In several US forums, I have read that patients with autoimmune thyroid disease should not take NDT, as it will only perpetuate autoimmune attack. The only thing we should take, if we don't do well on T4 drugs only, is a synthetic T4+T3 combination drug (called Euthyral or Novothyral depending on the country...each pills containing 100 mcg of T4 and 20 mcg of T3). I think there used to be a US equivalent called Thyolar that is no longer available...?
I'd love to hear from other Hashimoto's patients on various thyroid drugs...in your opinion, is it true that NDT will only make matters worse for us...?
Anna, some people think the similarity between pig thyroid and human thyroid increases Hashi attacks on patients using NDT. The majority of Hashi patients do well on NDT but there are some who have found it makes Hashi's worse and they do better on synthetic T4+T3.
I agree with endocrinologists who prefer separate T4+T3 medication to the combined meds. It's easier to tweak the individual T4+T3 doses to suit.
Hello anna69,
I have Hashi so researched NDT but am now stabile on T4 & T3 (separate meds) so haven't tried NDT.
I learnt many people with Hashi can take NDT as long as they have optimal iron and healthy cortisol levels as both these are required for good T3 uptake.
From what I understand the problems occur if your body won't accept the T3 quickly enough (receptor resistant) and you are unable to raise NDT dose. If left on a low dose, it can increase your level of antibodies encouraging further Hashi attacks. People then feel so ill they lose confidence and are afraid to increase NDT further. By increasing NDT dose quickly, it should help antibody levels to fall due to the immune function encouraged by the T3.
I understand it better to raise NDT by elimination of symptoms and not lab tests.
Improving gut health can also be a huge factor in improving Hashimotos as can supplementing with a natural anti inflammatory. I take theraputic doses of curcumin ( turmeric) and can feel the difference. Also supplementing Selenium and eating a gluten free diet. Dr P says people with a sensitivity to gluten generate an antibody by a process of molecular mimicry which cross reacts with the thyroperoxidase enzyme that makes thyroxine in the body, therefore causing huge thyroid interference.
However there are Hashi members on this forum who have felt extremely ill after medicating on NDT and claim to have lost many years of their lives. We are all different anna69 and only by trying it will you know your own bodies reaction.
Hi Flower007. I was really interested in what you said about anti- inflammatories and I have been trying to research natural ones. My chiro recommended omega 3, but I've also read about turmeric. How much do you need to take to get a therapeutic dose? Thanks
The supplement I have been taking for about 4 months now is called KappArest™ which contains a proprietary blend of curcuminoids (turmeric extract), Boswellia serrata extract, propolis, green tea extract, ginger extract, rosemary extract, celery seed extract, resveratrol, alpha-lipoic acid, Phytolens, and Piper nigrum.
If you suffer Hashimotos Disease (I do) be aware that the green tea could stimulate your antibody production. It all depends on whether you are Th1 dominant or TH2.
After taking the full dosage of this product for several weeks my bodies inflammation has calmed enormously to the point where aches and pains disappeared, gut issues felt more settled and brain fog improved.
This American link gives a full description but I actually buy it from Nutri.
The supplement is expensive and although would probably require a long term maintainence dose this would be much less than the initial large theraputic dose. It feels like a miracle pill to me.
May I ask your age? I ask because I am POST menopausal, with Hashi's, so because of that, wondering if KappArrest is as helpful after menopause. (I'm female, taking T3 liothyronine, using progesterone cream; follow gluten-free, sugar-free Hashi's diet strictly; take all recommended vitamins and minerals; avoid fluoridated water.)
According to a recent study, healthy cortisol is needed for good t4 uptake, and conversion of t4 to t3, but not so much for t3 uptake. If cortisol is low, t3 is more likely to help the thyroid. However, if you suffer adrenal fatigue, getting cortisol up to a healthy level is important for a number of other important reasons.
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Yes davetrindle2,
Cortisol is mega important in the conversion of thyroxine into active tri-iodothyronine under the action of the 5 -deiodinase enzymes but without sufficient cortisol the body can become toxic with unused and unusable T4.
