Aside from potential hypErthyroidism, are there any other possible repercussions from (mis)using T3?

[Abi-Abster]

Yesterday I was talking to a girlfriend who has hypothyroidism like me. She who told me that her doctor friend (not her actual doctor - just a buddy who was a medic) had warned her about taking T3 with or without T4, saying there could be negative as well as positive effects from taking T3 medication, and that hypErthyroidism wasn’t the only risk.

My friend and I had this conversation because I’ve been increasingly unwell these past couple of years, leading to a spell in hospital at the weekend.

I feel like my thyroid is fine, but that everything else has been crumbling: tingles, physical instability, my mobility overall, spine/ back of the neck pain etc. It’s as though while my thyroid has improved (ie: my chronic pain and energy levels have got better, I don’t feel so hypO) the rest of my health has deteriorated somewhat.

My friend got me thinking that maybe I’m missing something with my own health (especially as the doctors can’t for the life of them work out what’s wrong: MRI scans, bloods etc are all clear). I know what being hyperthyroid feels like, and that’s not me either right now nor over the past two years.

This morning I just had *all* my thyroid and folate, B12, etc blood tests at my GP surgery. They’ll come back next week when I’m away on holiday, so I will post the results here when I have them.

In the meantime, I was wondering if there was anything in what my friend’s doctor buddy said: whether longterm (mis)use of T3 could lead to other health issues? EDIT 1: This was not with regards bodybuilding and *actual* misuse of T3, but rather erroneous use.

This is a theoretical question which could pertain to anyone, not just me. So I thought it would be useful to have a discussion - not necessarily about hypErthyroidism - but about any other possible negative effects of T3. Especially since you lovely lot know much more about these things than me!

Cheers All,

Abi x

EDIT 2: I also forgot to mention above that the medic friend of a friend specifically mentioned *differentiating between the kind of hypothyroidism* in terms of treatment recommendation:

Primary, secondary and tertiary hypothyroidism.

So presumably they meant that T3 might not be advantageous for all three types of hypothyroidism, and that they should be treated differently with regards T3?

Any ideas?!

EDIT 3: I just found this, which may be the negative effects of T3 my friend’s medic friend was talking about, but it’s to do with overmedication rather than the correct use of T3:

“While adding T3 to your thyroid treatment can improve some of your symptoms, it should be noted that treating hypothyroidism with Armour thyroid or Nature throid alone in high doses can result in thyroid hormone overmedication. Armour thyroid contains more T3 than the body needs when prescribed in high doses. Symptoms of overmedication could include palpitations, anxiety, difficulty sleeping, sweating, weight loss, and even GI symptoms.

Long term effects of thyroid hormone (T3) overmedication could be more severe such as muscle damage, cardiovascular effects, and even decreased memory. If you are concerned about thyroid overmedication, you should have your TSH, free T3, and free T4 levels checked.”

From thyroidwellness.com/the-imp...

Personally, I have none of the symptoms in the first paragraph, but all of those in the second. Although my last results (posted previously on HU) didn’t show overmedication of T3 - and I haven’t changed my dose since then - it’ll be interesting to see how my bloods taken today read. Just in case my decrease in health could be related to overmedication of T3 (especially as I’ve just realised my last thyroid tests were almost exactly a year ago to the week!).

[Angel_of_the_North]

Misusing means using it to cut body fat for a body building competition, not taking it when you are hypo. T3 doesn't make you hyper (although you can become overmedicated if you take too much), although you can make yourself permanently hypo when you stop if you didn't need it in the first place (ie you were euthyroid). I'd like to see the studies that the "buddy" is referring to.

[Abi-Abster in reply to Angel_of_the_North]

Thanks for your response Angel_of_the_North and apologies for the language in my original post, above: to clarify, ‘mis/use’ was just an easy term for me to write, it wasn’t with regards to literal and obvious misuse - ie: bodybuilders abusing T3 - but was referring rather to longterm use of T3 with or without medical guidance, at levels which may not be optimum for the patient.

[Abi-Abster in reply to Abi-Abster]

I find it curious too, but it was the first time I’d heard something like that about T3, and it piqued my interest.

