Blood results, expertise advice appreciated please

[Cup-cake7]

Hi there

I'm still plodding!! although energy much better now for sure (done the adrenal support and gut healing and vitamins, although quite disappointed at these vitamin results and wondering why really? Disappointed at all results except folate

Any thoughts please on why D isn't up there, I use spray and 10000, iron I realise I can work on, folate has upped well, is B12 high enough?

Please can you refresh me how high up in the ranges is deemed ok for the vits?

Here they are,

TSH 4.36 Range 0.27 - 4.2

T3 4.44 Range 3.1 - 6.8

T4 13.4 Range 13.4 - 12 - 22.

T4 sadly much lower, was a healthy reading without meds so confused?

T3 no changes here Why i must feel pretty well rubbish a lot

Tsh a bit better but really, I've not moved on with these and the symptoms are still high anx mostly, brain fog and concentration are better in the main

No antibodies this time but sometimes I go up out of range the gf may me serving me well

I take metavive now, 3 a day, 1 or 2 Adrenavive, and the VITS above and selenium, zinc, b complex, fish oil, magnesium

Any thoughts please, I so want to experience a low tsh to see I feel it makes me less tinnitus and anxiety

What would you do? Is it time to take t3. I've not got the Gene as been tested

I've got t3 in stock never taken, the chemical one, although of course I'm taking a bit in the metavive

I want to scream as it's s l o w work in progress

Xxx

[Cup-cake7]

P.s.

My vitamins are

D. 89 Range 5 - 175

Iron72. Range 13 - 150

B12. 134. Range. 37.5 - 188

Folate 19.8. Range 3.89 - 20.58.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Cup-cake7]

D. 89 Range 5 - 175

- recommended is 100-125nmol/L. Are you taking 10,000iu D3 as well as the spray, if so in what form - more spray, softgel, tablet, capsule? If not in spray form are you taking it with the fattiest meal of the day? How much magnesium are you taking?

Iron72. Range 13 - 150

- If this is ferritin then it's OK, half way through range is recommended

B12. 134. Range. 37.5 - 188

- this is Active B12 and is good

Folate 19.8. Range 3.89 - 20.58.

- this is good, at least half way through range is recommended, high folate is OK if B12 is high

I don't think I'd be taking T3 at this stage, I'd want TSH lower and then see how things are (but remember I'm not medically qualified).

Which Metavive are you taking - the porcine (l and ll) or the bovine (lll and lV). I know they don't state how much hormone is in them because it's a glandular, but bovine thyroid has more T4 and less T3 than porcine thyroid.

By the way, low TSH doesn't necessarily mean your tinnitus will disappear. I have had suppressed TSH for many years and I have tinnitus.

[Cup-cake7 in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thankyou Seaside Susie!

I take d spray with k2 Do i need D3 or is the same

Magnesium is high strength and malic acid nutri one scoop 240mg x twice daily

So many mags aren't they, can you recommend, maybe not powder

Can I up the D spray for a while?

Metavive 1 porcine

[Cup-cake7 in reply to Cup-cake7]

Maybe I should go back to levo

After working on the other bits I got up to 75/100 levo

And my tsh came just under 4

I was silly here maybe but wanted Natural as Dr P thought for me and I've then swapped to metavive and my numbers have raised, also I should have looked at my t3 at that point before swapping so I messed up

So maybe I now go higher on metavive or swap back (yawn) as will take weeks to get back up to 100 levo

I've reached point I just need to feel ok any which way

I would say at this moment of time I felt better on levo or I should consider a brand ndt unsure which

[Cup-cake7 in reply to Cup-cake7]

I prefer natural

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Cup-cake7]

I take d spray with k2 Do i need D3 or is the same

What are you actually taking, you said

Any thoughts please on why D isn't up there, I use spray and 10000

so I thought you take the Vit D spray (which is D3) and 10,000iu D3 as well.

Magnesium is high strength

What's that? Most magnesium supplements are around 300-400mg suggested dose daily.