With regard to T3, this has to be taken up by the receptors within the cell wall and without sufficient cortisol, the receptors become resistant and eventually dormant.
It is in this situation that the NDT that anna69 was asking about, should not be introduced in a Hashimoto sufferer as the timing required to keep antibodies in check is too quick for receptor recovery and T3 uptake and so T3 toxicity may occur.
Can you explain in what way "T3 is more likely to help the thyroid" please.
Flower007
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That's way over my head. I just joined and I don't really know much about NDT. But, regarding T3+T4, I should add that the it was reported that receptor resistance was a bigger problem for t4 than t3.
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Hello davetrindle2,
I don't take take NDT either, have just read about thyroid issues in order to be able to make an informed choice regarding treatment.
A recommendation is "Your Thyroid And How To Keep It Healthy" by Dr Barry Durrant Peatfield. I have also consulted with Dr Peatfield and this is my source of information.
I don't know about T4 receptor resistance specifically.
I only know that a patient might require more T4 hormone in order to function properly, than the body can handle and the surplus remains floating in the the blood circulation causing toxicity. Symptoms range from brain fog to palpatations and I suffered this myself before adding T3.
Do you think we refer to the same issue? Just different names?
Can you provide link or source of your info please.
Flower007
• in reply to
Maybe "it was reported that receptor resistance is a bigger problem in T4 than T3" because so many more people medicate on just T4 alone?
Hi flower, this is very interesting. I have had my free t3 tested privately which is 4.2 and my TSH 2 months ago was 2.52. I have an an endocrinologist appointment in a months time.as I feel like u do that I'm not converting well and nee d some t3 added. Whether I get what I want is another thing though we shall see. I'm on 125mg of Levi only.
I suppose it may be a possibility but personally I don't think it's that true. I've been on Synthroid (syn probably stand for synthetic) for six years and while some symptoms were improved I developed muscle issues (burning thighs, restless legs, perineural cysts on lower back, etc.) and still not totally resolved. I had to search and found a doctor to prescribe and did fairly well on NDT (Armour) for another six years but did not know that a TSH of 3 was not healthy and I guess doctors didn't realize that either until I collapsed one day in the heat. When I was led to this forum I became more enlightened. I switched to Erfa which I found as effective as Armour when Armour was in short supply. I later discovered how important free t3 levels are (I know in the UK it is hard to even get the test) but I could not achieve an optimal FT3 level so then decided to acquire my own T3 which I feel has brought me to a healthier state than previously. I've been posting videos by Dr. Clark and he does feel that you can have an autoimmune attack against your own T4 and T3.
That's wonderful - I do know some cannot get well on levo and it is a great pity that our doctors aren't enlightened and if the patient is still suffering why not trial alternatives, i.e. T3/T4, T3 only or NDT.
Whoa there, Redditch. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Synthroid is a good drug for many people; it is simply not a good drug for everyone. Studies show somewhere between 75-85% of those on Synthroid show "clinical" and "lab-indicated" improvement. When scientists ignore clinical signs and labs, and simply record the patients' "subjective" feeling, about half are very satisfied with Synthroid. That said, the corporations owning the Synthroid patent over the years are corrupt, and have waged a continuous war against any and all competitors, even generics,! As a result, most endocrinologists in the US have "drunk the cool aid." Example: When synthroid originally came out, the company was caught red-handed spreading rumors that natural alternatives were tainted. They were penalized, but that didn't stop them. Latest boondoggle: The Synthroid-funded American Thyroid Association (ATA) just published one of the largest studies ever (in terms of paper, anyway) demonstrating that Synthroid was the one and only "standard of care" in the US. Many US docs were already brainwashed before the study came out, so the only docs affected were those who are more independent and knowledgable about treatments. However, the corporation's funding of a report stating Synthroid is the "standard of care" places docs at risk relative to malpractice litigation (where the deciding point is normally the prevailing "standard of care.)" Also, these poor, brave docs are sometimes threatened by their state licensing boards. It's insane. Synthroid is a good product for about half the people with hypothyroid, but the executives are corrupt criminals who should be punished.............BTW after 2 years bed-ridden under treatment with continually increasing doses of Synthroid, I asked my doc for generic Cytomel (T3), and immediately responded to the combination Synthroid + T3. I say generic Cytomel, because, unfortunately, Cytomel itself contain Gluten, believe it or not. I don't know the drug names in UK, but you will want to check your drugs for fillers like Gluten and Corn Starch (in the GMO-USA, anyway). I got lucky and found a gluten/corn--free generic...
