Vitamins

I saw a post on here a few weeks back re boots vitamins at least I think it was here lol. I had just bought some boots own brand vitamins and had taken the B12 for 3 days when I read there was an ingredient in them that was bad. I can't remember the ingredient as I binned them straight away. My bowels started playing up and wondered if the b12 was the cause. I also bought boots Folic acid with vitamin D but haven't used them yet. Can anyone tell me if they are safe to use or should I buy a better quality one. The reason I want to take folic acid is last may I had awful diarrhea which lasted several weeks. Annual bloods for thyroid showed my TSH was 5.35 (0.27-4.2 mu/L) and surgery called to say GP was increasing my thyroxine from 125 mcg to 150. I requested to speak to him and told him that I thought it was the diarrhea that had caused the problem as even water was making me rush to the toilet, he disagreed with me. He did agree to full panel bloods due to other symptoms but refused to test D levels as he said we are all D deficient in this part of the world. It turned out I was anemic and was put on a course of folic acid and iron tablets for 4 months, ferritin was 14 at the time and after the course was 36 (13-150 ng/ml) I want to keep taking folic acid to maintain levels though I'm not sure 36 is good enough He said my B12 was fine at 194 (191-663) not sure I agree with him. Folate was 3.7 (3.9-26.8) I am convinced my symptoms are caused by defiecencies rather than thyroid. By december last year another gp called to say I was overmedicated so have been back on 125mcg's since which has worked for me well since 2002 until 1st symptoms in 2015. Joint pains to the point were I had to stop using the bath after being stuck in there a couple of times. Hair falling out psorisis blurred vision difficulty sleeping tingling in left hand extremely tired and as if that wasn't bad enough I had a second frozen shoulder to contend with. Note== I had graves back in 2002 had RAI and went under permanently and once they got my thyroxine levels right I was perfect for 13 years. Sorry for the long post but I just want to know if increasing vitamin levels would be the best thing to do. Currently taking D3 800 and seven seas fish oil with D3 and feeling well. I just want to keep it that way.

[nightingale-56]

hi Hidden as far as the blurred vision, tingling in left hand and difficulty sleeping are concerned, these sound as though they could be low B12 levels. Before you start supplementing though please ask your GP for an Active B12 blood test. Once supplementing blood levels may not be accurate. I also had/have Graves. My profile is on my page,please read it. Hope you get something sorted and feel better.

[Hidden in reply to nightingale-56]

Thank you, I will ask to be retested. And I will have a look at your page

[SeasideSusie Remembering]

annawan

Generally, high street and supermarket brands tend to contain inferior ingredients - often the least absorbable, cheapest and wrong form, and tend to use lots of unnecessary fillers that quality brands minimise.

I don't know if there is more than one B12 supplement that Boots sell but their B12 10ug contains cyanocobalamin and the recommended form is methylcobalamin, and 10ug is not going to help if your level is low. Also, sublingual lozenges are better than tablets that you swallow, they are absorbed through the membranes in the oral cavity so get straight into the blood stream whereas tablets have to be absorbed through the gut.

Cyanocobalamin has to be converted to the active forms of B12 methylcobalamin and adenosylcobalamin. If you want a decent B12 have a look at Cytoplan which is sublingual and contains both of the active forms

cytoplan.co.uk/vitamin-b12-...

Cytoplan frequently have 3 for 2 offers.

He said my B12 was fine at 194 (191-663) not sure I agree with him

I don't agree with him either, that has just scraped into range by 3 points. Check for signs of B12 deficiency here

b12deficiency.info/signs-an...

If you have any then list them to discuss with your GP and ask for testing for B12 deficiency/pernicious anaemia. Be aware that taking folic acid and B12 will skew results and mask signs of B12 deficiency, so if you do recognise any symptoms then don't supplement either until further testing has taken place. You may possibly need B12 injections and then folic acid is started after the injections.

It turned out I was anemic and was put on a course of folic acid and iron tablets for 4 months, ferritin was 14 at the time and after the course was 36 (13-150 ng/ml) I want to keep taking folic acid to maintain levels though I'm not sure 36 is good enough

To be prescribed folic acid you would be folate deficient (and your below range result result shows that you are) and the iron tablets would be to raise your ferritin level. The folic acid is not for raising your ferritin level.

It's said that for thyroid hormone to work properly (that's our own as well as replacement hormone) ferritin needs to be at least 70, preferably half way through range.

You can help raise your level by eating liver regularly, maximum 200g per week due to it's high Vit A content, also liver pate, black pudding, and including lots of iron rich foods in your diet

apjcn.nhri.org.tw/server/in...

I also bought boots Folic acid with vitamin D but haven't used them yet. Can anyone tell me if they are safe to use or should I buy a better quality one.

If you bought the Boots Folic Acid with Vit D then again the wrong form is used, methylfolate is the converted form and is recommended. Plus the amount of Vit D is only 10ug which is 400iu and that wouldn't raise the Vit D level of a sunburnt flea, it's barely a maintenance level for someone with a good level to start with. Before supplementing with Vit D it's essential to test to get your current level, then dose accordingly. Many doctors refuse to test Vit D but to say we're all deficient in this part of the world doesn't make it right, in fact it should alert all GPs to test people so that they can improve their levels.

