.

the Royal Osteoporosis Society have lists of bone friendly foods that are worth looking at theros.org.uk

[Delgor in reply to Fruitandnutcase]

Oh thank you very much for your very informative reply. I did actually go gluten, dairy, soy, and caffeine free a couple of years ago now and don't eat any junk food and also trying to focus on the gut as I was told by an AP that I wasn't absorbing nutrients.

Unfortunately my exercise regime is very limited as I get post exertional malaise but I try to keep active in other ways. That was interesting hearing of the supplements that you take and thank you again as it has all been extremely helpful as well as interesting!

[Fruitandnutcase in reply to Delgor]

Do you take pre or probiotics for your gut? I’d love to like sauerkraut but just don’t love it. I don’t normally like yoghurt but I’ve been having live yoghurt on top of defrosted frozen mixed berries and they are so sharp that they make the yoghurt taste almost sweet so I’ve been having that to try and help the gut. You don’t want to mess your thyroid by over exercising. When I had Graves I had absolute energy at all and there was no point beating myself up about it. I managed to keep at my gym class because I loved the friendly group I was with but I turned everything down and I kept at Pilates because my teacher is a physiotherapist and she could tailor everything to how I was feeling. I was determined Graves wasn’t going to stop me doing everything I enjoyed although I had to stop walking, I just didn’t have the energy.

Look after yourself 😊

[Delgor in reply to Fruitandnutcase]

Yes I'm quite well read up on gut health although like you don't like certain food although I do miss cheese the most and haven't been able to find a good substitute as yet.

Not sure what thyroid disease I have, would you believe, as I went badly over active with a goitre some 30 years ago after a virus and was only told I needed to have a thyroidectomy (I didn't question docs in those days). I've obviously got acquired hypothyroidism now but also being told I have CFS again so trying to ensure I'm doing the best I can for thyroid and everything else. Lovely talking to you. ~Take Care~

[Imaaan]

Hello,

I just wanted to add that I get palpitations/tachycardia when I take over 120 mcg. Hopefully you wont experience any of it if you decide to take anything above

[Delgor in reply to Imaaan]

Thanks so much for the heads up Imaaan - definitely worth knowing!