I have been on Thyroid-S for circa 4 months, and feel much worse than I did on Nature throid before this. My Bloods yesterday on 2.75 grains (reduced from 3 grains on 30/12/21) are:
TSH <0.02
Ft3: 6.3 (3.1-6.8)
Ft4: 14.6 (12-22)
To me they look where they should be on an NDT.
So rather than change dose I'm left with either buying more Thyroid-S, or paying a fortune for Armour. (I have just had to leave my job due to ill health so finances are key right now).
What are people's experience on Armour vs the Thai stuff please?
Note - I read a recent thread re different batches of Thyroid-S. I have checked my bottle and batch number, date etc are blank.
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ExhaustedLee
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It seems that Nature-Throid will be back on the market when the issues that led to its recall have been solved. Unfortunately, nobody seems to know when that might be. If you have been on Thyroid-S for four months and feel worse on it, maybe you are not absorbing it the same way you did Nature-Throid, or reacting to one of the fillers. As you say, your lab results look pretty much like you would expect when someone is optimally treated on NDT.
Why did you lower your dose from 3 to 2.75 mg?
Until NT is back, could you switch to a synthetic T3 and T4 combo? Many people do well on that.
Unfortunately, the other two Thai brands have been discontinued, leaving patients with few options.
Unfortunately, Armour is the most expensive brand of NDT. There is also Erfa which some patients do well on. It´s cheaper than Armour, but some find it less potent so you may need to take slightly more. I know Armour can be bought without a prescription, but I don´t think that applies to Erfa so you´d need a prescription.
Does a doctor prescribe NDT for you, or are you self-treating?
For T3/ndt to work well you must have good levels of cortisol and serum iron. It doesnt seem to make sense, blood tests look good but you either feel worse or at least no better, Ive found this in myself and reading of many others in this situation.
Insufficient serum iron ( not just ferritin) and or low cortisol can easily explain this situation.
Paul Robinsons explains this in his book Recovery with T3, Ive also seen it mentioned a lot on Stop the thyroid Madness.
Im afraid I cant get a link to work but it can be easily found. It seems to be very common.
It basically comes down to T3 receptors needing good levels or serum iron and cortisol.
I am in this exact same position, thought must be meds turns out both my serum iron and cortisol were too low for it too work. My cortisol is much better now.
Serum iron needs to be 50-75% through range for T3 .
Youve felt better before so you can get there again it could something as simple as your iron or cortisol or lower than they used to be.
But here the problems seem to have arisen when the OP switched from one brand of NDT to another, not when she went from levo to NDT which is often when low cortisol and iron cause problems. So she was already used to T3.
I wish I could show evidence to back up what Im saying but my phones on its way out .
By the time youve corrected any issues with folate, b12, vit d and ferritin and finally got to the point you know T3 is needed you think finally Im getting somewhere.
However what if T3 isnt as straight forward as you’d hoped for, youre either having a bad reaction or have got to a decent dose and blood tests look good but you feel dreadful.
Im in that position its soul destroying, you feel wretched and know there must be a reason so have to find the answer.
What I have found is exactly as I said T3 needs good levels of cortisol and serum iron.
Surely if its a given that any thyroid meds need optimal nutrients its quite logical that T3 needs its own optimal levels of key nutrients.
Ops blood test looks pretty good to me but as we know blood tests dont show whats happening inside the cell.
If the problem lies with Thyroid S would blood tests not show a low FT3.
Rather than blame the Thyroid S could it not simply be that since going from one ndt to another some nutrient deficiency has appeared.
A full iron panel and cortisol test will show any problems. Surely its worth that before considering different meds.
Although I cant provide evidence at the moment theres plenty of it out there.
A bad reaction to ndt/T3 or failing to respond with decent looking blood tests is usually down to low serum iron and or cortisol problems.
When I found this out I thought I was the only one, it turns out its pretty common.
If the OP had a cortisol/iron/nutritional deficiency, it is not likely that she would have felt good on Nature-Throid either as the T3 content is the same as in Thyroid-S. She could be reacting to fillers in Thyroid-S as Nature-Throid is hypoallergenic and contains few fillers.
Thank you. I explored all this sort of stuff when first diagnosed and my health was rock bottom. Tried b12 jabs, iron, vit d protocol but nothing helped.
You are right, I'm sure something is out of balance (other than thyroid and coeliac) as even at my best I don't feel particularly well, but I've never been able to find it sadly
I was going to suggest the same as AS14 above. In a recent post you mentioned 'Vit D and B12 were run fairly recently and were okay' but what about folate and ferritin?
I also think that FT3 remains quite high in spite of a dose reduction and you have changed NDT brands. What time were bloods drawn in relation to previous dose?
I use Armour but add T4 to it as find it too T3 potent.
Ive been on a ndt for years now. Over the years various ndts have had problems with their contents. Annoyingly Ive had to change several times not because one didnt suit me but because the product changed or their were problems with batches. Ive ended back on Armour where I started because of this. Armour didnt suit me after they changed their fillers (was that 2012?) so it was with trepidation I went back on it. It took me 6 months to adjust to it but Ive been fine on it.......maybe its because since I crashed and nurned after they changed the fillers Ive gone onto b12 jabs. My skin is a little drier than on previous ndt. I was on NP Acella, but they had problems with variable active ingredients and after being stable for years my thyroid levels were all over the shop. Ive been on Erfa but had a simular problem after they changed factories/countries. Ive never been on Thyroid S so cant comment on that.
I will say re thyroid hormone blood levels, for me to feel fine my ft4 & ft3 need to be near the top of both ranges. Its been like that for years. Am not sure where this idea that on ndt your ft4 will be lower......its certainly not ever been true for me. So dont go simply on the blood test results, go on how you feel. If there is scope in your ranges you could try an increase. If you feel it would push your ft3 over range then adding levothyroxine into the midst may help. Its also worth re checking b12, ferritin etc even though youve been fine for a long time.
On the nhs the only ndts on their formulary list is Armour & Erfa. The rest have been removed.
Thank you. I am toying with trying b12 jabs again. I could ask if I could add some levo in for the T4 as you're right, to me it seems a little low. Just I was quite unwell on levo. But saying that, it was years ago now and I'm not exactly feeling well now! So could be worth a try x
Personally if my T4 was that low, i would feel very unwell regardless of my T3 being towards the top of range. So I wonder if you need to increase your T4.
I’m in the same boat as you. Struggling to feel normal after NatureThroid. I’m now on Armour (it’s cheaper for ex military), and NP Thyroid. I tried the NP first when NT was pulled, but didn’t do well. I now think that I probably needed a higher dose. Anyway, I switched to Armour, but still have some muscle pain. So added some of my leftover NP when my doctor wouldn’t increase my Armour. I was on 165.2 mg NT, but am now on 180mg Armour and 60mg NP. NatureThroid was perfect and I didn’t need as much. I hope they bring it back soon.
Thanks for your replies everyone. I took the plunge and shelled out huge money for the Armour. 11 days in now and I feel even worse! I could actually cry.
Usually with a new batch I do feel terrible between days 3-6ish but then it settles. Granted this is a new brand entirely but I should have settled by now
I increased to 3 grains because they're a 3 grain pill and cutting it to 2.75 would be impossible.
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