My periods stopped all of a sudden when I was 43 back in September 2020. They came back in July 2021 for 3 months. Although the first two were only 22 days apart. Then they stopped again in September 2021.
I’ve had awful sleep issues, extreme hair loss, extremely dry skin, aches and pains. Brain fog and easily annoyed. Also itchy discharge which has now stopped. Finding I can’t sleep and haven’t slept properly in at least 2 years. Sleep is getting worse, I’m too hot or too cold. Before I’d get up to pee once and now it’s always twice.
The worst thing now is that I’m getting numbness in my hands and feet especially when I wake up and pain in the arches of my feet. Walking and grasping with my hand is uncomfortable and painful. A GP I saw two months offered me HRT in February but I wasn’t sure and didn’t pursue it. She was talking about oestrogen gel and a progesterone. Now I’m thinking I do need it.
Had another GP appointment today but the lady I spoke today wasn’t confident in prescribing and wouldn’t agree. Even thought she’d heard of Dr Louise Newson. My hands are going numb just writing this. She said she would write to the menopause clinic? No idea who and what that is and get back to me. I was really hoping I’d get a prescription today. Feeling like my quality of life is rapidly declining.
Sorry for the long post but looking back at things now I think I’ve been perimenopausal since my late 30s. My cycles have never been the same length, often 24 days, way too short I think. Sometimes going over 30 days. Periods have been getting heavier although they’ve been heavy from the start. My ovulation I’m sure hasn’t been good and my stress tolerance has been getting worse. Aches and pains even back then. Maybe my ovaries have now given up.
Any help or personal experience would be appreciated. Thanks.
Blood Results
24/02/2022
TSH 0.08 miu/L [0.35 - 4.78]
FT4 16.8 pmol/L [10.0 - 20.0]
FT3 3.7 pmol/L [3.5 - 6.5]
FSH 91.8 iu/L
LH 70.8 iu/L
Testosterone 0.6 nmol/L [0.3 - 1.2]
SHBG > 180.0 nmol/L [17.7 - 138.3]
Prolactin 182 miu/L [59.0 - 619.0]
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Serendipitious
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I’ve found Louise Newsons book and Balance App very useful for information on peri menopause and menopause. It’s very much personal choice regarding HRT, but I would recommend trying to find a more supportive GP of nurse practitioner .
Have you tested key vitamins ferritin, folate, vit D and B12? When my B vitamins were low, I had increased pins and needles and body aches.
Are you taking HRT? Are you getting on okay with it?
My B Vitamins are usually high in range for some reason. I don’t even supplement them. I did read somewhere that they can appear high in blood but that’s not necessarily a representation of their levels in our cells.
Would you recommend supplementing them? If so which one? I’m so desperate right now.
I can post my last results tomorrow morning if needed.
I wouldn’t supplement with a B Complex unless you have first checked levels with a blood test. When my levels of folate and B12 were low in the range. I raised these successfully using Thorne Basic B. I stopped this supplement for a period when my B12 went over range. I keep an eye on my levels of ferritin, folate, Vit D and B12 by testing twice a year and adjusting supplements as needed to optimise.
I do take combination HRT and have found this to alleviate many of the peri menopause symptoms I have experienced.
I would definitely post your most recent thyroid/ vitamin blood tests, with ranges in brackets, so members can best advise.
These were taken via Medichecks, like I said before, my B12 and Folate have always been high in range, or even higher, but I dont think it reflects whats happening at the cellular level:
12 Feb 2022
Folate 19 ug/L (>2.9)
B12 >256 pmol/L 25.1 - 165
Ferritin 68 ug/L (13-150)
My latest thyroid results are above.
Are you still having periods? Dont think GP has tested B12 and Folate for some time now.
I personally wouldn’t supplement with a B complex with over range B12. SeasideSusie has recommended a separate Methyl folate to me before when my B12 was over range, so I will copy her in to advise.
I feel better taking HRT, but know it’s very much personal choice.
hi SerendipitousI really feel for you. Your history reads just like mine!
My periods were always much shorter than 28 days and around 43-44 years of age got heavy and then stopped.
I went on HRT and was blissfully happy for around 6 months. Then I started feeling worse again. Gaining weight, brain fog, achy, feeling sick, dizzy etc.
Blood tests revealed that my natural hormones had kicked in again and I was supplementing with HRT, so my levels were now so high that my body thought I was pregnant! I was so unwell and felt terrible.
