NDT has raised my thyroid anti-bodies. What's next?

[Juliet_22]

Hi All,

As I just made a post with my update on NDT (good T3 and T4 levels, but TSH is 0.017, so too low), I received my latest anti-bodies results.

And they went up! I've heard some people shared how their anti-bodies went up as well on NDT.

Yes, I'm on a gluten-free, whole food diet, been on it for 10 years, I take selenium 200 dose, zinc, iron, vitamin D, B12 supplements, Omega 3, and black cumin seeds.

Prior to NDT, I managed to lower my anti-TG to a normal range and my anti-TPO was hovering around 100-150 - yes, even with all the right things I've been doing (would love to get it lower, but already doing my best!)

So before NDT,

Anti-TG: 46 (lab range 0-115)

Anti-TPO: 168 (lab range 0-34)

6 weeks into NDT,

Anti-TG: 259!! (moved and had to use a different lab, their range is 0-4.11)

Anti-TPO: 114 (moved and had to use a different lab, their range is 0-5.61)

My hair loss is also the worst it's ever been!

I don't want to be raising my anti-bodies further. My neck has been feeling uncomfortable lately as well.

I'm thinking of trying what Dr Ken Blanchard suggests in his book "What your doc may not tell you about hypothyroidism", which is 98% of T4 and 2% of T3 in NDT. He says that ratio almost universally works for his patients. He noticed that NDT worked for some of them for a couple of months and then some would start to have problems. And 98% of T4 and 2% of T3 NDT did wonders.

So I would take 75 mcg of levo T4, which is what I was on before and adding 1/4 of a grain of Erfa NDT. It would also make it so manageable for me in terms of getting enough NDT as I live in another country and getting things here is not easy, plus it's expensive to ship.

Do I do it "cold turkey?" Or shall I go back to T4 only? (but I would miss the boosted mood aspect that NDT gives you!)

I actually felt my best when I just came off T4 levo and started including NDT and I'm thinking perhaps it was because I still had T4 in my body and took a small dose of NDT.

I haven't been able to tolerate synthetic T3 before, so I'm not sure if I want to take it again. NDT has helped me, but now new issues have popped up.

I would love to hear your thoughts and experiences to understand what is my best plan of action.

Thank you, beautiful people of this amazing forum!

[SlowDragon Administrator]

TG antibodies tend to go down when on adequate replacement dose …..and go up when not on high enough dose

TPO antibodies tend to be the ones that reduce on GF and DF diet

What are Thyroid results from before changing to NDT and now

How long have you been on NDT

What are your most recent iron and ferritin results

When taking iron you need full iron panel test 3-4 times a year

You need to test vitamin D, folate and B12 too

[Juliet_22 in reply to SlowDragon]

Thank you! Definitely on high enough dose now with TSH of 0.017, but anti-TG went up on NDT. Pulse has been towards the higher side, so if anything, I need to reduce a bit.

Before NDT: TSH 3.1, T4 - 50% of the range, T3 - 32% of the range. Took levo, 75-88-88, alternating, couldn't increase levo any further, so switched to NDT.

Been on NDT for 6 weeks.

Ferritin has actually gone down on NDT as well, from 50 (still low, I know and I was raising it) to 32 ... while still supplementing. My iron levels are usually good ranges, it's the ferritin that's an issue for me.

D was great, 60 ng/ml, B12 was 650, folate was towards the top. Supplementing all those and test them regularly.

My question is - should I go back to levo and perhaps add 1/4 grain of NDT?

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Juliet_22]

TSH is always extremely low or suppressed on NDT

Just testing TSH is inadequate

You need TSH, Ft4 and Ft3 tested and day before test split NDT as 2 smaller doses with last dose 10-12 hours before test

As to wether you should change…..too soon to tell

[Juliet_22 in reply to SlowDragon]

Yes, tested T3 and T4, always test them too as well and shared results. Latest T3 is 70 percent of the range and T4 is 47 percent of the range. But I noticed my pulse has been close to 90, this is on a high side for me personally.

Why would it be too soon to tell providing my current results?

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Juliet_22]

Because it typically takes 12-16 weeks to settle after any significant changes

You might need to reduce NDT and add some levothyroxine

Many people find NDT has too much T3 in relation to T4

[Lalatoot]

Juliet, Dr Ken Blanchard prescribed his patients slow release t3. I don't know if his method would work with his small doses if the t3 is not in slow release form.You may need to take more t3 to compensate. I take 2x50mcg levo, 5mcg t3, 2.5mcg t3 daily

[Juliet_22 in reply to Lalatoot]

I actually got a bit confused about that in his book. He talks about giving his patients Armor in small doses, like 1/4 grains on top of 100 McG of levo. And then he talks about slow release T3. Perhaps he gives different things to different people? My T3 on levo alone was hovering at around 35 percent of the range, do not bad, but higher is better. Thinking perhaps a small dose of NDT with levo will do the trick and get my T3 to at least 50 percent of the range, and also be much cheaper and easier to manage!

[tattybogle in reply to Lalatoot]

arguably , NDT is a form of slow release T3 , due to it being bound to ... erm whatever it's bound to ... forgotten... lol

[Juliet_22 in reply to tattybogle]

Arg, that makes sense then! As he always talks about slow release T3 and that being NDT too.

[pennyannie in reply to tattybogle]

Thyroglobulin :

[greygoose]

Why are you so worried about your antibodies going up? What do you think they're doing to you? Antibodies fluctuate all the time - they go up and down. They tend to be highest just after an autoimmune attack on the thyroid, when they have a job to do: cleaning up the blood. During an attack the dying cells release their stock of hormone into the blood, causing FT4/3 levels to rise sharply. At the same time, minute quantities of TPO (Thyroid Peroxidase) and Tg (Thyroglobulin), proteins necessary for the manufacture of thyroid hormones, leak into the blood. They shouldn't be there. So, the antibodies come along and mark them out for destruction.

So, given the job they do, why would you be so keen to reduce them? Personally, I'd rather have high antibodies and clean blood.

[pennyannie]

You need to be on the same dose for around 6 - 8 weeks and then take a blood test to compare to the bench mark readings.

If your pulse to running too fast for you and you witnessed this increasing as you have increased the dose - you likely need to drop back again and settle on a dose that gives you an acceptable pulse rate.

Efra contains the least ' fillers ' but some people with Hashimoto's can't tolerate NDT as it is pig thyroid and the thinking goes introducing more thyroid content hormone replacement increases and upsets their body more than synthetic T3/T4 thyroid hormone replacement.

[Juliet_22 in reply to pennyannie]

Thank you so much for the input! Yes, totally re staying on the same dose, but reducing if symptoms show the need to.

Yes, I've read that some people with Hashi didn't do well on NDT.

With my anti-bodies, they were at the same level for a few years and only increased after taking NDT, so I'm not sure if I should go back to levo.

Do you personally take a combo of synthetic T3 and T4?

[pennyannie in reply to Juliet_22]

I'm with Graves Disease but post RAI thyroid ablation 2005 so presume I'm without any thyroid function now - though there has never been any follow up and I've ended up self medicating - details on my profile page if interested - just press the icon alongside my name in this reply - if interested.

No - I take a brand of NDT :