Can you send me the name of your gluten-corn-free generic T3? I am taking Cytomel, and have to fight extreme drowsiness for two or three hours after taking it, so I have been suspecting I might be reacting to fillers and binders in Cytomel. My email is ralph.dundas@yahoo.com. Thanks.
Internet forums are not the best place to get reliable information. Look up Thyroid UK on the internet. They are the best source of good advice in this country.
Doing well on NDT with Hashimotos here. Had initial buzzing and hot feeling in thyroid when started - so followed the advice to raise a little faster and it stopped.
Now on 3 grains Thyroid S and a half tablet of Tiromel - which seems to give me my sweet spot.
Now losing weight, active and actually living again
However I think my turning point was dealing with low stomach acid. I take Betain HCL with Pepsin at lunch and dinner and feel this has vastly increased my absorption of nutrients (inc. supplements) allowing my levels to be optimal finally - so the NDT can work as it should.
Well, contrary to eveyone else, NDT made me incredibly ill! And it was the NDT, nothing to do with adrenals (they were treated) or anything else, because I started getting well again when I switched to T3 only.
I Don't think sweeping statements of this kind are very helpful for anyone - and for once, I Don't beleive Big Pharma are involved - it's all just theory. We're all different, and the only way to know if something is right for you is to try it.
No, greygoose is NOT one in a million! That's the whole point. There are many people who do not do well on NDT. There are many who don't do well on T3 only. There are many that don't do well on Synthroid. The point is the treatment must be individualized. All these drug combinations have a role to play in getting people cured of hypothyroid.
OK, greygoose and I often joke with one another whenever we feel like it. But, remember that Armour Thyroid was used exclusively for probably fifty years or more and those statistics would be more valuable. And BTW I think gg is possibly one in ten million!!
Thank you, Héloïse d'Argenteuil. I chose to take that as a compliment. lol I like to be different.
I think you're both right, there aren't many people that Don't do well on NDT, I think, but we have to bear in mind that it is a possibility. Because we're all different! Et vive la différence! eh? lol
I believe that taking anything other than a tiny amount of turmeric for food coloring is not a good idea. Check it out as it has 185 potential liver toxins. So why risk doing some harm to your body when there are so many foods/herbs/spices etc that don't have anything like this high number of potential toxins? It simply cannot be worth it.
But we're not talking about the whole spice, we're talking about curcuma, which is contained in turmeric.
Turmeric is used in a lot of Indian dishes, and not just for the colour, but because they believe it is good for you. It is used a lot in Siddhar médicine for a lot of ailments.
I'm new to this site but I will tell you I've been taking turmeric everyday for the last year. My Thyroid antibodies were reduced from 541 last year to 385. My dr asked what I was during differently and I said I was taking turmeric. She said to keep taking it.
I take a teaspoon of the spice in unsweetened applesauce. I mix the turmeric, a little bit of cinnamon and a sprinkle of vanilla in about 3 tablespoons of applesauce, then I eat more apple sauce to "wash" it down. I have a friend who loves it in tea and her diabetic markers went from 115 to 94. I have gotten used to the taste and sprinkle it on eggs. It does add flavor to soups. Good luck!!!
Thanks I will try various combinations and aim to take about a teaspoon a day. If it works I will be able to stop taking inflammatory meds which would be good.
My friend had hashimoto's also and found that taking a supplement called RESERVE really helped as it has 186 mg of Resveratrol and everything is natural. She got it here: zblack7.jeunesseglobal.com (if you become a member, you can get it wholesale)
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NDT and T3 use given support by US workers