The NHS consultant I was under was so clueless and surprised by this, she thought I was a medical miracle (“I have never seen a woman come back from menopause” she said) and wanted to write an article about me in the BMJ…
I stopped HRT but still felt not good for years. I didn’t stop digging into what could be wrong with me (if it wasn’t menopause), until I finally came across this forum and with the help of a consultant (recommended from TUK) got a diagnosis of Central hypothyroidism. Which means my pituitary gland is playing havoc. At times not regulating my oestrogen, then my cortisol and DHEA and now my Thyroid.
Currently I am on NDT and that seems to be making a difference, but then I am recovering from COVID so it’s difficult to tell.
Sorry this is a really long reply, but you might want to consider looking into to other options that menopause? In my experience you have to tell the Doctors what you think is wrong and they can confirm it and prescribe what you need.
I’m so grateful that you took the time to read my post and reply to me.
I’m going to write properly soon. However, I do have issues with my TSH being very low. As I was on Metavive for some years it went close to 0. Having switched back to Levo in the last 6 months it has barely risen. Maybe that’s what you mean by central hypothyroidism?
I’ll post results in a bit. Thank you so much again for sharing your experience.
Central hypothyroidism is low or normal TSH and low T4 & T3. GPs have never heard of it and refuse to treat you. And even some Endos haven’t got a clue. Best wishes
I heard about natural hormones kicking in after some time in Dr Newson's podcast. Louise said its quite possible as it takes the load off the ovaries if the brain isn't constantly telling them to ovulate. Definitely in your experience that was not a good thing!
Last year I was consulting a private endo that lives quite far from London via telephone. He's an independant consultant. He asked my GP to do a series of FSH, LH and oestradiol tests. All values were very high including oestradiol. He also wanted me to check my pituitary function and recommended the GP refer me to the local endocrine dept. He also wanted me to have an MRI of the pituitary and a synacthen test. The GP said the MRI of the pituitary wasnt possible. I could do it privately but I thought since I didnt have private medical at the time I left it.
That NHS endo appointment took 6 months to materialise! The NHS endo wanted me to repeat my thyroid tests but I went a month or two after the phone appointment and the endo cancelled the tests. I had to take time off and I thought it would take me forever to have the tests there. Felt really bad about it but what can you do. I think he must have been annoyed. Anyway in that time my periods came back, albeit just for 2-3 months and I forgot about it until now. Once again I am experiencing awful symptoms, I always find its particularly worse 3 months or so after they stop. I've been referred again but who knows how long it'll take.
So what did your consultant do about your central hypothyroidism? Really keen to know how they diagnosed and treated. Although not sure they can do anything?
My last results, take 100mcg Levo since October 2021, previously on Metavive
Thanks for your input, I've been trying to do that for a while as per a new above post but not gotten anywhere.
It looks like you already know you have a thyroid issue, since you were on metavive and currently on levo. I would check out the thyroid area of this site and get advice on that as well.
As for the hormone issue, I would check out Dr. John R. Lee’s books on hormones and menopause. You can get them on Amazon. He also has a website johnleemd.com. Actually, you can get his books from the website, too, apparently.
And another doctor to check out is Dr. Karen Leggert at womensmidlifespecialist.com. Her site is jam packed, but you have to dig. Scroll to the bottom of the page where the small print is and click “library” for lots of articles and videos.
And she sells bio-identical hormone creams on her site, but they are expensive. Dr. Lee has a list of progesterone creams that he recommends. They can be gotten cheaper at amazon.
I am on NDT, and years ago, my doc kept raising me because I wasn’t quite in range and still had some wiggle room, as she put it. Then I started progesterone myself, and after about a week of the progesterone, I was going for a walk and my heart was pounding much more than it should for the effort. I discovered that progesterone helps the thyroid hormone get into the cells where it’s needed. I was able to lower my dose of NDT and feel great. That was when I was in perimenopause. Now I’m in menopause, and I still take progesterone.
So, I would recommend looking into this yourself and treating with bio-identical hormones on your own before going to the doctor. You can even order your own hormone tests. Although as I type this, I don’t know if you’re in the UK, and if these things are available to you, like OTC bio-identical hormones.
I actually read Dr John Lee's books some years ago. He was very liberal about the use of hormones. I actually bought some progesterone cream last year and tried it but got scared about how much I was absorbing/dosing. Also in the last year I was diagnosed with endometriosis. I'm sure progesterone could help with that too and now that I remember they wanted to give me a synthetic progesterone which I wasn't happy about. Maybe I can ask them for body identical or utrogestan. This whole topic is a minefield.
Thanks the website looks good and interesting. I will definitely have a read later. I have been self studying hormones for some time now and I'm under a lot of stress which doesn't help with the production of female hormones, I know that.