So many mags aren't they, can you recommend, maybe not powder

You have to choose what's right for your situation, different forms explained here

naturalnews.com/046401_magn...

I use magnesium citrate powder, I need it for help with bowels, and there are no added ingredients, just the magnesium citrate, nothing else.

Not everyone gets on with NDT, some of us do better with Levo and add T3 if necessary, this has been best for me, NDT did nothing for me.

If you felt better on Levo then maybe you should trial it again.

I prefer natural

The only part of NDT that is natural is the actual thyroid powder from pigs, the fillers are synthetic, they can't make tablets without them. Metavive only adds rice flour as a filler in their capsules so that is as natural as you can get, but 1 capsule of Metavive 1 is the approx equivalent of 1/4 grain NDT so your 3 capsules are roughly equivalent to 3/4 of a grain of NDT, not very much at all.

[Cup-cake7 in reply to SeasideSusie]

Sorry

I take vitamin d with k2 in a spray, it is 10,000. This is the only D I take

The magnesium is 240 x 2 a day in powder form with malic - I'm fine bowel wise and leaned to the calming side

Thankyou very much indeed

And for identifying the fillers etc,

Yes this puts levo in better light

As I'm on metavive now I may as well increase

May I ask then, do you know how often, is it the same six week rule?

Why I'm perplexed is my t4 has really reduced, SS?

Is is normal when on or any meds, and the tsh starts reducing down for the t4 to also reduce. (mine dropped to under 4 on levo)

Sometimes, this seems such a flare to ultimately get more t3 into body 🙃

Thanks. Yes, well I'll sleep on it but may as well up the metavive now I'm this far and it's not got ,many fillers

Plan b

To go back to levo again

Xxx🦋

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Cup-cake7]

Metavive is treated like an other NDT as far as I am aware.

I understand that when using NDT one protocol says to start with a small dose and wait a week to see if there are any adverse reactions and to let your body adjust to taking the T3 element in it. So you'd probably start with 1/4 grain (1 x metavive l) then after a week you'd increase by 1/2 a grain (2 x metavive 1) so that's what you're actually taking now.

Then you'd stay on that dose for 3 weeks then add another 1/2 grain and take 1 grain morning, 1/2 grain afternoon. Wait 3 weeks then add add another 1/2 grain (total 2 grains), taking 1 grain morning, 1 grain afternoon. Stay on 2 grains for 3 weeks.

If further increases are necessary then 1/4 grain at a time every 3-4 weeks. If you experience symptoms of overmedication you've missed your sweet spot so drop back to previous dose.

If you're going to stay on Metavive, remember that Metavive 1 is approximately equal to 1/4 grain and Metavive ll is approximately equal to 1/2 grain.

Don't make the mistake of thinking Metavive lll and lV are stronger versions of l and ll, they're not, lll and lV are bovine and bovine thyroid has a different ratio of T4:T3 than porcine thyroid, so stay with l and ll. [Again - Metavive is a glandular and they don't guarantee what hormone content there is, but just go with the approximate equivalents mentioned and you should be OK.]

Your FT4 may have reduced due to any T3 content in the Metavive. Taking synthetic T3 with Levo reduces FT4.

When on Levo, the TSH should reduce and FT4 should increase.

As for the Vit D spray, as yours is 10,000iu I wouldn't take more than this on a daily basis, that is quite a high dose, more or less equivalent to loading doses for Vit D deficiency.

[Cup-cake7 in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thanking you lots, really helpful

Thanks for the metavive info, good to talk!

Yes surprising the way the t4 plumeted, a few weeks ago whilst on levo it was virtually top of range but as said, it was a good 3/4 the way up naturally. (My gp was afraid of it going over the top, she doesn't know I've got metavive )

Maybe silly question, has anyone you know of had t4 deficiency, - below range? What happened here, I'm only just in range now

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Cup-cake7]

We do see some results on here where FT4 is below range, but I can't remember details.