You can test Vit D easily with a private fingerprick blood spot test with an NHS lab which offers this test to the general public for £29:

vitamindtest.org.uk/

Post results when you have them and I will point you in the direction of what dose the Vit D Council recommends to improve your current level to their recommended level.

What form of Vit D are you currently using? The best forms are oil based such as soft gels or sublingual liquid because D3 is fat soluble and need fat to be absorbed. There are also important cofactors needed when taking D3 as recommended by the Vit D Council -

vitamindcouncil.org/about-v...

D3 aids absorption of calcium from food and K2-MK7 directs the calcium to bones and teeth where it is needed and away from arteries and soft tissues where it can be deposited and cause problems such as hardening of the arteries, kidney stones, etc.

D3 and K2 are fat soluble so should be taken with the fattiest meal of the day, D3 four hours away from thyroid meds if taking tablets/capsules/softgels, no necessity if using an oral spray

Magnesium helps D3 to work. We need Magnesium so that the body utilises D3, it's required to convert Vit D into it's active form. So it's important we ensure we take magnesium when supplementing with D3.

Magnesium comes in different forms, check to see which would suit you best and as it's calming it's best taken in the evening, four hours away from thyroid meds if taking tablets/capsules, no necessity if using topical forms of magnesium.

naturalnews.com/046401_magn...

Check out the other cofactors too (some of which can be obtained from food).

For those people with Hashi's an oral spray or sublingual drops are recommended for best absorption.

For a complete thyroid picture, testing for TSH, FT4 and FT3 are necessary.

You are currently undermedicated with a TSH of 5.35 and you say that you've been told you were overmedicated in the past. Do you have results from that time? If your results are swinging and your thyroid dose is being changed then it's possible there may be some antibody activity and you should test Thyroid Peroxidase and Thyroglobulin antibodies. These would show if you have Hashimoto's and sometimes Hashi's can be present in tandem with Graves. The fact that your nutrient levels are dire are a classic sign of Hashi's.

It's possible to do these tests privately with one of our recommended labs if your GP can't do them all. It's unlikely he'll be able to get FT3 and Tg antibodies done, he may be able to do the rest. If you are considering a private test, hold back on the Vit D test as it may be cheaper to do it with a thyroid/vitamin bundle with one of the private labs.

[Hidden in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thank you for your response, it's a lot to take in. Yes it was the boots 10ug that I bought and the folic acid with D are the same brand so I won't be using them either. The vitamin D tablets I am taking are from Holland and Barratt, probably not much use either. My TSH level of 5.35 was from my annual test last july probably too soon after weeks of diarreah, which I think could have been food poisoning. I waited 5 weeks to see my GP to discuss TSH then another couple of weeks for bloods which showed I was anemic, I told him at the time that my dad had pernicious anemia but he never responded to that. After the course of iron and folic I was retested for thyroid only, my tsh then was 0.12 and t4 was 23. That was december and a different gp said she thought i was overmedicted, I thought I was too as I had been told to take 150mcg instead of 125mcg. I was retested 6 weeks later and tsh was 1, lab ticked it normal. They never checked t4 last time and have never checked t3. I think the last time I was checked properly was when I was under the care of Dr Toft 17 years ago. I will ask for another full panel including vit D and B12 but I doubt gp will comply as he will just look at tsh from last bloods. I did ask to see an endo but a gp said they won't see me just because I think I might have hashimoto's. I felt like giving her a shake. Looks like I will have to do private bloods

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Hidden]

My TSH level of 5.35 was from my annual test last july probably too soon after weeks of diarreah,

That could be the reason then, TSH can be elevated due to non-thyroidal illness.

I told him at the time that my dad had pernicious anemia but he never responded to that.

Considering that you mentioned that, and your dad had pernicious anaemia, I think it was rather negligent of your GP to ignore very low level.

It's often the case that endos wont see patients if their thyroid results are within range.

If I were you, I'd consider Medichecks Thyroid Check ULTRAVIT, it includes all the thyroid tests, including antibodies, and all the important vitamins. It includes Active B12 and that tells us what is available to be taken up by the cells so is more useful than Serum B12 which is the test you've had done.

medichecks.com/thyroid-func...

It's on special offer at the moment (£79). If it's at normal price when you order, use code THYROIDUK for 10% discount.

Unfortnately, H&B are about on a par with Boots for supplements. You can always ask on here for suggestions for good supplements.

[Hidden in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thank you Susie I will use medichecks as you advised. Should I stop VIT D and sevenseas fish oil before test and if so how long before the test. Think I will look for a new surgery too as all gp seems to want to do is put me on statins for raised cholesterol which I refused. Isn't interested in looking at why I have so many symptoms. Many Thanks for your advice

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Hidden]

The only supplements that need to be stopped before testing are

Iron - tablets or eating liver - nothing for one week before testing ferritin/iron

B Complex or Biotin (B7) - Medichecks (and some other labs) use biotin in their testing procedure. If taking Biotin in any form/supplement it needs to be left off lfor 7 days before any blood test as it can give false results.

As for Vit D, you just don't take it before the test on the day.

What's the fish oil that you take?

[Hidden in reply to SeasideSusie]

Sorry for the late response, unwell with some sort of virus. I am taking Seven Seas Timeless, with omega 3, cod liver oil and D vitamin.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Hidden]

OK, I was just wondering how much Vit A was in it, cod liver oil can have a high Vit A content but it's not listed so not a concern.

I hope you're over your virus soon and start to feel better