I feel hesitant about using creams etc from the internet due to dosing fears. My pulse and energy levels are very low, especially since switching to 100mcg of Levo. This used to be ok for me a long time ago. Metavive which I took previously boosted by FT3 levels but it drove my TSH too low.
I'm also aware that progesterone aids thyroid function. Interesting how you're only taking progesterone even after menopause. Did you not want to take HRT, in other words both?
First, I would like reiterate my suggestion to go to the thyroid board on this site. It’s perfectly OK for your TSH to be suppressed. Docs don’t know that and freak out, but it’s OK. So, go to the thyroid boards and ask about that with those people, who are super knowledgeable.
I don’t think Dr. Lee was too liberal. In the sense that he said that progesterone was good for a lot of things, yes. But he was conservative in its use. He recommends physiologic doses, the amount your body would make anyway (if it were making it). And he says to use the lowest effective dose.
I did NOT want HRT, no. Re-read Dr. Lee’s books. He will tell you what’s wrong with conventional HRT. He also mentions that with menopause, estrogen only decreases by 40-60%. Your body still makes estrogen, just not enough to continue to have periods. And if you have any body fat, you’re making enough. So, he says that most women do NOT need estrogen, but after menopause, you’re making next to no progesterone, so that’s why that is recommended.
So, yeah, re-read Dr. Lee’s books, and check out Dr. Karen’s site. She does offer some creams with estrogen in them, if you need it.
I appreciate the suggestion however, I just wanted to add that I've been on the Thyroid UK forum since 2016. My point about a very low TSH is different.
Taking exogenous thyroid hormone inhibits the natural feedback mechanism production for some people.
When you take exogenous T3, its quite possible for the TSH to plummet to near 0 because the body will recognize that there is already so much T3 in your system, that it has no need
to produce any on its own. This results in significantly lower absorption of iodine, via the sodium iodine symporter expression to pick up iodine from passing blood supply. Thus a
low TSH over a period of time results in reduced iodine absorption by the thyroid.
So the thyroid essentially goes to sleep for the duration of time you are “over
medicating”.
In some individuals, a very low TSH, can result in the disruption to the HPA-O- axis (hypothalamic, adrenal, ovarian axis).
TSH may not be the direct thyroid hormone. However, your hypothalamus still maintains an intricate communication mechanism that also interacts with other axes and is involved with thyroid hormone metabolism.
You can find this information in physiology text books and also here in this paper which discusses how thyroid hormones interact with TSH and the Sodium/Iodide Symporter (NIS):
Whilst I agree Dr John Lee has written some insightful books, they do date back to around 2006. Science is constantly evolving. Also, there have been plenty of instances where individuals have overdosed on progesterone with unwanted side effects. Too much of any hormone is never a good idea.
I personally know a few women who were very overdosed on progesterone and it wasn't pretty. Personally, I can't stand the stuff, but I love my estrogen. I had a hysterectomy in my early 40s, so thankfully I don't need progesterone. Balancing my estrogen and thyroid is hard enough, so I am glad there isn't a third hormone in the mix. If I have adequate estrogen and thyroid, I feel really good.
I am in the U.S. and like following Louise Newson. If you haven't heard of Menopause Taylor, you might be interested in her YouTube videos. She is a retired OBGYN. She is eccentric, but has a lot of great information.
Just goes to show how different everyone is! What issues are you having balancing your oestrogen with thyroid meds? I know they can oppose one another. If you don't mind me asking why did you have a hysterectomy?
What benefits did you feel after stating oestrogen therapy? What side effects did you experience from progesterone?
I had the hysterectomy because I had extremely heavy bleeding for two week on and the two weeks off due to several large fibroids. They tried hormone therapy and then I had an ablation. The ablation only opened up the fibroids and then I was bleeding heavily non-stop. Right after surgery, I was put on 1 mg oral estradiol and did great for a while. Then my thyroid tanked and so was put on thyroid medication. I did well for another few years and then hit the wall badly. I had every menopausal symptoms, but the worse was anxiety. No doctor even thought to see if adjusting my estrogen or thyroid would help. They ran labs and pronounced me "in range". So, I tried a huge list of antidepressants and not one helped at all. Through a lot of trial and error, I have found I need a significant dose of estraidiol. I have tried progesterone in both cream and pills and it makes me very jittery. I was stupid enough to let my last doctor makes some changes, which included lowering estrogen and using progesterone. I am now digging myself back out of that whole, so there is no doubt that I need adequate amounts of estrogen. The jitters stopped fairly soon after resume my higher dose or estradiol, but my mood is still not the best. I may be fine on T4 only thyroid if my estrogen is high, but I haven't tried it yet. If I feel well, I would rather not chance it.
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