Which liver supplements can interfere with NDT absorption?

[ak_83]

I am a 36 year old male with hypothyroid (Hashimoto's) and take 2.625 grains of NDT. However even though my blood tests seem good (have posted them here before) I'm not making improvements. I have taken a ZRT Labs test, which showed that I have problems with methylation and have too much estrogen.

I have started taking several supplements to improve methylation and to generally detoxify the liver. The idea is, I'm missing some co-factors produced by the liver and required by the cells to utilise T3.

The supplements are:

- SAMe Tosylate (stopped shortly after)

- Folate 400 - Metafolin L-5-MTHF

- Indole-3-Carbinol

- Calcium D-Glucorate

- Milk Thistle and dandallion

- Curcumin

I have tried these in about two sets. First, SAMe, Folate, and I3C. I noticed weird dizzy spells and suspected SAMe so I stopped the first group completely for 4 days and felt better. Then I started on Calcium D-Glucorate, Milk Thistle and dandallion and Curcumin. With both sets, but especially with the second one, I felt a goiter coming on, which I haven't felt for years. I also felt those feeling when I first became hypo, low energy, skin is getting drier. Weirdly some other things are a little better. Body hair is growing more and I'm stronger at the gym. I do get tired faster though, especially with sprinting. I started to get dizzy again (as when I was on insufficient thyroid meds).

So it's a very mixed bag and I'm getting really confused. Lot's of doubt about what's happening. I feel like something is either blocking the conversion of T4 to T3 and/or cell utilisation of T3 is lower. Why else would I start getting a goiter? I suppose it could be a Hashimoto's attack. But there shouldn't be much thyroid gland as it's all replaced by oral NDT... I have requested a thyroid panel from my doctor, so I'll do a test to see for sure what's going on in a few days.

Should I stick it out and see what happens? Perhaps this is just a rough road to feeling better a little down the road so as the liver works better the body is experiencing adjustments? Or should I stop all these supplements? Then I go back to where I was, which is still that 60% feeling. The idea was to improve, not go back to the same miserable stable state.

Hence this question here. Which one or more of these supplements can definitely interfere with thyroid medication (NDT in my case)?

Follow up question is, I've been drinking decaf coffee for the last couple of months. Can the chemicals from decaf interfere with either T4 to T3 conversion by the liver/gut in a serious way? Perhaps I should just go back to drinking a (weak) coffee instead?

I would be very grateful if someone could clarify my confusion. Thank you in advance!

[jamesal0]

Hi 83

Maybe it's time to stop overthinking it. If you take NDT, inject B12, gluten free your body will do the rest. The biggest challenge is getting the NDT dose right, don't worry about blood tests they are for the doctors. Add or reduce 30mg/day for a week and see if you can feel the difference. once you work out which way to go, slowly over 3 months keep inching that way. Keep an eye on your midday temp you should be at least 36C. You need less NDT in summer and more in winter particularity if you live in a really cold country. At some point you will go hyper (if you are going up) heart pounds when lying in bed. You have gone too far then, back off a little and that is about right. If you were going down and started getting sore joints you are going the wrong way.

Enjoy

J

[ak_83 in reply to jamesal0]

Thank you. Unfortunately I'm one of the difficult patients, who the simple NDT with B12, iron, vit-D co-factors do not work (not for the lack of trying though!)

[HLAB35]

As a woman who has experienced Estrogen dominance with a daughter who's been through the same we researched to find out how to stop the symptoms we had had and have also read books on PMS and Menopause by Dr Glenville. I have no idea if this applies equally to men as you don't experience many hormonal fluctuations, but the key thing we have learned is to support the adrenals with Vitamin C, B5, Magnesium, Zinc and B6 (as p5p). Co enzyme Q10 is also very good at kick starting the metabolism. You may also find NAC is more effective than milk thistle for liver detox. Probably best to avoid coffee for now. If you are needing coffee to stay awake that would suggest you need more adrenal support.

[ak_83 in reply to HLAB35]

Thank you. I guess here specifically I was interested in whether any of these supplements could affect utilisation of thyroid hormone by body.

[HLAB35 in reply to ak_83]

Personally, I would avoid any Calcium supplements either near or not near taking Levo. Definitely not near though! Vitamin C is known to enhance absorption. Minerals impede it, so do tea and coffee.

[greygoose]

It's a very bad idea to start supplements in batches of four. You should start them separately, with at least a weeks gap before starting the next one. That way, you will know if something disagrees with you.

And, how far away from thyroid hormone were you taking them? Did you leave at least two hours? Although with calcium, you should leave four hours.

I feel like something is either blocking the conversion of T4 to T3

That shouldn't concern you too much, as you're taking NDT. You're getting T3 direct.

or cell utilisation of T3 is lower

You mean up-take by the cells? That is a possibility, but I don't know if any of them do that. You'd have to research it.

I suppose it could be a Hashimoto's attack. But there shouldn't be much thyroid gland as it's all replaced by oral NDT

Taking NDT doesn't replace the physical gland. The gland itself may not be producing much hormone because you're taking NDT, but that doesn't mean that the immune system won't attack it. And, if the immune system does attack your thyroid, it would presumably contain some hormone stocked in the cells, which would be dumped into your blood causing levels of FT4/3 to rise - it wouldn't make you more hypo.

So, all in all, a blood test is the best thing. It will show you if there is a rise in levels (autoimmune attack) or a drop in FT3 (reduced conversion) or no effect at all.

But, that's not to say that some of these supplements aren't badly affecting you in some other way. And to find that out, it would be best to try them individually and see what happens.

[ak_83 in reply to greygoose]

Great advice as always! Yes, I'll do the blood test tomorrow and see the results. I'll also ask my doc what she thinks about the supplements. It probably is a good idea to do one week at a time thing.

The problem is, as well as all those supplements, I have another two sets to try. It's more like a dozen in total. So I was trying to shorten the trial period by trialling them in batches related to the area they address. For example, after the liver I was going to attempt to improve the cellular atp levels taking CoQ10 etc.

Anyway, first thing is to see the blood tests and go from there.

[greygoose in reply to ak_83]

There are no short cuts in this journey, and attempting them just takes you right back to the beginning again to start all over.

Don't be surprised if you doctor has no idea about the supplements you're taking - she might even think they're all poison! - they just don't do nutrients or natural solutions in med school. They only learn about drugs.