As Metavive is a form of NDT then it's treated the same. Most people split the dose of NDT. As T3 peaks in the blood 2-4 hours after ingestion, some people need the "boost" a second dose a few hours later can give. I take Levo and T3 and take my T3 all in one dose with my Levo, I don't feel any different not splitting the dose. It's one of those things to experiment with.

[Cup-cake7 in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thankyou, Helpful to talk

May I ask what signs are overmedicated ones ?

I'm watching my basals, which are better than a year ago for sure and still well within ranges

[Cup-cake7 in reply to Cup-cake7]

....so lastly when can I safely recheck bloods to see if improvement - six weeks?

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Cup-cake7]

May I ask what signs are overmedicated ones ?

These may be similar to some of the signs of overactive thyroid

thyroiduk.org/tuk/about_the...

....so lastly when can I safely recheck bloods to see if improvement - six weeks?

It depends what you're going to do about your thyroid meds really. Are you sticking with Metavive or changing back to Levo? If you change back to Levo, retest 6 weeks later. If you stick with Metavive, you could follow the protocol mentioned above and wait until you get to 2 grains to retest. Or if you feel the need to retest before that, then retest.

[Cup-cake7 in reply to SeasideSusie]

I have some on the list now, feeling warm when others say they are cold, aching muscles, can be excitable,

all these though when tsh high (right from the start of 'hypo') Confusing 🙃

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Cup-cake7]

I have just had a very quick flick through a couple of your old posts. It appears that you had a positive result for thyroglobulin antibodies and were told it suggested Hashimoto's. With Hashi's you can have both hypo and hyper symptoms.

The results you posted at the beginning of this thread in no way indicate that you are overmedicated. I think you can you can possibly put these symptoms down to Hashi's.

[Cup-cake7 in reply to SeasideSusie]

Again

Thankyou for your trouble and ironing this out as know you cant swing hypo/hyper even though it feels this way

So strange i can only recollect these last years feeling so cold on just 4 occasions - Im usually warm or hot even when others are vety shocked im without coat in cold weather! I joke my thermostat is out of order!

Strange, but yes have gone by blood results even though have hyper symptoms

No antibodies this week and hot

I accept im ‘odd’ lol

Thanks for your patience

[Cup-cake7 in reply to Cup-cake7]

....but is it because antibodies are being dumped into blood

- have i got this right for hashi swing

[Cup-cake7 in reply to Cup-cake7]

...,a logical thought may be that as gf reduces the antibodies, there is some correlation here that they may ‘dump’ instead of escalating?? This may explain hashi flare regular symptoms

My over range antibodies have been minimal Seaside Susie

So has begged the question why the ‘in range’ antibodies are ok to have?

In other words Who says having 80 or so more, is/isnt hashimotto diagnosis - ?

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Cup-cake7]

Antibodies don't get dumped in the blood.

With Hashi's, the immune system attacks the thyroid, the dying cells dump a load of thyroid hormone into the blood and this can cause TSH to become suppressed and Free T4 and Free T3 to be very high or over range. These are called 'Hashi's flares' or 'swings'. It can cause symptoms of being overmedicated (hyper type symptoms) to go along with these results that look as though you are overmedicated. The hyper swings are temporary, and eventually things go back to normal. Test results settle back down and hypo symptoms may return.

[Cup-cake7 in reply to SeasideSusie]

Iv never had t3 remotely upwards so dont feel this can apply although my symptoms can be hashi

[Cup-cake7 in reply to Cup-cake7]

....i just dont seem to convert SS

[Cup-cake7 in reply to Cup-cake7]

...is vitilligj kack of t3 in skin would you know?

[Cup-cake7 in reply to Cup-cake7]

‘Lack’

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Cup-cake7]

No idea, sorry.

[Cup-cake7 in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thankyou for your time again

[Cup-cake7 in reply to SeasideSusie]

Ps

Would you know if it's beneficial to split metavive doses