Surely just like any medication, the wrong doseage of T3 - too high, for example - at the wrong time could be counter-productive?

[Angel_of_the_North in reply to Abi-Abster]

Well, taking too much T3 or too much levo (or too little) will have an adverse affect. So will taking too much aspirin or paracetamol. But I think if you are checking bloods regularly and monitoring how you feel, you are probably better off than with many GPs (to judge by what we see on here).

[Abi-Abster in reply to Angel_of_the_North]

Amen to that (unfortunately)!

[Cooper27]

For someone who is hypo, I don't think there is such a thing as hyper: there's over-medicated and Hashimotos flares.

[HIFL]

This site has some articles about T3 side effects on other hormones, the brain, osteoporosis, and insulin resistance: tiredthyroid.com/category/t...

[Angel_of_the_North in reply to HIFL]

Of the things mentioned there, I have none. I get sex hormone tested regularly and my Testosterone is high normal while my oestrogen is low-mid normal. my fasting blood sugar is well in range although my HbA1c is 35 when I would prefer it to be 32, and I've been taking T3 for years

[Dadondadda]

Maybe but I don't really know. This is mostly speculation.

The absence of T4 could itself be a risk; it has a few end products besides t3 and I've read articles hypothesizing that the conversion itself has an important role independent of what's generated.

A few other things come to mind too. t4 has antioxidant function somehow and there's also something where t4 is required for riboflavin metabolism to FAD, which is a critical molecule.

I'm not sure t3 alone can be transported everywhere and it might not make it to areas that only local deiodination can reach.

but again, just speculation. Personally, I've always gotten a much better response from t4 than t3.

[Hidden]

I can only tell you about my own experience with T3 (NDT to be exact): I have gone off it and am now back on T4 only. The reason was that I developed quite a few symptoms which I only recently connected to drug-induced hyperthyroidism (overmedication): heat and exercise intolerance, hair loss, itching (body and scalp), dry skin, rapid heart beat and weight gain. I read on tiredthyroid.com that symptoms like weight gain and hair loss can be indicative of hyperthyroidism as well as hypothyroidism.

I may go back on NDT after a while if T4 only doesn't suit me, but I am beginning to think that the T3:T4 ratio in NDT is wrong for me so it's likely I'll stay on T4 and only add a little NDT to a slightly decreased dose of T4 if need be.

I have been feeling fine on NDT for a few years, and only recently developed symptoms of overmedication. It seems for some reason my body needs less T3 now than it did a few years ago, and also more T4. I cannot really explain it (there are as many explanations as thyroid blogs), but right now I feel better on T4 only.

The info on the subject is quite confusing IMHO. I know the thyroid gland secretes several hormones, but it's often said that ca 98% of it is T4 that is then converted to T3 peripherally (and I guess that some of that T3 is then converted to T2 which is then converted to T1). So some medical practitioners working with T3 only advocate adding very low doses of T3 (2-5 mcg) to T4.

Others, on the other hand, advocate NDT which has a fixed 80:20 ratio of T4 and T3, and only a few doctors working with NDT seem to add T4 to it to change that ratio.

If someone is not converting T4 to T3 properly, it makes sense to me to add T3 to the mix. However, some health professionals claim that many thyroid patients have impaired T4 to T3 conversion, especially those with Hashimoto's, and that they therefore need T3. Others claim that the T4 to T3 conversion is normal in hypothyroid people, including Hashi patients, which is why only T4 is needed.

So the information is often both conflicting and confusing. I guess in the end we all have to find out what works for us.

But, in my case, excess T3 had some unpleasant side effects. I have not had my thyroid hormone levels tested recently, but simply decided to go off NDT and back on T4 and see what happened. So far, I feel better, calmer, am no longer sweating and my heart rate has come down. The itching has all but stopped and I seem to be losing less hair.

I personally find T3 difficult to dose because it's fast acting and has a short half-life compared to T4. I know multi dosing is often recommended when on NDT/T3 but I did not notice much of a difference when I tried taking it twice a day instead of once.

I don't think T3 in itself is dangerous since it is after all a hormone produced by our own thyroids and bodies. But, in my own experience, it's easy to overdose and difficult to take in such a way that the effects of it are spread out evenly throughout the day.